Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

KombuchaMshroom

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

even tonight had few decent runs.

looks the business.

Moyes deserves credit for showing faith in him.

Very true.

Quite possible that if Fergie was still in charge he would have thrown on
Valencia instead of him purely for his work rate. Delighted that Moyes is showing faith in him, hopefully Zaha gets a run out soon now too.

Not trying to slag Ferguson in anyway btw, its just a difference between the two managers that I'm happy about.

bucketybuck

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

I was genuinely shocked and suprised how some prominent posters in here oer the summer were literally writing Rooney off as a has been. As I've said throughout the summer it was imperative that e stayed if we wanted to challenge for trophies, the fulcrum to a substantial amount of our good play.

I don't really get comments like these, personally I think the fans now fawning over Rooney are being quite hypocritical. He handed in two transfer requests, he doesn't want to be there, so its completely understandable that many fans would have been perfectly happy to see the back of him.

Two good performances don't change that. Nobody ever said he wasn't a quality player, why should the fact that he played a few good games change the fact that he wanted out of the club? Just how fickle are some people?

If you said in the summer that you didn't care if Rooney left, then its hypocritical to now proclaim him as our one last hope just because he played a few good games, nor even if he played twenty good games.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't really get comments like these, personally I think the fans now fawning over Rooney are being quite hypocritical. He handed in two transfer requests, he doesn't want to be there, so its completely understandable that many fans would have been perfectly happy to see the back of him.

Two good performances don't change that. Nobody ever said he wasn't a quality player, why should the fact that he played a few good games change the fact that he wanted out of the club? Just how fickle are some people?

If you said in the summer that you didn't care if Rooney left, then its hypocritical to now proclaim him as our one last hope just because he played a few good games, nor even if he played twenty good games.

I can say with almost 100% confidence that he didn't.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

I can say with almost 100% confidence that he didn't.

If you like. Personally I would be confident that had United received a bid from one of the big foreign clubs in the summer Rooney would have left the club.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

If you like. Personally I would be confident that had United received a bid from one of the big foreign clubs in the summer Rooney would have left the club.

That's not what you said though. Rooney let everyone down. Again. But he stayed and is still showing his quality and giving his all and should be supported until that changes.

Backstreet Moyes

Could you imagine Rooney in this form playing for Chelsea so glad that never happened.

Liam O

Nuts102 wrote: »

Could you imagine Rooney in this form playing for Chelsea so glad that never happened.

Mata coming the other way would have made that easier though. Younger and of similar quality. Not as good overall probably but still an apt replacement.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

That's not what you said though. Rooney let everyone down. Again. But he stayed and is still showing his quality and giving his all and should be supported until that changes.

Basically, he can disrespect the club, but as long as he plays well its ok.

Vic Vinegar

Headshot wrote: »

Is Zaha injured?

He was on the bench.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

Basically, he can disrespect the club, but as long as he plays well its ok.

So long as he is giving 100% on the field and not causing problems in training then yeah, I don't see why not.

F.J.

I want Rooney gone.He wanted to go to City in 2010 and made a balls of a transfer request.He wanted to go to Chelsea this year but tried being clever about it(i.e. not handing in a request but going to the media).

Bearing this in mind wanting to leave once is just about forgivable but twice is taking the p!ss.I don't accept the "he is not a fan" argument at all.If that was the case a lot players who have played for United wouldn't have.

He is playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world and is winning trophies most years.

I was disappointed to see he was captain this evening.Would have preferred Giggs or Evans to get it.At this rate United will be handing the keys of Old Trafford over to him next.

F.J.

Andy Mitten who produces the United We Stand fanzine has an interview with Ed Woodward in next months magazine I think.Might get some answers to the summer shenanigans

yabadabado

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

even tonight had few decent runs.

looks the business.

Moyes deserves credit for showing faith in him.

really hope Moyes continues to give him minutes and maybe a few starts between now and xmas.He looks so promising and we have a decent run of games between now and Arsenal in November so he could get plenty of time.
Hopefully Nani and Kagawa start on Saturday and get their seasons started.

Hulk Hands

tallaghtmick wrote: »

If Buttner plays like that more often I'd be happy.

Thought he played very well, even though Liverpool targeted him. Shouldve had a penalty also. Showed enough to show he should be first in line as Evra's back-up. Fabio's better as a RB anyway, so i'd be content to let him contend with his brother for that spot.

Backstreet Moyes

Hoping to see the below for Saturday with hopefully Zaha and Janjuaz coming on with 30 minutes or so to go.

Carrick Fellaini

Nani Rooney Kagawa

Hernandez

yabadabado

Nuts102 wrote: »

Hoping to see the below for Saturday with hopefully Zaha and Janjuaz coming on with 30 minutes or so to go.

Carrick Fellaini

Nani Rooney Kagawa

Hernandez

Would be brilliant to have the game wrapped up early and both lads to get a decent run out and replace Nani and Kagawa.

BloodBath

5 relatively easy fixtures coming up. More including champions league games. I want to see more of the younger players being given a chance to prove themselves. Our incredibly young back 4 proved themselves tonight and showed even more that it's time for Rio to be replaced in the squad. I was worried the lack of leadership at the back would prove costly.

We got lucky at times and a stronger team would have shown them up but a clean sheet is a clean sheet against a first choice Liverpool side.(minus injured Coutinho and Johnson of course) Evans and Smalling should be getting a lot more game time at the back. You can't develop players properly if they don't get game time and imo Jones, Smalling and Evans are all better than Rio at the moment. Moyes should start experimenting with combinations of young and old at the back and rotating them so we have the experience and leadership of Rio and Vidic along with developing the younger talents. The Vidic + Evans combo has already proven itself to be strong.

2moreMinutes

F.J. wrote: »

Andy Mitten who produces the United We Stand fanzine has an interview with Ed Woodward in next months magazine I think.Might get some answers to the summer shenanigans

Heard a few weeks back that someone else has an interview coming up with him shortly too. Think it might be Michael McMullan on Today FM but not entirely sure.

Backstreet Moyes

BloodBath wrote: »

5 relatively easy fixtures coming up. More including champions league games. I want to see more of the younger players being given a chance to prove themselves. Our incredibly young back 4 proved themselves tonight and showed even more that it's time for Rio to be replaced in the squad. I was worried the lack of leadership at the back would prove costly.

We got lucky at times and a stronger team would have shown them up but a clean sheet is a clean sheet against a first choice Liverpool side.(minus injured Coutinho and Johnson of course) Evans and Smalling should be getting a lot more game time at the back. You can't develop players properly if they don't get game time and imo Jones, Smalling and Evans are all better than Rio at the moment. Moyes should start experimenting with combinations of young and old at the back and rotating them so we have the experience and leadership of Rio and Vidic along with developing the younger talents. The Vidic + Evans combo has already proven itself to be strong.

None of Evans, Smalling or Jones are near as good as Ferdinand unless you have the memory of a goldfish a few poor performances don't make you a bad player. He was in the team of the year for last season ffs a slow start to the season doesn't mean he is past it.

Evans has had plenty of games over the last two seasons and has done well. Smalling has had a lot of niggling injuries he has very little first team experience. He is still raw but is very promising. Jones was awful at the back in his first season but done well with a run of games at the end of last season.

On your last point Evans and Vidic proved to be a decent partnership. Evans and Ferdinand have proven to be a decent partnership. From January on when Rio and Vidic were together last season you can see the difference between a decent partnership and an excellent partnership. Look at the first half of last season and the goals leaked. Look from January onwards and we conceded very few goals. I would like the younger players getting some games but all 3 are a long way off Ferdinand at the moment.

sReq | uTeK

Nuts102 wrote: »

None of Evans, Smalling or Jones are near as good as Ferdinand unless you have the memory of a goldfish a few poor performances don't make you a bad player. He was in the team of the year for last season ffs a slow start to the season doesn't mean he is past it.

Evans has had plenty of games over the last two seasons and has done well. Smalling has had a lot of niggling injuries he has very little first team experience. He is still raw but is very promising. Jones was awful at the back in his first season but done well with a run of games at the end of last season.

On your last point Evans and Vidic proved to be a decent partnership. Evans and Ferdinand have proven to be a decent partnership. From January on when Rio and Vidic were together last season you can see the difference between a decent partnership and an excellent partnership. Look at the first half of last season and the goals leaked. Look from January onwards and we conceded very few goals. I would like the younger players getting some games but all 3 are a long way off Ferdinand at the moment.

Would have to agree, they're not up to rios standard yet, rio played 6 games in a row, last season he would be lucky to play 2. It's showed in the last few he's been tired but when deployed properly Hes still head and shoulders above jones, Evans an smalling. Didnt people say he was finished last season hen bale, one of the quickest wingers on the planet beat him for pace. Lolz

Cypher_sounds

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't really get comments like these, personally I think the fans now fawning over Rooney are being quite hypocritical. He handed in two transfer requests, he doesn't want to be there, so its completely understandable that many fans would have been perfectly happy to see the back of him.

Two good performances don't change that. Nobody ever said he wasn't a quality player, why should the fact that he played a few good games change the fact that he wanted out of the club? Just how fickle are some people?

If you said in the summer that you didn't care if Rooney left, then its hypocritical to now proclaim him as our one last hope just because he played a few good games, nor even if he played twenty good games.

I am not 'now fawning' over Rooney. What don't you get about my comment? I didn't want him to leave even when Fergie said he asked to leave. How am I being hypocritical? I want our top players to stay at the club given they perform to the best of their capabilities whether they want to be there or not I'm not going to worry too much about that as their is nothing I can do about it.
I am not sure what can be hard to 'get' out of that.

DM_7

Not perfect but some encouraging things to take from the game.

I think Jones showed again last night that he is capable back up player for midfield.

Smelling and at times Evans has some dodgy moments clearing the ball with the long balls and deep crosses played in by Liverpool, not surprising when they have not played centre half all season, did well on the ground when people ran at them so good performances overall from both. Rafael and Buttner had good games all round.

I really liked seeing Rooney, Nani, Kagawa play together, showed some good link ups and (particularly in the second half) they kept switching positions which made them very hard to mark, Hernandez also swapped around at times and deserves to play a lot more. Compared to Sunday where City knew exactly where to find Welbeck, Rooney, Val and Young it was positive change in set up that hopefully can be built on.

I really hope Kag and Chica not playing the full game means they are playing against west brom.

Lucas Hood

Zaha not getting any game time is annoying .
Hopefully he's given a chance against West Brom

Tom.D.BJJ

Play Kagawa = win. Simple game. Hopefully he get lots of gametime with our next run of games. He looks like he needs it too.

Moyes took a massive gamble with that midfield last night. Thankfully, we got away with it. You could see the massive claming effect that Carrick had when he came on. It only serves to highlight how short we still are in that position. Hopefully CM is still top of Moyes priority list in January.

Kilkenny14

Great to Chico back, and his movement for the goal was impressive, even for him.

What's the likelihood of RVP playing at the weekend?

NTMK

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

What's the likelihood of RVP playing at the weekend?

he is 50/50 for the weekend iirc

Backstreet Moyes

DM-ICE wrote: »

Not perfect but some encouraging things to take from the game.

I think Jones showed again last night that he is capable back up player for midfield.

Smelling and at times Evans has some dodgy moments clearing the ball with the long balls and deep crosses played in by Liverpool, not surprising when they have not played centre half all season, did well on the ground when people ran at them so good performances overall from both. Rafael and Buttner had good games all round.

I really liked seeing Rooney, Nani, Kagawa play together, showed some good link ups and (particularly in the second half) they kept switching positions which made them very hard to mark, Hernandez also swapped around at times and deserves to play a lot more. Compared to Sunday where City knew exactly where to find Welbeck, Rooney, Val and Young it was positive change in set up that hopefully can be built on.

I really hope Kag and Chica not playing the full game means they are playing against west brom.

What we saw last night was some potential of a good partnership of Nani, Rooney and Kagawa. Nani and Kagawa showed some promise. Neither were excellent but showed glimpses of what they can do when they get a run of games.

They offer far more creativity we lack with Young and Valencia. I will be really annoyed if we don't see Nani and Kagawa start the weekend. The next few games are ideal to start this new partnership.

Lucas Hood

I'd keep Rvp on the bench even if he's ok . We should be able beat Wba without him , Shaktar away is the tougher game .

Backstreet Moyes

On the City game do people think Fellaini was really put up against it. Well not just Fellaini it's only he is a new signing.

Looking back at the game Moyes set up all wrong and it put Carrick and Fellaini at a huge disadvantage. We set up with two holding players who are meant to break up play for wingers to attack. Instead we played with wingers who's best attributes are running back towards their own goal and Rooney having to drop into his own half. The more i think about it the team selection and tactical set up was all wrong. I think we actually made it so easy for City we made them look better than they are. Moyes really needs to step up in this regards in big games we can't keep losing big games and challenge for the league. Even last night Giggs and Jones was a baffling decision but he got away with it.

TheDoc

Impressed and chuffed with last night. Always a different atmosphere in a pub environment watching a game, but felt we did well overall.

It became glaring in the second half we needed to stregnthen up with 3 in midfield. Giggs got tired and Jones aswell considering he was doing a workmans load in there. Moyes still appears to be learning when to make the tactical changes for United. It needed to happen relatively early, but instead he waited for Liverpool to carve a couple of decent chances before making the change. It needed to happen quicker.

Good to see Nani and Rafael back on the right wing together. Both were rusty but showed more adventure then other pairings have this season. I think Raf Rafael and Nani are obviously just returning from injury ( Nani back a while but needing some more training) so I wouldn't rush them back in, but as soon as they are firing on all cyclinders, I'd like that to be the right flank. Nani played some lovely interchanges, took on his man, and roamed causing problems. Granted some specualtive efforts, I think we need to just live with that.

Had a good conversation in the pub with randomers who seemed to come around to my thinking and changing their views. They had the " Shocking he doesn't play Kagawa everygame" and I outlined his poor pre-season and that he is easily a few weeks behind the rest. For the second time Kagawa has gone flat in the second half of a game. His fitness isn't there yet, he still needs a few weeks. Also there needs to be caution with him. He hit some injuries last year after playing alogside his mental travel for Japan. I think he needs to be taken care off, to ensure he doesn't get injuries caused by fatigue and a poor travel schedule.
I don't see his ultimate position out wide left, but it works. It's worth remebmering he only came to the front for Dortmund when he played out elft to replace the injured Gotze. When he was playing through the middle, he wasn't setting the world alit. He was devastating from the left roaming in field in Bundesliga. So I think that is a good option while we review the trash that is Ashely Young. Obviously slotting him in central would be nice, but not with Rooney in such form.

Rooney. He is on fire, and when he is on fire, you can't hlep feel we will win games. Good play, great linkup play and his all round play was just brilliant. I havn't kept secret I'm no fan of his, and I can't help constantly guess a hidden agenda with him. He is held the club ransom now twice, and word is he is shortly going to be approached for another bumper contract. I'll hold judgement on Rooney a bit longer then most, who seemed to 180 turn the minute he scored his first goal. I find it hard to truely get onside with him due to his antics, but there is no doubt when on form he makes us so much more potent. I guess it will be interesting to see when he hits his barren spell(which he always does) what sort of reaction we get from fans, and the player himself.

Was happy to see Chico score, but I think he is in an unusual situation. I firmly believe he will leave the club after this seasos. While a great goalscorer and an absolute gem in the box, his play outside of the box is pretty average. I don't think he comes ahead of any of Wellbeck, RVP or Rooney, and I agree. For himself, I don't think he will be happy with being a bit part player, and it's unfortunate we cannot integrate him into the side, but the allround play from the other three players trumps Hernandez in general. While he has a great goalscoring return, in games he has started where he hasn't scored, he really is anonomous. An unusual situation that I don't see anything past him leaving I'm afraid.

Your Airbag

Some encouraging words from Moyes

He said this before the game

"I think the way the season's started has made it difficult for me to see to many of the them with the tough opening fixtures."

He said after the result that

Kagawa is "still short of being really at full match fitness"

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=2181133.html


Its encouraging because fitness etc may have played a part in his team selections thus far ie The City team may not be his ideal eleven. The closet we got to it as fans was the Bayer game, with the exclusion of Nani due to the red card. He may have felt Kagawa and Nani were not match fit to face City so soon afterwards so it gives me hope that the Bayer eleven would be his pick.

And this

"The criticism is not frustrating because I will sort it. I will fix it. I will turn it around. I have got no doubt about that."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/26/david-moyes-manchester-united-liverpool


I thought Smalling and Evans did a good Job of keping Suarez and Sturridge under control last nights, its good to see we have quality back up.

In other news it seems Pirlo is on his way out of Juve and guess who are being linked with a January move

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/25/football-transfer-rumours-andrea-pirlo-manchester-united

Giggsy11

Rafael has become such an important player for us, we really missed him against Chelsea and Liverpool. He links up superbly and he is very confident and very good on the ball.

Loved this pic from game against Liverpool.

Danye

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I think I see the problem, yes, wait, there it is

What is it?

kryogen

TheDoc wrote: »

It's worth remebmering he only came to the front for Dortmund when he played out elft to replace the injured Gotze. When he was playing through the middle, he wasn't setting the world alit. He was devastating from the left roaming in field in Bundesliga.

No, simply not accurate

BloodBath

Nuts102 wrote: »

None of Evans, Smalling or Jones are near as good as Ferdinand unless you have the memory of a goldfish a few poor performances don't make you a bad player. He was in the team of the year for last season ffs a slow start to the season doesn't mean he is past it.

Evans has had plenty of games over the last two seasons and has done well. Smalling has had a lot of niggling injuries he has very little first team experience. He is still raw but is very promising. Jones was awful at the back in his first season but done well with a run of games at the end of last season.

On your last point Evans and Vidic proved to be a decent partnership. Evans and Ferdinand have proven to be a decent partnership. From January on when Rio and Vidic were together last season you can see the difference between a decent partnership and an excellent partnership. Look at the first half of last season and the goals leaked. Look from January onwards and we conceded very few goals. I would like the younger players getting some games but all 3 are a long way off Ferdinand at the moment.

When a player consistently gets worse every season and others improve every season there is eventually a crossover point. We have reached that point. Obviously Rio has more experience but does he have the fitness, speed and desire to play at the top level? Based on his performances so far I would say no. He was poor right from the start of the season so it can't be put down to tiredness. Our defence used to be solid as a rock. The kind of goals we have been conceding are a joke. Not all are the CB's fault but a lot of them are. Rio has been lucky his mistakes and bad marking haven't led to more goals.

Should we continue playing our 2 oldest cb's together while we have 3 upcoming prospects, 1 who has proven himself perfectly capable already. (Evans) My suggestion was to rotate Vidic and Ferdinand alongside the younger players rather than playing Vidic and Ferdinand together every game. They need experience and Rio should not be playing every game. Vidic has been injury prone as well but should still be getting the Lions share of games.

Will I Amnt

We're blessed to have Smalling and Evans as back up. Evans in particular would get into almost any other side in the league. Criminally underrated defender.

RasTa

Great atmosphere in the last 15mins. Place was rocking

fcleere

good game last night, lacked a bit of intensity for the most part but it was entertaining.
Evans and smalling did get caught out on a few occasions but they recovered well in those situations, hopefully a bit of game time will improve the sharpness.
Kagawa is lovely on the ball, some of his touches and short passes are excellent but he still seems to be lacking the required fitness and needs to improve his physicality!
I would see Nani as having proved himself to be the better of the wingers so hopefully he will start getting game time over Young.
Would like to see Hernandez starting against WBA also, great finisher!

Nolars

Rooney wasnt match fit and Moyes played him to get his match fitness up. Kagawa apparently hasn't been match fit sense the season started and he cant get a full 90 minutes in the capital cup.

Your Airbag

Nolars wrote: »

Rooney wasnt match fit and Moyes played him to get his match fitness up. Kagawa apparently hasn't been match fit sense the season started and he cant get a full 90 minutes in the capital cup.

Rooney has had more game time then Kagawa so he is behind Rooney in terms of being match fit. You ease players in at varying levels with game time and training. That is why Rooney was eased in against Swansea. Giving Kagawa 90mins in high intensity game like last nights one is not how you get a player match fit. Its how you risk injury and fatigue.

Nolars

Your Airbag wrote: »

Rooney has had more game time then Kagawa so he is behind Rooney in terms of being match fit. You ease players in at varying levels with game time and training. That is why Rooney was eased in against Swansea. Giving Kagawa 90mins in high intensity game like last nights one is not how you get a player match fit. Its how you risk injury and fatigue.

He's played 3 games for Japan and twice for utd now. Yes he has traveled alot but that never seemed to effect him at Dortmund. Kagawa doesn't need easing in he needs to be playing and showed confidence in otherwise he will be back at dortmund in the summer.

JimsAlterEgo

Different players need handling different ways, you got to trust the backroom team to know what individual treatment each player needs, long haul flights don't help the situation either

Nolars

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Different players need handling different ways, you got to trust the backroom team to know what individual treatment each player needs, long haul flights don't help the situation either

The season before he joined united he played in every single game for dortmund including playing for japan like 8 times. But when he comes to united it affects him all of a sudden....

JimsAlterEgo

Nolars wrote: »

The season before he joined united he played in every single game for dortmund including playing for japan like 8 times. But when he comes to united it affects him all of a sudden....

so you know best :rolleyes:

Nolars

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

so you know best :rolleyes:

Im just telling you the stats in the 11/12 season he played every single game for dortmund. Explain why at united its suddenly burden playing for Japan?

Giggsy11

Nolars wrote: »

The season before he joined united he played in every single game for dortmund including playing for japan like 8 times. But when he comes to united it affects him all of a sudden....

Nolars wrote: »

Im just telling you the stats in the 11/12 season he played every single game for dortmund. Explain why at united its suddenly burden playing for Japan?

Maybe United have a big squad so can afford to rest the player after International break whereas when he was at Dortmund their squad was not big and didn't have a good enough replacement?

Would love to see Kagawa starting most games but I wouldn't mind him on bench after International break, we have big enough squad to cope with that.

Lucas Hood

Nolars wrote: »

Im just telling you the stats in the 11/12 season he played every single game for dortmund. Explain why at united its suddenly burden playing for Japan?

Wrong , he missed 3 games in the league & 1 in the cup .

MagicMarker

Nolars wrote: »

Im just telling you the stats in the 11/12 season he played every single game for dortmund. Explain why at united its suddenly burden playing for Japan?

Germany's closer to Japan. :pac:

Nolars

MagicMarker wrote: »

Germany's closer to Japan. :pac:

Doesnt he fly from Paris now I think that's actually an hour longer flight then from Germany.

Nolars

Distance from France to Japan is: 6069.2 Miles

( 9767.5 Kilometers / 5270.5 Nautical Miles )

Approximate flight duration time from Paris, France to Tokyo, Japan is 12 hrs, 36 mins

Distance from Germany to Japan is: 5566.2 Miles

( 8957.9 Kilometers / 4833.7 Nautical Miles )

Approximate flight duration time from Berlin, Germany to Tokyo, Japan is 11 hrs, 33 mins

Sure no wonder why he isn't playing, poor fella.