Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

2moreMinutes

The SAF extra 20% factor is missing but that still doesn't excuse the players today. Rio was very poor, I'm hoping Kagawa was injured, Nani showed a bit more life but was still largely anonymous, Anderson was poor. Overall a very very poor performance from a team that should have been good enough to easily beat West Brom.

Paul Tergat

Trilla wrote: »

A team containing Anderson, Buttner, Jones at right back and Rio the way he's playing wouldn't be a shoe in to beat any team in the PL now.

That's just the way it is

Evans was poor today too

Disappointing stuff

If they performed as they are capable of doing then they certainly can beat WBA at home. The only player I dont think is good enough is Buttner (Anderson possibly too) but the rest of that team is

edgecutter

This team looks so poor right now and I believe it is not only down to a change of management, but also down to the change of the coaching staff. Why did Moyes get rid of a successful coaching staff that knew the team so well?

Rayne Wooney

Imagine paying in to see that shíte?

United have been masquerading as a top club the last few season with little investment, none in some cases, to the first 11. How long did the people in charge of the club think it would last without getting some top players in? You can harp on about our squad strength being amongst the best in the world but without top players we'll lose games.

Carrick has been poor this season, Anderson is never a United player, Cleverley is a squad player and should really only be used in games against the bottom teams and league cup games, Fellaini hasn't been great. That's meant to be the spine of our team, a bunch of mediocrity.

The pressure is going to start piling on Moyes now, you'd expect this kind of start in the league from Everton not United. I was confident about the next few games in the league but if we play like we have in every other game this season without some kind of changes we're really in trouble.

Soldie

All credit to West Brom; their game plan was spot on and they executed it perfectly.

But what's going on at United? I feel like our poor transfer dealings are merely compounding Moyes' inability to pick a sensible team with the players he's got.

Dropping Young and Valencia was good start, but an ageing Ferdinand and an increasingly less mobile Carrick (if that's possible) could do with a stint on the bench as well. I can only blame Jones so much for his poor performance; he's clearly not a full-back and Moyes insistence on playing him there says more about manager than it does player.

Nalz

Paul Tergat wrote: »

If they performed as they are capable of doing then they certainly can beat WBA at home. The only player I dont think is good enough is Buttner (Anderson possibly too) but the rest of that team is

It's becoming rather obvious imo that Rio is passed it and is therefore not capable of reaching anywhere near what he could in terms of form and presence

madcabbage

Loving Paddy Powers campaign on Moyes! :pac:

Nalz

edgecutter wrote: »

This team looks so poor right now and I believe it is not only down to a change of management, but also down to the change of the coaching staff. Why did Moyes get rid of a successful coaching staff that knew the team so well?

apparently he wanted to keep Rene

Paul Tergat

Trilla wrote: »

It's becoming rather obvious imo that Rio is passed it and is therefore not capable of reaching anywhere near what he could in terms of form and presence

Possibly but we are talking about playing at home against a team who have had a pretty meh start to the season. Again though, wasnt hearing these complaints before KO

Your Airbag

Ok so it was bad result but as it stands the top EPL team is only one point further ahead then when we started, lets hope Swansea can beat Arsenal.

Moyes made some strange choices today again

A lot of people were happy with the team selection regarding the front four but it was a weak side with one eye on Wednesday nights UCL game and it cost us.

Buttner, Rio, Evans and Jones being our defense was the problem as well as Ando giving no defensive cover.

Why was Vidic out? We look very open without him. Buttner should only play carling cup games imo. He is not even Palace qaulity let alone UTD. Rio looks like he is struggling, having Vidic beside him is a must if he is to start so may games.

Ando was poor again. For West Broms second goal he stepped out of midfeild to close down a player that Nani was marking leaving a big gap. The ball was simply passed into midfeild and West Brom were now running at our back four, they worked a one two and scored. Poor positioning and awareness. He is a Carling Cup player also.

Carrick seems to be off form. He hasn't picked up his form yet which is a worry because without him we have zero creativity in the middle and he is in his thirties and doesn't offer much creative cover.

Why was Kag off at half time? maybe he took knock. Fellaini came on when we went 1-2 down and RVP when we equalised. Both should have come on at 0-1 or half time.

In Summary

We have lost three games out of our opening 6. It has not been good enough but we are not out of it yet. Moyes doesn't seem to be able to get as much out of the team as Fergie did. We look very lacking in the middle and relying on width much more than before which teams know and set out to stop this. Fellaini offers some cover and a little attacking threat but not much creativity from the middle yet.

We have too many sub par players in the squad getting game time in important matches. Young, Ando, Buttner. We have too many players out of form. Valenica, Carrick, Rio, Jones.

The plus points were Nani and Januzaj (although he shoot twice when the cut back was the better option, his inexperience showed there)

Moyes lacks ideas when things are not going well. Lets hope he can turn it around

Hank Scorpio

edgecutter wrote: »

This team looks so poor right now and I believe it is not only down to a change of management, but also down to the change of the coaching staff. Why did Moyes get rid of a successful coaching staff that knew the team so well?

I agree with this, I remember seeing Phil Neville on the bench during the Man City defeat and his body language just looked so clueless. It`ll take time but getting rid of Meulensteen was a bad decision imo

Nalz

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Again though, wasnt hearing these complaints before KO

Weren't people concerned about Rio even before the City game?

I for one was

Trilla wrote: »

Anyone worried about Rio v City this weekend?

nuxxx wrote: »

but getting rid of Meulensteen was a bad decision imo

I read somewhere that he tried to keep him

Headshot

Has Moyes had his interview yet?

bad2dabone

I'm tired of all this anti moyes talk, he's making lots of people really happy.

edgecutter

Trilla wrote: »

apparently he wanted to keep Rene

Losing Rene was always going to happen, but what about the whole staff he felt were not for him, as he wanted to 'stamp his mark on the team'.

Lord TSC

Really disappointed with today. For all the problems over the last few games, at least I convinced myself that they were against better or hungrier teams. It never even crossed my mind that we'd struggle against West Brom today, let alone lose, AND to such poor goals (defensibly; as WB fans, I'd think they were magnificent).

Was thrilled Hernandez, Kagawa and Nani got starts, and in the first half, they looked dangerous, even if they weren't capitalizing on chances. Januzaj also impressed mostly in the second half, despite some rookie mistakes. Rooney's goal was good but I felt the rest of his play was lacking something. Anderson at least showed glimpses of a type of player we need. RVP may as well have not been on the field for the half hour. Butner is a grand squad player, so don't have much problems with him today; if we have a backup LB, today IS the game he should be playing.

For me, 100% of the blame is on Moyes today though. Rio should have been given a rest. The subs were reactionary in the worst way for me; two of them (RVP and Fellaini) were panic subs. Can't wait to hear why Kagawa got sent off.

Listen, I don't want to be a club who shifts managers easily. But nor do I want to just persevere because we don't want to be one of those clubs too. Moyes needs to start winning games and quickly though. I don't know what he can do though; it's not that we've a load of injuries, or he's not playing players. And the only big redeemer right now is Chelsea and City are having equally ***** starts as well.

Devil08

Moyes has the next 5 PL games to get his finger out and put things right.
He needs maximum points from the next 5! Another loss in the next few games and we are deep in the sh!t. Very early in the season now to be playing catch up.

We havnt had a world class team since Ronaldo left. We are finally being found out. SAF got the best out of mediocre players that Moyes isnt capable of doing.

West Brom played 120 mins during the week and still managed to put out a squad to beat Utd.

Its looking bleak and there is no point sugar coating it.

Paul Tergat

Trilla wrote: »

Weren't people concerned about Rio even before the City game?

I for one was






I read somewhere that he tried to keep him

I've been quite clear to say that the team put out is good enough to beat WBA at home.

Paul Tergat

Headshot wrote: »

Has Moyes had his interview yet?

Setanta Sports have called Geoff Shreeves to interview him!

Nalz

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I've been quite clear to say that the team put out is good enough to beat WBA at home.

Yep you were, I replied as you said you didn't hear those complaints prior to KO. I'm saying I have and have been concerned about Rio all season.

I think himself, Ando, Buttner, Jones out of position and Carrick slightly out of form was all too much. Still on another day may have been enough, but I'm a little shocked at the team selected, I thought Moyes would have played it safe with playing our best XI possible (Evra, Fellaini, Vidic, Rafael etc) for his own sake.

Ah well

Giggsy11

Poor performance and no excuses for not losing at home to WBA.

Not sure why Rio starts almost every game. Smalling put a MOTM performance against Liverpool but he was not even on bench and the player who was awful this season starts. The CB pair was poor last season, we conceded many goals with Rio and Evans as CBs as the both **** in their pants when they play physical striker, Moyes knows Anichibe well than any manager but still he plays 2 of our physically poorest players as CBs. That was really bad selection.

Jones as RB is a big NO. He offers absolutely nothing going forward. Not sure what happened to Fabio but at least Valencia offers lot more than Jones.

Oh Rio was at fault for both goals and his mobility is nothing but a joke, so is his passing taking ages to pass and the player who receives the pass will be under pressure everytime.

Nani was the only positive from the game, he was superb and should have had at least 3 assists.

scudzilla

I'm really getting worried for us now, the way it's going our title challenge could be well and truly over by December.

We have a manager who's selections/tactics are just batshit crazy, too many of our key players are underperforming/passed it and we have a CEO who seems clueless in transfers.

Am i happy with Moyes? No

Do i want him out? No, we've got to give him a chance cos i really don't want us going down the manager a season joke like Chelski.

Rubber_Soul

edgecutter wrote: »

This team looks so poor right now and I believe it is not only down to a change of management, but also down to the change of the coaching staff. Why did Moyes get rid of a successful coaching staff that knew the team so well?

I think you may be correct here to an extent. We've been functional and effective rather than exciting for a few years now but there's just been so many poor individual performances so far this season. Tactically I think we've generally been ok so I'm inclined to think it's the coaching.

There's always going to be a transitional period when new coaches implement new training methods but today has me pretty concerned. I know Moyes and his staff were known for their focus on double fitness sessions and really high intensity stuff at Everton and from the odd interview here and there it seems like they've brought that over to Utd and perhaps the players are simply struggling to adapt to it. Now it could be just a complete coincidence that RVP has picked up 2 injuries so far when he's been injury free for so long, but the fact that the careful managing of Rio that we've seen over the last few years seems to have gone completely out the window has me doubtful that's the case. It's mind boggling that he has started so many games and I really do think that's what is causing his performances to be so dire.

KH25

Rio himself said he had to manage his back, so why all of a sudden is he 'capable' of playing so many games in a row? Moyes needs to cop the fcuk on and stop picking him. We have 3 perfectly good options to use (not including Vidic).

Paul Tergat

Trilla wrote: »

Yep you were, I replied as you said you didn't hear those complaints prior to KO. I'm saying I have and have been concerned about Rio all season.

Ah yeah I get that, hes not been good but again it should be one of the more comfortable games we will have this season.

Trilla wrote: »

I don't think himself, Ando, Buttner, Jones out of position and Carrick slightly out of form was all too much. I'm a little shocked at the team selected, I thought Moyes would have played it safe with playing our best XI possible (Evra, Fellaini, Vidic, Rafael etc) for his own sake.

I think he has an eye on Europe as well and we have a lot of players either not 100%, coming back from injuries etc so shuffling the squad is going to be needed. I just have to repeat, imo and a lot of posters in the match thread felt it was a decent team and one which should be beating WBA at home. I think he has to play Carrick - there would have been all sorts of complaints if he didnt. Buttner and possibly Ando complaints maybe fair enough

Trilla wrote: »

Ah well

Yeah pretty much :mad:

Giggsy11

KH25 wrote: »

Rio himself said he had to manage his back, so why all of a sudden is he 'capable' of playing so many games in a row? Moyes needs to cop the fcuk on and stop picking him. We have 3 perfectly good options to use (not including Vidic).

Forget about managing his fitness, he should be played only when other CBs are injured. Rio was good last season but the start to his season has been awful. We have excellent young CBs and its about time we look for the future by playing Smalling/Evans with Vidic and also Jones.

J. Marston

Devil08 wrote: »

Moyes has the next 5 PL games to get his finger out and put things right.
He needs maximum points from the next 5! Another loss in the next few games and we are deep in the sh!t. Very early in the season now to be playing catch up.

We havnt had a world class team since Ronaldo left. We are finally being found out. SAF got the best out of mediocre players that Moyes isnt capable of doing.

West Brom played 120 mins during the week and still managed to put out a squad to beat Utd.

Its looking bleak and there is no point sugar coating it.

That run needed to start today, ahead of the Arsenal game. We fell at the first hurdle, couldn't even manage a draw.

SherlockWatson

The state of some fans this year is embarrassing, its like some people don't realise we've lost the best manager to ever manage in the premiership, possibly the world.

We've also lost Gill, there's a lot of changes this year, and Moyes needs time to build his own team, losing games isn't something new, we might not have all been happy with Moyes as a selection, but we can either get behind him and give him a chance or else we can become a laughing stock like Chelsea with a new manager for every game.



I know which one I'd prefer.

Danye

What are people's expectations now for our season?

Have they changed since the start of the season? Is it too early to be changing expectation levels?

Can anybody realistically see us challenging for the major honours?

Lord TSC

But there's another possibility as well; that we have chosen the wrong guy, but out of fear of being mocked, we just close our eyes and pretend everything is ok. That's as dangerous, imo, as sacking him too quickly.

Kerrydude1981

Its not as bad as the time we lost to Newcastle 5 nil,Southampton 6-3,Chelase 2-1 and as well as losing two CL games as well all in the same month back in the 96/97

Still ended up winning the league.

Doubt that will happen now,all we can do is sit tight on this rollercoaster.

Rubber_Soul

SherlockWatson wrote: »

The state of some fans this year is embarrassing, its like some people don't realise we've lost the best manager to ever manage in the premiership, possibly the world.

We've also lost Gill, there's a lot of changes this year, and Moyes needs time to build his own team, losing games isn't something new, we might not have all been happy with Moyes as a selection, but we can either get behind him and give him a chance or else we can become a laughing stock like Chelsea with a new manager for every game.



I know which one I'd prefer.

Sad to hear a few boos at FT today, one thing to bitch and grumble on forums and twitter but to actually boo the side off is another thing entirely. Seems some of our fans have very short memories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lT68Fx11ocw#t=147

Rayne Wooney

We have Sunderland, Southampton Stoke and Fulham before the Arsenal game along with 3 champions league games.

I just can't see us taking 12 points from those games 4 games, without some kind of miraculous change.

J. Marston

Danye wrote: »

What are people's expectations now for our season?

Have they changed since the start of the season? Is it too early to be changing expectation levels?

Can anybody realistically see us challenging for the major honours?

We'll be doing well to make top four. We're fecking crap, in all honesty.

Look at the last few games. What's the teams plan? There is none. Today, for instance, Nani swung in a few great crosses but we didn't score so the players were like "What now?"

Clueless.

Hank Scorpio

Sort out the defensive problems and things will be looking much better. Nani rvp rooney all firing will beat teams alone once we're not leaking goals at the back. The lack of creativity is still my biggest worry, I was really excited when Fellaini signed but now I'm starting to think I was being premature in my expectations, he's not the player we needed and I remember seeing alot of other posters saying that. Moyes has said recently we`ll need some signings in January. Top 3 finish has to be the priority this season

Mr.Prodston

Can people take a deep breath and just calm down.

Are things good? No. Are there plenty of concerning issues? Yes. Do we need to go into hyperbole criticising everything? No.

I'm worried but Moyes has said himself that things aren't exactly how he wants them either. I'm concerned that Rio played today when Vidic didn't and that Fellaini didn't start but getting worked up isn't good for anyone. We're Manchester United and we've overcome a lot worse than 2 defeats in a week that also included beating Liverpool.

Just out of interest, what does "give him a season before judging him" mean exactly? Say come January yous are sitting 7th, still wait and see at that stage?

SherlockWatson

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But there's another possibility as well; that we have chosen the wrong guy, but out of fear of being mocked, we just close our eyes and pretend everything is ok. That's as dangerous, imo, as sacking him too quickly.

I agree to a point, but if anyone thinks six games into a season is a logical time to sack a manager, then I have to disagree vehemently.

J. Marston wrote: »

We'll be doing well to make top four. We're fecking crap, in all honesty.

Look at the last few games. What's the teams plan? There is none. Today, for instance, Nani swung in a few great crosses but we didn't score so the players were like "What now?"

Clueless.

It'll take time for them all to get used to Moyes system, there was always going to be teething problems, if we finish top four this year and have a solid base to build on for next year I will be happy.

Pj!

You rest some top names and play some squad players in the home games against weaker teams. That's how it has always worked. If you win, fine. If you lose - poor team selection.

tallaghtmick

So guys Garay a bad option now :pac:

2moreMinutes

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just out of interest, what does "give him a season before judging him" mean exactly? Say come January yous are sitting 7th, still wait and see at that stage?

I say yes, we wait and see. Anyone who doesn't is a spoilt brat imo.

He needs a few transfer windows to build the team he wants. Unfortunately this past summer kinda went tits up for one reason or another but that doesn't mean we all turn into Chelsea fans and start booing or demanding a new manager every time we hit a bad patch.

Quandary

Danye wrote: »

What are people's expectations now for our season?

Have they changed since the start of the season? Is it too early to be changing expectation levels?

Can anybody realistically see us challenging for the major honours?

Before the season started I said 3rd was probably the highest we would finish. I made this assertion purely based on the fact that the transition to Moyes from Fergie would not be seamless and we would drop more points while Moyes was figuring out how to get the best out of the players.

I still stand by that. I think we'll finish 3rd, do ok in the champs league and possibly win a cup.

If Moyes manages that then I'll be happy with his first season and have hopes of a real challenge for the title the next year(as long as he gets his summer transfers right).

If he has a disaster of a season and Utd finish outside the champs league then I think he should be sacked. If it came to that I would be shocked though.

2moreMinutes

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I say yes, we wait and see. Anyone who doesn't is a spoilt brat imo.

There's no way you can see it being justified no matter the result?

He needs a few transfer windows to build the team he wants. Unfortunately this past summer kinda went tits up for one reason or another but that doesn't mean we all turn into Chelsea fans and start booing or demanding a new manager every time we hit a bad patch.

A few transfer windows? So no matter what he should be there at the start of next season?

GSPfan

Played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3.

Thats an awful stat at any time of the season. Its not sackable but its worrying.

Danye

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Moyes has said himself that things aren't exactly how he wants them either.

I wonder what Moyes means by this?

The other question I would have is, why as the manager, has he not got things as he wants??

tallaghtmick

GSPfan wrote: »

Played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3.

Thats an awful stat at any time of the season. Its not sackable but its worrying.

Its scary

Lord TSC

SherlockWatson wrote: »

I agree to a point, but if anyone thinks six games into a season is a logical time to sack a manager, then I have to disagree vehemently.

I've yet to see anyone argue he should be sacked now. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows it's way to early.

BUT that doesn't mean we have to ignore a trend developing, and it doesn't mean people can't voice their fears, especially when they are fears which they had months ago and which are seemingly coming true.

Rayne Wooney

Did Moyes give an interview?

Pj!

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Did Moyes give an interview?

"We did not defend well at all but we didn't attack well either today. We had a lot of the ball in the first half but didn't make the most of it. We had one or two chances but just didn't take them," Moyes said.

"No worries about the crowd because it was great. The stadium in mid-week was in great voice. People come here expecting us to play well but we didn't play well. We tried to pick it up in the second half but we got done by it as well.

"You're always going to have bad results. It is how you deal with them. There are lots of games to come and it's about how you deal with them, so we look forward to them."

Dicky Pride

If David Moyes was a proven class manager with the trophies in the bag to back him up I would understand why people are calling defending him and calling for patience. But he's not. He has won nothing and proven nothing. Except that he is in way over his depth.

The type of man that ferguson is he was never going to recommend a manager who was even close to filling his boots.

Yes, man utd are in a transition period, but Moyes inherited a team that won the league by 11 points, there are other clubs that would laugh at that so called transition period.

Phil Neville and Ryan giggs are couches. Moyes is the manager. Something has gone horribly wrong.