Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Do you know what Danye said first that I disagreed with? He said that Moyes tactics were in the stone age. It was nonsense talk and that was what I was disagreeing with.

Moyes tactics not being as good as Pellegrini's (when you consider player selection as part of tactics) I can totally agree with. But that is nothing to do with the very stupid statement that Moyes' tactics are stone age.

With regards to giving instructions from the sidelines I wouldn't say there was much any manager could have done to improve things once he had sent out such a shíte midfield and he found them being monstered by a good midfield.

Yes I know. I don't think Moyes is old fashioned or stone age at all and not having a go but I thought you were saying he was set up similar to Pellegrini yesterday and there wasn't much difference in the systems , maybe I have this wrong but on paper it looked similar but City were much better and used a more advanced version of 4-4-2. For me Moyes was behind and came off looking a inferior tactically.

We had a 4-4-2 also with Rooney dropping in to MF. That seemed to be our only tactic along Fellaini sitting deep. City had more going on, Nasri was deployed more cleverly, Rooney dropping deep was accomadated fro by Kompnay. They had two different systems on both their wings which led to them gaining control in MF.

I don't think this means Moyes is not up to task and is tactically inept as Fergie has made some poor selections too. Two seasons ago we had a game at City where we didn't even get a shot off. It was a shocking selection from Fergie so even he had his moments. Its all about how you react and once Moyes views the video evidence i am sure he will tighten up things and get us looking a lot more solid.

What I'm not sure is if faced with another tactically adept manager can he preemptively have a system in place to hurt a big team. Against Chelsea and City he seemed to go for safety and to contain and nullify, we got away with it against Chelsea but a better team like City took the initiative from it and were able to play through us.

Moyes big match Negativity is my big concern right now, it will be interesting to see how he reacts or changes things for the next big game. If he insists with wingers hugging the touchline and two CMs sitting deep any top team can find a way through. I am not sure yet if he knows how to adapt

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

Bad or wrong tactics are not the same as old fashioned tactics.

Wrong tactics deployed on a consistent basis, costing us games, and not being willing to change is old fashioned.

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Wrong tactics deployed on a consistent basis, costing us games, and not being willing to change is old fashioned.

What the suffering fúck do you think used to go on in football? You think managers changing tactics, formations, player selections from game to game is a new phenomenon or something? Seriously what era in football are you talking about where the tactical thinking was that you should keep picking the same players even if they are playing shíte and you should keep using the same tactics even if they aren't getting the desired results?

I think the problem here is that you have misunderstood what football used to be like in the past.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yes I know. I don't think Moyes is old fashioned or stone age at all and not having a go but I thought you were saying he was set up similar to Pellegrini yesterday and there wasn't much difference in the systems , maybe I have this wrong but on paper it looked similar but City were much better and used a more advanced version of 4-4-2. For me Moyes was behind and came off looking a inferior tactically.

We had a 4-4-2 also with Rooney dropping in to MF. That seemed to be our only tactic along Fellaini sitting deep. City had more going on, Nasri was deployed more cleverly, Rooney dropping deep was accomadated fro by Kompnay. They had two different systems on both their wings which led to them gaining control in MF.

I don't think this means Moyes is not up to task and is tactically inept as Fergie has made some poor selections too. Two seasons ago we had a game at City where we didn't even get a shot off. It was a shocking selection from Fergie so even he had his moments. Its all about how you react and once Moyes views the video evidence i am sure he will tighten up things and get us looking a lot more solid.

What I'm not sure is if faced with another tactically adept manager can he preemptively have a system in place to hurt a big team. Against Chelsea and City he seemed to go for safety and to contain and nullify, we got away with it against Chelsea but a better team like City took the initiative from it and were able to play through us.

Moyes big match Negativity is my big concern right now, it will be interesting to see how he reacts or changes things for the next big game. If he insists with wingers hugging the touchline and two CMs sitting deep any top team can find a way through. I am not sure yet if he knows how to adapt

I think that the difference in tactics was marginal and the difference in player quality was much more significant. Both teams defended with a 442 shape. Neither team had a CM genius (like a Xavi or Gundogan type). Both teams had a striker doing the number 10 job who was also comfortable as a centre forward. And both teams looked to their wide men for creativity. The difference was that all four of City's midfielders were superior players to the ones United had.

If Pellegrini had a midfield of Valencia, Young, Fellaini and Carrick there is no way he could have gotten them playing like City were playing yesterday. They don't have the skill, collectively, to play like City did. Now, maybe if Moyes was fortunate enough to have Navas, Nasri, Yaya and Fernandinho he might have made them less flexible than Pellegrini did, that's a possibility but I doubt he would play them be significantly more rigidly. Moyes' teams can do plenty of interchanging of position and clever use of the ball when they are on top of possession, and United would have been on top of possession if we were the ones with the superior midfield players.

So for me the problem is more fundamental than the tactics used on the day. It's the quality of the players in the team.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

You think managers changing tactics, formations, player selections from game to game is a new phenomenon or something?

Easy on the language!!

I'm not quite sure what point your trying to make. My point is that Moyes is insisting on playing the same players in the same formation despite the fact that its clearly not working. He ISN'T changing tactics, player selection or formations.

Pro. F wrote: »

I think the problem here is that you have misunderstood what football used to be like in the past.

I think the problem here is that you actually haven't got a fûcking clue what your talking about. You clearly have never played or coached (thankfully) Your the type of person who plays Fifa, Pro Evo or some other football game to try and gain football knowledge and pass it off here as if you know what your talking about!

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Easy on the language!!

I'm not quite sure what point your trying to make. My point is that Moyes is insisting on playing the same players in the same formation despite the fact that its clearly not working. He ISN'T changing tactics, player selection or formations.

How is not changing tactics and players from game to game stone aged? Tell me what era in football are you talking about where the tactical thinking was that you should keep picking the same players even if they are playing shíte and you should keep using the same tactics even if they aren't getting the desired results.

Danye wrote: »

I think the problem here is that you actually haven't got a fûcking clue what your talking about. You clearly have never played or coached (thankfully) Your the type of person who plays Fifa, Pro Evo or some other football game to try and gain football knowledge and pass it off here as if you know what your talking about!

I do love your clichéd insults.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

How is not changing tactics and players from game to game stone aged?

Because its not working and yet he is refusing to change things despite having plenty of options to do so.

Pro. F wrote: »

Tell me what era in football are you talking about where the tactical thinking was that you should keep picking the same players even if they are playing shíte and you should keep using the same tactics even if they aren't getting the desired results.

The late 80's until the early 90's.

David Moyes IS picking the same ****e players and still using the same tactics now in the present! That's his tactical thinking in the present!!!

Pro. F wrote: »

I do love your clichéd insults.

Clichés become clichés because they're true.

Oregano_State

We're five games into the season lads.

Danye

Oregano_State wrote: »

We're five games into the season lads.

I agree. Hopefully now Moyes starts playing our best players in a way that gets the most out of them. And he turns things around.

Lord TSC

Oregano_State wrote: »

We're five games into the season lads.

While I agree to an extent, three of those were possibly three of our biggest games of the season, and in all three, we failed to impress It's also 13% of our season already gone

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Because its not working and yet he is refusing to change things despite having plenty of options to do so.

The late 80's until the early 90's.

David Moyes IS picking the same ****e players and still using the same tactics now in the present! That's his tactical thinking in the present!!!

Clichés become clichés because they're true.

So in the late 80s and early 90s the tactical thinking was that you should keep picking the same players and using the same tactics even when they are not working. I must say that is news to me.

Or on the other hand, yeah, you are talking shíte. In the late 80s and early 90s players were dropped when under performing and tactics were altered from game to game, dependent on the managers thinking, just as much as in any other era.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

So in the late 80s and early 90s the tactical thinking was that you should keep picking the same players and using the same tactics even when they are not working. I must say that is news to me.

Or on the other hand, yeah, you are talking shíte. In the late 80s and early 90s players were dropped when under performing and tactics were altered from game to game, dependent on the managers thinking, just as much as in any other era.

FIFA or Pro Evo wasn't out then so you had no way of knowing.

bucketybuck

Sounds like Danye and Pro.F are about to get into a feedback loop where they do nothing for the next hour but tell the other that they don't know anything about football.

Still more entertaining than watching Valencia.

bucketybuck

By the way, BBC five live are excoriating United this evening, it doesn't make easy listening.

Danye

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sounds like Danye and Pro.F are about to get into a feedback loop where they do nothing for the next hour but tell the other that they don't know anything about football.

Still more entertaining than watching Valencia.

Haha no mate not from me in anyway. Don't want to derail a good thread anymore.

On to the Liverpool game on Wednrsday. I hope and expect to see some changes. I think everybody will agree that they're needed. What changes would everybody like to see though?

Danye

bucketybuck wrote: »

By the way, BBC five live are excoriating United this evening, it doesn't make easy listening.

Saying what?

Donnielighto

Take it to thundedome.

On topic, danye trying to wind up pro f is hilarious. I don't always agree with him but you can't fault him for good football knowledge and knowing about varying football cultures and team. He also will write essay length rebuttals in his sleep. They're brilliant when one agrees or not.

IvySlayer

Nani, Kagawa and Chico starting please

Danye

Donnielighto wrote: »

Take it to thundedome.

On topic, danye trying to wind up pro f is hilarious. I don't always agree with him but you can't fault him for good football knowledge and knowing about varying football cultures and team. He also will write essay length rebuttals in his sleep. They're brilliant when one agrees or not.

Who? Me or Pro F?

Donnielighto

Danye wrote: »

Who? Me or Pro F?

Pro f got the compliments

Danye

IvySlayer wrote: »

Nani, Kagawa and Chico starting please

This should be the minimum. Ideally I would like him to play the same players (in the attacking positions at least) that are going to play in the West Brom game on Saturday.

I think it would be pretty pointless playing a team with all of the 3 mentioned above in if and then changing it again for Saturday.

Danye

Donnielighto wrote: »

Pro f got the compliments

You know as little about football as him so.

Your Airbag

Januzaj should get a full 90 mins.

If Chico, Kagawa and Nani start I won't see it as a reason to rejoice. It will mean Moyes seems them as the Carling cup team and Young, Valencia and Welbeck as first 11 players.

Blatter

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sounds like Danye and Pro.F are about to get into a feedback loop where they do nothing for the next hour but tell the other that they don't know anything about football.

Still more entertaining than watching Valencia.

Only because Dayne is talking pure crap and can't admit he was wrong to call Moyes' tactics Stone Age.

He started off saying 4-4-2 was outdated even though a 4-4-1-1 was deployed (and by both teams!). Then he changes the angle of his argument to the types of players Moyes picked in a feeble attempt to back up his stupid statement.

Amazing the lengths some will go to to avoid losing face on the internet!

Rayne Wooney

Moyes has to go for this, if the tactics are negative and we lose there's going to be a lot of angry supporters and the tabloids will make it seem as if end times are nigh.

Danye

Blatter wrote: »

Only because Dayne is talking pure crap and can't admit he was wrong to call Moyes' tactics Stone Age.

He started off saying 4-4-2 was outdated even though a 4-4-1 was deployed (and by both teams!). Then he changes the angle of his argument to the types of players Moyes picked in a feeble attempt to back up his stupid statement.

Amazing the lengths some will go to to avoid losing face on the internet!

I never said 442 was outdated. My point was the way Moyes deploys the players in his 442. It's amazing the crap you spout. I didn't know both teams had a player sent off either that enabled them to play a 441?

Your Airbag

Danye wrote: »

FIFA or Pro Evo wasn't out then so you had no way of knowing.

Danye wrote: »

You know as little about football as him so.

Posts like these won't do you any favors. If your going to argue at least try and do it without resorting to insults so quickly.

Pro F has a few opinions I don't agree with, well one actually I think, he rates Clev better than Carrick and I couldn't disagree more. Clev is in the Young, Welbeck group (Val is on his way there too) as not good enough for the first 11 but good squad options.

To his credit he always backs his point up with his opinion, to great lenght at times and is a decent poster.

I'm pretty sure though crap players in the 80's and 90's were dropped and they had more than one system of playing.

Mars Bar

Stop with the "I know more than you" attitude Danye.

Danye

Your Airbag wrote: »

Posts like these won't do you any favors. If your going to argue at least try and do it without resorting to insults so quickly.

Pro F has a few opinions I don't agree with, well one actually I think, he rates Clev better than Carrick and I couldn't disagree more. Clev is in the Young, Welbeck group (Val is on his way there too) as not good enough for the first 11 but good squad options.

To his credit he always backs his point up with his opinion, to great lenght at times and is a decent poster.

I'm pretty sure though crap players in the 80's and 90's were dropped and they had more than one system of playing.

Firstly I'm not looking for favours.

Irregards to the fact that I don't agree with Pro F's opinion I still respect him for having an opinion, airing it and sticking to it. It's nothing personal.

Your Airbag

MASSIVE BREAKING UTD NEWS

THIS IS BIG

AND WILL GET THE THREAD BACK ON TRACK

YOU WONT CARE ABOUT THE 4-1 LOSS AFTER THIS


NEWS INCOMING..................

VERY BIG, EXCITING NEWS

Your Airbag

Bebe has joined twitter

Bebé
@Tiago_Bebe_33

I have finally decided to join Twitter!

https://twitter.com/tiago_bebe_33/status/382182350983282688

Is the real life or just a fantasy?


It's more than likely fake

Danye

Your Airbag wrote: »

Bebe has joined twitter




https://twitter.com/tiago_bebe_33/status/382182350983282688

Is the real life or just a fantasy?


It's more than likely fake

Great player. DM should play him ahead of Young. Has potential ðŸ‘

The_Kew_Tour

I honestly think Young could give Miller a run for his money as the worst United player I have seen.

Some will cry outrageous at that, but he is honestly the most frustrating player I have ever seen.

Otherwise I remain optimistic about United. I think things will turn around.

Your Airbag

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I honestly think Young could give Miller a run for his money as the worst United player I have seen.

Some will cry outrageous at that, but he is honestly the most frustrating player I have ever seen.

Otherwise I remain optimistic about United. I think things will turn around.

You talking about Bebe or Young?

IvySlayer

Your Airbag wrote: »

Bebe has joined twitter




https://twitter.com/tiago_bebe_33/status/382182350983282688

Is the real life or just a fantasy?


It's more than likely fake

Bebe can't speak English that well

J. Marston

So our next 5 league games...

West Brom (H)
Sunderland (A)
Southampton (H)
Stoke (H)
Fulham (A)

All games against mid to lower table teams, 3 of the 5 at home and one of the aways is Sunderland. Anything less than 15 points and I'm hitting the panic button.

The_Kew_Tour

J. Marston wrote: »

So our next 5 league games...

West Brom (H)
Sunderland (A)
Southampton (H)
Stoke (H)
Fulham (A)

All games against mid to lower table teams, 3 of the 5 at home and one of the aways is Sunderland. Anything less than 15 points and I'm hitting the panic button.

I think 13 would be fine.

A defeat would get me nervous though.

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I honestly think Young could give Miller a run for his money as the worst United player I have seen.

Some will cry outrageous at that, but he is honestly the most frustrating player I have ever seen.

Otherwise I remain optimistic about United. I think things will turn around.

Miller was poor but we've had a few other awful players.

Hopefully things will turn around and I'm proved completely wrong. I'll be the first person to hold my hand up.

But back to the Liverpool game, any changes to personnel or formation that anybody would like to see?

Jimmy Iovine

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I honestly think Young could give Miller a run for his money as the worst United player I have seen.

Some will cry outrageous at that, but he is honestly the most frustrating player I have ever seen.

Otherwise I remain optimistic about United. I think things will turn around.

A little harsh but he's incredibly frustrating alright. He is so negative when he receives the ball. He is quick but never seems to want to use his speed. More often than not he just passes the ball backwards.

Jimmy Iovine

He'll never live down that Wolves match. Some of the worst crossing I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loHXXvYA9aA

jonnny68

Stating the obvious here but I still think United need at least 2 more top class players , particularly in defence after yesterday's embarrassing defeat.

The_Kew_Tour

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

A little harsh but he's incredibly frustrating alright. He is so negative when he receives the ball. He is quick but never seems to want to use his speed. More often than not he just passes the ball backwards.

Ya he aint the worst player sorry if it sounded that way, but without question one of the most frustrating.

he is in top 3 there with Miller.

Danye

J. Marston wrote: »

So our next 5 league games...

West Brom (H)
Sunderland (A)
Southampton (H)
Stoke (H)
Fulham (A)

All games against mid to lower table teams, 3 of the 5 at home and one of the aways is Sunderland. Anything less than 15 points and I'm hitting the panic button.

West Brom are on the up. Bad start to the season but as the season progresses I expect them to push on. That win over Sunderland at the weekend will probably kick start their season. United have to beat them but it won't be easy.

If Sunderland get the right manager in that game could also be a lot tougher than expected. The Sunderland players will be up for it big time and see it as an opportunity to impress the new manager. The new Manager will see it as a great opportunity to kick start his managerial career at Sunderland. None the less we have to pick up 3 points.

Big fan of Southampton and their manager. Tactically very astute and have added well to their squad. This will be the toughest fixture out of the next 5 IMO.

Mark Hughes Stoke team will also relish coming to OT. Their playing some decent stuff without any cutting edge put they'll set it as a good chance to get something from this game.

Fulham should be a gimme.

Not as easy 5 games as some might suggest. I also feel these kind of teams will look at some of Uniteds performances this far and feel like they can get something off us.

Realistically though we will need all 15 points available if we are serious about challenging for the title this year.

J. Marston

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think 13 would be fine.

A defeat would get me nervous though.

Not for me. After the awful start to the season and yesterday's spanking, United need to bounce back in a big way.

Elro

J. Marston wrote: »

Not for me. After the awful start to the season and yesterday's spanking, United need to bounce back in a big way.

Is it really that bad though, yes losing 2 games is disappointing as was the performance in those games but had you been told at the start of the season that after the first 5 games that United would only be 3 points behind Chelsea and City would you have been happy? I know I would have taken that.

Cantona's Collars

A big flaw with our play is the movement from midfield,we rarely if ever see any of our cm's running beyond the strikers.Even Kompany did it yesterday for City and he's a Centre Half!

Our midfield play seems to be get the ball pass it to each other,or to Rooney to try to create something.For all the praise Carrick is getting he rarely strays further than 10 yards into the opponents half.Fellaini can make these runs if he's allowed but yesterday he seemed to play as a holding midfielder along with Carrick,a tactic that clearly didn't work.

I grew up watching Robson,Keane,Scholes driving into the box and scoring goals,these days our midfield seem content to sit and allow others to do the attacking instead of taking some responsibility themselves.We have an attacking midfielder who's worshipped in Germany yet can't get a game here.

Danye

Elro wrote: »

Is it really that bad though, yes losing 2 games is disappointing as was the performance in those games but had you been told at the start of the season that after the first 5 games that United would only be 3 points behind Chelsea and City would you have been happy? I know I would have taken that.

I think that's very negative. To be happy at being ONLY 3 points behind.

We're behind already and were playing poorly.

It's actually the performances that bother me more so than the actual results. We've just been so so poor at times.

Mars Bar

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Club-News/2013/Sep/mutv-appeal-to-manchester-united-fans-in-ireland-for-green-devils-programme.aspx

MUTV’s documentary team is kicking off yet another ambitious project, Green Devils, and needs Manchester United fans in Ireland to get involved....

Elro

Danye wrote: »

I think that's very negative. To be happy at being ONLY 3 points behind.

We're behind already and were playing poorly.

It's actually the performances that bother me more so than the actual results. We've just been so so poor at times.

Yes the performances have been disappointing and if they continue that way over the next 5-10 matches it'll become very worrying but we're not playing any more poorly than City or Chelsea and they've both had much easier starts than us.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I honestly think Young could give Miller a run for his money as the worst United player I have seen.

Some will cry outrageous at that, but he is honestly the most frustrating player I have ever seen.

Would you rather have Ashley Young in the first team, or David Bellion!!! :eek:

Elro wrote: »

Is it really that bad though, yes losing 2 games is disappointing as was the performance in those games but had you been told at the start of the season that after the first 5 games that United would only be 3 points behind Chelsea and City would you have been happy? I know I would have taken that.

I really hate comments like these, you simply cannot pick one thing and then use it to say that everything is hunky dory. Thats why United are in this mess, because of the attitude of "Well, we won the league so its all ok".

"Well, we are only 3 points behind so its all ok". But it ain't ok. The transfer window was a load of bollocks, we haven't once played well this season and our team selections have been incredibly frustrating. We can either pretend that its all ok because we are still in contention, or accept the reality that we are not playing at all well and bloody well do something about.

Dropping that useless lump Valencia would be a start, but it seems his place is sacrosanct.