Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

BloodBath

Someone said above he doesn't probably know his best 11 and I'd agree with that. Van Persie fit will make a big difference too.

Watching Rio play ****e for 6 games in a row (now 7) wasn't enough for Moyes to realise there are better options for the back?

The simple fact is we had 3 better options for the back 4, he didn't play them, and we conceded 2 goals at home because of it.

IvySlayer

rarnes1 wrote: »

Sometimes it's obvious things aren't working...

---

At least Moyes is trying to play football.

Following Fergie was always going to be ridiculous for any manager especially a manager who hasn't won much and had to make a huge step up.

Someone said above he doesn't probably know his best 11 and I'd agree with that. Van Persie fit will make a big difference too.

I said it, but he's a manager with 11 years of PL experience, 3 months at the club now, knows these players going against them before plenty of times before. Not scored from open play in the league since Swansea

Hopefully he gets them motivated for the Sunderland game

Rayne Wooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not as expansive as Fergie but it's hardly hoofball ffs!

I'd say it's at the same level as most of the stuff we played last year tbh, barring the Leverkusen game which was mostly watchable, enjoyable at times.

The thing is we needed a CM to change our play, Fergie had no choice with the CMs we had, now that we have Fellaini we should be playing better football and yet we're still basically at the same level as last year minus the result/Fergie factor.

Granted we've had some injuries but the majority of what we have played this season and more importantly the way we've set up, has been poor.

BloodBath

BloodBath wrote: »

Watching Rio play ****e for 6 games in a row (now 7) wasn't enough for Moyes to realise they are better options for the back?

I'd say Ferdinand will get the bench soon.

It was obvious Young and Valencia weren't at the races for Utd this season and tbh if Moyes had picked them today there'd be big questions, but they weren't.

It'll probably take him another few weeks to get his strongest 11. The problem is Utd need to be winning games along the way.

BloodBath

If we don't win at Sunderland he has to go. I don't care about the change of manager and staff. It's a league winning MUFC we're talking about here. Losing at home to West Brom, in what was supposed to be a "bounce back" game is not acceptable. A 10 year old who plays fifa could have picked a better squad today.

Al Capwned

BloodBath wrote: »

The players he chose have underperformed in the positions they have played for quite some time now. (Rio, Jones at RB, Anderson, Buttner over Evra) The fact that he chose them over better options in a game that should have been a bounce back situation from last weeks awful defeat is unforgivable. We needed to win today, preferably by a good margin. To ensure that Moyes needed to play the strongest team. He wasn't in a position to pick a team that people think is strong enough to beat West Brom. He had to pick the best team. It's another stupid complacent mistake or complete ineptness at picking the best squad.

You do realise that we have an away game in Ukraine on Wednesday? The only issue I'd have with Moyes' team selection today would be Jones starting at right back.

With the benefit of hindsight, and looking now at how the team performed, maybe I'd have made more changes, but at the time (before kickoff) was happy with the team. Were you?

Edit - I've just read your next post. Forget I asked.

IvySlayer

IvySlayer wrote: »

I said it, but he's a manager with 11 years of PL experience, 3 months at the club now, knows these players going against them before plenty of times before. Not scored from open play in the league since Swansea

Hopefully he gets them motivated for the Sunderland game

There's a fine line though, Utd the last few seasons didn't play well in some games but dug out a win.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I'd say it's at the same level as most of the stuff we played last year tbh, barring the Leverkusen game which was mostly watchable, enjoyable at times.

The thing is we needed a CM to change our play, Fergie had no choice with the CMs we had, now that we have Fellaini we should be playing better football and yet we're still basically at the same level as last year minus the result/Fergie factor.

Granted we've had some injuries but the majority of what we have played this season and more importantly the way we've set up, has been poor.

Your transfer dealings or lack of in the summer were poor. Probably not Moyes fault, the same thing happened Rodgers at Liverpool last summer, the guys above were too slow/impompetent to sanction deals.

Also, I'm not sure Fellani was needed for Utd tbh, time will tell obviously.

Sirsok

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Get out.

No seriously so you not find the home support at times much to quite

newballsplease

The main problem with the team today was Anderson in midfield.

Not near good enough, never has been. Clev would have been better today and that doesnt say much.

Rio is past it and has lost most of his pace that he ever had.

Im really starting to worry for UTD.

BloodBath

You do realise that we have an away game in Ukraine on Wednesday? The only issue I'd have with Moyes' team selection today would be Jones starting at right back.

With the benefit of hindsight, and looking now at how the team performed, maybe I'd have made more changes, but at the time (before kickoff) was happy with the team. Were you?

Yes I am aware. However after our first win in that group there is less importance on that CL game than there was on the WBA game. We needed 3 points today. Playing anything other than our best team was not an option. Especially choosing 2 defenders who should not be in the first team and Jones in RB when we had Rafael back. Even smalling is far better at RB than Jones. Losing on wednesday is an option. We should still finish top of that group. Losing today was not an option.

No I wasn't happy. I have already made my opinion on Rios selection in the squad perfectly clear over the last 2 weeks. He shouldn't be in it and definitely not in the first team. Vidic is our defence. Without him we always concede goals. Look at the difference he made coming back from injury for the second half of last season. Rio is clearly not a good leader or a good defender at the back. Playing Buttner in 2 games in 3 days is just idiotic as well. Evra should have started.

I have also made my opinion clear on Anderson. He should be sold asap. Never in the team unless there is no other option.

Al Capwned

BloodBath wrote: »

Playing anything other than our best team was not an option.

Really?

BloodBath wrote: »

5 relatively easy fixtures coming up. More including champions league games. I want to see more of the younger players being given a chance to prove themselves.

So which is it???

Listen mate, I know today was frustrating, but coming out with stuff like you have this evening about wanting the manager sacked is just way over the top.

IvySlayer

How many times will Homerjay insult Jones do you think? :P

Headshot

IvySlayer wrote: »

How many times will Homerjay insult Jones do you think? :P

I have money on 5

LostBoy101

Jones really isn't good enough to be playing right back. I would like to see him play CB instead of Rio to fulfill his real potential.

titan18

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not as expansive as Fergie but it's hardly hoofball ffs!

He's thrown Fellaini forward for long balls to be hit up to him more than once tbf

The_Kew_Tour

should have had a peno there watching MOTD

Bleating Lamb

Only going on MOTD highlights........ But defence was shambolic,Buttner is not able to defend.....full stop,Rio was a class act but Father Time waits for no man...... Unless he is dropped we will continue to concede soft goals.

PhlegmyMoses

titan18 wrote: »

He's thrown Fellaini forward for long balls to be hit up to him more than once tbf

Genuinely haven't seen this. Didn't see the full match today. Did he do it today?

Oregano_State

BloodBath wrote: »

If we don't win at Sunderland he has to go. I don't care about the change of manager and staff. It's a league winning MUFC we're talking about here. Losing at home to West Brom, in what was supposed to be a "bounce back" game is not acceptable. A 10 year old who plays fifa could have picked a better squad today.

Lol

Winston Payne

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Genuinely haven't seen this. Didn't see the full match today. Did he do it today?

No. We started trying to force the intricate stuff a little better towards the end of the game. Januzaj had some good runs down the right hand channel and Nani's penalty shout came from a series of short passes into the box.

PhlegmyMoses

Winston Payne wrote: »

No. We started trying to force the intricate stuff a little better towards the end of the game. Januzaj had some good runs down the right hand channel and Nani's penalty shout came from a series of short passes into the box.

So Titan is talking out of his hoop a bit. I haven't see Fellaini play up front with long balls being punted up there this season yet.

Rayne Wooney

Anyone watch Spurs today? Exactly the way United should be playing

tinofapples

While I agree we were very poor today we had chances early on, Anderson hitting the crossbar in particular. It's beyond me how to classify Anderson as a footballer, he's been something of a Djemba-Djemba but that wasn't Moyes doing. He'd wanna start realising quick who's good enough to be in the first 11. I agree with most here Rio's time has passed, he could have been offloaded in the summer without any great loss. Buttner was never good enough for United and never will be. Kagawa is gonna get pi $$ ed off if he keeps being a bitpart player.

I read recently a post by a United fan saying he/she would settle for 3rd place and the Carling Cup. I thought it was a bit ott but every week that goes by now I do wonder

Dicky Pride

We won the league by 11 points last year...to say 3rd place and the Donald Duck cup would be sufficient...well whoever said that needs to be slapped.

SweepTheLeg

What do you united fans think about Rio now? Is he not getting enough rest, or is he just not good enough anymore?

Made a lot of mistakes this seasons.

MagicIRL

I don't understand the teams at all.

Surely United should be playing

De Gea
Rafael - Evans/Smalling - Vidic - Evra
Carrick - Fellaini
Nani - Rooney - Kagawa
RVP

That's the strongest 11 imo. Give Zaha/Young both a spot on the bench, with Zaha being the first choice sub. Jones seems to be cover for various slots atm rather than nailing down a position of his own. I think it's just that Uniteds attacking wingers (Nani/Young/Tony V) have peaked in terms of how sht they can play, and it just so happens it's come as soon as Fergie left.

Hopefully the pressure is put on the United execs to get the wallets out for some players come January/Summer. The team really needs to add some quality to it.

Soldie

It's actually been years since we played consistently good football, and the Fergie effect has gotten us over the line in recent times. I was wishing the Moyes era would see us play a different brand of football, and I was encouraged by his (albeit failed) courting of ball-playing midfielders. My wish came true, but unfortunately we seem to be playing an even worse brand of football, and Moyes' poor team choices and tactical decisions are slowly eroding whatever optimism I have left. More so than a faltering Ferdinand and awful wingers, I think the number one reason we routinely play so poorly is a complete lack of mobility in the middle of the park. Carrick played well last season, but he's a relatively limited player who shines next to hopelessly average midfield teammates. It really is such a shame that we failed to invest properly in this area over the summer, and I think we're going to have to do business here in the January window as we can't afford to wait until next summer.

Timmyctc

tinofapples wrote: »

While I agree we were very poor today we had chances early on, Anderson hitting the crossbar in particular. It's beyond me how to classify Anderson as a footballer, he's been something of a Djemba-Djemba but that wasn't Moyes doing. He'd wanna start realising quick who's good enough to be in the first 11. I agree with most here Rio's time has passed, he could have been offloaded in the summer without any great loss. Buttner was never good enough for United and never will be. Kagawa is gonna get pi $$ ed off if he keeps being a bitpart player.

I read recently a post by a United fan saying he/she would settle for 3rd place and the Carling Cup. I thought it was a bit ott but every week that goes by now I do wonder

I cant agree with anyone who says we could have offloaded Rio in the summer. He was immense last season and there was nothing to suggest he would have degraded so much over the summer. He was in the team of the year ffs.

Winston Payne

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

What do you united fans think about Rio now? Is he not getting enough rest, or is he just not good enough anymore?

Made a lot of mistakes this seasons.

His age and injury record have to be taken into account. I think he's being played too much and I don't think it's a coincidence that one of his worst displays in recent times has coincided with an extended run of games. He needs to be carefully managed, because of his age and back problems. I thought this time last year he was on the way out and he wound up having a great season. This might be the end for him but I think if he was rotated in out of the side a bit more it'd help him.

Iused2likebusts

Not a utd fan and not looking to stir things up just a few opinions on the start yous have had. I mentioned on here over the summer in response to a comment that your younger players can only get better(which they will) the flip side of that is a lot of your key older players have definetly reached their peak and are going to go into decline. Vidic, rio, evra, carrick, giggs are all the wrong side of 30. RVP not quite at that stage yet but has reached the peak of his powers Id imagine.
Particularly in the city game against their sharp attackers and a powerful CM rio, vidic, evra, carrick as 4 of your 5 most defensive players there is a lack of mobility defensively against the top sides.
Moyes has been unlucky with the start you were given and also the CL group and carling cup draw. He has had to play his strongest team against leverkusen and will need to in donetsk as well as playing some of his big guns against liverpool. This has a knock on effect in league games as your top players arent as fresh or as was the case today some of your weaker players need to play to keep lads fresh for Wed. Most years Utd havent had this issue as the b squad would play in the carling cup and the CL team in the group stages wouldnt usually be the strongest eleven.
The big positive for yous so far is rooney he seems to be back to his best also chelsea and City arent exactly setting the world alight.

SherlockWatson

Dicky Pride wrote: »

We won the league by 11 points last year...to say 3rd place and the Donald Duck cup would be sufficient...well whoever said that needs to be slapped.

Nowhere near as silly as saying Ferguson intentionally sabotaged the club by appointing Moyes, is it?

Unearthly

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Anyone watch Spurs today? Exactly the way United should be playing

I Thought they were poor second half and got bailed out by the red card.

The_Kew_Tour

hard reading...

Moyes deserves a hell of lot more time than people want him to get.

Danye

Ezequiel Wonderful Steeple wrote: »

mediocrity is what the united board endured for four years between 1986-1990-we all know what followed..

Different scenarios to be fair. At that time Fergie inherited a club that was in a bit if a state. Plus he came down from Scotland having an amazing record.

Moyes has came into a championship winning team, with world class players.

Soldie

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

hard reading...

Moyes deserves a hell of lot more time than people want him to get.

I can only speak for myself but I just want something to feel optimistic about.

Winston Payne

I don't get the lads that were expecting an improvement to be honest. We appoint a worse manager and expect things to get better?

Chagan

Danye wrote: »

Different scenarios to be fair. At that time Fergie inherited a club that was in a bit if a state. Plus he came down from Scotland having an amazing record.

Moyes has came into a championship winning team, with world class players.

That still doesn't mean he should only get a couple of months in the job before we start discussing his successor though.

DARK-KNIGHT

Sir Alex said at his farewell speech that what we all need to do as fans is get behind the manager and support him and the players.. Remember that we are in a place where manager of 26 years is gone and the man that Alex knows can bring us forward is at the helm... I trust moyes I think we will be top 3 this season and back to basics next season with a huge shout in all major silverware..

Moyes needs a very successful transfer window IMO to bring steel to this team!!!!

Ordinary man

Moyes needs to put out a settled team for a few games to steady things up, he can start rotating when the pressure is off. I think most posters would agree this is the best to go with



De Gea
Rafael - Evans/Smalling - Vidic - Evra
Carrick - Fellaini
Nani - Rooney - Kagawa
RVP

The team atm is playing without confidence. Rooney is the only one firing

Headshot

I have my doubts that we'll see Kag starting again after what happened today

DARK-KNIGHT

Ordinary man wrote: »

Moyes needs to put out a settled team for a few games to steady things up, he can start rotating when the pressure is off. I think most posters would agree this is the best to go with



De Gea
Rafael - Evans/Smalling - Vidic - Evra
Carrick - Fellaini
Nani - Rooney - Kagawa
RVP

The team atm is playing without confidence. Rooney is the only one firing

Imagine if Rooney was sold to Chelsea during the summer frightening prospect thinking about it

Danye

Chagan wrote: »

That still doesn't mean he should only get a couple of months in the job before we start discussing his successor though.

Personally I feel he should of never got the job.

If he's looking out of his depth already these things are bound to be asked.

Ordinary man

The only bright side i can see is that even with this terrible start city and chelsea haven't pulled away too much yet. Arsenal and spurs are going well but i can't see either lasting the pace

DARK-KNIGHT

Danye wrote: »

Personally I feel he should of never got the job.

If he's looking out of his depth already these things are bound to be asked.

I think he is the right man for the job!!!!

Danye

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I think he is the right man for the job!!!!

Fair enough.

As a matter of opinion though, why do you think he's the right man for the job?

Winston Payne

There was nobody that I've have been one hundred per cent happy with getting the job in place of SAF. SAF was the only manager I've ever known, and he brought an unreal amount of success. I've accepted that I'm unlikely to see a manger like him again. Moyes isn't the man that I wanted in place of SAF but then I didn't want anyone in place of him. There's no appointment that I'd have been one hundred per cent happy with seeing as the perfect man was previously in place. I'm willing to give Moyes time and outside of what I regard as an unacceptable final placement (this season that'd be outside the top four but that may well change) I think for this season at least he deserves backing. It's very difficult, and a little unrealistic to expect, but fans have to dial back expectations, failures are going to occur. Moyes will make mistakes that SAF would never have.

The_Kew_Tour

the way some are talking it sounds like some dont fancy top 4.

willing to bet we be in top 3 come end of season if any takers,

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

the way some are talking it sounds like some dont fancy top 4.

willing to bet we be in top 3 come end of season if any takers,

How much? Do you think we're stronger than Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, City?

The_Kew_Tour

Danye wrote: »

How much? Do you think we're stronger than Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, City?

50 or 100?

i think we will be ahead of at least 2 come May imo.

Alfred Borden

non united fan here but if blame is towards the squad it has to fall at fergies door, plus the man that won yee everything handpicked Moyes so i would trust him and think yee are pretty safe.