Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Neeson

I suppose the result ruined poor Darren Fletcher's day out in Croke Park!

Timmyctc

Neeson wrote: »

I suppose the result ruined poor Darren Fletcher's day out in Croke Park!

Aye, he's probably fair peeved United lost too.

Danye

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

We are an absolute joke at defending corners this season. City's 2nd goal was the real killer today, before half time, and it was the softest ****ing goal, almost identical to the Liverpool goal. Add to that Leverkusen's weak 2nd goal and it's become a ......

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Rio is getting very casual back there

Good points. I think Rio has been very poor. I think he's always been susceptible to being bullied despite the hardmsn image Rio portrays. Brutal for the Liverpool goal, shocking again mid week for Bayer 2nd goal. Bottled another 50/50 today after missing a header and being out muscled.

When Jones gets back I'd like to see him get a run of games in beside Vidic.

F.J.

We were toothless agian today just like the Liverpool and Chelsea games.Only looked half way decent when City had taken their foot off the pedal.We have not scored a goal from open play in the league since the first game of the season which is worrying.

The fourth goal was the exact same as one of Leverkusen's the other night.Evra was pushed high up we lost the ball and Fellaini was left trying to cover a winger. That needs to be sorted or we will continue to concede stupid goals like that.

The tactic of getting the ball in the second half and playing it in behind Kolarov for Valencia was particularly frustrating as it didn't work at all.Yet it was persisted with.His dive was also pathetic.

Young should have been off at half time.Dunno how he was allowed out for the second half.

The routine for corners is sh*te too.Chip the ball to the near post and watch it get cleared again and again.

Was disappointed with Moyes.As others have said he left the three lads on the bench.He could have brought two of them on, see if they could spark something as well as getting them some badly needed game time

F.J.

Moyes needs to start rotating better.Ferdinand and Vidic have played 3 games in the last 8 days.Think that is asking a lot out of them especially Ferdinand who has spoken about the need to manage his body.

markc91

F.J. wrote: »

Moyes needs to start rotating better.Ferdinand and Vidic have played 3 games in the last 8 days.Think that is asking a lot out of them especially Ferdinand who has spoken about the need to manage his body.

Just on Rio they said earlier today that Rio has started the last 6 matches in a row! Hasn't done that in over 2 years

The_Kew_Tour

Moyes needs time people.

Its been extremely tough start. We can still make amends against City at OT.

its important now we push on from a easier run of games coming up, but lets not get too carried away.

Ferguson had bad starts too in easier games.

MagicMarker

It does seem that Moyes is afraid of dropping the old guard, there's no way Rio should have started today.

Irish94

MagicMarker wrote: »

It does seem that Moyes is afraid of dropping the old guard, there's no way Rio should have started today.

Moyes was right too start Rio today. Vidic and Rio are our best CB's and you play your best players against the best teams. He shouldn't have started against Palace last Saturday.

Irish94

At least one great thing to take out of the match today is that cúnt Joe Hart didn't keep a clean sheet.

markc91

And he seems to be leaving Giggs out too not in the squad today hasnt played since liverpool game

sReq | uTeK

FutureGuy wrote: »

I heard the same sh!te spouted at HT in the CS a few years ago.

I'd rather lose by more and have a chance to get a goals and maybe a 10% chance of getting back in it.

United fans wanting to limit damage. What fcuking next. :rolleyes:

Yea I mean it's not like we've ever lost a league on goal difference. Goals matter, an they matter more when you're just in the job 4 months compared to 25 years. Fergie losing 6-1 whilst embarrassing will never ever stain his legacy, moyes throwing caution to the wind at 4-0 and losing 6/7+ would be catastrophic to his start at united.

Wellbeck is in form, not today but he's been in form both for united and England since the start of the season, prior to Rooney coming back wellbeck was a constant outlet and source of goals, it's no surprise he started ahead of Chico who has played 45 minutes this season. Young for Kag is tricky, whilst I think KAgs Is a fantastic talent he's not made his mark on the team especially starting on the left , being up against zabaleta is the reason young started he offer that's little bit more in defence and is a natural wonder who doesn't cut inside and leave gaping gaps on the wing. It didn't go to plan but with the way he wanted to set up, not concede early and try and win it from the bench his selection made perfect sense. Again the same people calling for Valencia to not start are the people stating how good he was Tuesday. He was there to negate Kollerov no other reason, sadly he didn't do his job and from that early goal we am gave city all te confidence in the world.

We did okay some good stuff towards the end and that was a + to take away from it , Rooney was excellent, we do miss RVP up top.

I think moyes going for containment in these 3 early big games has failed. Perhaps he should sve thrown caution to the wind, but hindsight is a great thing and all the man is trying to to is obviously ease into the job, there is enough positives for me to stay hopeful but his philosophy needs to change and he needs to allow united to express themselves. On iPhone spelling and grammar might be ****

MagicMarker

Irish94 wrote: »

Moyes was right too start Rio today. Vidic and Rio are our best CB's and you play your best players against the best teams. He shouldn't have started against Palace last Saturday.

Well he did start against Palace, and again midweek, and seeing as we can't time travel just yet, Moyes was wrong and he shouldn't have started today.

RobertKK

We needed a Fabregas/Modric type player this summer to go along with Fellaini.

What is frustrating is who is being played and who is left on the bench or left out altogether.
United are limited in midfield, and we have wingers who just frustrate us.

A world class midfielder is needed, Kagawa needs to be played instead of a player like Young.
Januzaj, Zaha and Nani would offer more than our current wingers going forward.

Moyes needs to stop playing Young, was never a fan, wondered why he was bought the first day.
Moyes also needs to be more adventurous with formations and play our best players in the real big games, again Young does not qualify when one looks at who could have been picked.

F.J.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Moyes needs time people.

Its been extremely tough start. We can still make amends against City at OT.

its important now we push on from a easier run of games coming up, but lets not get too carried away.

Ferguson had bad starts too in easier games.

We all know it has been a tough start.We had bad starts under Fergie too which again no one is denying.07/08 being a good example.

It is the fact that we have looked absolutely toothless in 3 out of our first five games that is irritating me.If there had been a bit of bite in our performances I wouldn't be as irritated.

Paul Tergat

I think we had to start Rio and Vida - Evans still isnt 100%, smalling had to play RB and jones is out injured.

**** that result anyway. Lets get a run of good results going from now

Backstreet Moyes

If Janjuaz and Zaha were the wingers today i would have been more confident. Can't believe none were on the bench.

The_Kew_Tour

Nuts102 wrote: »

If Janjuaz and Zaha were the wingers today i would have been more confident. Can't believe none were on the bench.

I agree. little annoyed with this.

Backstreet Moyes

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I agree. little annoyed with this.

It's more than that Young and Valencia have shown they are not United standard. I can't believe Zaha has yet to get a minute on the field this season. I would rather play young talented players than players who are not up to it.

The_Kew_Tour

Nuts102 wrote: »

It's more than that Young and Valencia have shown they are not United standard. I can't believe Zaha has yet to get a minute on the field this season. I would rather play young talenuzajted players than players who are not up to it.

me too. why I was encouraged with last week when he showed some faith in younger talent.

RasTa

Very drunk, missed the game and went with Dublin.

It never happened

The_Kew_Tour

RasTa wrote: »

Very drunk, missed the game and went with Dublin.

It never happened

keep drinking

Backstreet Moyes

For anybody who excuses Valencias lack of ability because he defends well just have a look at today. At fault for two goals for not tracking back their would be some discussion here if it was Nani who done it.

RasTa

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

keep drinking

COME ON YOU BOYS IN BLUE

Oh wait.....

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Exactly. City had the better midfield on the day. But why did Moyes, our manager, decide to play that way and why did he choose to play the midfield that he played???

Everybody knows a lot of what City do comes through Toure. What did he do to counter that? Why did he pick two average players to play out wide? Are you also agreeing with me now that City weren't a 442 in the traditional sense the way United where?

No I am obviously not agreeing with you. Your idea that United were using some special type of formation and tactics that should be called "traditional" and that City were something different is completely wrong. The difference was the quality of the players in midfield, not the tactics. It's got nothing to do with Moyes having stone age tactics or anything like that.

Moyes didn't choose for the team to play on the back foot. The team ended up their because they came up against a much superior midfield. If you want to criticise Moyes for selecting poor players or for not making the right moves in the transfer market then go ahead, I could agree with a lot of that. But saying that his tactics and/or formation are out dated, or even significantly different from City's, is completely wrong.

What did he do to counter the fact that Toure is a big player for City? Oh I don't know, maybe worked endlessly on team shape and defensive organisation; maybe he worked on passing combinations to get the team in possession in good areas of the field and so tire Toure out defending. It's so old fashioned though, says you, like no managers use any of that shít any more.

Why did he pick two average players to play out wide? That I do not know, and I have given him plenty of criticism for it. But that is not a sign of old fashioned tactics. It's just poor player selection. You seem to think that modern tactics are picking the players that are good and out dated tactics are picking the players that aren't good. It's an imaginary dichotomy you have set up. No matter how old fashioned you want your tactics to be, Val and Young are still going to be shíte.

Danye wrote: »

The match was well and truly over then. But of course he was tucking in. I'm not sure the point your making here actually?

City played with such intensity and they where bound to tire a little. They where happy enough to let United play in front of them passing it sidewards and backwards. Also at this stage United had nothing to loose at that stage. Maybe if the players where instructed to play that way when it's 0-0 and take the game to them things might have been different.

The point I'm making is that when either team were defending, their shapes were very similar. That was the case because they were both using similar formations and tactics, neither of which were stone age. And when either team were attacking they were able to interchange positions and get forward. That was the case because that's how football works. It's not modern tactics to get further up the pitch and interchange positions when you have good possession, that pattern has been around for over sixty years.

Danye wrote: »

And the most crucial part, it didnt matter what positions Cleverly got into for the simple fact that he hasn't got the ability, craft or intelligence to make anything happen for the side.

How you can say that after the way Cleverley played today is just ridiculous.

Rayne Wooney

I actually thought before the game that Fellaini could handle Toure, how wrong was I

The_Kew_Tour

Are we being a bit harsh on Fellaini?

Liam O

Cleverly is a really good squad player, and very much needed with the lack of players in that position. Carrick and Fellaini need more clearly defined roles. A lot of the time they were getting in each other's way. I have a theory that this was because Young and Valencia were playing so deep that their wings (seemingly) didn't require cover but their ineptness at defending was the cause of most goals today. Fellaini is a really good player, him and Carrick just need that understanding and the right players in front of them.

Giggsy11

Young and Valencia are so bad on the ball, no wonder we struggle to keep possession in the first half when City pressed superbly. Combined with they don't show up for the ball when the CMs are under pressure or their lack of off the ball movement. Young is good at that but yesterday he didn't move at all.

Rio should be on the bench for few games and should be a back up option. He looks even slower and with 2 slow CBs we will always struggle against pace. Smalling or Evans should play with Vidic as first choice CBs.

And our tactics was so rigid it was like watching a midtable team. No off the ball movement, not even a single player bar Rooney had any confidence on the ball and didn't go for tackles at all. We looked out of game from the min 1 and never looked in it for the whole 90 mins.

At least now we have 5 good run of fixtures with 4 home games and 1 away game against Sunderland. There is no excuse now, we have to get results and should be in touching distance from the top. After losing points in all the hard games, the next 5 games are even important. Should get maximum points considering 4 games are at home.

kryogen

Well, that was a load of cock

kryogen

Im still fully supportive of the managers of course, but he has a lot to prove and the signs are not that good just yet, he needs to get over his fear and take the job by the scruff of the neck, less cautious.

If he isn't capable of that then, well, I suppose a lot of people will have been shown to be right

I have a big gripe with the rotation, particularly of Rio, it is pretty clear and has been stated that he needs to be managed properly in terms of getting his rest in and not playing too many games within a short space of time. He should have either sat out the Palace game, Europe or this. No excuse for that one.

The_Kew_Tour

Young and Valencia need to be dropped.

Can you imagine the garbage I have to listen to if Nani produced the displays Young has.

Lovely Bloke

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Are we being a bit harsh on Fellaini?

not at all, in the first half when he was playing beside Carrick City's triangles had him confused and they passed him off the pitch, by the time he got near a man in posession the ball was already passed off and Fellaini was turning to watch yet another ball pass him by.

When he was in posession hmiself he did ok, better than his last few games actually, he didn't have an many misplaced long range passes, but for a man who has himself said he sees himself playing as the Defensive Midfielder, he'd want to take a look at himself in today's game, he never got near the City midfield- they literally ran him in rings.


Second half, when he moved further forward (I don't think he was pushed up for longball hoofs, but he WAS more advanced) he did ok, but that was at 4-0 and City had dropped their intensity.

gosplan

Anyone else think Moyes should go with the five man midfield option??

---

Fell - Carrick
Nani- Kagawa - Rooney

---

RVP

So Rooney won't be too happy but it's more of a wing forward role than midfield and with Nani out wide there'll be enough width to the play for him to tuck in towards Kagawa and RVP.

I get that Moyes has his own way but IMO that's the formation that will get the best out of the squad.

Now he's relying on wingers that aren't really good enough. Nani's the best attacking option but he's not good enough defensively. Valencia is the opposite and Young's not the best.

There's a reason few people still play a traditional 4-4-2 these days.The all around wide players he's looking for are pretty rare these days IMO. Last one I can remember is Zambrotta.

jamesbere

gosplan wrote: »

Anyone else think Moyes should go with the five man midfield option??

---

Fell - Carrick
Nani- Kagawa - Rooney

---

RVP

So Rooney won't be too happy but it's more of a wing forward role than midfield and with Nani out wide there'll be enough width to the play for him to tuck in towards Kagawa and RVP.

I get that Moyes has his own way but IMO that's the formation that will get the best out of the squad.

Now he's relying on wingers that aren't really good enough. Nani's the best attacking option but he's not good enough defensively. Valencia is the opposite and Young's not the best.

There's a reason few people still play a traditional 4-4-2 these days.The all around wide players he's looking for are pretty rare these days IMO. Last one I can remember is Zambrotta.

Have to disagree with you, having Rooney out on the left is a bad option, he plays better through the centre.

homerjay2005

appalling performance, appalling tactics and team selection. i was at the 6-1 and at 4-0 yesterday with 30 + minutes to play, it was even more gut wrenching. the thing is, that result has been coming, the signs have been there for ages that we were going to be humiliated and that day finally arrived.

8 points dropped already, including 2 fixtures that we won last year - the signs are not good and its not even about results as there still are 33 games left, its how poor our football is and how clueless we look.

one of the lads who was with me turned around and said to me " he is turning us into Everton".

5 games in, David Moyes start to his United career has been almost as bad as it could be. if he doesnt sort himself and the team out quickly and if RVP spends alot of time on the sidelines, we have not got a hope this season and will struggle big time.

TheDoc

Going to give this thread a miss for a few days.

Had a read of two pages and the typical what I would assume. Lads getting hysterical and stupid over a loss. I fear for our club this year with the fans at their current state. A real and present danger that we turn into a Chelsea or City, with impatient, unrealistic fans.

A poor performance for sure. I think this might be the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of Moyes patience and not trying to rock the boat. I think now he will lay down the law, and start making some personal changes. Young has been terrible for a few games now. I really think that needs to be him.

Also, I'd seriously question peoples knowledge of football, going by the cries for Kagawa yesterday. Are you ****ing retarded? It was clear we were going to line up with Valencia right and Wellbeck left at the start, with RVP and Rooney up top. The injury to RVP ment we needed to shift. Swopping RVP for Chico would leave no striker on the bench, so naturally Young was trusted on the left and then Wellbeck moved up front.

Our left flank was shockingly exposed yesterday throughout, that would have been ten times worse with Kagawa playing in from there. Kagawa cant play in a 2 man midfield, and he wouldn't replace Rooney who is in good form. People need to take a breathe, and keep their rubbish viewpoints on football to themselves. All it's doing is creating hysteria. The team we had out yesterday should have been MORE then capable of getting a result. The players have made Moyes look the fool through a lack of performance but more hurtful a lack of desire.

Like I said hopefully this sets Moyes alight and that while Fergie may have left him " a strong squad" he needs to start kicking lads up the arse. I'd expect Young to completely fall off the squadlist for the coming weeks with Nani, Zaha and Januzi coming in. I think Ferdinand needs some time on the bench aswell, and for us to finally start playing Jones in his towering position at CB.

We need to start transitioning our centre halfs before it becomes too late. We have had a shaky start to a tough run of fixtures. Nothing for me has changed. The league, nothing was going to be determined from this first 5 matches. It's the run we put together now that counts, and it needs to be a serious stomp.

The players should be offended that someone had the audacity to score 4 against them, and make them look that average. Need to see a bit of grit and fight now, and a bit of ego. The team needs to hit a serious run of wins, afterall, this are the current champions.

Some serious laughable posts in here since full time yesterday : /

bryangiggsy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Are we being a bit harsh on Fellaini?

No he was shocking. In no mans land all game chasing shadows.

Whats more disturbing to me is that none of the mgt saw this and took him off.
which leads me to my next pt. am really disturbed by the lack of action by mgt to move with the game
There was gaping holes in midfield and only one change was made. Kagawa a ball carrier and play maker was never considered. Nani neither. Wellbeck was poor and Hernandez was not givin a chance.
Moyes has a lot to answer for on this. Why didnt he move with the game?
4-0 surely would light a fire under anyone. Worrying

TheDoc

gosplan wrote: »

Anyone else think Moyes should go with the five man midfield option??

---

Fell - Carrick
Nani- Kagawa - Rooney

---

RVP

I think its a given that against City and Chelsea you play a three man centre midfield, they are too powerful. But I actually like the way Moyes went with a 2 man midfield. It's what I've always championed, in that we should trust our attacking prowess and go at teams away from home, as much as we would at home.

That wasnt an overly poor tactical decision yesterday, I think he was just let down bigtime. It was Fellaini's first big test in a United shirt and he didn't pass. He was horribly overpowered. It's not massive indication of him, he will take a while to properly settle.

I just think with the current poor form of our wingers, which has been there from last year, we need to look at a 4-3-3 that really utilises some of the attacking quality we have. Having Fellaini gives us a really solid base alongside Carrick, to let the rest of the team attack.

Cantona's Collars

Take a look at Young's and Evra's average positioning yesterday,it's damning that your fullback gets further forward than a so-called winger.

fish fingers

Jesus just keep Young away, please. Beyond useless.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

I think its a given that against City and Chelsea you play a three man centre midfield, they are too powerful. But I actually like the way Moyes went with a 2 man midfield. It's what I've always championed, in that we should trust our attacking prowess and go at teams away from home, as much as we would at home.

That wasnt an overly poor tactical decision yesterday, I think he was just let down bigtime. It was Fellaini's first big test in a United shirt and he didn't pass. He was horribly overpowered. It's not massive indication of him, he will take a while to properly settle.

I just think with the current poor form of our wingers, which has been there from last year, we need to look at a 4-3-3 that really utilises some of the attacking quality we have. Having Fellaini gives us a really solid base alongside Carrick, to let the rest of the team attack.

I think RVP being out was a major problem for us. With RVP we would have had him to hold the ball up and occupy the defence (he is brilliant at that) while Rooney could drop in to make it a 3 man midfield - similar to the game plan vs Chelsea. With RVP out, Rooney and Welbeck were trying to do either role, and not being able to do it well enough - that gave City the superiority in midfield.

I think Welbeck was a poor selection - should have gone with Cleverley or Kagawa in a 3 man midfield.

On top of this, I think Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Ferdinand and Vidic had poor games - which isn't really Moyes' fault.

It was a combination of poor selections, tactics and performances yesterday - with all that going wrong a hammering was on the cards.

My big worry though is that I don't see Moyes doing anything all that good with the side. We played, basically, 442, last season and were caught for it a number of times, and the same has happened this season. Our attacking play is even less inventive than it was last season - we cross from wide or hoof it forward, it is pathetically predictable and easy to defend. Moyes doesn't seem to have any ideas on how to get a creative United side, and is relying on poor wingers - while not giving a chance to Nani or Zaha on the wing, or adjusting the side to bring a creative player like Kagawa in.

I said it yesterday, and I stand by it today, I'm not seeing anything under Moyes so far that has me thinking he is on the right track. Early days, obviously, but we have lost to Liverpool and City, and drawn with Chelsea - games in which we created very little and never looked like winning or doing anything in. We have been easy to defend against and I just don't see what Moyes is trying to do - apart from turning us into a direct footballing side that has no imagination or invention. Even defensively we look poorer than previous seasons - especially on set pieces.

KH25

I really hope Moyes drops Valencia and Young. They have done nothing to deserve a spot in the team.

jamesbere

Yesterday was terrible but not the end of the world. Moyes should see now that welbeck and young aren't up to standard.

Ordinary man

Most people would agree that the best players would be carrick, fellaini, nani, rooney, kagawa and van persie. Yet we haven't seen it tried yet. They mightn't have the same defensive qualities as some of the others but they will score goals. I have yet to see a teamsheet this season where i'd be confident of them getting a lot of chances. Giggs, young, valencia and welbeck don't offer that enough

Mitch Connor

I do understand some people saying Kagawa playing from the left might not work - but we now surely KNOW Young and Valencia wide in, basically, a 442 doesn't work. Would prefer we failed trying to give something new a go rather than failing doing the same thing week in week out.

KH25

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I do understand some people saying Kagawa playing from the left might not work - but we now surely KNOW Young and Valencia wide in, basically, a 442 doesn't work. Would prefer we failed trying to give something new a go rather than failing doing the same thing week in week out.

Exactly. I don't expect Moyes to win every game. He needs time to get used to the team and develop his own system with it. But I would rather see us lose 4-1 with the likes of Zaha, Nani, Hernandez and Januzaj playing rather than continue to watch Valencia forget how to play football and Young do nothing other than constantly cut inside and lose the ball.

Backstreet Moyes

I have no problem with the likes of Wellbeck, Young and Valencia as squad players but they should not be starting.

I would love to see Zaha and Janjuaz starting a few games. They can't do any worse and will be very hungry to keep their place. It's all irrelevant though because i am sure Moyes will stick with these players or bring in Giggs to mix things up.

Mitch Connor

Hopefully Nani, Zaha and Kagawa get good game time on Wednesday - possibly all 3 off Hernandez, 2 from Cleverley, Anderson and Carrick in midfield.

Cantona's Collars

At least Moyes found where Fergie left the hairdryer,seems like he read the players the riot act after yesterday's game.