Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Nalz

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You know it's getting bad when things evil Kagawa says actually start to make sense

lol that made me smile on a crappy day

FutureGuy

MagicMarker wrote: »

You're absolutely fùckin deluded if you think we were ever going to win at 4-0 down. It's about damage limitation at that point. Yes, try and score, but the main aim is to not to concede.

I heard the same sh!te spouted at HT in the CS a few years ago.

I'd rather lose by more and have a chance to get a goals and maybe a 10% chance of getting back in it.

United fans wanting to limit damage. What fcuking next. :rolleyes:

PhlegmyMoses

titan18 wrote: »

Tbf, Clev going on, whilst weird it was the only change, pushed Fellaini further forward to battle the City defence. Far too late and a rather negative tactic, but understandable considering what Kompany was doing to Rooney.

I don't think he'd have made a difference to the result, although probably would have had a better performance but turning down Ozil looks like it was a bad decision.

But we have two similar players to Ozil in Rooney and Kagawa. One isn't playing and the other was our best player today. Moyes needs to really change things and start attacking.

collie0708

J. Marston wrote: »

What good would they have done at 4-0 down? I'm glad every player had to suffer the 90 minutes except Young, who'll I'll say nothing about to avoid a ban.

Moyes should at least have tried something different, there is no difference between losing 5-0 and 4-1. It was like we had no fight in us and from the minute the third goal went in we gave up

edgecutter

We need to make big changes in that team and once again we need money to be spent in CM. Fellaini does not look like the answer(far too slow) and isn't creative enough.

Team selection again today is baffling. Why play Young? He never finishes a game or is consistent enough.

Ever year we make Toure and Kompany look world class.

Liam O

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

No,the players are not there and, haven't been for a number of years .
Utd have been regularly outclassed away from home against big teams ,they cant try to compete in footballing terms so they have to resort to defensive tactics like we witnessed today .Hardly a shot on goal in the first half.Awful stuff.

As I said before the season started Ferguson worked a miracle last season winning the league with a poor team and Utd will do well to finish 2nd this season.
Man City and Chelsea wont implode this season and hand Utd the league .

Poor yeah? GTFO!

Team pushed Real Madrid all the way. Have the deepest squad in the league bar maybe City and it didn't cost a billion to assemble. If Nani and Kagawa started over Valencia and Young and maybe Hernandez over Welbeck it wouldn't have been close to 4-1. United were handed the league last season? How many points did they get again? How many games were lost or drawn in the 2nd half of the season? United must be the best poor team of all time. Been poor for years apparently :pac:

titan18

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

But we have two similar players to Ozil in Rooney and Kagawa. One isn't playing and the other was our best player today. Moyes needs to really change things and start attacking.

He'd be a much better option than Valencia and Young though tbf. A good winger would be better, but turning down Ozil and to play those two is annoying.

FutureGuy

It's like playing junior soccer in there. Blow it up ref, were not going to come back now.

Christ, talking about Moyes being negative.

Of course it's almost impossible to come back from 4-0 down. No one is saying otherwise, but to just lay down and hoping we don't concede more is a disgrace in my book.

Elro

Right well I'm sure there's going to be plenty of over reaction to this match but here's my overall take on it.

Firstly Man City were amazing that's the best they've played in a long time and Kompany was absolutely immense.

As for United they were poor and there were a lot of negatives in the match and these are just a few that I felt really cost us the match.
- Moyes got the team selection and tactics wrong.
- All four goals could have been prevented (Valencia was at fault for the first two, Fellaini for the third and Evra for the fourth).
- The failure to change anything until it was too late.
- The wingers, both were anonymous and while Val improved towards the end neither should have been on the field at the start of the second half.

There were some positives too though
- The Cleverly substitution, yes it was too late but it did make United far more solid and they looked much more threatening afterwards. Some of this may also be down to City easing off.
- Yes we lost but we are only 3 points behind City and Chelsea having come through our toughest run of fixtures for the season.
- We now have incontestable proof that Howard Webb does not favour United because he was terrible today. (half joking btw)

Irish94

Cleverley did very well when he came on, kept the ball and strung a few passes together. Had a bit of heart and desire, unlike a few of the players today. Give him a break.

PhlegmyMoses

titan18 wrote: »

He'd be a much better option than Valencia and Young though tbf. A good winger would be better, but turning down Ozil and to play those two is annoying.

No doubt but that means that we're giving up on Kagawa, which doesn't seem to make sense given that he hasn't really had a meaningful run in the team. If we are saying we'd sell Kagawa and get Ozil, then yeah, Ozil makes snese. he's an incredible footballer. But at the time, I thought that we had enough in his positions in Rooney and Kagawa.

nullzero

Positive response required. Getting Ashley Young as far away from the first team as possible would be a good start.

Hank Scorpio

Valencia and Young wouldn't get a game for alot of the top sides so why are they starting for United in huge games like this. Still think those transfers were baffling by Ferguson, serious lack of quality on the wings. As old as Giggs is he could still teach Young a lesson on how to play left wing and that isn't a good thing. Valencia has his defensive qualities to be fair though

Liam O

Irish94 wrote: »

Cleverley did very well when he came on, kept the ball and strung a few passes together. Had a bit of heart and desire, unlike a few of the players today. Give him a break.

It's not the fact that he came on, it's that he came on instead of top class attacking talent and was the first and only one to come on. When the team were floundering at the the point that they should have been strongest and raring to go.

Kylo Ren

People saying Fellaini isn't good enough are spoofers. He's looked good in two games and bad in one. By slating him for one game is the same as saying he's absolutely world class after his first two appearances.

nullzero

We're capable of coming back from this. This season will have a lot of twists I'm sure. Moyes just needs to heed the warning signs. City deserved their win and we were awful. No need to make it a habit

MisterAnarchy

Liam O wrote: »

Poor yeah? GTFO!

Team pushed Real Madrid all the way. Have the deepest squad in the league bar maybe City and it didn't cost a billion to assemble. If Nani and Kagawa started over Valencia and Young and maybe Hernandez over Welbeck it wouldn't have been close to 4-1. United were handed the league last season? How many points did they get again? How many games were lost or drawn in the 2nd half of the season? United must be the best poor team of all time. Been poor for years apparently :pac:

They played well against a Madrid team where Mourinho had lost the dressing room and a team that were walloped 4-1 in Dortmund .
Utd played on the break in the real tie,they werent able to dominate possession .

I agree Nani and Kagawa would be a huge improvement over Valencia and Young .
Young was a waste of £18m,he is a one trick pony, kind of like Valencia really.

Man City fell to pieces last season due to Mancini losing control and Chelsea were in turmoil.
Utd won probably the poorest league in premiership history,the standard of play was very low,it was no coincidence no Engliah team made the last 8 of the Champions league.

Dicky Pride

Why are we always awful against our big rivals though? This is what annoys me. We made Liverpool look like spain a few weeks ago and we all know that no matter how good this city team looked today, they'll go out and lose to a bottom half team next week.

There is belief lacking in this squad. It's the first time I can remember a man utd team that doesn't look like a solid unit.

What really frustrates me though...Ashley young is not good enough to be a man Utd player. Himself and Valencia wouldn't make the reserves of the man city team and here moyes is relying on them on one of the biggest games of the season.

And I don't care what all the wellbeck lovers say, he still hasn't proved that he is a good finisher. Useless again today.

Rooney the only positive and id say he's one angry man tonight.

dahat

God that hurt lads..

Rooney was a big postive,3 in midfield helped,Young is just a mess surely he is done now with Moyes.
I feared the worst very early on when Wellz fell over on the 18yard line early on,just felt today was going to be a bad one.

Liam O

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

They played well against a Madrid team where Mourinho had lost the dressing room and a team that were walloped 4-1 in Dortmund .
Utd played on the break in the real tie,they werent able to dominate possession .

I agree Nani and Kagawa would be a huge improvement over Valencia and Young .
Young was a waste of £18m,he is a one trick pony, kind of like Valencia really.

Man City fell to pieces last season due to Mancini losing control and Chelsea were in turmoil.
Utd won probably the poorest league in premiership history,the standard of play was very low,it was no coincidence no Engliah team made the last 8 of the Champions league.

Arsenal got knocked out to the eventual winners, City were in a group with the eventual runners up and semi finalists, United got knocked out to the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world who still nearly beat dortmund after losing 4-1. Using such a small sample is silly. United got a points total that would be well enough to win the league most seasons including this one I'd say. The squad has a case for being the 4th or 5th best in Europe. Have so far lost 2 and drawn one against top teams. City and Chelsea won't implode? You mean like losing to Cardiff and things like that. Today is hopefully a one off, worst performance under Moyes and I'll see what kind of manager he is by how he reacts to this. Though I wont be able to take many more of these baffling decisions.

Cantona's Collars

Keno wrote: »

People saying Fellaini isn't good enough are spoofers. He's looked good in two games and bad in one. By slating him for one game is the same as saying he's absolutely world class after his first two appearances.

Himself and Carrick playing in the same position today didn't help,at times they were nearly bumping into each other.When he pushed a bit further forward things improved.

Are there 2 Wellbeck's? The one that looks brilliant for England and the useless one for United.Shocking display by him today.

Hank Scorpio

Wellbeck was played in by Rooney in the first few minutes and fell over the ball, Hernandez would have buried it and it might have been a different game. I'm hungover and cranky but Wellbeck Valencia Young wouldn't have made the bench for strong United teams in the past. It's all good having a strong squad but the relative strenght of our first 11 compared to what else is available is a huge gap. Things will turn around and get better, City were amazing today, technically much better, faster, stronger.

Here's Moyes Interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=554oiVncgFw

J. Marston

dahat wrote: »

God that hurt lads..

Rooney was a big postive,3 in midfield helped,Young is just a mess surely he is done now with Moyes.
I feared the worst very early on when Wellz fell over on the 18yard line early on,just felt today was going to be a bad one.

You mean City taking their foot off the gas helped. They could've slaughtered us if they wanted to. 3 man midfield or not.

I'm dreading the Liverpool game. Stage is set for more embarrassment, no doubt led by Suarez.

MisterAnarchy

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Why are we always awful against our big rivals though? This is what annoys me. We made Liverpool look like spain a few weeks ago and we all know that no matter how good this city team looked today, they'll go out and lose to a bottom half team next week.

Alot of it is to do with attitude ,especially in the away games against Chelsea,Man City and Liverpool.

Its as if Utd are setting their stall out for a draw and think that if they engage in an open game against these teams they will be outplayed.
It would be nice for a change if they actually went out with a positive attitude at these grounds and saw how they got on instead of the shackled crap they produce.

Rayne Wooney

There's going to be a lot of pressure now on the Liverpool game, Suarez is back for them, we need a win really Moyes can't afford to lose.

Also people make it sound like Welbeck is some kind of phenom for England.

He's got 8 goals in 18 games and 4 of those are against San Marino and Moldova, teams who are forever getting hidings, the latter have apparently only won 1 game in the history of their national team.

Terrible result and performance no doubt, but quite a few of you seem to be going a bit fúcking mental and OTT. Didn't think the plasticity would rear its head this early in the season. Sad day all around.

Nalz

stankratz wrote: »

Terrible result and performance no doubt, but quite a few of you seem to be going a bit fúcking mental and OTT. Didn't think the plasticity would rear its head this early in the season. Sad day all around.

Oh wait for it mate...there's more of that to come in here over next 2-3 days

scudzilla

FutureGuy wrote: »

I heard the same sh!te spouted at HT in the CS a few years ago.

I'd rather lose by more and have a chance to get a goals and maybe a 10% chance of getting back in it.

United fans wanting to limit damage. What fcuking next. :rolleyes:

Exactly, remember spurs some time back, 3-0 down, did we go for damage limitation? Did we fcuk, we're united, we won 5-3

Danye

I haven't read through the thread but I need to vent....

I'm being completely honest when I say I never wanted Moyes to get the job. I don't know what he's ever done to even be considered for such a big job? In anyway when he was given the job I said I'd get behind him and support him.

But looking at what he's done since he's came in as manager confirms my opinion. He's not up to the task of managing such a big, prestigious club that's expected to not only challenge but win the big prizes.


His tactics are Stone Age. His team selection is awful.

How he had Wellbeck, Young, Valencia and Cleverly in the squad let alone on the pitch is beyond me. His tactics are Stone Age stuff. I really really hope I'm wrong and he comes good and goes on to be a successful manager for the club but as it stands I really can't see it.

Today was the first time in my lifetime we went into a big game and I was expecting us to get beaten.

The_Kew_Tour

I honestly do not think we were that bad. City were clinical.

We respected them too much but everything they got seemed to go in.

We were far worse against Liverpool. Honestly thought Fellaini was not that bad. Actually tried to make things happen with Rooney.

At least we created chances. That was much better than Liverpool, but we just got few bad breaks.

No panic button yet.

Danye

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Alot of it is to do with attitude ,especially in the away games against Chelsea,Man City and Liverpool.

Its as if Utd are setting their stall out for a draw and think that if they engage in an open game against these teams they will be outplayed.
It would be nice for a change if they actually went out with a positive attitude at these grounds and saw how they got on instead of the shackled crap they produce.

The attitude stems from the manager.

The_Kew_Tour

Danye wrote: »

His tactics are Stone Age. His team selection is awful.

How he had Wellbeck, Young, Valencia and Cleverly in the squad let alone on the pitch is beyond me. His tactics are Stone Age stuff. I really really hope I'm wrong and he comes good and goes on to be a successful manager for the club but as it stands I really can't see it.

Today was the first time in my lifetime we went into a big game and I was expecting us to get beaten.

Who would you replace them with though?

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Who would you replace them with though?

Wellbeck - Hernandez, Young - Nani, Valencia for Kagawa.

Dicky Pride

And by the way, if you start calling man Utd fans...former season ticket holders, plastic fans cause they call it as they see it, then you deserve to be smacked.

Too often this forum turns into a rose tinted love in.

The_Kew_Tour

Danye wrote: »

Wellbeck - Hernandez, Young - Nani, Valencia for Kagawa.

Were they not on bench..I be honest I missed lineups while in the pub.

You have great point. I need to sober up:pac:

Hank Scorpio

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Were they not on bench..I be honest I missed lineups while in the pub.

You have great point. I need to sober up:pac:

They were on the bench, all 3. Only United sub was Cleverly for Young

The_Kew_Tour

Very bad day for Darren Fletcher

The_Kew_Tour

I remember being beaten by City 4-1 and 3-1 with far less teams than this when Fergie was in charge.

We have Chelsea, City and Liverpool(always up for it) out of the way.

Still early days.

Ok 2 defeats is not ideal, but it was a very tough start.

Gavlor

As an evertonian, I think utd fans will struggle with the lack of flexibility in moyes tactics. It's either a flat 4-5-1 or 4-4-2. The other major problem he has is substitutions. I honestly can't remember too many that he got right and in the main, he always waited till 75 mins to make a change. Stubborn man.

Forget about kawaga playing behind front man aswell, not moyes style hence lack of creative midfielder signed this summer.

NTMK

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I honestly do not think we were that bad. City were clinical.

We respected them too much but everything they got seemed to go in.

We were far worse against Liverpool. Honestly thought Fellaini was not that bad. Actually tried to make things happen with Rooney.

At least we created chances. That was much better than Liverpool, but we just got few bad breaks.

No panic button yet.

City were playing at their best today and were absolutely clinical. But we were very ****ing average.

Rooney had a good game but needed RVP to take some attention away from him
The one reason to chose val over nani/kags is his defensive ability and was caught napping for the first
young was garbage. Nani/Kags should have started in his place imo
De Gea did fine not much he could do for any goals
Welbeck didnt do anything but tbf he didnt have any supply to do something with. Chico wouldnt have done much better

Moyes got it wrong tactically Clev should have started and we should have played in the formation we ended with as even with fellaini City have still got a very strong midfield and can disrupt things

I expect nothing but wins from here on out and im never going to a city game again as i seem to ****ing curse them

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Were they not on bench..I be honest I missed lineups while in the pub.

You have great point. I need to sober up:pac:

They where on the bench but they should of been starting. Young, Valencia and Wellbeck are not good enough. Everybody can see that so how can Moyes not?

Sobering up is for quitters. Keep going!

2moreMinutes

Those criticising Moyes after a very tough start need to take a deep breath and relax. This is essentially SAF's team and although Moyes didn't do a whole lot to improve it this past summer, SAF did even less over the last few transfer windows.
I really do hope Moyes rebuilds this team over the next two windows as there's a few guys there at the moment who are nowhere near United standard, never mind top 6 standard as well as a few who are coming very near the end of their better days.

Pro. F

Valencia - Carrick - Fellaini - Young <-That was the problem today.

Valencia and Young have almost zero attacking threat and Carrick and Fellaini aren't a great pair for dominating possession. And to make it even worse Valencia and Fellaini were both directly at fault for goals.

Rooney played excellently. Welbeck did okay, not great but not terrible. And even considering how many goals we shipped the back five weren't actually that bad - it was more the pressure they were under when City were dominating the ball and the lack of tracking from some of the midfielders that caused the goals.

Cleverley did very well when he came on. I wonder did his haters notice that.

I am annoyed that Moyes didn't see fit to bring on Nani, Kagawa or Chicharito. Even though we were dominating for the last 20 minutes I still think he should have changed it a bit and brought on at least one of them.

He can fix a lot of the problems with the team by dropping Valencia and Young and playing Nani, Zaha and Kagawa more. That would give us a lot more attacking threat straight off. Will he do that? That's the biggest question now.

Danye wrote: »

His tactics are Stone Age.

That is completely untrue.

The_Kew_Tour

Danye wrote: »

They where on the bench but they should of been starting. Young, Valencia and Wellbeck are not good enough. Everybody can see that so how can Moyes not?

Sobering up is for quitters. Keep going!

I agree there I should get drunk and forget all my troubles ha.

I think the way we played would have suited Kagawa today too.

I am just so used to seeing the same players at this stage I forget we actually have 2-3 better players on the bench.:o

gosplan

Some United fans took exception to me in the match thread for saying that Moyes' task was an impossible one

Actually it was only one who said it was stupid.

Just wondering what people here think?

Before any appointment was made, I said that the next manager would fail. Maybe Jose's personality would have swung it but my feeling was that it didn't matter who it was. Ultimately the greatest manager in the history of the world was walking out the door and after that it didn't matter who walked in.

Yeah it might have worked but it would have needed an amazing manager and a load of new players.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

Valencia - Carrick - Fellaini - Young <-That was the problem today.

Valencia and Young have almost zero attacking threat and Carrick and Fellaini aren't a great pair for dominating possession. And to make it even worse Valencia and Fellaini were both directly at fault for goals.

Rooney played excellently. Welbeck did okay, not great but not terrible. And even considering how many goals we shipped the back five weren't actually that bad - it was more the pressure they were under when City were dominating the ball and the lack of tracking from some of the midfielders that caused the goals.

Cleverley did very well when he came on. I wonder did his haters notice that.

I am annoyed that Moyes didn't see fit to bring on Nani, Kagawa or Chicharito. Even though we were dominating for the last 20 minutes I still think he should have changed it a bit and brought on at least one of them.

He can fix a lot of the problems with the team by dropping Valencia and Young and playing Nani, Zaha and Kagawa more. That would give us a lot more attacking threat straight off. Will he do that? That's the biggest question now.



That is completely untrue.

Unfortunately I'm not on my laptop to directly quote your post to debate some key points.

I'll debate the point your making about Moyes tactics not being Stone Age.

He has insisted on a traditional 4-4-2 in every game. This formation clearly isn't working and he's refused to change it.

The_Kew_Tour

Pro. F wrote: »

Valencia - Carrick - Fellaini - Young <-That was the problem today.

Valencia and Young have almost zero attacking threat and Carrick and Fellaini aren't a great pair for dominating possession. And to make it even worse Valencia and Fellaini were both directly at fault for goals.

Rooney played excellently. Welbeck did okay, not great but not terrible. And even considering how many goals we shipped the back five weren't actually that bad - it was more the pressure they were under when City were dominating the ball and the lack of tracking from some of the midfielders that caused the goals.

Cleverley did very well when he came on. I wonder did his haters notice that.

I am annoyed that Moyes didn't see fit to bring on Nani, Kagawa or Chicharito. Even though we were dominating for the last 20 minutes I still think he should have changed it a bit and brought on at least one of them.

He can fix a lot of the problems with the team by dropping Valencia and Young and playing Nani, Zaha and Kagawa more. That would give us a lot more attacking threat straight off. Will he do that? That's the biggest question now.



That is completely untrue.

I agree with this.

Now I dont hate Cleverly more bit skeptical of him at minute but he played well alright.

I do think we have to give Moyes time. People seem to think we were unreal under Fergie the last couple of seasons or something.

I actually think Moyes has brought some positives. The question for me is will he show faith in players he has or might give chance to.

PhlegmyMoses

gosplan wrote: »

Some United fans took exception to me in the match thread for saying that Moyes' task was an impossible one

Actually it was only one who said it was stupid.

Just wondering what people here think?

Before any appointment was made, I said that the next manager would fail. Maybe Jose's personality would have swung it but my feeling was that it didn't matter who it was. Ultimately the greatest manager in the history of the world was walking out the door and after that it didn't matter who walked in.

Yeah it might have worked but it would have needed an amazing manager and a load of new players.

You said that the United management knew that it was a poisoned chalice so took a punt on Moyes, in order to make him a patsy for the transition not working. This is why people, including me, thought that it was a stupid post.

Even your post here is really lazy criticism that was always going to be trotted out by people willing for a United collapse. We're 5 games in, 3 of which were against Chelsea, Liverpool and City.

It's not an impossible task to replace Ferguson. A good manager will not crumble under the weight of expectation. If they do the right things, the Fergie comparisons will quickly die.

Moyes will have to quickly learn now who his best players are and start playing them. He's been conservative, which I kind of expected, and seems to not want to lose, which has obviously back fired. That squad has some absolute quality that are rotting on the bench and in the stands.

SirDelboy18

Getting very sick of Moyes embarrassing persistence with the fixture list complaints.

gosplan

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You said that the United management knew that it was a poisoned chalice so took a punt on Moyes, in order to make him a patsy for the transition not working. This is why people, including me, thought that it was a stupid post.

Even your post here is really lazy criticism that was always going to be trotted out by people willing for a United collapse. We're 5 games in, 3 of which were against Chelsea, Liverpool and City.

It's not an impossible task to replace Ferguson. A good manager will not crumble under the weight of expectation. If they do the right things, the Fergie comparisons will quickly die.

Moyes will have to quickly learn now who his best players are and start playing them. He's been conservative, which I kind of expected, and seems to not want to lose, which has obviously back fired. That squad has some absolute quality that are rotting on the bench and in the stands.

Nope I said it was a smart punt to take.

If it's probably not going to work out, then go for the potential dynasty builder.

The problem with replacing Fergie is how much he got out of players like Valencia, Welbeck or Fletcher.

RVP, Rooney and Vidic will look after themselves but it's the level Fergie got the more mediocre(not an insult, just defining them as not top level) players in the squad that made Utd do successful.

They will not play for Moyes or anyone else the way they played for Fergie and formations don't come into it.

It's an awesome transition to have to make and it's going to take time. Moyes will have come and gone and Utd will need about 6 quality new players before they challenge again.