Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Timmyctc

Paul Tergat wrote: »

we cant win with him can we?

One player does not a team make. If Moyes doesn't get his end right then no matter how good Roo plays we'll be struggling.

Nalz

One another thing that bugs me is how Moyes is in the press..his comments are weak and it surprises me. His comments during the transfer window and most recently constantly using phrases like 'maybe' 'I think' 'I'm hopeful' 'we will try' etc.

It's the least of our worries I know but it does annoy me a bit.

This guy isn't an idiot or a bad manager, so why all these liccle teething probs?

ThirdMan

The whole rationale behind Moyes' appointment was that he had long-term vision, and that he had proved his commitment over time. It would be a major embarrassment for the club if he was sacked, particularly in the first season. He should be given at least two seasons to make an impact; three if he can secure Champions League football.

Everyone has an opinion, and that's mine. But I cannot understand the people that are calling for his head already. After six league games? I'm just stunned. Talk about being spoiled bloody rotten over the years. Almost two decades of near constant success. Untold millions spent on some of the best players in the world. The emergence of some wonderful homegrown talent. You've seen all of that, and yet here you are throwing your toys out of the pram six games into a new era. Unbelievable.

Headshot

So if Moyes lets say (pretty much impossible really) doesnt get CL soccer. Shouldnt he get sacked?

titan18

ThirdMan wrote: »

The whole rationale behind Moyes' appointment was that he had long-term vision, and that he had proved his commitment over time. It would be a major embarrassment for the club if he was sacked, particularly in the first season. He should be given at least two seasons to make an impact; three if he can secure Champions League football.

Everyone has an opinion, and that's mine. But I cannot understand the people that are calling for his head already. After six league games? I'm just stunned. Talk about being spoiled bloody rotten over the years. Almost two decades of near constant success. Untold millions spent on some of the best players in the world. The emergence of some wonderful homegrown talent. You've seen all of that, and yet here you are throwing your toys out of the pram six games into a new era. Unbelievable.

Tbh, not qualifying for the Champions League would be a disaster. As things are going, I wouldn't be confident we'd finish top 4. Don't think anyone's calling for him to be sacked now, but if things keep going as they are, then there's no way he should get a second season.

SlickRic

also, Kagawa made his name at Dortmund as the lynchpin of a team who scored goals through the quickness of their transitioning in counter attacking.

a too pragmatic Utd will struggle to get the best out of him.

Winston Payne

Headshot wrote: »

So if Moyes lets say (pretty much impossible really) doesnt get CL soccer. Shouldnt he get sacked?

That would be grounds for sacking, yes.

skinny90

Just watching the highlights
Why was kagawa taken off?

Timmyctc

skinny90 wrote: »

Just watching the highlights
Why was kagawa taken off?

We were looking too likely to score. Had to go more defensive :pac:

BloodBath

mediocrity is what the united board endured for four years between 1986-1990-we all know what followed..

Ferguson didn't inherit a team that won the league at a canter the previous season. Moyes already has a strong squad there and had the whole summer to rectify any weaknesses but didn't.

That is about the sum of it. Far too defensive. The players are to blame as well. Moyes will come good. There has to be a period of considerable adjustment after Ferguson, mavbe even a season. Some of the players on today are not good enough, and those were inherited, so Moyes can only use what he has got. The man is between a rock and a hard place.

Moyes picked the team that played today in a must win game with better options on the bench or not on the squad sheet at all. He is entirely to blame.

The whole rationale behind Moyes' appointment was that he had long-term vision, and that he had proved his commitment over time. It would be a major embarrassment for the club if he was sacked, particularly in the first season. He should be given at least two seasons to make an impact; three if he can secure Champions League football.

It will be an even bigger embarrassment if we finish outside of the top 4. Not to mention the financial implications and the increased difficulty in bringing world class players to a club who aren't in the champions league.

Everyone has an opinion, and that's mine. But I cannot understand the people that are calling for his head already. After six league games? I'm just stunned. Talk about being spoiled bloody rotten over the years. Almost two decades of near constant success. Untold millions spent on some of the best players in the world. The emergence of some wonderful homegrown talent. You've seen all of that, and yet here you are throwing your toys out of the pram six games into a new era. Unbelievable.

Nobody is calling or his head. The warning signs are there though. So far his leadership has been piss poor. From summer transfers, to pre season friendlies, to his first 8 games in charge. He is obviously going to get more time to prove himself but another month as bad as this one will have many people calling for his head.

Soldie

skinny90 wrote: »

Just watching the highlights
Why was kagawa taken off?

Same reason Phil Jones was playing full-back.

ThirdMan

Headshot wrote: »

So if Moyes lets say (pretty much impossible really) doesnt get CL soccer. Shouldnt he get sacked?

Personally, I don't think he should be sacked within the first two seasons, unless something extreme happens (like finishing in the bottom half of the table).

If he manages to secure Champions League football each season then I think his contract should continue to run.

I was so proud to be a Man U fan when Moyes got the job. Talk about going against the grain. The obvious thing would have been to bring in a hired gun, and enter the managerial circus with every other club in Europe. But they went for an average Joe because he's earned a shot at the big time. If that doesn't embody the very spirit of sport then I don't know what does. Just think of the big ugly corporate monster that Manchester United has become, and yet when it came decision time it stuck by one of Ferguson's key principles: time.

Rayne Wooney

skinny90 wrote: »

Just watching the highlights
Why was kagawa taken off?

He gave the reason on twitter earlier I think


"Half time I interupt Mr Moyes team a talk. Kagawa stand up loud voice "ROBIN-BENCH-PERSIE!" Nobody laugh?

SON OF B*TCH! I back on bench "

ThirdMan

BloodBath wrote: »

It will be an even bigger embarrassment if we finish outside of the top 4.

It would be embarrassing if United finished 5th, considering the change that is going on within the club, and considering how much the surrounding clubs have strengthened? You are so wrong on this I don't even know where to begin.

keith16

BloodBath wrote: »

Ok I've been patient up until now

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word patience.

BloodBath

ThirdMan wrote: »

Personally, I don't he should be sacked within the first two seasons, unless something extreme happens (like finishing in the bottom half of the table).

If he manages to secure Champions League football each season then I think his contract should continue to run.

I was so proud to be a Man U fan when Moyes got the job. Talk about going against the grain. The obvious thing would have been to bring in a hired gun, and enter the managerial circus with every other club in Europe. But they went for an average Joe because he's earned a shot at the big time. If that doesn't embody the very spirit of sport then I don't know what does. Just think of the big ugly corporate monster that Manchester United has become, and yet when it came decision time it stuck by one of Ferguson's key principles: time.

What kind of attitude is this? We won the league by a country mile last season and you think the only way he should be sacked is if we finish in the bottom half? This is Manchester United we're talking about. Not Everton. Finishing outside of the top 4 would be a disaster for the club and if it's looking like we are heading that way half through the season he should be shown the door. We don't have time to wait for Moyes to learn the ropes. Do you want us to end up like Liverpool?

It would be embarrassing if United finished 5th, considering the change that is going on within the club, and considering how much the surrounding clubs have strengthened? You are so wrong on this I don't even know where to begin.

Yes it would. We won the league by a country mile last season. Why didn't we strengthen too?

Headshot

ThirdMan wrote: »

Personally, I don't he should be sacked within the first two seasons, unless something extreme happens (like finishing in the bottom half of the table).

If he manages to secure Champions League football each season then I think his contract should continue to run.

I was so proud to be a Man U fan when Moyes got the job. Talk about going against the grain. The obvious thing would have been to bring in a hired gun, and enter the managerial circus with every other club in Europe. But they went for an average Joe because he's earned a shot at the big time. If that doesn't embody the very spirit of sport then I don't know what does. Just think of the big ugly corporate monster that Manchester United has become, and yet when it came decision time it stuck by one of Ferguson's key principles: time.

You have very low standards, I certainly want more from utd manager than just getting CL soccer, I dont want utd to turn into Arsenal.

Why couldnt we get a manager that wasnt a "hired gun" or bring a "circus" to the club? For example if Pep or Klopp had this awful start, id be the first one to stand up and defend them and say "give them time, they are winners" but we dont have a winner now, he has no notion of winning trophies or handling WC players. I dont care about an average Joe getting a chance at the big time, this isnt FM.

Al Capwned

Poor poor performance today, but I'd love people to relax just a little.

I'm worried about the performances, and genuinely thought that the transition from Ferguson to Moyes was going to be a bit smoother. And being 12th after 6 games with only victories over Swansea and Palace is anything but encouraging.

Saying that, I firmly believe that with our strongest 11 on the field, we're good enough to beat anyone - And it's looking like that has to be like this now.

de gea,
rafael, vidic, evans, evra,
carrick, fellaini,
Nani, Rooney, Kagawa,
van Persie

Surely, some of the reason for the poor performances is coming from what people would have considered part of that best 11 not being available for whatever reason, as well as a lot of the players not being up to scratch?

BloodBath

Saying that, I firmly believe that with our strongest 11 on the field, we're good enough to beat anyone - And it's looking like that has to be like this now.

Now we just need a manager who knows how to pick the strongest 11.

Surely, some of the reason for the poor performances is coming from what people would have considered part of that best 11 not being available for whatever reason, as well as a lot of the players not being up to scratch?

Evra, Rafael and Vidic were available today. As was Cleverly and Fellaini for midfield. Moyes didn't pick his best squad yet again and lost yet again. If he picked the best team and we lost we could blame the players, tactics or any other number of things but when the manager doesn't pick the best squad in a must win game and we lose then it's solely on his shoulders.

Rayne Wooney

People seem to be using the Fergie's choice defence for Moyes, Fergie isn't infallible. If the results continue the way they are he has to go whether he was Fergie's choice or not.

Winston Payne

We're not making anything with Rooney off the front. He's not up to that role. He didn't open up West Brom once today. The best ball from that kind of area was supplied by Kagawa for Anderson.

ThirdMan

BloodBath wrote: »

What kind of attitude is this? We won the league by a country mile last season and you think the only way he should be sacked is if we finish in the bottom half?

Do you not realise how **** the league was last year. Did you not see how **** United were for large parts of it. If United do not improve, and if the competition actually turns up this year, then finishing well outside of all European places is a possibility. How can we call the EPL competitive and not believe that?

I was speaking very generally when referring to the bottom half of the table, because the midway point often neatly divides the 'bottom' teams from teams that are actually aspiring to something. But if all of the competition performs as well as they could, and United don't, then it will be extremely difficult.

NIMAN

Moyes will provide a season of no CL football for Utd, be it this year who knows, but he is showing already that he has the potential to take the club backwards.

Al Capwned

BloodBath wrote: »

Evra, Rafael and Vidic were available today. As was Cleverly and Fellaini for midfield. Moyes didn't pick his best squad yet again and lost yet again. I he picked the best team and we lost we could blame the players, tactics or any other number of things but when the manager doesn't pick the best squad in a must win game and we lose then it's solely on his shoulders.

Nah, the players must take their share of the blame today - I was more than happy (apart from maybe no Rafael) with the team before the game - We had players on the pitch that are good enough to beat West Brom. The manager cannot accept responsibility for players not performing.
For other things, yes without question, but not that.

There were too many below par performances up against a West Brom team that were very good to be fair to them.

IvySlayer

I don't think Moyes knows what his best 11 is yet. 6 games in he should have a clue by now.

His first transfer window he went for a creative midfielder and then signed Fellaini, hopefully next window he'll address it.

ThirdMan

Headshot wrote: »

You have very low standards

I don't. I just want Manchester United to hang onto what little of its identify it has left.

Sirsok

Due to being relocated to different seats today I noticed some odd behaviour today, some that is all to often duplicated on boards.... When the something bad happens due to a player or ref decision fans tend to jump on the chance to voice their concern...same if something glorious happens we all applaud it like we should....however when nothing is happening we fail to get together to rally around the team.

I brought my missus to her first game today and she asked me why the small section of west brom fans could be heard more so then the utd fans...I replied that these are hardcore fans that would travel anywhere to see their team she understood that point yet still notified me there was 70 thousand + united fans being outshone by west brom fans.

I was in the sound stand albeit at the opposite end of the stretford end so near the away section however the lack of support shown by most really ****in annoyed me, not one of them joined in on chants but were quick to begrudge the team if something happens.

Moyes is our manager like it or not, we should support him at games as if we dont the team suffers, if they suffer so do we.

Moyes played a fairly strong yet experimentive squad today which we all have been yearning for...he utilized the players at his disposal an it was strictly their fault we did not win anythin not moyes.

Moyes will work but united need to stand by him

BloodBath

He is taking the club backwards. Outside of the CL and cup wins there has been virtually nothing positive. We spent nearly 30m on Fellaini, a mediocre midfielder who has had 1 good season, when we could have got Ozil, one of the best attacking midfield playmakers in the world for 15m more.

Likewise it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that Cesc was never going to leave Barcelona unless they wanted him out and that we were wasting out time chasing him. Moyes and his staff have proven themselves to be not up to the standards on one of the top 3 biggest clubs in the world.

Nah, the players must take their share of the blame today - I was more than happy (apart from maybe no Rafael) with the team before the game - We had players on the pitch that are good enough to beat West Brom. The manager cannot accept responsibility for players not performing.
For other things, yes without question, but not that.

There were too many below par performances up against a West Brom team that were very good to be fair to them.

No. Rio has been terrible in every game so far this season. Moyes playing him in a must win game is beyond stupid. Jones is not a right back and is not good in that position. Again this is Moyes fault for playing him out of position. Buttner is not a patch on Evra so again this is Moyes fault. Anderson is by far our worst midfielder. Moyes should know this.

IvySlayer

Al Capwned wrote: »

Nah, the players must take their share of the blame today - I was more than happy (apart from maybe no Rafael) with the team before the game - We had players on the pitch that are good enough to beat West Brom. The manager cannot accept responsibility for players not performing.
For other things, yes without question, but not that.

There were too many below par performances up against a West Brom team that were very good to be fair to them.

Actually he can, if he can't motivate a title winning team , he shouldn't be at one.

The rare exception is AVB at Chelsea, too much player power there.

AVB didn't deserve to be sacked, neither does Moyes tbf

AVB is a young manager with a specific football philosophy, I dunno what to make of Moyes's Manchester yet.

Rayne Wooney

BloodBath wrote: »

He is taking the club backwards. Outside of the CL and cup wins there has been virtually nothing positive. We spent nearly 30m on Fellaini, a mediocre midfielder who has had 1 good season, when we could have got Ozil, one of the best attacking midfield playmakers in the world for 15m more.

Likewise it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that Cesc was never going to leave Barcelona unless they wanted him out and that we were wasting out time chasing him. Moyes and his staff have proven themselves to be not up to the standards on one of the top 3 biggest clubs in the world.

I, and a lot of others, believe Fabregas would have been sold at the right price. United's opening offer ruined any chances of us getting him. It was only a waste of time because United made it so.

Al Capwned

IvySlayer wrote: »

Actually he can, if he can't motivate a title winning team , he shouldn't be at one.

The rare exception is AVB at Chelsea, too much player power there.

AVB didn't deserve to be sacked, neither does Moyes tbf

Point taken, and I agree to a point. But the post I was replying to implied that players underperforming should be the sole responsibility of the manager because he's picked a less than full strength team. I couldn't disagree more with that.

The team he picked was good enough to beat West Brom. Don't think anyone can deny that. Players have to accept the majority of the blame for that.

Some of the decisions made by the manager during the game were baffling. He has to accept the blame for that.

Jimmy Iovine

It's refreshing to come on here and see some people praising Nani. I had to listen to some ****e about him from the people behind me.

First half - his crosses were fantastic.

Second half - had a very shaky period but came back into it and was the only player who looked like he could win the game on his own.

Was the disallowed goal the correct decision? Haven't had a chance to watch the replay yet.

What a waste it was bringing on van Persie. He never got a touch of the ball.

Fellaini didn't impress me at all. Won one ball a few seconds after coming on but didn't seem to do anything else.

Januzaj was good. I hope that the crowd are more patient with him than they are with Nani. I heard nothing but groans every time he got the ball. Along with Rooney, he was the only goal threat we had.

Pity Kagawa went off. Thought he had some nice touches and looked better than in recent weeks.

David Gill was at the match. I saw him afterwards and he didn't look like a happy chap, stating out onto the pitch for a good while.

I wouldn't mind if he came back and sorted out a few transfers for is :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

give him till Christmas at least.

surely we are bigger than this.

COYVB

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

People seem to be using the Fergie's choice defence for Moyes, Fergie isn't infallible. If the results continue the way they are he has to go whether he was Fergie's choice or not.

Fergie recommended Alex McLeish to villa. His judgment doesn't appear to be great for managers

Francie Barrett

All I can say is LOL @ all the United fans getting on the back of Moyes. The man is a proven Premier League manager and he needs time to put his stamp on the team. With what he's been given, he has done a very good job so far.

Al Capwned

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

give him till Christmas at least.

surely we are bigger than this.

End of season at the very least. Cannot be any shorter I think.

Horrible start, but I really believe that the club will not start making knee jerk decisions. Or at least I'd like to think so.

IvySlayer

Francie Barrett wrote: »

All I can say is LOL @ all the United fans getting on the back of Moyes. The man is a proven Premier League manager and he needs time to put his stamp on the team. With what he's been given, he has done a very good job so far.

Weren't you part of the vocal opposition of Hodgson at Liverpool :P

NIMAN

Moyes was a bad choice for me. Everton was his level (no offense Evertonians).

He will struggle to attract big name players from abroad as they won't know him. I know its very early but I do genuinely think he has the potential to take Utd to being a team that would not be title contenders each season. Maybe even turn them into a Liverpool? Who knows? They, Liverpool that is, have now reached the level where no CL means no big signings, means no CL and the circle grows. It might just happen at Utd.

Pj!

Trilla wrote: »

One another thing that bugs me is how Moyes is in the press..his comments are weak and it surprises me. His comments during the transfer window and most recently constantly using phrases like 'maybe' 'I think' 'I'm hopeful' 'we will try' etc.

It's the least of our worries I know but it does annoy me a bit.

This guy isn't an idiot or a bad manager, so why all these liccle teething probs?

I mentioned this a few months ago after his first few press conferences and thought it was very noticeable (the difference between them both).

eg.
Ask Moyes if the players will bounce back and he's likely to reply that he "hopes so."
Ask Fergie and it was always "Absolutely. There's no question about that. These players are winners.. etc. etc."

Sirsok

No blame on the terrible fans so no?

Dicky Pride

Sirsok wrote: »

No blame on the terrible fans so no?

Get out.

Dicky Pride

Francie Barrett wrote: »

All I can say is LOL @ all the United fans getting on the back of Moyes. The man is a proven Premier League manager and he needs time to put his stamp on the team. With what he's been given, he has done a very good job so far.

Proven how? Like I'm a proven human? Or proven in terms of success?

spiralism

Moyes is a good manager no doubt but he really has looked out of his depth. Granted, he was thrown straight into the fire but it's a worrying progression: We draw at home to a rival, lose away to a rival, get resoundingly thrashed away to a rival and lose at home to anichebe and the boys.

Not gonna say at all that we need rid of him, i believe its important to give him plenty of time and we're not that sort of club, though it has looked in recent weeks especially that he's overawed by the scope of things at the club in a way that Hodgson was at Liverpool for example.

IvySlayer

IvySlayer wrote: »

Weren't you part of the vocal opposition of Hodgson at Liverpool :P

Sometimes it's obvious things aren't working...

---

At least Moyes is trying to play football.

Following Fergie was always going to be ridiculous for any manager especially a manager who hasn't won much and had to make a huge step up.

Someone said above he doesn't probably know his best 11 and I'd agree with that. Van Persie fit will make a big difference too.

Rayne Wooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

At least Moyes is trying to play football.

You must be joking

The_Kew_Tour

rarnes1 wrote: »

Sometimes it's obvious things aren't working...

---

At least Moyes is trying to play football.

Following Fergie was always going to be ridiculous for any manager especially a manager who hasn't won much and had to make a huge step up.

Someone said above he doesn't probably know his best 11 and I'd agree with that. Van Persie fit will make a big difference too.

on the ball here

BloodBath

Point taken, and I agree to a point. But the post I was replying to implied that players underperforming should be the sole responsibility of the manager because he's picked a less than full strength team. I couldn't disagree more with that.

The team he picked was good enough to beat West Brom. Don't think anyone can deny that. Players have to accept the majority of the blame for that.

Some of the decisions made by the manager during the game were baffling. He has to accept the blame for that.

The players he chose have underperformed in the positions they have played for quite some time now. (Rio, Jones at RB, Anderson, Buttner over Evra) The fact that he chose them over better options in a game that should have been a bounce back situation from last weeks awful defeat is unforgivable. We needed to win today, preferably by a good margin. To ensure that Moyes needed to play the strongest team. He wasn't in a position to pick a team that people think is strong enough to beat West Brom. He had to pick the best team. It's another stupid complacent mistake or complete ineptness at picking the best squad.

spiralism

Sirsok wrote: »

No blame on the terrible fans so no?

South stand in all fairness is always going to be like that from several past experiences, imo the atmosphere hasnt been bad of late. Wednesday was very good, away support excellent at city especially considering what transpired in front of them.

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You must be joking

Not as expansive as Fergie but it's hardly hoofball ffs!

Too Tough To Die

Fergie said it was our job to get behind Moyes.