Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

mewe

Fergie knew those players like the back of his hand. The team Moyes inherited were champions but also a team with plenty of weaknesses. Moyes has a thick skin and that's partly why Fergie recommended him i would say.

He needs time. It's not his team yet. People callin for his head and goin into meltdown need to cop the f*ck on.

Danye

Winston Payne wrote: »

There was nobody that I've have been one hundred per cent happy with getting the job in place of SAF. SAF was the only manager I've ever known, and he brought an unreal amount of success. I've accepted that I'm unlikely to see a manger like him again. Moyes isn't the man that I wanted in place of SAF but then I didn't want anyone in place of him. There's no appointment that I'd have been one hundred per cent happy with seeing as the perfect man was previously in place. I'm willing to give Moyes time and outside of what I regard as an unacceptable final placement (this season that'd be outside the top four but that may well change) I think for this season at least he deserves backing. It's very difficult, and a little unrealistic to expect, but fans have to dial back expectations, failures are going to occur. Moyes will make mistakes that SAF would never have.

Pep was my first choice, failing that Mourinho. Either of those 2 and I would of been more than happy.

They're proven winners at the highest level.

I really do want Moyes to do well it's just I don't think he can and what we've seen from him so far would affirm my opinion.

Headshot

You have to give credit to Moyes for at least giving Jan chances, I doubt Saf would of

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

50 or 100?

i think we will be ahead of at least 2 come May imo.

I'm a betting man but I won't take it mate.

If I did I'd be backing against my own club and I just can't do it!!

I do hope your right though and I'm wrong but I can't see it considering how poor we're playing and how strong the mentioned teams squads are.

The_Kew_Tour

Danye wrote: »

I'm a betting man but I won't take it mate.

If I did I'd be backing against my own club and I just can't do it!!

I do hope your right though and I'm wrong but I can't see it considering how poor we're playing and how strong the mentioned teams squads are.

totally understand..

i hope im right too:pac:

Danye

Raf32 wrote: »

non united fan here but if blame is towards the squad it has to fall at fergies door, plus the man that won yee everything handpicked Moyes so i would trust him and think yee are pretty safe.

Well why did Moyes not improve the squad when he became manager?

Danye

Headshot wrote: »

You have to give credit to Moyes for at least giving Jan chances, I doubt Saf would of

Why would Fergie not have given Jan a chance?

Jimmy Iovine

Headshot wrote: »

You have to give credit to Moyes for at least giving Jan chances, I doubt Saf would of

I thought of that during the match. Moyes has played youngsters in the past (more out of necessity than anything, though). I think he'll get a few more appearances.

Why was Kagawa taken off? Was it an injury?

When was the last time ha managed to complete 90 minutes. He must be severely pissed off with things.

Alfred Borden

Danye wrote: »

Well why did Moyes not improve the squad when he became manager?

if he went and changed a championship winning squad and then got the points he has now, he would be getting way more stick than he is now. always going to be an impossible job. still would rather moyes over jose long term any day of the week, just my opinion though.

Headshot

Danye wrote: »

Why would Fergie not have given Jan a chance?

Ask Pogba

Danye

Raf32 wrote: »

if he went and changed a championship winning squad and then got the points he has now, he would be getting way more stick than he is now. always going to be an impossible job. still would rather moyes over jose long term any day of the week, just my opinion though.

Who said change it??? I said improve.

Headshot

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I thought of that during the match. Moyes has played youngsters in the past (more out of necessity than anything, though). I think he'll get a few more appearances.

Why was Kagawa taken off? Was it an injury?

When was the last time ha managed to complete 90 minutes. He must be severely pissed off with things.

Kag was taken off for no apparent reason, it was awful managing tbh
I reckon Kag is a goner in summer and who would blame him?

Alfred Borden

Danye wrote: »

Who said change it??? I said improve.

He tried in fairness, maybe he did. Fellaini was a great signing, tried for fabregas and thiago. tried to address a problem area which fergie has neglected for years. he wasnt to know rio would be this useless, carrick with his usual slow start to a season and unlucky injuries to rvp and rooney. Its probably a better squad than last year but he is going to take some time to make it his own, he is looking for that playmaker in the middle and when yee get him in january i think it will be his team then, win or lose.

Danye

Headshot wrote: »

Ask Pogba

Ask Beckham, Scholoes, Giggs, Neville, Butt, Ronaldo, Wes Brown, John O'Shea on your way to getting to Pogba.

MD1990

i can see Kagawa moving back to Dortmund at the end of the season
Moyes doesn't seem to like him

Alfred Borden

united should use Kagawa as bait for Reus, be perfect for united!

Winston Payne

Headshot wrote: »

Ask Pogba

Pogba and Januzaj are chalk and cheese, as of right now. If Januzaj starts acting the maggot with his agent and phoning it in with the reserves over the next few months, fair enough. But right now, that's an unfair comparison to make.

Headshot

Danye wrote: »

Ask Beckham, Scholoes, Giggs, Neville, Butt, Ronaldo, Wes Brown, John O'Shea on your way to getting to Pogba.

Those were back in the day, you should of brought up welbeck and raf to at least give your argument some point

I dont believe saf will play Jan the amount of games Moyes will give him.

Winston Payne wrote: »

Pogba and Januzaj are chalk and cheese, as of right now. If Januzaj starts acting the maggot with his agent and phoning it in with the reserves over the next few months, fair enough. But right now, that's an unfair comparison to make.

No it isnt

Pogba was ready for the first team but instead they got a retiree to come back, Jan is ready for the first team and is getting his chances.

Danye

Raf32 wrote: »

He tried in fairness, maybe he did. Fellaini was a great signing, tried for fabregas and thiago. tried to address a problem area which fergie has neglected for years. he wasnt to know rio would be this useless, carrick with his usual slow start to a season and unlucky injuries to rvp and rooney. Its probably a better squad than last year but he is going to take some time to make it his own, he is looking for that playmaker in the middle and when yee get him in january i think it will be his team then, win or lose.

Are you saying he tried to improve the squad by signing one player, that player being Fellani?

Feeble attempt for Cesc. All sorts of mixed info about Thiago, whether United were ever in for him etc?

We have a fantastic playmaker in Kagawa that the manager doesn't seem to rate.

SherlockWatson

Danye wrote: »

Well why did Moyes not improve the squad when he became manager?

He did.


Just not enough, yet.

LuckyLloyd

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

give him till Christmas at least.

surely we are bigger than this.

Ye are as big or as small as any other fanbase, ye just never had the opportunity to find out over the past two decades. Thing of it is - this is the easy part. Moyes will fail clean and hard, and you'll mostly agree he has to go when the time comes. That's when the games begin. Because the next guy will actually have winning credentials and will make a horse race of it without quite being good enough consistently enough. And the question of whether to cut him loose won't be clear cut.

That's when it gets fun. You start fighting with yourself, with everyone else. You'll be a 'manager X' loyalist and fighting with the 'manager Y' guys. It'll be great craic. Welcome! The water is only lovely. :pac:

user2011

The whole thing taking Kags off today been bugging me, could Rooney not of went up top Kags in behind and Jan out wide would of made a whole lot more sense.

Also did Kagawa come back out at half and sit with the other subs?

SherlockWatson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ye are as big or as small as any other fanbase, ye just never had the opportunity to find out over the past two decades. Thing of it is - this is the easy part. Moyes will fail clean and hard, and you'll mostly agree he has to go when the time comes. That's when the games begin. Because the next guy will actually have winning credentials and will make a horse race of it without quite being good enough consistently enough. And the question of whether to cut him loose won't be clear cut.

That's when it gets fun. You start fighting with yourself, with everyone else. You'll be a 'manager X' loyalist and fighting with the 'manager Y' guys. It'll be great craic. Welcome! The water is only lovely. :pac:

"Moyes will fail clean and hard"


Can I borrow your crystal ball?

Alfred Borden

Danye wrote: »

Are you saying he tried to improve the squad by signing one player, that player being Fellani?

Feeble attempt for Cesc. All sorts of mixed info about Thiago, whether United were ever in for him etc?

We have a fantastic playmaker in Kagawa that the manager doesn't seem to rate.

Yes Fellaini was a very good signing no? give him time. Unlucky that pep wanted him, otherwise he was uniteds. Fergie didnt rate Kagawa either so that cant just fall on Moyes. His best position is number 10 but yee cant get him in that position with two of the best strikers in the world so he is sacrificed and rightfully so although he is a great player.

Backstreet Moyes

Does anybody know a reason we have not seen Zaha. Our best player pre season has yet to get on the field when our wingers have been muck.

Danye

Headshot wrote: »

Those were back in the day, you should of brought up welbeck and raf to at least give your argument some point

I dont believe saf will play Jan the amount of games Moyes will give him.


No it isnt

Pogba was ready for the first team but instead they got a retiree to come back, Jan is ready for the first team and is getting his chances.

I'm not arguing with anybody. I'm merely stating that Fergie has shown the faith that he has in youth all through his career.

The_Kew_Tour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ye are as big or as small as any other fanbase, ye just never had the opportunity to find out over the past two decades. Thing of it is - this is the easy part. Moyes will fail clean and hard, and you'll mostly agree he has to go when the time comes. That's when the games begin. Because the next guy will actually have winning credentials and will make a horse race of it without quite being good enough consistently enough. And the question of whether to cut him loose won't be clear cut.

That's when it gets fun. You start fighting with yourself, with everyone else. You'll be a 'manager X' loyalist and fighting with the 'manager Y' guys. It'll be great craic. Welcome! The water is only lovely. :pac:

Being Cork and Hibs fan also this is not new to me. Been through this and used of it since 6yo.

It's just different team now.

I understand what you mean though.

Danye

Raf32 wrote: »

Yes Fellaini was a very good signing no? give him time. Unlucky that pep wanted him, otherwise he was uniteds. Fergie didnt rate Kagawa either so that cant just fall on Moyes. His best position is number 10 but yee cant get him in that position with two of the best strikers in the world so he is sacrificed and rightfully so although he is a great player.

Yeah he wasn't bad. How do you know he was Uniteds? No I know it can't to be fair but you said Moyes will get a playmaker in January. He already has a playmaker but won't play him which you think is justified. If he does go and buy a playmaker where is he going to fit him in?

spiralism

There's another way of looking at it too, we actually underrated Fergie after all:

-Literally every one from his coaching tree so to speak who has gone on to higher jobs has crashed and burned or at the very least underwhelmed (see mclaren, kidd, quieroz etc). Meanwhile we kept winning.

-Every year we lose a **** load of players due to injury (which should be questioned more - what the **** are we doing regarding conditioning)...and we'd grind out results.

-Our academy has failed to produce world class players, notably since Eric Harrison retired in the ****ing late 90s. Think on any decent young player we've developed and its probably involved a transfer. We've developed players that we nonetheless bought, true, but the best we've got in terms of a pure youth product since the late 90s has been Welbeck in all honesty. Again, a lot of this club's storied development of players into legends has come from Fergie spotting and developing unpolished gems - see Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra.

-We've still got a huge debt issue and a bunch of owners far more concerned with milking corporate sponsors than on field success. This, when coupled with a scouting network that has become far more hit and miss in recent years (see bebe, young, anderson, buttner) means that we have a squad with several more subpar players than our main rivals, especially when you consider that Evra and Rio are falling into that category due to losing a step.

-On the same basis, the club's signing policy post 2007 was baffling. Either centre backs, strikers or wingers. Nothing at all regarding the often gaping hole in the middle of the park, with the cruelly ironic twist that when Fergie left, we'd never been in such poor shape regarding wingers and we signed a midfielder in Kagawa only to not know how to use him, if at all.

-Considering the amount of rot in the background when you look at it from this angle, the fact that we continued to win trophies and lost out to one of the all time great sides in two champions league finals says a lot for just what Sir Alex could do despite everything.

Now add to that the fact that Moyes comes in, he succeeds a man who despite all of the above, won everything around him to the end, has to deal with that as well as a new CEO with no experience in transfer dealings. We proceed to make a balls of transfer dealings through said lack of experience between the two of them, start badly due to a gruelling run of fixtures and now everyone's on his back for not being Fergie. He's done badly but in all fairness i kinda think the club's put him out in front of the bus a little, the club's in a bit more of a mess than some of us like to let on i feel and it's not down to Moyes entirely by any means.

titan18

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Genuinely haven't seen this. Didn't see the full match today. Did he do it today?

We did it against City. When Clev came on, Fellaini was pushed further foward.

Backstreet Moyes

titan18 wrote: »

We did it against City. When Clev came on, Fellaini was pushed further foward.

Your wrong.

Winston Payne

Fellaini went further forward and he got more involved in the game against City. We didn't play hoofball though. When Cleverley came on our level of general play actually improved.

SherlockWatson

titan18 wrote: »

We did it against City. When Clev came on, Fellaini was pushed further foward.

Are you seriously telling me that you were watching that game and DIDN'T think we should make a tactical change?

titan18

Nuts102 wrote: »

Your wrong.

Cool, if you want to go and watch the last 30 mins of the match, you can go ahead. Clev came on, Kompany was having his way with Rooney with anything, so Fellaini went up to battle for headers with him and to get Rooney on the ball.

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Are you seriously telling me that you were watching that game and DIDN'T think we should make a tactical change?

I'd agree with it, it's negative but understandable, but was just addressing the point that we haven't done it.

Backstreet Moyes

titan18 wrote: »

Cool, if you want to go and watch the last 30 mins of the match, you can go ahead. Clev came on, Kompany was having his way with Rooney with anything, so Fellaini went up to battle for headers with him and to get Rooney on the ball.



I'd agree with it, it's negative but understandable, but was just addressing the point that we haven't done it.

No i watched the game. City were cruising and sat back. Fellaini was more forward because City stopped playing.

SherlockWatson

titan18 wrote: »

I'd agree with it, it's negative but understandable, but was just addressing the point that we haven't done it.

Ah fair enough chief, my bad!

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

If we don't win at Sunderland he has to go. I don't care about the change of manager and staff. It's a league winning MUFC we're talking about here. Losing at home to West Brom, in what was supposed to be a "bounce back" game is not acceptable. A 10 year old who plays fifa could have picked a better squad today.

People like you give football fans a bad name you know.

Should Pellegrini get the boot do you reckon for getting beaten by a hopeless at home, without Benteke, Aston Villa too?

kryogen

Danye wrote: »

Why would Fergie not have given Jan a chance?

Probably the same reason he didn't give Pogba his chance, froze out Nani and was driving Rooney from the club?

kryogen

Danye wrote: »

Ask Beckham, Scholoes, Giggs, Neville, Butt, Ronaldo, Wes Brown, John O'Shea on your way to getting to Pogba.

Not a very good argument tbf, Im sure you can see why

kryogen

Nuts102 wrote: »

Does anybody know a reason we have not seen Zaha. Our best player pre season has yet to get on the field when our wingers have been muck.

Very very raw.

I would wager he is not disciplined enough tactically for Moyes yet either, would like to see him get some game time soon though. He can learn and Moyes cant start to trust him until he plays a bit

BloodBath

kryogen wrote: »

People like you give football fans a bad name you know.

Should Pellegrini get the boot do you reckon for getting beaten by a hopeless at home, without Benteke, Aston Villa too?

We'll see if you still think the same in the next month. If you think the results so far have been ok then good for you. As a true united fan I don't. Moyes has failed at everything so far. I'm not calling for his head yet but let's be honest. He has failed in the summer and so far this season. Not even picking the right squad is unacceptable. Pellegrini didn't fail in the transfer window. He strengthened the squad and they are miles ahead of United at the moment. There is no way we will finish ahead of them this season.

He tried in fairness, maybe he did. Fellaini was a great signing, tried for fabregas and thiago. tried to address a problem area which fergie has neglected for years. he wasnt to know rio would be this useless, carrick with his usual slow start to a season and unlucky injuries to rvp and rooney. Its probably a better squad than last year but he is going to take some time to make it his own, he is looking for that playmaker in the middle and when yee get him in january i think it will be his team then, win or lose.

He wasn't to know Rio would be useless?
Have you watched Rio in the last 6 games? I have and he has been useless in all of them. The fact that he was selected again today proves Moyes is inept at team selection.

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

We'll see if you still think the same in the next month. If you think the results so far have been ok then good for you. As a true united fan I don't. Moyes has failed at everything so far. I'm not calling for his head yet but let's be honest. He has failed in the summer and so far this season. Not even picking the right squad is unacceptable. Pellegrini didn't fail in the transfer window. He strengthened the squad and they are miles ahead of United at the moment. There is no way we will finish ahead of them this season.

But Pellegrini lost to Villa, he lost to Cardiff, surely he should be for the chop after spending so much money? What about Jose? Should he go too? Results have been bad. Freezing out his best player and picking the wrong "squads".

Your reference to being a "true United fan" makes me embarrassed for you. That's me being honest. Your posts make me embarrassed.

Moyes, though not my first choice for the job, deserves time. Don't be a spoiled brat.

BloodBath

But Pellegrini lost to Villa, he lost to Cardiff, surely he should be for the chop after spending so much money? What about Jose? Should he go too? Results have been bad. Freezing out his best player and picking the wrong "squads".

They are both in the top 5. We are 12th. City dominated us 4-1.

While I hope I'm wrong and that Moyes turns it around I can only base my opinion on what I have seen so far and that is total ineptness in the transfer window, team selection, tactics and results.

ician

Just watching the match now, why in the name of god was Kagawa taken off?! so maddening.

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

They are both in the top 5. We are 12th. City dominated us 4-1.

While I hope I'm wrong and that Moyes turns it around I can only base my opinion on what I have seen so far and that is total ineptness in the transfer window, team selection, tactics and results.

They are both in the top 5, with City already having lost to Cardiff/Villa, jesus what will happen Pelligrini when City are playing the mid level teams away from home!

You can only base your opinion on the huge mind blowingly massive sample size of games Moyes has taken charge of, you sure can......

kryogen

ician wrote: »

Just watching the match now, why in the name of god was Kagawa taken off?! so maddening.

I have been working so have no idea about this myself, extremely frustrating decision though unless he was injured.

IvySlayer

He wasn't injured, Moyes said he took him off to improve the pace.

wonderfullife

ThirdMan wrote: »

The whole rationale behind Moyes' appointment was that he had long-term vision, and that he had proved his commitment over time. It would be a major embarrassment for the club if he was sacked, particularly in the first season. He should be given at least two seasons to make an impact; three if he can secure Champions League football.

Everyone has an opinion, and that's mine. But I cannot understand the people that are calling for his head already. After six league games? I'm just stunned. Talk about being spoiled bloody rotten over the years. Almost two decades of near constant success. Untold millions spent on some of the best players in the world. The emergence of some wonderful homegrown talent. You've seen all of that, and yet here you are throwing your toys out of the pram six games into a new era. Unbelievable.

1. Moyes proved his "commitment"?? What sort of statement is that? He stayed at Everton for 10 years, true, but you think that's out of commitment? lol. Pull the other one. If Chelsea or City came in for him at any stage from 2006-2012 he'd have been gone from Everton in a heartbeat.

He stayed at Everton because any other position he could have got would have been a backwards step.

2. Untold millions....wonderful homegrown talent......agreed so far.....six games into a new era?? Say what? This is only a new era in the sense it is a new manager. The exact same wonderful talent and championship winning squad is at his disposal. He should have one of the easiest jobs in football right now. Championship winning squad, money to spend.... this "new era" thing is a nonsense. He hasn't been given an AVB-chelsea task here in trying to shift ageing deadwood.

Headshot wrote: »

So if Moyes lets say (pretty much impossible really) doesnt get CL soccer. Shouldnt he get sacked?

I admire your optimism but it's far from impossible on the evidence on this season. It might be unlikely, maybe, but impossible? This is now a 32-game season in the league. If you choose to ignore the start, it becomes a 32-game season now. Except United have already given Arsenal an 8 point headstart. They've given City a 3 point start, Spurs 6 points and Chelsea a 4 point start.

Those numbers would be meaningless in most seasons but given the evidence on display so far, that will be no easy task to overcome those deficits. And far from impossible.

League Title Betting:

23/10
Man City

3/1
Chelsea

4/1
Arsenal

13/2
Man United

8/1
Tottenham

When was the last time you could have got 13/2 on United winning the league in September? I'd say maybe 1991.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I, and a lot of others, believe Fabregas would have been sold at the right price. United's opening offer ruined any chances of us getting him. It was only a waste of time because United made it so.

Barca would probably have dealt at right price but it would take a brave man to say categorically Cesc would go to United even if they accepted.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

All I can say is LOL @ all the United fans getting on the back of Moyes. The man is a proven Premier League manager and he needs time to put his stamp on the team. With what he's been given, he has done a very good job so far.

I know this post is a wind-up however i'll bite anyway - he's a proven manager in getting his side in the top half of the table while winning nothing. I that's all United want then sure he's your man......

He's been given the title winning squad and money to spend, hence all those 20 and 30 million pound failed bids for cesc, herrera, thiago, de rossi, and any spare Real Madrid midfielder they could think of on deadline day.....

I'm astonished by so many United fans trotting out the concept of loyalty and commitment. Times have changed. If by the end of the season, United are trophyless and out of the top 4, then it is clear Moyes is out of his depth. As people keep saying he knows the Premier League. For years people raved about him saying "if only he had the money, he'd be one of the great managers". Well now he has the title winning squad AND money.....

He's made some baffling decisions and statements in his short tenure to date. Chief amongst them "it'll get worse before it gets better". Ferguson probably choked on a glass of wine when he heard that one. He left them in great shape, it shouldn't be getting worse at all.

Moyes in strong danger of the mask slipping and being revealed as another over-rated British Isles manager in the Curbishley, Redknapp, Allardyce mould. All of whom, at one point or another, were linked with high-profile positions in the game after steering mediocre sides to relative success in the league.

PhlegmyMoses

titan18 wrote: »

We did it against City. When Clev came on, Fellaini was pushed further foward.

Nope. Fellaini went further forward when Cleverley came on but we didn't lump balls up to him. We played pretty well at that stage and kept the ball on the deck. Not sure what match you were watching tbh.

PhlegmyMoses

Oh, and some people need to calm down. Way too early in the season for this level of knee jerking. Our main two rivals have also been rubbish to start off with and can't get it together yet either.

Arsenal will have a defensive injury crisis at some point and will struggle at points. Spurs only look decent so far and struggled to break down 10 men yesterday.

My only concern is some of the selections but it was encouraging that Moyes changed up the starting 11 yesterday and dropped Young, Welbeck and Valencia. He's trying out things and it'll be a while before he gets a good idea of what players he wants and what players are letting him down.

We'll be fine as long as our main rivals don't slip too far ahead during that time.