Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Dicky Pride

SherlockWatson wrote: »

There is an absolutely massive difference between thinking that Moyes is the man for the job, and thinking that Fergie intentionally sabotaged the club by picking a manager that he thought wouldn't be up for it?


I clearly said that I don't think Fergie intentionally sabotaged the club like you believe, and you've somehow linked that to me saying that Moyes is the perfect man?


TIP: Stick to having your own opinions, and stop trying to voice both mine and Pauls opinion, as you clearly have massive problems comprehending English.

lol. such arrogance. Where did I say that Ferguson tried to sabotage the club, that's a big leap, even for someone as stupid as you.

And also, for the poster above, I'm not saying we should sack Moyes now that would make the club look incredibly foolish. We're stuck with him for at least this season.

Paul Tergat

SherlockWatson wrote: »

TIP: Stick to having your own opinions, and stop trying to voice both mine and Pauls opinion, as you clearly have massive problems comprehending English.

I think and hope a lot of the reaction from people is in frustration cause yeah we've been ****e.

BloodBath

To be honest I think moyes has now put himself in a situation where if he loses the next league game he will get the sack.

He needs to win the next 4 on the trot.

Paul Tergat

Dicky Pride wrote: »

The type of man that ferguson is he was never going to recommend a manager who was even close to filling his boots.

Dicky Pride wrote: »

lol. such arrogance. Where did I say that Ferguson tried to sabotage the club, that's a big leap, even for someone as stupid as you.

What did you mean by the first quote?

Dicky Pride wrote: »

And also, for the poster above, I'm not saying we should sack Moyes now that would make the club look incredibly foolish. We're stuck with him for at least this season.

So dont want us to sack him but because you didnt like the appointment you aren't going to give him a chance?

Dicky Pride

A final thought before I leave this thread for the evening. Ferguson recommended, or most probably, hired a ready made replacement for himself. Someone who shares a lot of his flaws, but unfortunately none of the qualities that made him the legend that he was. One of the most worrying traits that Moyes shares with Sir Alex is stubbornness. Moyes believes now that he is the man to lead Manchester United, and sure why wouldn't he? Sir Alex told him he was. As a result he won't listen to ex players and pundits in the media and he certainly won't listen to the fans. I think some Man Utd fans need to take a listen to some Everton fans and hear what they have to say about Moyes, both good and bad.

This whole idea that because he was picked by Ferguson then he must be the man, is nothing short of ridiculous.

SherlockWatson

Dicky Pride wrote: »

lol. such arrogance. Where did I say that Ferguson tried to sabotage the club,

You clearly implied below that you believe Fergie has picked a substandard replacement as to not have his legacy challenged, thus sabotaging the club intentionally for personal gain.

Dicky Pride wrote: »

The type of man that ferguson is he was never going to recommend a manager who was even close to filling his boots.

Dicky Pride wrote: »

that's a big leap, even for someone as stupid as you.

If you're going to have a discussion with adults, please put on your big boy pants and leave the name calling and personal insults at the door, it does nothing to further your argument, and just makes you look like a child incapable of having a discussion, each to their own.

Dicky Pride

Paul Tergat wrote: »

What did you mean by the first quote?



So dont want us to sack him but because you didnt like the appointment you aren't going to give him a chance?

Well we can't sack him...it's as simple as that. This is one of those situations where I really want to be proven wrong. I would love to come into this thread one day and see you calling me out...

Paul Tergat

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Well we can't sack him...it's as simple as that. This is one of those situations where I really want to be proven wrong. I would love to come into this thread one day and see you calling me out...

And not to be a dick but i hope so too (i wont pick someone out though) cause itll mean we are doing well.

The bit on your quote about Fergie not picking someone who was even close to filling his boots?

Lord TSC

I know it's not going to be a popular question, but I do feel it's relevant to the topic at hand.

Realistically, who would we be able to get to replace Moyes? (STRESS: This is not me saying he should be sacked, I want him sacked or anything like that. Just the next logical question in the discussion at hand).

Jose is no longer an option. Pep is gone too. Realistically, no big name manager who is better than Moyes will want to shift clubs mid-season. The likes of Klopp or AVB won't be leaving the clubs they are at where they are building their legacy.

There were options last summer, but those options seem drastically reduced now if we had to go down that route...

The_Kew_Tour

Christ lads can we at least get to Christmas before the real panic button is hit?

bad bad defeat today I understand but we need to be behind him, not on his back.

Chagan

I think what will go a long way to helping things is picking our strongest team. First we had Giggs in CM, then Young and Valencia's reign of mediocrity out wide and today an odd choice of defenders.

Resting players in September doesn't really make sense to me. Why not play our first eleven, get a lead and then make changes if Moyes wants to keep players fresh for midweek?

SirDelboy18

Ironically enough was chatting to Mike Phelan today, saw him near Setanta offices.

J. Marston

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Christ lads can we at least get to Christmas before the real panic button is hit?

bad bad defeat today I understand but we need to be behind him, not on his back.

We're going into October and we have six points from seven games, since the first game of the season against Swansea we've only won one league match and are sitting in 12th position (could be lower by Monday night).

Panic is totally justified.

Mitch Connor

BloodBath wrote: »

To be honest I think moyes has now put himself in a situation where if he loses the next league game he will get the sack.

He needs to win the next 4 on the trot.

Not a chance of it.

Won't be sacked this season.

SherlockWatson

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Ironically enough was chatting to Mike Phelan today, saw him near Setanta offices.

Did he just keep nodding at you saying Yes, or was it a proper conversation? :P

wonderfullife

Does anyone think Fergie COULD sit in the stands and watch his beloved club finish 5th or 6th this season?

I'm not one for sacking managers willy nilly but on a serious level if, by March, United are struggling for the top 4 i could definitely see a return of the Ferg.

Every character trait he has demonstrated over 25 years indicates he loves the club too much to let it go to pot overnight. He'd do a Sir Matt and return for a couple of seasons health permitting.

Also what is Moyes waffling on about needing to rebuild and reshape the squad a la Everton 10 years ago? He inherited the champions of England who won the league in a canter.........i honestly think he's showing so far he's well out of his depth. Shambolic transfer window, shambolic start to the season as well.

This talk he's been coming out with all week is nonsensical......."it'll get worse before it gets better"???? WTF!! He has the champions squad and had a transfer window to add to it if he wanted/wasn't so inept......

Backstreet Moyes

In fairness today we turned up with two championship standard full backs and an out of form Ferdinand. Really was baffling.

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

Does anyone think Fergie COULD sit in the stands and watch his beloved club finish 5th or 6th this season?

I'm not one for sacking managers willy nilly but on a serious level if, by March, United are struggling for the top 4 i could definitely see a return of the Ferg.

Not a hope in hell imo, why would he risk tarnishing his legacy

gosplan

Suck it up United fans!!

It's a new manager. It takes time, you look ****, you drop points. Just like City, Chelsea and everyone else.

Big deal

The_Kew_Tour

J. Marston wrote: »

We're going into October and we have six points from seven games, since the first game of the season against Swansea we've only won one league match and are sitting in 12th position (could be lower by Monday night).

Panic is totally justified.

The biggest problem has been inconsistency.

You see the bottom line is that we were no better under Fergie for many games, but Fergie himself made the difference.

These performances have been nothing new. In fact we have played quite well in few games under Moyes, but we have been punished more now for mistakes.

wonderfullife

nuxxx wrote: »

Not a hope in hell imo, why would he risk tarnishing his legacy

His legacy is set in stone and un-tarnishable.

Not to mention he's an absolute genius manager and would have the utmost confidence in himself to go straight back in and win the league 1st season back.

Lord TSC

J. Marston wrote: »

We're going into October and we have six points from seven games, since the first game of the season against Swansea we've only won one league match and are sitting in 12th position (could be lower by Monday night).

Panic is totally justified.

Add to that the fact we've gone, what, five games without a goal from open play? If we lost Rooney and his free kicks/corners right now, we'd be in even worse trouble

I don't think Fergie should even be on our minds though; he's gone and we need to find the way to get over that. Be it Moyes or anyone else, we have to live up to the fact he's gone.

ankles

I supported Moyes appointment, but my worry is this. What does the manager bring?

Team selection - Moyes has made so many mistakes that you can't count them
Coaching - Turfed out an entire league winning coaching team and replaced them with a mid table team with no experience
Transfers - No real chance yet but the end of the transfer window did not bode well
Tactics - We seem to be playing a mixture of pushing full backs on and direct football. Creativity has ebbed away completely under Moyes, witness the absence of goals from play
Motivation - Team confidence has ebbed away. Where was the old United coming forward in waves today looking for an equaliser. We pushed the ball around the back and then gave it to an out of position Jones who invariably lost it. No passion at all.

I never thought I would be this disappointed so early in the season. I certainly believe in giving managers a chance and United show the benefits of this, but Moyes is getting so much wrong right now that I am beginning to believe we have backed the wrong horse. Sticking it out through thick and thin is admirable , but stubbornness when it's not right just gets you deeper in trouble.

Moyes is using up his credit fast. the days of being given a few years to put your mark on a team are long gone. He will get a full season no doubt but unless he improves in all the areas he's failing in at the moment that will be it.

titan18

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know it's not going to be a popular question, but I do feel it's relevant to the topic at hand.

Realistically, who would we be able to get to replace Moyes? (STRESS: This is not me saying he should be sacked, I want him sacked or anything like that. Just the next logical question in the discussion at hand).

Jose is no longer an option. Pep is gone too. Realistically, no big name manager who is better than Moyes will want to shift clubs mid-season. The likes of Klopp or AVB won't be leaving the clubs they are at where they are building their legacy.

There were options last summer, but those options seem drastically reduced now if we had to go down that route...

Only one I can think of is Hiddink tbh. Heynckes wants a year off, and is quite old anyway, but he'd be another option.

IvySlayer

Ferguson won't allow him to be sacked so early, but ffs Moyes stop thinking you're still at Everton

BloodBath

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know it's not going to be a popular question, but I do feel it's relevant to the topic at hand.

Realistically, who would we be able to get to replace Moyes? (STRESS: This is not me saying he should be sacked, I want him sacked or anything like that. Just the next logical question in the discussion at hand).

Jose is no longer an option. Pep is gone too. Realistically, no big name manager who is better than Moyes will want to shift clubs mid-season. The likes of Klopp or AVB won't be leaving the clubs they are at where they are building their legacy.

There were options last summer, but those options seem drastically reduced now if we had to go down that route...

I hear Trapattoni is looking for a job

wonderfullife

Is there any possibility Fergie was against his successor being the Hiddink/Mourinho type (caliber wise) as those types may have took issue with him remaining a close part of the set-up? I couldn't see the likes of Hiddink being overly happy with Fergies shadow looming from the Directors box.

BloodBath

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Not a chance of it.

Won't be sacked this season.

Bull****. If we continue doing as badly in October as we did in September I can guarantee you he will be shown the door when all of the media and fans are on his back.

Yes we were told to get behind him but he's making that very hard with his team selections and performances. How can he not see things your average Joe can see?

Ulysses Gaze

titan18 wrote: »

Only one I can think of is Hiddink tbh. Heynckes wants a year off, and is quite old anyway, but he'd be another option.

Fabio Capello would be a good short term option.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Posters who reckon Moyes will be sacked before Christmas obviously don`t understand what makes United different from most of our rivals..Today was pretty shocking,but now is the time to get behind the manager.He`s clearly struggling but we knew that was always a possibility.Pellegrini and Jose are hardly setting the world alight,and it`s only a matter of time before we see Wenger`s early season optimism turn to dust..Moyes ain`t going anywhere,we`re not Chelsea ffs.

Will I Amnt

wonderfullife wrote: »

Is there any possibility Fergie was against his successor being the Hiddink/Mourinho type (caliber wise) as those types may have took issue with him remaining a close part of the set-up? I couldn't see the likes of Hiddink being overly happy with Fergies shadow looming from the Directors box.

Why??
That's a bizarre statement. What the f**k can he do from up there?

Dicky Pride

Ezequiel Wonderful Steeple wrote: »

Posters who reckon Moyes will be sacked before Christmas obviously don`t understand what makes United different from most of our rivals..Today was pretty shocking,but now is the time to get behind the manager.He`s clearly struggling but we knew that was always a possibility.Pellegrini and Jose are hardly setting the world alight,and it`s only a matter of time before we see Wenger`s early season optimism turn to dust..Moyes ain`t going anywhere,we`re not Chelsea ffs.

Explain this to me please. What makes us different from most of our rivals?

titan18

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Fabio Capello would be a good short term option.

I was only going with managers who are unemployed atm, but a good few international managers would be available as a caretaker basis I suppose. Hitzfeld, Terim and maybe Van Gaal could be similar options

Headshot

There is only one man that can bring change to utd, can finally get us back to playing some great stuff again

Klopp is the only man who can take over utd

Timmyctc

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Explain this to me please. What makes us different from most of our rivals?

When our manager does shíte we dont sack them. We persist with mediocrity :pac:

Will I Amnt

Talking about a new manager at the end of September :rolleyes:
Unbelievable.

Headshot

I was actually talking about him when saf retired....

SlickRic

IvySlayer wrote: »

Ferguson won't allow him to be sacked so early, but ffs Moyes stop thinking you're still at Everton

this is the issue IMO.

the football is far too pragmatic. there seems to be no freedom of movement or thought, or any fluidity in the tactical instructions. it looks as though players are thinking about everything they're doing - as if they've been over-instructed or something.

of course, the argument is also valid that the players are simply getting used to a new manager. that's fine.

what i can't understand is how players can all of a sudden forget how to attack or play quickly. Moyes isn't capable of knocking that knowledge and skill out of them. surely, if they're struggling, they should be able to remember what used to get them wins before and just revert to it? no?

as some other posters have alluded to though, you are now going through what every other club in the division has had to go through in terms of trying to get used to a new manager and give him time, even if results and performances are worrying.

fun, isn't it?

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Timmyctc wrote: »

When our manager does shíte we dont sack them. We persist with mediocrity :pac:

mediocrity is what the united board endured for four years between 1986-1990-we all know what followed..

titan18

Headshot wrote: »

There is only one man that can bring change to utd, can finally get us back to playing some great stuff again

Klopp is the only man who can take over utd

Definitely, although Diego Simeone would be a good appointment, but anyone like that wouldn't take over in the middle of the season.

Dicky Pride

Ezequiel Wonderful Steeple wrote: »

mediocrity is what the united board endured for four years between 1986-1990-we all know what followed..

And you think that board is still there today?

Headshot

Ezequiel Wonderful Steeple wrote: »

mediocrity is what the united board endured for four years between 1986-1990-we all know what followed..

You fail to see how times have changed, gone are the days of giving a manager time rightly or wrongly. Todays board want results and line their pockets with commercial money which requires the team to perform well

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Dicky Pride wrote: »

And you think that board is still there today?

I`d like to think that the club is a bit too classy to dump a manager 3 months after they offered him a 5 year deal.

Lord TSC

Fergie also didn't inherit the team Moyes did. Always going to be more expected of Moyes than was of Fergie back then.

Mr.Micro

IvySlayer wrote: »

Ferguson won't allow him to be sacked so early, but ffs Moyes stop thinking you're still at Everton

That is about the sum of it. Far too defensive. The players are to blame as well. Moyes will come good. There has to be a period of considerable adjustment after Ferguson, mavbe even a season. Some of the players on today are not good enough, and those were inherited, so Moyes can only use what he has got. The man is between a rock and a hard place.

TheTownie

Headshot wrote: »

You fail to see how times have changed, gone are the days of giving a manager time rightly or wrongly. Todays board want results and line their pockets with commercial money which requires the team to perform well

Don't forget though Utd's financial forecasts for this year are based on team finishing third in the league and QF in the cups.

Timmyctc

Thing I'm worried about is Rooney is again showing why he is one of the very best in the world and we need to keep him. Unfortunately if we're playing mediocre football every week and are occupying a mediocre position in the table it'll be harder and harder to keep him.

Paul Tergat

TheTownie wrote: »

Don't forget though Utd's financial forecasts for this year are based on team finishing third in the league and QF in the cups.

to be fair to the board thats not an unrealistic target

Paul Tergat

Timmyctc wrote: »

Thing I'm worried about is Rooney is again showing why he is one of the very best in the world and we need to keep him. Unfortunately if we're playing mediocre football every week and are occupying a mediocre position in the table it'll be harder and harder to keep him.

we cant win with him can we?

Rayne Wooney

There's nothing I'd like more than to look back in 5 years and say how wrong were we doubting Moyes at the start, but massive changes need to be brought in, the biggest one being the way we play, it's turning into a chore watching 90 minutes of United it really is.