Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

SirDelboy18

As for today - the problems were obvious.

The team was set up wrong, the conservative approach that was taken backfired. He has set up relatively similarly in the 3 big games thus far. We have 1 point from a possible 9.

I cannot understand the persistence with out of form players. People said last month that Kagawa wasn't match fit. They said wait till September. Well it's the 22nd of September and Kagawa still hasn't played a part in the PL. Neither has Zaha. Hernandez has has a few minutes - the unwillingness to change is something that reminds me quite a lot with Trapattoni, the lack of ability or willingness to respond to events as they happen in game - the stubborn refusal to pick our best players. If these players aren't match fit, why not give them the minutes at the end of this one. Baffling.

Neither of our selected wingers has looked like a footballer in months. Why are they persisted with?

Fellaini was dreadful. Directly at fault for 2 goals and Cleverley looked like a significant upgrade when he came on. Early days, but when you have been in the PL for so long, been in these games before, one would expect that you would perform better.

It's early days but Moyes has had 5 PL games and 1 Champions League game and the team has looked impressive in two of the games. The Liverpool/Chelsea/City games were all remarkable similar in terms of our tactically prohibitive set up, poor team selections, poor substutions/lack of subs/timing of subs.

One of the most disheartening displays in my entire lifetime supporting United. That hurt, and I'm not convinced Moyes can fix it.

KH25

Looking at the game with a clearer head I still think Valencia and Young were shameful today. Hardly anyone played well to be fair but they were desperate. Valencia has been awful for more than a year now and he does not deserve a place in the team. How Fergie, and now Moyes continue to pick him when he was cack baffles me. He is quite simply not good enough.

Young is not a United player.

What has happened to Kagawa and Chicho? Hernandez deserves much better treatment than this. He is a superior goalscorer to Welbeck. Maybe today was not the game to start him in, but he could have started against Palace, or even Leverkusen. Kagawa too deserves more than this. He is a far superior player to Young and Valencia (different positions, I know), yet he is benched? I would absolutely hate to see it, yet I would completely understand if both of them asked to leave this summer.

Nani must be raging about that new deal he signed too.

Blatter

Danye wrote: »

Unfortunately I'm not on my laptop to directly quote your post to debate some key points.

I'll debate the point your making about Moyes tactics not being Stone Age.

He has insisted on a traditional 4-4-2 in every game. This formation clearly isn't working and he's refused to change it.

People really need to get a better understanding on formations.

Moyes did not today and generally has not played 4-4-2. Rooney and Welbeck rotated the no. 10 role.

City played Aguero and Negredo, do you think they played with a Stone Age formation? As said already, the problem today was Young, Valencia, Carrick and Fellaini all having poor games along with a very good City team playing excellently and being ridiculously clinical. Moyes has to change the wide players for the next game.

Anyway the big picture is that after a very tough start, United are only 3 points behind their main title challengers (City and Chelsea). I know a lot of people will like to ignore that and knee jerk though!

PhlegmyMoses

gosplan wrote: »

Nope I said it was a smart punt to take.

If it's probably not going to work out, then go for the potential dynasty builder.

The problem with replacing Fergie is how much he got out of players like Valencia, Welbeck or Fletcher.

RVP, Rooney and Vidic will look after themselves but it's the level Fergie got the more mediocre(not an insult, just defining them as not top level) players in the squad that made Utd do successful.

They will not play for Moyes or anyone else the way they played for Fergie and formations don't come into it.

It's an awesome transition to have to make and it's going to take time. Moyes will have come and gone and Utd will need about 6 quality new players before they challenge again.

Last season, Ferguson got 2 goals out of Welbeck and he got nothing but drilled crosses and backwards passes from Valencia for two years.

There is also no way that the United board would have thought that this was an impossible task. We're talking about highly functioning businessmen who probably believe that every decision they make is gold. Moyes was obviously recommended by Ferguson as having the requisite mental fortitude to take over and be his own man. That would have lent a lot of weight to the decision making process.

gosplan

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Last season, Ferguson got 2 goals out of Welbeck and he got nothing but drilled crosses and backwards passes from Valencia for two years.

There is also no way that the United board would have thought that this was an impossible task. We're talking about highly functioning businessmen who probably believe that every decision they make is gold. Moyes was obviously recommended by Ferguson as having the requisite mental fortitude to take over and be his own man. That would have lent a lot of weight to the decision making process.

Granted. You probably could be right.

IMO he was fcuked from the start though. He's going to come out of this looking bad but the reality is that when Fergie walks out of a dressing room, it's not good to be the replacement who walks in and has to motivate HIS team.

Bar Fellaini, none of them came to Man Utd to be managed by Moyes, and that's a hell of a thing to overcome.

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Unfortunately I'm not on my laptop to directly quote your post to debate some key points.

I'll debate the point your making about Moyes tactics not being Stone Age.

He has insisted on a traditional 4-4-2 in every game. This formation clearly isn't working and he's refused to change it.

But that's not what he's done. He's not playing a traditional 442. One of the strikers (usually Rooney) is dropping off the centre forward the majority of the time and in doing that it is more like a 4411 which is extremely close to the much over-hyped 451 that everybody is so obsessed with just now.

And talking about 442 as traditional is to misunderstand how often it is still actually used these days. A lot of top teams - the majority I would say - defend in a 442 and the attacking formations that are around don't tend to be very exotic either.

If you are giving Moyes stick for using a 442 today then you should be giving the same to Pellegrini because the City shape was very similar. The difference was that they had much better players in midfield and that's why they looked so fluid when in possession.

At the moment there are no signs for me that Moyes' formation or tactics are any more traditional or old fashioned than a lot of the other managers at big teams out there. The problem is that he is playing the wrong players, and there might also be a problem in the players he bought and failed to buy.

rebeve

The most depressing part was when he put fellini up front for the hoof ball .

PhlegmyMoses

gosplan wrote: »

Granted. You probably could be right.

IMO he was fcuked from the start though. He's going to come out of this looking bad but the reality is that when Fergie walks out of a dressing room, it's not good to be the replacement who walks in and has to motivate HIS team.

Bar Fellaini, none of them came to Man Utd to be managed by Moyes, and that's a hell of a thing to overcome.

This is why I want him to get a few transfer windows before I worry about him. He'll have to be phasing out Rio, Evra and Carrick within the next year or two due to age. My worry is in the attacking sense. He doesn't seem to want to play some of our best.

PhlegmyMoses

rebeve wrote: »

The most depressing part was when he put fellini up front for the hoof ball .

This didn't really happen. He went slightly further forward in the midfield but we didn't hoof the ball. Passed it around a lot.

NTMK

gosplan wrote: »

Some United fans took exception to me in the match thread for saying that Moyes' task was an impossible one

Actually it was only one who said it was stupid.

Just wondering what people here think?

Before any appointment was made, I said that the next manager would fail. Maybe Jose's personality would have swung it but my feeling was that it didn't matter who it was. Ultimately the greatest manager in the history of the world was walking out the door and after that it didn't matter who walked in.

Yeah it might have worked but it would have needed an amazing manager and a load of new players.

The Poison Chalice theory is BS tbh

The board mostly care about one thing and one thing only, money. The Key to uniteds/barca/madrid/bayern financial success is Success on the field. its that simple if the board could get a manager that would win 5 CL in a row he would have be signed at almost any cost.

They would not risk the team finishing outside of the top 4.

Every manager would fail in comparison to Fergie and his legacy will always loom over the club.

Its just atm united fans are a bit insecure about the team as even though the teams were atrocious at times we could always fall back on fergie finding a way

If we win the next 5 and we should everything is back to normal. theres bound to be at least one season where we lost to city,liverpool and drawn with chelsea in recent times its just a bit much to take a month into the season

Red Crow

Today is a huge reason why you can't have a Michael Carrick in the side against the big sides. Any pressure and he's completely out of the game.

If Young and Valencia play next week then Moyes should just give up. It's clear that he needs to get Nani and Kagawa playing.

Also Ferdinand was poor with the ball today. He kept just kicking it back to City.

Mitch Connor

dont know what you are all moaning about - we posted record revenues and a massive profit the other day. who cares about what happens on the pitch, as long as we are bringing in sponsors Woodward and the Glazers are getting the important things done.

Mitch Connor

Eli Manning wrote: »

Today is a huge reason why you can't have a Michael Carrick in the side against the big sides. Any pressure and he's completely out of the game.

If Young and Valencia play next week then Moyes should just give up. It's clear that he needs to get Nani and Kagawa playing.

Also Ferdinand was poor with the ball today. He kept just kicking it back to City.

Yep - Anderson or Cleverley in the side ahead of him today and we'd have been much better. Yep.

Carrick is the least of our midfield problems.

Pro. F

rebeve wrote: »

The most depressing part was when he put fellini up front for the hoof ball .

Yeah that was shít. I also got really pissed off when Pellegrini got onto that stegosaurus and started flaking around the pitch. Webb didn't even do anything about it for like ten minutes ffs.

Mr.Micro

Eli Manning wrote: »

Today is a huge reason why you can't have a Michael Carrick in the side against the big sides. Any pressure and he's completely out of the game.

If Young and Valencia play next week then Moyes should just give up. It's clear that he needs to get Nani and Kagawa playing.

Also Ferdinand was poor with the ball today. He kept just kicking it back to City.

Young only knows how to dive. Moyes overly dependent upon Ferdinand and Vidic, as in the old guard, who can handle some of the lesser attackers, but not the great ones. He has a tough job, but at least it's only a 4-1 loss, not the 6-1 under Ferguson.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

Valencia - Carrick - Fellaini - Young <-That was the problem today.

Valencia and Young have almost zero attacking threat and Carrick and Fellaini aren't a great pair for dominating possession. And to make it even worse Valencia and Fellaini were both directly at fault for goals.

Rooney played excellently. Welbeck did okay, not great but not terrible. And even considering how many goals we shipped the back five weren't actually that bad - it was more the pressure they were under when City were dominating the ball and the lack of tracking from some of the midfielders that caused the goals.

Cleverley did very well when he came on. I wonder did his haters notice that.

I am annoyed that Moyes didn't see fit to bring on Nani, Kagawa or Chicharito. Even though we were dominating for the last 20 minutes I still think he should have changed it a bit and brought on at least one of them.

He can fix a lot of the problems with the team by dropping Valencia and Young and playing Nani, Zaha and Kagawa more. That would give us a lot more attacking threat straight off. Will he do that? That's the biggest question now.

I agree

Carrick and Fellaini will work very well as a duo if they are playing together to provide a base and cover for the better attacking players (Kagawa, Nani, Hernandez, Zaha, Rooney, RVP).

I think Hernendez or Welbeck occupying the centre backs with two from Kagawa/Nani/Zaha pushing forward make room for Rooney to play in.

I would like to see Carrick, Fellaini and Cleverley picked together again though, I thought they worked well. Carrick sitting deepest and allowing the other two to go forward more.

Today I thought United would be better off with a player breaking forward from midfield in the no 10 than asking the forwards/strikers to drop off the front into that role. As it played out Rooney or Welbeck dropping of the front invited City to play a higher line.

Picking the three above (No Valencia) would have allowed that with Clev or Fellaini getting forward or even allowing Young to come off his wing and get into that space in knowledge he would be covered defensively. Then you could task Rooney & Welbeck with trying to press the City defence back.

Neeson

Why is there such a hatred for Young?

He is a fast man and can get his feet twisting and stuff and is a good runner. Alex likes him. He must be quality.

Dicky Pride

Neeson wrote: »

Why is there such a hatred for Young?

He is a fast man and can get his feet twisting and stuff and is a good runner. Alex likes him. He must be quality.

Do you watch football?

Headshot

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Do you watch football?

your sarcasm detector must be broken

Danye

Blatter wrote: »

People really need to get a better understanding on formations.

Moyes did not today and generally has not played 4-4-2. Rooney and Welbeck rotated the no. 10 role.

City played Aguero and Negredo, do you think they played with a Stone Age formation? As said already, the problem today was Young, Valencia, Carrick and Fellaini all having poor games along with a very good City team playing excellently and being ridiculously clinical. Moyes has to change the wide players for the next game.

Anyway the big picture is that after a very tough start, United are only 3 points behind their main title challengers (City and Chelsea). I know a lot of people will like to ignore that and knee jerk though!

Why do people think the "number 10" role is some new mythical position? The number 10 role seems to be the new buzz word in football these days. In anyway United did play 442 today. It's just that one of the two forwards where dropping that bit deeper than the other looking for the ball and the other one would be spinning off making runs / playing on the centre halfs shoulder. This is what usually happens at all levels of football when you play two up top. It doesn't mean that the one dropping is now in the number 10 role? ðŸ˜

His insistence on playing two wide men who's only talent is to get by the right or left full is Stone Age. Throw in the fact that when they're up against good full backs they cant actually do that and yet he still persveres with every game also makes it Stone Age. It's so rigid and easy to play against. Why not play a diamond in the middle with Rooney and Hernandez up top, Kagawa behind the front 2 and have a go at city. His insistence on playing the same players who are playing poorly in the same formation every week makes it Stone Age. The formation and tactics should be set up to get the best and the most out of the best players in the squad.

scudzilla

Neeson wrote: »

Why is there such a hatred for Young?

He is a fast man and can get his feet twisting and stuff and is a good runner. Alex likes him. He must be quality.

So's my puppy

Headshot

scudzilla wrote: »

So's my puppy

Can your puppy play as a LW ?

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

But that's not what he's done. He's not playing a traditional 442. One of the strikers (usually Rooney) is dropping off the centre forward the majority of the time and in doing that it is more like a 4411 which is extremely close to the much over-hyped 451 that everybody is so obsessed with just now.

And talking about 442 as traditional is to misunderstand how often it is still actually used these days. A lot of top teams - the majority I would say - defend in a 442 and the attacking formations that are around don't tend to be very exotic either.

If you are giving Moyes stick for using a 442 today then you should be giving the same to Pellegrini because the City shape was very similar. The difference was that they had much better players in midfield and that's why they looked so fluid when in possession.

At the moment there are no signs for me that Moyes' formation or tactics are any more traditional or old fashioned than a lot of the other managers at big teams out there. The problem is that he is playing the wrong players, and there might also be a problem in the players he bought and failed to buy.

Yes, yes he is. 4 at the back, 4 across the middle. Two out and out wingers and two up top. It's a 442. It's not working, it's to predictable to play against. Doesn't get the best out of our best players. It's just not working and the fact that he hasn't changed the formation or even had flexibility with the formation is frustrating.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

But that's not what he's done. He's not playing a traditional 442. One of the strikers (usually Rooney) is dropping off the centre forward the majority of the time and in doing that it is more like a 4411 which is extremely close to the much over-hyped 451 that everybody is so obsessed with just now.

And talking about 442 as traditional is to misunderstand how often it is still actually used these days. A lot of top teams - the majority I would say - defend in a 442 and the attacking formations that are around don't tend to be very exotic either.

If you are giving Moyes stick for using a 442 today then you should be giving the same to Pellegrini because the City shape was very similar. The difference was that they had much better players in midfield and that's why they looked so fluid when in possession.

At the moment there are no signs for me that Moyes' formation or tactics are any more traditional or old fashioned than a lot of the other managers at big teams out there. The problem is that he is playing the wrong players, and there might also be a problem in the players he bought and failed to buy.

Yes, yes he is. 4 at the back, 4 across the middle. Two out and out wingers and two up top. It's a 442. It's not working, it's to predictable to play against. Doesn't get the best out of our best players. It's just not working and the fact that he hasn't changed the formation or even had flexibility with the formation is frustrating.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

But that's not what he's done. He's not playing a traditional 442. One of the strikers (usually Rooney) is dropping off the centre forward the majority of the time and in doing that it is more like a 4411 which is extremely close to the much over-hyped 451 that everybody is so obsessed with just now.

And talking about 442 as traditional is to misunderstand how often it is still actually used these days. A lot of top teams - the majority I would say - defend in a 442 and the attacking formations that are around don't tend to be very exotic either.

If you are giving Moyes stick for using a 442 today then you should be giving the same to Pellegrini because the City shape was very similar. The difference was that they had much better players in midfield and that's why they looked so fluid when in possession.

At the moment there are no signs for me that Moyes' formation or tactics are any more traditional or old fashioned than a lot of the other managers at big teams out there. The problem is that he is playing the wrong players, and there might also be a problem in the players he bought and failed to buy.

Yes, yes he is. 4 at the back, 4 across the middle. Two out and out wingers and two up top. It's a 442. It's not working, it's to predictable to play against. Doesn't get the best out of our best players. It's just not working and the fact that he hasn't changed the formation or even had flexibility with the formation is frustrating.

bucketybuck

Danye wrote: »

Why do people think the "number 10" role is some new mythical position? The number 10 role seems to be the new buzz word in football these days.

I often wonder where they thought Cantona played. Not that many of you actually seen him play.

Danye

bucketybuck wrote: »

I often wonder where they thought Cantona played. Not that many of you actually seen him play.

How do you mean?

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Why do people think the "number 10" role is some new mythical position? The number 10 role seems to be the new buzz word in football these days. In anyway United did play 442 today. It's just that one of the two forwards where dropping that bit deeper than the other looking for the ball and the other one would be spinning off making runs / playing on the centre halfs shoulder. This is what usually happens at all levels of football when you play two up top. It doesn't mean that the one dropping is now in the number 10 role? ðŸ˜

So do you think Pellegrini's tactics are stone age too?

And the term "number 10" has been used to describe the position we're talking about for years, it's not a new buzz word at all. Call it the attacking central midfielder if you want, or the central play maker. It's the same thing.

Danye wrote: »

His insistence on playing two wide men who's only talent is to get by the right or left full is Stone Age. Throw in the fact that when they're up against good full backs they cant actually do that and yet he still persveres with every game also makes it Stone Age. It's so rigid and easy to play against. Why not play a diamond in the middle with Rooney and Hernandez up top, Kagawa behind the front 2 and have a go at city. His insistence on playing the same players who are playing poorly in the same formation every week makes it Stone Age. The formation and tactics should be set up to get the best and the most out of the best players in the squad.

Playing the wrong wingers doesn't make Moyes' tactics old fashioned. Valencia and Young are in shít form by the standards of any era of football. They aren't old fashioned wide men, they are shít wide men. It's got nothing to do with out of date tactics and everything to do with Moyes just making a bad choice in picking his team.

Why not play a diamond midfield? Why not play a back three or a 424? There are loads of possible formations. Not picking the one you want doesn't make Moyes' tactics out of date.

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Yes, yes he is. 4 at the back, 4 across the middle. Two out and out wingers and two up top. It's a 442. It's not working, it's to predictable to play against. Doesn't get the best out of our best players. It's just not working and the fact that he hasn't changed the formation or even had flexibility with the formation is frustrating.

If you want to think of it as a 442 - and you certainly can, there are lots of ways to interoperate any team's formation - then you will realise that lots of good teams play with a 442 these days.

Oregano_State

FutureGuy wrote: »

I love Kompany. One of the greatest defenders I have ever seen.

he was pretty meh last season

Cantona's Collars

City had 5 shots on target today,pity that 4 of them went in.They were ruthless in how they took their chances.

Today's type of play by United isn't unique to this season,we've had this discussion several times before,especially last season.Compared to City's movement and speed of play we looked ponderous and almost static at times.This isn't Moyes fault,there just seems to be something in the way we play that lacks spark and verve.Now we just see glimpses of this whereas before it was the norm.

Blatter

Danye wrote: »

Why do people think the "number 10" role is some new mythical position? The number 10 role seems to be the new buzz word in football these days. In anyway United did play 442 today. It's just that one of the two forwards where dropping that bit deeper than the other looking for the ball and the other one would be spinning off making runs / playing on the centre halfs shoulder. This is what usually happens at all levels of football when you play two up top. It doesn't mean that the one dropping is now in the number 10 role? ðŸ˜

His insistence on playing two wide men who's only talent is to get by the right or left full is Stone Age. Throw in the fact that when they're up against good full backs they cant actually do that and yet he still persveres with every game also makes it Stone Age. It's so rigid and easy to play against. Why not play a diamond in the middle with Rooney and Hernandez up top, Kagawa behind the front 2 and have a go at city. His insistence on playing the same players who are playing poorly in the same formation every week makes it Stone Age. The formation and tactics should be set up to get the best and the most out of the best players in the squad.

You still haven't commented on whether you think Pellegrini's formation today was Stone Age too.

Maybe because it blows your theory out of the water?

Hank Scorpio

zerks wrote: »

Today's type of play by United isn't unique to this season,we've had this discussion several times before,especially last season.Compared to City's movement and speed of play we looked ponderous and almost static at times.This isn't Moyes fault,there just seems to be something in the way we play that lacks spark and verve.Now we just see glimpses of this whereas before it was the norm.

Maybe they just had technically much better players on the pitch than united did today? Uniteds strongest team would be a match for them for sure, hopefully Nani and Kagawa are integrated into the side, sooner the better.

Your Airbag

Moyes does not play 4-4-2. It 4-2-3-1 or a variation of 4-5-1 with Rooney dropping deep.

Welbeck, Valencia, Young and Clev were all players who played under Fergie and he too would often leave Nani and Kagawa out. Moyes has inherited this squad so if people are going to complain they are not top side material its a problem from the Fergie days.

All in all today we were defensively poor. Valencia, Rio and Fellaini all switched of and it cost of three goals. When you send them out over the white line there is not much as a manager you can do. Hopefully he will highlight the mistakes to them.

What Moyes could have done is take off Valencia. Although Clev did well when he came on I think Chico for Welbeck would have been better and why he didn't use the other two subs is anybody's guess.

Next up in the league is West Brom at home, followed by Sunderland away, Southampton and Stoke at home with Fulham away before we play Arsenal. I would expect 11 (maybe 13) points from those 5 games.

Cantona's Collars

nuxxx wrote: »

Maybe they just had technically much better players on the pitch than united did today? Uniteds strongest team would be a match for them for sure, hopefully Nani and Kagawa are integrated into the side, sooner the better.

Passing and movement are integral to Uniteds play,we saw little of it today and it's been like this in far too many games,relying on moments of brilliance will only garner so many results in a season and we were cruelly exposed today.

Was really hoping Nani would play today,Ashley Young's contribution to the game today was winning a free,that was it.

Danye

Blatter wrote: »

You still haven't commented on whether you think Pellegrini's formation today was Stone Age too.

Maybe because it blows your theory out of the water?

No Pellegrini's formation worked today but it was no where near as rigid as United's. At times Yaya was playing so far forward it was if they where playing a diamond with him being the tip of that diamond. City might have lined up as a 442 but throughout the game they where anything but with their fluidity, movement and interchanging of positions but that might of not been noticeable to people with an untrained eye

United played a rigid back 4 a rigid midfield four and two up top.

MisterAnarchy

zerks wrote: »

Ashley Young's contribution to the game today was winning a free,that was it.

[/IMG]

Some waste of space he is ,I always said he wasnt fit for Utd ,completely 1 dimensional player.
Surely Zaha would be better than him ,ffs even Bebe would probably be better.

Cantona's Collars

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Some waste of space he is ,I always said he wasnt fit for Utd ,completely 1 dimensional player.
Surely Zaha would be better than him ,ffs even Bebe would probably be better.

His last 22 appearances: 0 goals, 3 assists.Terrible.

bad2dabone

There's no way Young should be playing for a club like United. I think everyone can see that.

alchemist33

So the wife comes home from work at 9.30. Downton Abbey is on but she's missed half an hour.

"Sure you can watch it on ITV +1 at ten," I say.

"But you've already set it for Match of the Day at ten thirty."

"No, no, it's okay. You watch Downton Abbey and I'll miss the football. I love you."

Mars Bar

This guy is a United fan and so was his Dad who died before he could see his son get married. The lad married into a Man City supporting family and this is his speech

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

No Pellegrini's formation worked today but it was no where near as rigid as United's. At times Yaya was playing so far forward it was if they where playing a diamond with him being the tip of that diamond. City might have lined up as a 442 but throughout the game they where anything but with their fluidity, movement and interchanging of positions but that might of not been noticeable to people with an untrained eye

United played a rigid back 4 a rigid midfield four and two up top.

That fluidity was possible because City had the much better midfield players and were able to dominate the game. A midfield of Nasri, Fernandinho, Yaya and Navas is so much better than Valencia, Carrick, Fellaini and Young. When they were dominating the ball, of course they were able to get their midfielders forward and interchanging position.

What sort of positions was Yaya taking up when United were getting the better of the play in the last 30 minutes or so? Much deeper positions.

And compare that to the positions that Cleverley was taking up in that period. Even though he was playing as one of the central two he was involved much further up the pitch, with much more flexibility than Yaya. That was possible because United were monopolising the ball during that period.

Mitch Connor

bad2dabone wrote: »

There's no way Young should be playing for a club like United. I think everyone can see that.

Have no issue with him being at the club - same way I had no issue with Blomqvist at the club - Young should be a very good squad option for us.

That he is in the argument for the first team first choice winger spot is down the lack of top quality on the wings.

Nani is the only winger I would have clearly ahead of him to be honest. Valencia has done F all else in the last year. Giggs did more last saeason than any of our wingers, but i'd be prefering to see Young ahead of him right now.

Zaha could be a brilliat winger for us, but unknown at this point - another suffering for Moyes' cautiousness.

As I have said before - I'd have Nani on one wing with Kagawa and Rooney off RVP. After that I'm not arsed if it is Valencia or Young that comes into the side, both are going to do less than I'd like. Both are, at this point, little more than squad players in terms of quality.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Both are, at this point, little more than squad players in terms of quality.

And both are currently first choice, ahead of Nani and Kagawa who apparently need to run the Marathon des Sables before Moyes deems them fit enough to play regularly. :rolleyes:

aperture_nuig

Sorry if it's been asked already, but I don't suppose Moyes offered anything in the way of an apology after the match? Or at least admitted he made some mistakes?

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

And both are currently first choice, ahead of Nani and Kagawa who apparently need to run the Marathon des Sables before Moyes deems them fit enough to play regularly. :rolleyes:

indeed - I have a lot of issues with Moyes' to be honest. Tactics, player selections and attitude, none impressing me.

Mikeyt086

We are an absolute joke at defending corners this season. City's 2nd goal was the real killer today, before half time, and it was the softest ****ing goal, almost identical to the Liverpool goal. Add to that Leverkusen's weak 2nd goal and it's become a big problem.

Valencia today was totally oblivious to Kolarov's runs and left Smalling exposed a ridiculous amount of times. Ashley Young's time has to be coming to an end soon, it's absolutely insane how much playing time he is seeing in current form, especially considering the players he is being chosen over. It is also time to give Javier Hernandez a chance, I like Welbeck, but when we create as little as we seem to do, we need clinical finishers in the side.

So going forward I think it is absolutely imperitive that we increase playing time for Hernandez, Kagawa and Nani, decrease playing time for Young, Valencia and Welbeck, and maybe shake up the back 4, Rio is getting very casual back there, lets see Evans get a go.

The one thing we absolutely cannot do is continue on like today was just a bad day, it was a bloody wakeup call, and I would be very worried if it is not seen as such.

The title is not decided in September.

The_Kew_Tour

im so glad I stay away from United match threads.

dear lord

MagicIRL

I think that after patching the hole in midfield alongside Carrick, all we've done is shine a spotlight on just how bad our wingers are. This is the same team that had Ronaldo and Beckham playing on the wings. How Young/Valencia start ahead of Nani and Zaha is beyond me. Uniteds attack was no existent purely because the only real outlet was Rooney. With Young and Valencia on the wing, you should be given width but they're that bad at the final ball, they offer sweet fck all.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

That fluidity was possible because City had the much better midfield players and were able to dominate the game. A midfield of Nasri, Fernandinho, Yaya and Navas is so much better than Valencia, Carrick, Fellaini and Young. When they were dominating the ball, of course they were able to get their midfielders forward and interchanging position.

Exactly. City had the better midfield on the day. But why did Moyes, our manager, decide to play that way and why did he choose to play the midfield that he played???

Everybody knows a lot of what City do comes through Toure. What did he do to counter that? Why did he pick two average players to play out wide? Are you also agreeing with me now that City weren't a 442 in the traditional sense the way United where?

Pro. F wrote: »

What sort of positions was Yaya taking up when United were getting the better of the play in the last 30 minutes or so? Much deeper positions.

The match was well and truly over then. But of course he was tucking in. I'm not sure the point your making here actually?

Pro. F wrote: »

And compare that to the positions that Cleverley was taking up in that period. Even though he was playing as one of the central two he was involved much further up the pitch, with much more flexibility than Yaya. That was possible because United were monopolising the ball during that period.

City played with such intensity and they where bound to tire a little. They where happy enough to let United play in front of them passing it sidewards and backwards. Also at this stage United had nothing to loose at that stage. Maybe if the players where instructed to play that way when it's 0-0 and take the game to them things might have been different.

And the most crucial part, it didnt matter what positions Cleverly got into for the simple fact that he hasn't got the ability, craft or intelligence to make anything happen for the side.