Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Vic Vinegar

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so what do you think it is then? 50-50?

it wouldnt be far off 80% in my opinion, 70% at least as there really is no justification for him at this stage and people realise that. probably was 50-50 already before yesterday, but i would expect a 25%-30% swing, probably would have even be 90% last night at 11.00 before Fellani was signed.

The thing is, 80% of the people are just ordinary Joe Soaps who don't know shyte or are getting their information from tabloids/mates down the pub.

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so what do you think it is then? 50-50?

it wouldnt be far off 80% in my opinion, 70% at least as there really is no justification for him at this stage and people realise that. probably was 50-50 already before yesterday, but i would expect a 25%-30% swing, probably would have even be 90% last night at 11.00 before Fellani was signed.

What's the relevance?
(Outside of the fact that the club don't make huge decisions on the straw pool of fansites....thank fully, else Ronaldo, Nani, Carrick, Fletcher, even ferguson at one point, would be long gone from the club.......)

Chagan

onemorechance wrote: »

It would not surprise me if United had only Fellaini as their target on the last day. The others, especially Herrera, might have been mostly just used to help their negotiations with Everton for Fellaini. Maybe once Fellaini was certain, they stopped the Herrera deal by not giving the lawyers the go-ahead; it should have been clear that they could not negotiate the buy-out down, so their excuse that "we thought the buy-out was the wrong valuation" does not ring true.

If so, the club should be ashamed of itself. By all accounts, Herrera was not only eager to join but was willing to take a pay cut to get it through. Bilbao don't usually forget things like that. I hope we haven't dicked around with the lad's career just to make ourselves look strong in a deal that should have been completed months ago.

Lord TSC

listermint wrote: »

Surely with a list that far ranging and none of them secured in the end constitutes twiddling your thumbs.

Anyone can out out a target list. Securing them is the hard part. And actually reaching their valuations is another one.

Yeah, but I was referring to the idea that nothing seemed to happen between the Fab bid and the Herrera bid. I do think bids were going in, even if they weren't meeting the valuations put on the players by their clubs. To me, that's not doing nothing, even if the something done was ineffectual.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so what do you think it is then? 50-50?

I don't even think it's 50-50 in this thread to see him fired, let alone in general. I've only seen maybe 5 people (and I think that might be generous) calling for him to be actually fired.

TheDoc

A good nights sleep to calm down from the frantic deadline day.

I'd be hypocritical to say I'm disappointed. I said I'd be happy with Fellaini at the start and felt we would get him, so I think it's business done well in the end. Although the path there wasn't as striaght forward.
Herrera would have been a nice addition. The moeny is a bit high and a gamble, but it was nice to see the club go big for a CM with alot of potential. I'll wait to see if we ever hear the story of what went on here, but feels like alot of red tape rubbish went on, typical Spanish transfer tbh.
Contrao was a last minute pick tease. I'm a big fan and think when someone realises he is a winger, he will be a really dominant one in the European scene. Again Madrid seemed to have acted the bollox here.

I can't tar everyone with the same brush. I follow alot of United forums and there is alot of contrasting views. You can sometimes pigeon hole an opinion based on one forum, and especially when there is a handful of loud posters who seem to dominate proceedings. There seems to be a more overwhelming majority that while maybe somewhat dissappointed, are understanding of the fact the club is in a big transitional period and the summer window was never going to be striaght forward.
I for one commend Woodward for going after alot of big targets, and trying his best. I think we may have fallen victim to the over-complex nature of a Spanish transfer thanks to the Spanish FA, that is maybe a lesson learned. I think Bilbao mucked us around here, not Woodward failing to get it done.

I think the most overwhemling sense I got from this summer is that it appears our fans are in fact as fickle and moronic as every other club. I used to laugh at the like of Liverpool fans, Chelsea and City etc. with their instant success models and calling for sackings left right and centre when something minor happens. Unfortunatley it appears now that SAF has left the club, people where cheap with their talk at the start.
And there is an over-rawding sense of tribal fanbase that I loath so much in English football.

I've enjoyed posting in here the last few months and having mature debate, and discussion with like minded fans. At the end of the day we all want the best for the club. Unfortunately it seems this forum has a few noisy posters who feel their opinion is that of fact and maybe more important, and the dramatics at times are laughable.
I remember at the end of the West Brom game with Fergie saying his fairwell speech, that the most important component now going forward is the fans remaining calm. If the fans start turning fickle, we will turn into a club that comes into a title every few years, rather then one that should be in the hunt everyear.

Alot of calls of embarassment for the club, Woodward, Moyes, Rooney, the list goes on. Honestly think the only embarassing thing that has gone on this summer has been the behaviour of some fans.

I'd left this thread for a longitme after it appeared to be a really low level discussion on the team and the club and went elsewhere, and only came back when a friend told me the thread was getting good and there was good debate. And there was way, I was open to having my views and opinions challenged. But the carry on in here the last few weeks has me seriously questioning wether its worth investing my time in following it here.

Some so called fans need to have a really long hard look at themselves, and what they post, and the opinions they bellow.


All of this with less then five games played in the league...shocking

homerjay2005

http://mufclatest.com/open-letter-to-ed-woodward/

Open Letter to Ed WoodwardSeptember 3, 2013
Dear Ed,

Difficult to know where to begin with this letter. I don’t like slagging the club or our players off as I truly believe everyone is doing their best to achieve what we all want them to. It’s felt that way under Fergie’s steady hand for the last quarter century but the club’s public dealings and perception over the last couple of month has been shambolic.

(For those that don’t know you, Ed) – Woodward has been at the club since he helped the Glazer family leverage it with £500m, he was formerly a banker at JP Morgan. In 2005, when Woodward joined the club, one of his remits was to increase the clubs income from sponsors and partners, leverage the vast reach and our so-called 660m worldwide fan-base. It could be said Woodward achieved this seen as United’s commercial revenue was £48million when he started. It now stands at a whopping £117.6mililon.

There is no doubting your ability in a commercial capacity. But signing deals bringing in revenue for Manchester United surely is one of the easiest jobs around. Who doesn’t want to be associated with one of the biggest, most recognisable companies in the world? Regardless of on field success, Manchester United have, and always will be a huge draw. But being the CEO of that company is different.

It used to be the chairman. The local businessman made good. Think Jack Walker at Blackburn. Generally charismatic, they will have gambled their own money to make themselves a success. They don’t stand for bull**** and they know and love the game of football. Operating their own companies they understand the need to speculate. Football at the top-level is high stakes poker and the timid do not survive. Arsenal have struggled on the football front since David Dein left in 2007, yet commercially they are breaking records.

Football clubs can’t be run like the rest of the FTSE 100. Football men like Gill and Dein know and understand the importance of fan confidence and the effect it can have on a team. Abramovich saw Chelsea spinning out of contention in the 2010-11 season and gambled £50m on one of the world’s top strikers in Fernando Torres. Fortunately for us it didn’t work out. Torres was not the player he was in the two to three seasons previous and his transfer now must go down as one of the all-time flops. But at least Abramovich had the swingers to put the cash down and try. I don’t think we have that sort of decisiveness in you Ed, which is evident in our drawn out capture of Fellaini.

The day it was announced Moyes was taking over the talk began of Fellaini and Baines joining their old boss at Old Trafford. Essentially three months have past since that and we seemingly managed to pull it off with minutes to go! I must confess the whole methodology of target acquisition is a murky world to me, but if Moyes identified Fellaini as a player he wants, early in his tenure as manager how did it take so long? There was a very public release fee in place for the majority of the window. Yet we wait until the last moments of the window, lose out on Fellaini getting to know his team mates, potentially cost us defeat at Liverpool and paid £4m more for the privilege. Wow. Someone has to hold their hand up for this and Mr Woodward I think it’s you. For the record I think Fellaini is a fine signing. But we’ve been linked to players in the absolute top deck of world football and it is seemingly YOUR incompetence that has failed to bring them in.

Left-back is a place I felt the club is pretty well stocked in. I love Paddy Evra. I love his attitude, I think he brings a lot to the team in terms of personality and leadership and although his days at the top are numbered I would still have him in any side against any team. Moyes clearly feels different. We bid for Baines, a quite derisory amount back in August. Then a joint bid roughly the amount we ended up paying for Fellaini alone. We didn’t get him although it’s pretty clear the player wanted the move. So out of nowhere there’s a loan signing or an attempted loan signing of Fabio Coentrao and you f#@ked that up too! So we are now left with Evra entering his final contract year knowing full well the club tried and failed to replace him in this window. TWICE. Which can only have negative implications for the squad.

The Ronaldo saga was your opportunity to welcome yourself and the new manager into the club in real style. We KNOW that we’ve tried to negotiate the deal all summer and we think that Gill and Fergie have been involved since around the time of the Champions League games with Madrid. There was a big opportunity to blow Madrid out of the water with an £80m bid. Securing the player, who would have undoubtedly brought silverware with him, would have shown the sort of intent that gets the fans excited and would also have appeased sponsors and partners that we are a global attraction. We even had the chance to do so with Bale. I can understand baulking at the eye-watering fee but with Madrid’s widely known debt problems, we could have hijacked that deal and sorted ourselves another potential world star.

Which brings me to Fabregas. MUFCLatest stated way back in May we’d heard Fabregas wanted the club and that we would bid. 2+2=4 right? Wrong. The club ended up looking pathetic, chasing a player that seemingly didn’t want to come and annoying a club with repeated bids when they obviously don’t want to sell. Again a decisive bid that would have forced Barcelona’s hand and we have our man. Instead of bidding tedious amounts call them up and ask them how much. Barca have money trouble and we have money. It’s easy to work this out.

I’m not even getting started on the shambles that is Ander Herrera. You have a player with a release fee who is willing to take a pay cut to join and you still balls it up. Are you the CEO of Manchester United football club or are you some sort of bumbling, incompetent Ricky Gervais character?

Moyes I think, bar the team selection on Sunday has done a decent job. I expected him to be less adventurous, see a lot of 4-5-1 maybe, but in the last two matches he’s had three strikers on the pitch and he’s looked for us to get goals. So I’m right behind the manager. He’s clearly identified that we need in terms of midfield and left back. He’s managed to keep hold of Rooney, which surprised me, and I think now we’ve got Fellaini we’ll probably do OK. But this season isn’t going to be fun and that’s down to you Ed. How I’d love to be going to the Council House in a couple of weeks to cheer on Ronaldo or Fabregas. Not wondering if we’ve been forced to see Giggs or Young again.

I hope Sir Alex recovers from his hip operation and takes his place on the board and tears you a new arse. I’ve never seen a more farcical transfer window from United. At times I thought we’d recruited that mong Garry Cook. During a transfer window it Is absolutely imperative that we are able to secure the players the manager has identified he needs. Failure on the pitch leads to decreased revenue and sponsors turning to successful sides. So it all has a knock on effect. Did we really need to sign Apollo Tyres? What position do they play in?

You had one job. You failed. We can judge Moyes in May. But you have royally cocked up your first assignment and I for one hope you don’t get the chance to repeat it. I know you are close to Uncle Malc, so I can’t see you getting sacked. So how about you do the decent thing and step down.

By Stephen Howson

IamtheWalrus

KH25 wrote: »

Fellaini has been given number 31.

And not 7? We're signing Ronaldo.

Believe!

onemorechance

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Buy out clauses are the wrong valuation anyway. They make them higher than the players value to deter bids in the first place.

Chagan wrote: »

If so, the club should be ashamed of itself. By all accounts, Herrera was not only eager to join but was willing to take a pay cut to get it through. Bilbao don't usually forget things like that. I hope we haven't dicked around with the lad's career just to make ourselves look strong in a deal that should have been completed months ago.

It seems that Athletic Bilbao take these buy-out clauses seriously. It does not seem that the one set for Herrera was excessively high, especially for a deadline day deal. They didn't sell Llorente to Juve when they wouldn't meet the clause; Juve had to wait until January of his final year in his contract.

I'd feel sorry for Herrera if he was used as a negotiation pawn by United and he did agree to take less wages to help the deal go through. It's not an easy thing for a Bilbao to say they want to leave.

JimsAlterEgo

Has anyone a concrete link to the Fellaini buyout clause, we all know what was reported but there were reports over the weekend that it had been actually been much higher.

Call Me Jimmy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://mufclatest.com/open-letter-to-ed-woodward/

That open letter is a ridiculous self-serving waste of (digital) paper.

Pro. F

Blatter wrote: »

Delighted to get Fellaini in but I do hope we didn't pay more than the release clause for him, that would be an absolute farse. But there seems to be some doubt as to what the release clause was so no point in slating the club for that yet. As it happens, I think 27.5m is about right for Fellaini in today's market. He's a seriously good player and only nearly 26.

I think people are being harsh on Jones at right back. I've seen him play very well there for us but he's in poor form there at the minute, I've seen him play like that before and improve. Hrs a young player who's had a couple of bad games there (from an attacking POV) this season, no need to go jumping to conclusions that he can't play the position. Anyway Rafael should be back soon.

What sort of sources do you have for this? It seems like the majority of the press were wrong about when the release clause expired so that does automatically bring into doubt their claims about how much the release clause was. But it would be good to see what sources you have for there being different claims on the release clause amount, I know you pay attention to which sources are reliable.

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://mufclatest.com/open-letter-to-ed-woodward/

An open letter referencing nothing but rumour and papertalk to try form a basis to judge a man on his employment and performance?

This is the sort of knee-jerk moronic behaviour I'm talking about. This is what will make the club a laughing stock.

Chagan

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://mufclatest.com/open-letter-to-ed-woodward/

Now that is embarassing. Having a go at him for not signing Ronaldo :pac:

Will I Amnt

That letter is just cringey.

Lord TSC

Editor of United gossip site complains cause gossip didn't turn into fact...

v3ttel

onemorechance wrote: »

It seems that Athletic Bilbao take these buy-out clauses seriously. It does not seem that the one set for Herrera was excessively high, especially for a deadline day deal. They didn't sell Llorente to Juve when they wouldn't meet the clause; Juve had to wait until January of his final year in his contract.

I'd feel sorry for Herrera if he was used as a negotiation pawn by United and he did agree to take less wages to help the deal go through. It's not an easy thing for a Bilbao to say they want to leave.

Well, they are in a unique position. They select from a very, very scare pool of players. The kept Llorente when he wanted to leave and he was largely out of favour then, even though he was a standout player for them.

I can understand why dealing with them is so difficult. A player worth €15m to most teams, could be worth €30m to them, as a direct replacement simply may not exist.

Headshot

Letter makes some good points even thou the Ronaldo thing was a load of crap and will never happen.

Maximus Alexander

Everyone and their dog knows that United have been crying out for years for a decent midfielder. There is no way it was ever going to be easy for Moyes or Woodward to go out there and buy one at a reasonable price.

This is a problem that has been gathering steam for a couple of years, and has even been discussed in here in the past: if it is obvious to the football world that you are desperate for a certain type of player, the price for those players will rise. I think it's totally unfair to lay all the blame on Moyes and Woodward. Fergie and Gill have a lot to answer for here, it should never have been allowed to get to that point.

All in all, tough window for the pair of them and I feel sorry for them. But they will have learned a thing or two and the first team has come out stronger at the end of it. The squad is looking good, if players can be kept fit this season United are going to be dangerous.

The important thing is that after four long years, finally

UNITED SIGNED A MIDFIELDER!

dahat

Any official line on what exactly happened in Spain yesterday?

TheDoc

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Has anyone a concrete link to the Fellaini buyout clause, we all know what was reported but there were reports over the weekend that it had been actually been much higher.

Exactly

There was nothing in anyway shape or form concrete about the buyout clause.

Is everyone aware how buyout clauses work ? If yesterday showed anything is that compounding what we already know, journalists know **** all.

You have at most 4-6 people directly involved with a transfer. All of whom never speak to the media. So the media are feeding of scraps for what sources in a club are guessing, that is it.
And the fact that has formed a basis for a man to be judged in the first few months of his new role, is disgraceful.

Why doesn't everyone having a go at Woodward, post your occuptation, and I'll just rip you apart based on random rumours and guesswork.


Nowhere, in any shape or form, does anyone bar a handful of people know how much Fellaini's buyout clause was. So every questioning why United paid 27m is a completely mute point, for all we know, the buyout was 30million. No one outside of Everton's inner circle knows, and nor will anyone outside every know.

Unless either Chairman of United or Everton, the player, or the manager state the buyout clause amount, everything is having a wild guess. When are people going to let that sink into their brains?

Danger781

Lads slightly unrelated note - How do I order from SoccerScorpion?

There's no add to basket button??

Bannerman7

The last word:(

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2013/09/03/4234797/herrera-fellaini-farce-typical-of-manchester-uniteds-woeful

Vic Vinegar

dahat wrote: »

Any official line on what exactly happened in Spain yesterday?

Nope, Herrera may comment later apparently.

dahat

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The important thing is that after four long years, finally

UNITED SIGNED A MIDFIELDER!

Hard to believe alright and one who does make an impact straight away hopefully.

A front quartet of Nani--Rooney-Kagawa and RVP does excite the mind,hopefully we won't have to wait too long to see it.

ericzeking

The same people who are complaining about the alleged 4m extra we paid for Fellaini were shouting from the rooftops to pay whatever it takes for Fabregas.

Just lob in a 50m bid, I believe was the jist of it.

Personally I think Fabregas would have been worth that but that isn't my point.

Cypher_sounds

KH25 wrote: »

Fellaini has been given number 31.

Backstreet Moyes

Surely the Fellaini signing opens the door to fit Kagawa into the team. I presume he will play a similar role that Pienaar had at Everton. Playing on the wing but with a free role drifting all over the place hmm very exciting.

onemorechance

Bannerman7 wrote: »

The last word:(

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2013/09/03/4234797/herrera-fellaini-farce-typical-of-manchester-uniteds-woeful

Goal.com.... Who cares!? :pac:

JimsAlterEgo

TheDoc wrote: »

An open letter referencing nothing but rumour and papertalk to try form a basis to judge a man on his employment and performance?

This is the sort of knee-jerk moronic behaviour I'm talking about. This is what will make the club a laughing stock.

exactly a certain club, we played very recently, fans are notorious for this sh!te

homerjay2005

dahat wrote: »

Any official line on what exactly happened in Spain yesterday?

Club are baffled as to what happened according to sky and they pulled out of the deal as they didnt want to pay the money.

tallaghtmick

Wish we could see Fellaini this weekend for United

Elro

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Wish we could see Fellaini this weekend for United

Yeah, that has to be the worst part about TDD, having to wait 2 weeks to see the new players.

Zico

TheDoc wrote: »

Why doesn't everyone having a go at Woodward, post your occuptation, and I'll just rip you apart based on random rumours and guesswork.

I'm the Chief Executive of Manchester United.

Let rip because I deserve it.

ericzeking

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Wish we could see Fellaini this weekend for United

Indeed, aside from all things football related he is a cool looking mother-f*cker with that hair and the jersey hanging out. He's like something from a bygone age.

Maximus Alexander

Bannerman7 wrote: »

The last word:(

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2013/09/03/4234797/herrera-fellaini-farce-typical-of-manchester-uniteds-woeful

I thought that was a terrible article. If I wasn't at work I would take it a apart.

Neeson

For all the people worrying I suppose you have to look at it and understand these things go around in cycles.

Headshot

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2409827/Sami-Khedira-revals-Manchester-United-34m-bid-sign-him.html

From the horses mouth

master-t

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://mufclatest.com/open-letter-to-ed-woodward/

Jesus........I know Stephen from twitter and have interacted with him a good bit - normally a level headed bloke from what dealings I have had with him in the past, but this letter is embarrassing.


He talks about how our failed bids made the club look pathetic and we are the laughing stock etc, but the harsh truth is, it's letters like THIS that are embarrassing and making us the laughing stock.


Like a bunch of spoiled brats in a playschool.


Again, I think Stephen does a lot of great work with the sites, but this is a bit cringey for my liking.

Maximus Alexander

Neeson wrote: »

For all the people worrying I suppose you have to look at it and understand these things go around in cycles.

Neeson wrote: »

History is written down. These things go in cycles.

Neeson wrote: »

These things happen in cycles. So I suppose you'd have to be happy with Fellaini.

Neeson wrote: »

These things happen in cycles, innit?

Neeson wrote: »

I suppose you have to look at the positives and understand that these things happen in cycles.

Do you have regular blackouts or something?

Oranage2

Whats the fans opinion on Moyes so far?

The Pool loss and the Fellaini buy isnt the best starts, but for some reason the fellaini buy stinks of desparation, when united run out of ideas in a match I can just see him sending the big man up top and Ferdinand pinging long balls to him, not really what united need IMO.

master-t

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Club are baffled as to what happened according to sky and they pulled out of the deal as they didnt want to pay the money.

Big difference between 'they didn't want to pay the money' and perhaps the more accurate line of 'He is not worth 36m'.


If someone offered me a chicken fillet roll for 20EUR and I didn't buy it......it's not because I didn't want to.....it's because it's not worth it.

Danger781

People underestimating Fellaini so much.

I'm quite excited to see him play in a red jersey to be honest.

TheDoc

Khadera was a good move imo, I'm a big fan of his. Powerful midfielder with a commanding presence and is surprisingly neat on the ball. Very good defensively aswell.

Really impressed me in the WC for Germany when he came onto the scene playing alongside Schweinsteiger.

That for me is a plus for Woodward, that he went and made an attempt. Gill probably never would have bothered, at least we did. You never know if you dont ask

Chagan

master-t wrote: »

Big difference between 'they didn't want to pay the money' and perhaps the more accurate line of 'He is not worth 36m'.


If someone offered me a chicken fillet roll for 20EUR and I didn't buy it......it's not because I didn't want to.....it's because it's not worth it.

But if you'd already offered them €17 then it would appear as if you thought the roll was worth it.

Elro

Oranage2 wrote: »

Whats the fans opinion on Moyes so far?

The Pool loss and the Fellaini buy isnt the best starts, but for some reason the fellaini buy stinks of desparation, when united run out of ideas in a match I can just see him sending the big man up top and Ferdinand pinging long balls to him, not really what united need IMO.

The Pool loss was disappointing yes but there was a huge over reaction to it. I'm delighted with the Fellaini buy yes we paid too much for him but he improves the first team and is a midfielder. As for the last part it's better than what we did before when we ran out of ideas, which was launching long balls into the box without a big man in there.

v3ttel

Chagan wrote: »

But if you'd already offered them €17 then it would appear as if you thought the roll was worth it.

Lads, I don't mean to worry you but I've just been to the shop. There are no chicken rolls left.

Pro. F

Oranage2 wrote: »

Whats the fans opinion on Moyes so far?

The Pool loss and the Fellaini buy isnt the best starts, but for some reason the fellaini buy stinks of desparation, when united run out of ideas in a match I can just see him sending the big man up top and Ferdinand pinging long balls to him, not really what united need IMO.

Are you going to pay out on this bet or what? Two and a bit weeks now since the bet fell due and you still haven't paid me.

hufpc8w3adnk65

So he choose number 31 which funnily enough is the day we should have signed him (31st July) before the realise clause lapsed... Still happy he came in.
Have United or Madrid said any thing about Contrao yet official not twitter rumours?

KJF

Athletic Bilbao not so innocent in Herrera to Manchester United collapse, claims Spanish journalist: http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/athletic-bilbao-not-so-innocent-in-herrera-to-manchester-united-c

FutureGuy

master-t wrote: »

Big difference between 'they didn't want to pay the money' and perhaps the more accurate line of 'He is not worth 36m'.


If someone offered me a chicken fillet roll for 20EUR and I didn't buy it......it's not because I didn't want to.....it's because it's not worth it.

This. 36 million for a player I had never heard of, and if he was as good as he was meant to be there is no way he'd still be at Bilbao and not at Barca/Real at his age. 2 goals in 61 games - while I know it's a single stat, it's a telling one.

Honestly, ye might think I'm mad but if I had to choose between him and Fellaini, it's Fellaini without a doubt. Proven PL player, will hit the ground running, perfect fit for the team, incredible threat from set pieces, occasional number 10 in certain situations.

Welcome Number 31 :-D