Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

aperture_nuig

Phoenix wrote: »

How do utd fans in general think youll do tonight?

Not sure TBH. Depends on which united turns up, the one vs Leverkusen or the one vs City.

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I think I'm willing to accept a potential trophy-less season. Let Moyes bring his own players in and find his feet.

I am perfectly happy to accept a trophyless season, more than happy, as long as things are done right.

If we finish fourth but I can see evidence of some greater plan starting to take effect then you won't hear me complain. Say for example Rio was dropped for Smalling and results suffered, thats fine because Smalling could develop into a true great. If Kagawa was played, but was shaky for a while and cost us points, thats fine because it will pay off in the long term as he integrates into the team.

But thats not what we are seeing is it? We are seeing Valencia on the right, Young on the left, and Nani on the bench. Same ****e as last year except now the players are not even playing to the level Fergie demanded and it shows.

I don't care about results. It is the performances that matter, and the performances have been rubbish.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

But thats not what we are seeing is it? We are seeing Valencia on the right, Young on the left, and Nani on the bench. Same ****e as last year except now the players are not even playing to the level Fergie demanded and it shows.

I don't care about results. It is the performances that matter, and the performances have been rubbish.

Agree with this.

Comments on it being a transitional season but so far Moyes hasn't shown a desire to actualy transition the side.

Hopefully now, with the tough opening out of the way, he will show more confidence in himself and the players and not just see what side Fergie put out last season and say 'Yeah, that'll do'.

Nalz

Does PHB, DOC09 etc not post here any more?

Your Airbag

RVP will miss tonight's match according to Goal.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2920/capital-one-cup/2013/09/24/4285578/manchester-united-star-van-persie-out-of-liverpool-clash


According to the Mirror we bid £100m for Bale. B..S.. I would say but if true I'm glad we didn't spend that much on one player

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-made-100m-gareth-2297792

Now for something a little more interesting. Spanish journalist Diego Torres claims in his book, released tomorrow, that Mourinho was in tears when Moyes was named as Ferguson's successor, saying 'he [Moyes] has never won anything'.

Here is the tweet about the upcoming book

Richard Martin ‏@rich9908 According to a book released in Spanish tomorrow, Mourinho was in tears when Moyes was chosen as Ferguson's successor.

and here is the extract in question, in Spanish

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/09/23/actualidad/1379971173_396013.html

Keep in mind that Diego Torres is Argentinian who writes for a Spanish newspaper, he is anti-Madrid and anti-Mourinho.

Your Airbag

Translation of the article with important bits bolded

"The terms of the abdication of Ferguson were the 'scoop' most coveted by traffickers Premier secrets. There were those who toiled for years preparing a web of privileged connections to enable them to guess before anyone else when a vacancy occur. Jorge Mendes, president and owner of Gestifute, braided ties with Old Trafford more than any agent. No representative or bulkier did business with Ferguson rarer. Mourinho, encouraged by his devoted agent, believed that Ferguson was also an ally, a friend and godfather. He became convinced that united them a relationship of genuine trust. He thought his fabulous collection of titles, two European Cups, seven League Cups and four in four different countries, constitute an endorsement inaccessible to all other suitors. When he learned that Ferguson had chosen Moyes, the Everton manager, struck him a fearful unbelief. Moyes had not won a thing!
They were the most miserable hours of Mourinho in his time as manager of Real Madrid. The bore between dozing and waking, mobile glued to seeking clarification from the night of the 7th and the morning of May 8."
"I tormented the memory of Sir Bobby Charlton interview that had granted the 'Guardian' in December. The trials of legendary former football player and member of the board of United, he caused great uncertainty. "A United's manager would not do what he did to Tito Vilanova" settled Charlton, evoking the finger in the eye, when asked if he was seen as a successor to Ferguson. "Mourinho is a really good coach, but I would not go beyond."
"In the morning called Mendes to liaise with the United urgently. Until the end, he wanted his agent to pressure the English club in an attempt to block any operation. It was an act of desperation. Both knew that Mendes had put Mourinho on the market for a year. David Gill, the United chief executive, held regular talks with Gestifute and was aware of the arrangement of Mourinho. But not interested as manager. A Mendes and had told them in the fall of 2012 that the first option was Pep Guardiola Ferguson."
"What most spooked Mourinho was concluded that the public had made a fool. He felt cheated by Ferguson and feared someone might stop taking him seriously. For years, the propaganda machine acting their service had reported the idea of ​​a friendship that is now revealed as a fantasy image. To give coherence to the facts to light, Gestifute advisors advised him to say that he already knew everything because Ferguson had called to inform him. On May 9, Gestifute someone got in touch with the daily 'Record' to tell that Ferguson offered his crown to Mourinho for four months, but rejected it because his wife preferred to live in London, and therefore was over by leaning by Chelsea. Meanwhile, Mourinho gave an interview on Sky where Ferguson stated that kept him promptly aware of their intentions, but never made the offer because he knew that he wanted to train at Chelsea. The contradictions were not planned."

NTMK

bucketybuck wrote: »

But thats not what we are seeing is it? We are seeing Valencia on the right, Young on the left, and Nani on the bench. Same ****e as last year except now the players are not even playing to the level Fergie demanded and it shows.

imo the thing with Valencia and young being selected is probably down to how they train.

Valencia seems to be suffering from the fear from when he broke his leg. Hes probably does very well in training and has shown flashes of his old self at times but when it comes to a game he seems afraid to take a man on even though he clearly has the pace

Young has always been the type of player that looks impresive in a game despite doing sfa. he probably does the same in training too but when he gets caught out (like vs city) he ends up looking like a donkey

I dont have an issue with Val playing vs city as he is usually defensively better than what he showed but Young should not be in sight of the first team if nani is fit.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

RVP will miss tonight's match according to Goal.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2920/capital-one-cup/2013/09/24/4285578/manchester-united-star-van-persie-out-of-liverpool-clash


According to the Mirror we bid £100m for Bale. B..S.. I would say but if true I'm glad we didn't spend that much on one player

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-made-100m-gareth-2297792

Now for something a little more interesting. Spanish journalist Diego Torres claims in his book, released tomorrow, that Mourinho was in tears when Moyes was named as Ferguson's successor, saying 'he [Moyes] has never won anything'.

Here is the tweet about the upcoming book




and here is the extract in question, in Spanish

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/09/23/actualidad/1379971173_396013.html

Keep in mind that Diego Torres is Argentinian who writes for a Spanish newspaper, he is anti-Madrid and anti-Mourinho.

RedIssue were reporting the Mourinho in teams bit back in May.

Have also heard the Bale bid from various people - that we did bid more than Madrid, but Bale had no interest. Spurs wanted Hernandez as part of the deal, Moyes offered Nani.

aperture_nuig

Mitch Connor wrote: »

RedIssue were reporting the Mourinho in teams bit back in May.

Have also heard the Bale bid from various people - that we did bid more than Madrid, but Bale had no interest. Spurs wanted Hernandez as part of the deal, Moyes offered Nani.

So was that £100m + Nani?? Or was Nani's value part of the £100m?

Mitch Connor

aperture_nuig wrote: »

So was that £100m + Nani?? Or was Nani's value part of the £100m?

Don't know. Didn't get specifics on value. Was simply told it was more than Madrid offered. There may have been 2 bids.

One instigated by Spurs (the Hernandez/Nani offers) and a second straight cash offer from United.

Backstreet Moyes

bucketybuck wrote: »

I am perfectly happy to accept a trophyless season, more than happy, as long as things are done right.

If we finish fourth but I can see evidence of some greater plan starting to take effect then you won't hear me complain. Say for example Rio was dropped for Smalling and results suffered, thats fine because Smalling could develop into a true great. If Kagawa was played, but was shaky for a while and cost us points, thats fine because it will pay off in the long term as he integrates into the team.

But thats not what we are seeing is it? We are seeing Valencia on the right, Young on the left, and Nani on the bench. Same ****e as last year except now the players are not even playing to the level Fergie demanded and it shows.

I don't care about results. It is the performances that matter, and the performances have been rubbish.

In fairness Nani and Kagawa have yet to get to full fitness it's no surprise we have seen little of them especially since most games have been tough games. I would have liked to see Zaha get some time. I don't think even Moyes could have foreseen how poor Young and Valencia have been. If over the next few games we don't see Kagawa and Nani working their way into the team i will be disgusted. But i don't think at this stage you can exactly get onto him for that.

tallaghtmick

The Star reports....

Meanwhile, United defender Rafael is considering a return to Brazil, with Corinthians a possible destination for the 23-year-old right-back.

Eh no!

Mitch Connor

tallaghtmick wrote: »

The Star reports....



Eh no!

Wow - that would be a MASSIVE shock. Could only see him returning to Brazil for family reasons. Surely he'll be first choice for us when he returns from injury, and even if he wasn't, I would imagine he'd have no end of offers from big european clubs.

Backstreet Moyes

Phoenix wrote: »

How do utd fans in general think youll do tonight?

All depends really on what team he puts out. I would love to see us play a few of the youngsters.

But with a few handy fixtures coming up i can see him going very strong hoping to get his first big victory.

Nalz

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wow - that would be a MASSIVE shock.

Its a quote from the star so its not a massive shock at all

KombuchaMshroom

What has Moyes' transfer activity in January been like in the past?

If he isn't of the same persuasion as fergie and believes transfers can be done in January then I would love to see us make a serious effort for Herrara again (that's if we were actually in for him in the first place).

He would still be eligible to play in champions league and realistically he won't be getting a start for spain in brazil with the quality they have in midfield so that shouldn't be a factor in his decision. If anything moving to united and helping us to win a trophy would surely only boost whatever chance he has of making that squad.

aperture_nuig

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

What has Moyes' transfer activity in January been like in the past?

If he isn't of the same persuasion as fergie and believes transfers can be done in January then I would love to see us make a serious effort for Herrara again (that's if we were actually in for him in the first place).

He would still be eligible to play in champions league and realistically he won't be getting a start for spain in brazil with the quality they have in midfield so that shouldn't be a factor in his decision. If anything moving to united and helping us to win a trophy would surely only boost whatever chance he has of making that squad.

I think Moyes has said we were, just that we weren't going near the figure quoted for the release clause

Danye

Nuts102 wrote: »

In fairness Nani and Kagawa have yet to get to full fitness it's no surprise we have seen little of them especially since most games have been tough games.

While I can understand where your coming from in regards to lack of fitness for Nani and Kagawa he did start Kagawa in the Champions League. He got a good 60 odd minutes (I think) and that should of been followed up again in the next game to bring his fitness on even more.

Nuts102 wrote: »

I I don't think even Moyes could have foreseen how poor Young and Valencia have been.

I completely disagree with this. He's working with them day in and day out for the past 3 months. How he has failed to see how poor they are from that makes the mind boggle. Even if they where amazing trainers its not as if Sunday has been their first time they've been poor this season. Every game they've played they've been poor bar a 20 minute period Valencia had in the second half of the opening Champions League game.

Pro. F

I don't find Moyes' comments particularly important with regards to what went on in the summer, but I do think they're significant for his management. To me it comes across as a big dose of excuse making and I don't like it.

Fùck the transfer window and whether or not the rivals under performed last season, this squad is better than the performances that have been put in so far. He should be talking up improving the performances and not making excuses imo.

Moyes could have used that presser to light a fire under the players, or he could have taken the heat off them with some distractions, but instead he has made excuses for them.

RGDATA!

Danye wrote: »

While I can understand where your coming from in regards to lack of fitness for Nani and Kagawa he did start Kagawa in the Champions League. He got a good 60 odd minutes (I think) and that should of been followed up again in the next game to bring his fitness on even more.

while I'd have a fit Kagawa in the strongest starting XI - was Man City away a game to bring on a players fitness? Kagawa did alright, not great against Dortmund. Entirely reasonable that Moyes thought him not quite ready to start the City game, think it's unfair the hammering he's taking for not playing him. Someone in this thread even wrung their hands about him being "left to rot on the bench", completely over the top.
Hope to see Kagawa play 90mins tonight.

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

this squad is better than the performances that have been put in so far. He should be talking up improving the performances and not making excuses imo.

Very good point.

I do agree with Moyes' new team appraisal in general - I do think we lack quality in the first 11 - the team is underperforming their level anyway - which is a big part of the issue.

BloodBath

We need to rest some players and give other players a chance. This cup is not important and is worth sfa financially. Saying that we should still play a decent team with a mix of experience and young talent and try to win the thing but with 5 games in 2 weeks Moyes needs to learn about rotation.

Liverpool are missing Coutinho so their creativity from midfield will be limited. We need to play a pressing game and shut Gerrard out of it for the game. Suarez shouldn't get much service if we do.

I don't know the level of fitness for everyone but the team should be something like this.

Team

---

Lindegaard

---

---

---

Smalling--Vidic

---

Rafael

---

Buttner

---

Carrick

---

---

Cleverly

---

Nani

---

Kagawa----Januzaj

---

---

Hernandez

---

Subs
Amos
Evans
Jones
Zaha
Anderson
Giggs
Welbeck

IvySlayer

^^^

Fellaini is cup tied

Mitch Connor

RGDATA! wrote: »

while I'd have a fit Kagawa in the strongest starting XI - was Man City away a game to bring on a players fitness? Kagawa did alright, not great against Dortmund. Entirely reasonable that Moyes thought him not quite ready to start the City game, think it's unfair the hammering he's taking for not playing him. Someone in this thread even wrung their hands about him being "left to rot on the bench", completely over the top.
Hope to see Kagawa play 90mins tonight.

In fairness - it is 3 weeks since Moyes said Nani and Kagawa were fit enough for the bench vs Liverpool - and we have seen an international break (where Kagawa played a couple of games) followed by Palace and Bayer games, then City - and we haven't seen Nani at all and Kagawa only for some time in the Bayer game.

If Kagawa and Nani are still struggling for fitness so badly then the training has to be looked at cause it isn't doing the job.

BloodBath

^^^

Fellaini is cup tied

Lol I wouldn't mind but I've seen that said about 10 times now. Replace with Carrick.

Donnielighto

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Where did I say it was all about money with them? I said

When I said them I meant footballers in general. So ya, you did say it was all about money.

ericzeking

WRT to Rafael...I imagine the twins come as a pair, and his brother mustn't be the happiest at the minute after coming back from a ****e loan spell and now looking like 4th choice RB and 3rd choice LB

I only saw the highlights of the City game as the pub I was in had the GAA on so I won't go into specifics.
I was very disappointed to find with RVP unavailable that Hernandez didn't get a run. The obsession Fergie and now Moyes had/have with Welbeck is fascinating to say the least. He could have the potential to be a really good striker but is still learning his trade, dare I say it I think in an ideal world he would go on loan but he's nearly too old for that and we obviously don't have the numbers to let him go.

From what I saw on Sunday our defending was terrible even leaving aside the poor tracking of our midfield/wingers, I said it in a post last week that I hope there isn't complacency setting in regarding places since DM has gone more or less with Rio/Vidic in every game, it looks to me like there is definitely an element of complacency and dare I say it a lack of respect for the manager/fear that may have been there under SAF, Rio has certainly looked very dithery and I don't think Vidic deserves a free pass either, I have often felt that Vidic comes across as seeing himself as above criticism (-a trait that may manifest itself more prominantly under a new manager) it happened a few times with some of DDGs 'mistakes' where I often felt that Vidic was essentially in his way but he seemed to let DDG take the flak, it's just a feeling I've got from him.
Fire away and shoot me down!

Would have liked to see Nani and Kagawa in the wide roles but DM just went with what current match sharpness, hopefully the next few games will allow us to be more adventurous and get lads up to speed.

Your Airbag

Moyes comments were just the usual PR stuff any manager would say. Fergie would say we played well many times after we didn't and came out we the odd excuse also.

I have no doubt Moyes will have highlighted and read the riot act to the players that need it. He said we were poor after the game.

As for his comments about the transfer window, he said during we were short and we did try to get players in. Its plain and simple that most of them did not want to come or clubs didn't want to sell. He also said he was happy with the squad early on in the window, again erring on the side of caution.

He is not changing his story really, he is doing what all managers do, erring on the side of caution. Fergie was the master of the press conference and we have been spoiled for years in that regard

Danye

RGDATA! wrote: »

while I'd have a fit Kagawa in the strongest starting XI - was Man City away a game to bring on a players fitness? Kagawa did alright, not great against Dortmund. Entirely reasonable that Moyes thought him not quite ready to start the City game, think it's unfair the hammering he's taking for not playing him. Someone in this thread even wrung their hands about him being "left to rot on the bench", completely over the top.
Hope to see Kagawa play 90mins tonight.

I understand where your coming from but if he was deemed fit enought to actually start against BL, who many considered and would consider decent opposition and add 60 minutes of game time I would of imagined him to be fit enough for the next game.

Even if he didnt fancy starting him he could of put him on for Wellbeck in the second half against City even just for game time.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

Moyes comments were just the usual PR stuff any manager would say.

I really don't think it is.

He said the first team isn't good enough.
He give voice to the thought that United won the league last year in large part due to other teams under-performing. The Man United manager said this. This is saying that the team isn't as good as people make it out to be (and he himself said it was).

What he has said may indeed be true, but it certainly isn't the standard PR stuff you would get from managers.

Giggsy11

Donnielighto wrote: »

When I said them I meant footballers in general. So ya, you did say it was all about money.

Yes. Todays football is all about money and player won't give a **** if the club don't pay him well even though he is a fan of the club.

And I don't blame them.

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yes. Todays football is all about money and player won't give a **** if the club don't pay him well even though he is a fan of the club.

And I don't blame them.

for some players it isn't ALL about the money though.

RVP could have earned more at Man City or Juve for example, but chose United.

Granted, he will be earning A LOT at Man United, but if it was all about money he could have earned more elsewhere - while having just as good a chance (if not perceived better) of winning trophies.

I do think there are some footballers who put a value to the team/manager/players they are playing for or with, it is part of the equation.

J. Marston

Phoenix wrote: »

How do utd fans in general think youll do tonight?

Poorly, if the previous big games this season are anything to go by.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

for some players it isn't ALL about the money though.

RVP could have earned more at Man City or Juve for example, but chose United.

Granted, he will be earning A LOT at Man United, but if it was all about money he could have earned more elsewhere - while having just as good a chance (if not perceived better) of winning trophies.

I do think there are some footballers who put a value to the team/manager/players they are playing for or with, it is part of the equation.

There are always few exceptions (I typed that part but then deleted it). My initial point was more about once club man are very rare now a days and players move on if the club don't win or pay big wages which is true for even RVP.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Moyes comments were just the usual PR stuff any manager would say. Fergie would say we played well many times after we didn't and came out we the odd excuse also.

Fergie was a great man for the excuses, but they were usually the paranoid ''everybody is against us so we have to play even harder'' type of excuse. I don't think he would have used the excuse of saying the squad isn't that good, or good enough, when the season was underway. I'm open to correction on that.

Edit: Fergie also used the ''we'll be better when player x returns from injury'' type excuse, but again that's different from saying the he doesn't have the players he wants after some poor performances.

bucketybuck

Nuts102 wrote: »

In fairness Nani and Kagawa have yet to get to full fitness

So tired of hearing this line.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

So tired of hearing this line.

indeed - as I said about, it has been at least 3 weeks since both were deemed of suitable fitness to play against Liverpool. Nani was coming back from injury, Kagawa from basically no decent summer - and we are supposed to accept they are still lacking fitness?

match sharpness, yes - because we are not playing them, but they should be fit from training. Kagawa has played more times for his country than us, how unfit can he still be?

Rubber_Soul

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't find Moyes' comments particularly important with regards to what went on in the summer, but I do think they're significant for his management. To me it comes across as a big dose of excuse making and I don't like it.

Just to play devils advocate, his comments could be construed as trying to light a fire under a team he feels aren't trying hard enough. Something akin to "Oh you think you're the **** because you're champions, well you only won the league last year because others were poor, go out and prove me wrong." Not sure I necessarily believe that myself but it could be what he's attempting.

Mars Bar

Mitch Connor wrote: »

indeed - as I said about, it has been at least 3 weeks since both were deemed of suitable fitness to play against Liverpool. Nani was coming back from injury, Kagawa from basically no decent summer - and we are supposed to accept they are still lacking fitness?

match sharpness, yes - because we are not playing them, but they should be fit from training. Kagawa has played more times for his country than us, how unfit can he still be?

And then Moyes says "I had to give Wayne 90 to get his full fitness even though he was tiring..." spiel. Do that with Kags and Nani so.

BloodBath

I find it hard to believe we bid more for Bale than Real did but if it's true then it can only be seen as a positive. Our left wing is weak and they are trying to get somebody world class for the position.

It doesn't excuse the lack of transfers though.

If we are going to continue playing a wide game, which is ingrained in the club, then we need to strengthen the wings.

We need a world class left winger and a well rounded central playmaker who can hold on to the ball, has good vision and has world class long and short passing ability.

Januzaj could develop into that world class left winger. He already has excellent vision, pace, dribbling, crossing ability and the skill to cut inside and shoot if needed. He's also an excellent set piece taker.

Lovely Bloke

"ingrained in the club" nonsense.

If the new manager doesn't fancy the system, it simply won't be played.

I hate this ridiculous bullshít, you get it with certain other clubs too "The XXX Way", a certain manager is not "XXX minded" enough. People don't "get" the club. "Special History", jesus, such crap.

The history of every club is special, to it's own fans, no history is "more special" than the others - same with playing styles, is playing rugby "ingrained" in Stoke? nope, Hughes has them playing a passing game now.

If Moyes, or the next manager, decides he likes to play a midfield diamond with no width then he's going to get the players in to do that.

all the posts on all the message boards in the world won't change that - and if it wins trophies then who cares?

Liam O

BloodBath wrote: »

I find it hard to believe we bid more for Bale than Real did but if it's true then it can only be seen as a positive. Our left wing is weak and they are trying to get somebody world class for the position.

It doesn't excuse the lack of transfers though.

If we are going to continue playing a wide game, which is ingrained in the club, then we need to strengthen the wings.

We need a world class left winger and a well rounded central playmaker who can hold on to the ball, has good vision and has world class long and short passing ability.

Januzaj could develop into that world class left winger. He already has excellent vision, pace, dribbling, crossing ability and the skill to cut inside and shoot if needed. He's also an excellent set piece taker.

Depending on how much he plays until then, a move for Di Maria would be prudent in January though maybe Coentraõ will still come which would be good. I don't think the squad lacks much outside of a young player to develop under and push Carrick but I guess Jones is there if worst comes to worst. Fellaini will develop his understanding of being the middle link up player and get forward more. They'll both get better at covering the wings allowing more freedom to attack for the wingers and stop this defensive winger crap that is going on

DM_7

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Just to play devils advocate, his comments could be construed as trying to light a fire under a team he feels aren't trying hard enough. Something akin to "Oh you think you're the **** because you're champions, well you only won the league last year because others were poor, go out and prove me wrong." Not sure I necessarily believe that myself but it could be what he's attempting.

That is what I took from it more so than him making an excuse.

Since July he spoke in positive terms about the team. He came into the job and put faith in a select group of players to get the team through the difficult start. Some have let him down and I think his comments were his way of adding to what he has probably said to them in private. The lack of fight put up on Sunday by certain players would frustrate Moyes a hell of a lot more than the scoreline. I think he purposely held off on making the last couple of changes to see what sort of fight they would put up as the game went on.

BloodBath

I'm not agreeing with it but it is the style of football United have played for decades. I would like to see us be a lot more dynamic and be able to play centrally if needed with a trio of attacking midfielders who can cut out wide or go centrally with decent scoring ability so our only threats aren't Rooney or Van Persie.

Donnielighto

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the transfer window is closed 4 weeks and our manger and fans are talking about needing new players.

i rest my case. im heading to manchester now and going on the lash for the day, enjoy the game.

Give over, you've been salivating at this for ages. You are freakishly negative over the last few months, get over it and accept that a transition from Fergie and Gill at the same time was bound to have issues. You are coming across terribly in this which is a shame because most of us realise how committed a fan you are but something just seems off with you lately

Headshot

I want to see Nani and Zaha against pool tonight. Even though I wouldnt be Nani's biggest fan but he is the best winger we have at the moment. Unless he's injured or somthing not seeing Zaha even get a game in the PL is astounding tbh. Surely he cant be as bad as Val has been (even thou Val has improved recently but not enough yet for me to think other wise)

Donnielighto

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What is he doing now then? He is openly saying the United first team isn't good enough and that it was down to the poor form of other teams that we won the league. How is that not firing an open shot at Woodward and Co for not bringing in players?

He towed the party line all summer, then after 6 games changes his tune COMPLETELY. If he is comfortable in this stance now, why so fuking coy in the summer, when something could actually be done about it?

We spent all summer pissing about with stupid bids for Fellaini, Baines (who we bid 12million for TWICE), Fabregas (who we never bid market value for), Ronaldo (who we never bid for) and Bale (who we were never going to get).

Then in the last week of the window we tried to sign any fooking player Madrid had and failed on all fronts there. Along with a weird bid for Di Rossi and Herrera.

The entire transfer approach in the summer was a shambles and Moyes, as manager, has to take some responsibility for allowing it to drag as much as it did.

I also think the 'new manager' excuse is absolutely weak. He scouted us in order to play us - so new our strengths and weaknesses as much as anyone. He knew where we were weak, he knew what the players were or were not capable of. He had from early May through to September 2nd to get what he wanted done and all he could manage to get done was Fellaini. He then blabs on about having only started July 1st and moans about the fixture list. Weak management. I couldn't give a crap if his contract only started July 1st - not getting to work as soon as the Everton season finished is unacceptable imo, and I don't believe that is how it happened.

Yes, Woodward screwed up bids and his approach to transfers was abysmal imo, but it can't be all his fault. Moyes shouldn't have allowed bids to drag on as they did. No need to wait 2 weeks between bids for Fellaini or Fabregas (or longer).

If Moyes considers the United team not good enough (and I agree) then he has to take the blame for that as much as anyone. As manager he is responsible.

Judge the post by the quality it keeps.

We were offered contrecau (sp) werent we and RM pulled out?

BloodBath

Januzaj should start. We should be doing our best to hold onto him and assuring him that his future is with United.

The kid is a future star and is in contract talks at the moment.

He must have been watching Ashley Young in that last game and wondering how the hell he isn't playing ahead of him. I know I was.

Your Airbag

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I really don't think it is.

He said the first team isn't good enough.
He give voice to the thought that United won the league last year in large part due to other teams under-performing. The Man United manager said this. This is saying that the team isn't as good as people make it out to be (and he himself said it was).

What he has said may indeed be true, but it certainly isn't the standard PR stuff you would get from managers.

His exact words were

"I think a lot of people thought Manchester United [winning the title] last season, that it was probably the form of the other teams that was poor,"

He didn't say he thought this. Again he is being asked these questions in a certain way by the press to get a certain soundbite. We just had a heavy loss so the papers are in "Crisis at UTD" mode and will phrase the questions to elicit the desired response.

Pro. F wrote: »

Fergie was a great man for the excuses, but they were usually the paranoid ''everybody is against us so we have to play even harder'' type of excuse. I don't think he would have used the excuse of saying the squad isn't that good, or good enough, when the season was underway. I'm open to correction on that.

Edit: Fergie also used the ''we'll be better when player x returns from injury'' type excuse, but again that's different from saying the he doesn't have the players he wants after some poor performances.

Fergie had no problem in having a go at the team. Just look at our last heavy loss at home to City. He came out and said the defense should have known it was over and gone for damage limitation. I remember after another defeat to City at Maine road he lambasted the squad in a post match interview and actually said "Maybe I should let the fans go in and have a word with them".

Moyes won't have a s much leeway as Fergie until he wins something but the comments are nothing unusual to me. Has anyone watched the entire press conference for context, the papers did a similar spin a couple of times during the transfer window. Its funny to me when people want to lap this stuff up. It comes down to wanting to believe it or not. If Moyes said similar things (we need more players, the other teams were poor last year) after a win on Sunday he would be getting hailed for great "Mind games" and wanting to further improve the squad.

Mitch Connor

Donnielighto wrote: »

Judge the post by the quality it keeps.

What?

We were offered contrecau (sp) werent we and RM pulled out?

From what i have read - we asked for Coentrao, and Madrid agreed but didn't sign the replacement they wanted.