Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Rubber_Soul

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

think there'll be some red faces at the end of the season of this thread gets resurrected. Knees jerking everywhere.

There won't be. There should be, but they'll manage to perform the necessary mental gymnastics to save face.

Your Airbag

Saturday was a let down but here is something to put it in perspective we should remember that last season there were many very poor home performances under Fergie.

I don't know what it is about those three o'clock Saturday kick offs but we always seem to be at out poorest, the stadium seems to be at its quietest whcih doesn't help. I watched many of them the past two seasons with better teams than Moyes put out Saturday.

He has learned a few hard lessons since starting. The rotation of the defense was a mistake. Vidic should play as much as possible and Buttner and Ando as little as possible.

I hope Moyes will put his strongest 11 as much as possible, the front four was fine but the defense and midfeild was a poor pick. I have faith he wont repeat the mistake again.

Lord TSC

Yes, but to counter that, despite poor preformances, Fergie only lost 5 games last season.

Moyes has lost 3 already.

Bugatti

As long as Utd can finish in the top 4 then I can accept this season being a transitional year. However, finishing below 4th could have serious consequences. This summer was hard enough to attract top players, imagine trying to do so without Champions League football. Anyways I think Moyes needs time and as many have said its only September.

Teamshadowclan

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Yes, but to counter that, despite poor preformances, Fergie only lost 5 games last season.

Moyes has lost 3 already.

Van Persie was fit all last season wasn't he?

Him not being in the team is a huge blow for Utd and a massive lift to the opposition.

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm surprised I need to explain it to be honest, but at one of the biggest most successful clubs in the world simply keeping our players should be a requisite, not a cause for celebration. Especially when two of the names you listed never actually wanted to leave in the first place.

Championship clubs can be happy about keeping their best players, title winners should have rather loftier expectations.

I never said it was a cause for celebration.

It was a bonus in a time when it looked like one of them could leave.

The_Kew_Tour

3-4 wins in a row would ease the pain. If Moyes got that he could push on

Danye

rarnes1 wrote: »

Van Persie was fit all last season wasn't he?

Him not being in the team is a huge blow for Utd and a massive lift to the opposition.

We shouldn't be a one man team.

Lord TSC

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

3-4 wins in a row would ease the pain. If Moyes got that he could push on

Agreed there. Just feel that run should have started against West Brom

The_Kew_Tour

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Agreed there. Just feel that run should have started against West Brom

Not ideal I agreed.

And it gets that little tougher everytime now

Rayne Wooney

If anything happened to Van Persie we could be mid-table for a long time, sickening reality.

Danye

Danye wrote: »

We shouldn't be a one man team.

Utd aren't a one man team but he's the 30 goal a season man.

Take him out and the points total will inevitably suffer. Same with any team

Lord TSC

It's not that RVP has been showering himself in glory when he is playing over the last few games...

The_Kew_Tour

Take away Mata orKompany and both Chelsea and City are different too

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Take away Mata orKompany and both Chelsea and City are different too

Indeed - but you are taking away the defence of one and creativity of the other.

In RVP you are taking out some goals and a point of attack, yes - but it's not like we are creating anything regardless of whether he is in the team or not.

We get the ball wide, and cross it in. Our approach doesn't change no matter where RVP is, and it isn't working.

For me, this is the biggest disappointment this season - we simply look utterly clueless on the ball. We have one approach to attack - wide and cross it. It is painfully predictable and I really hoped that Moyes would have seen this and dealt with it early.

I know he doesn't seem to like Kagawa, but I really do think we need to get Kagawa, Nani, Rooney and RVP playing together. Nani and the full backs can offer width, Rooney runs wide too and can cross - and they all can come in and offer centrally. We need the variety they can offer - we need Moyes to stick with it.

Januzaj can offer similar to Kagawa as well - play from out wide and let him cut in.

DM_7

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Yes, but to counter that, despite poor preformances, Fergie only lost 5 games last season.

Moyes has lost 3 already.

Just one more than SAF on this date last season.

It's not that shocking that three games were lost with such a massive change.

Danye

rarnes1 wrote: »

Utd aren't a one man team but he's the 30 goal a season man.

Take him out and the points total will inevitably suffer. Same with any team

But he has only being missing for 1 league game against City. He came on yesterday and we still lost. He played against Liverpool and we lost.


It's not as if he's missed a large chunk of games.

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Take away Mata orKompany and both Chelsea and City are different too

people keep saying about City and Chelsea being poor - they have a heap of new players to bed in so will only get better as the season goes on. they have two world class managers, we dont.

lets not forget also, they have about 25 players between their squads who have league medals. we will improve, but so will they.

jose is a born winner, they wont be far off it and Citys 4 new players will see them through also i think.

Mitch Connor

DM-ICE wrote: »

Just one more than SAF on this date last season.

It's not that shocking that three games were lost with such a massive change.

it isn't just the losses.

It is the fact we didn't look like winning/scoring vs City, Liverpool or West Brom.

It is the fact we have been terrible while not actually looking to change anything - as I have said, I could take the losses easier if I could see Moyes was working on something and so the players needed time to adapt. that simply isn't the case though.

For me, it is the performances that are worrying, not the results. I see no signs of cause of optimism.

Add to that the negative comments Moyes has been coming out with of late. I want to see some fight from him and United - instead all he gives us is excuses, degrading of the players and an inferiority complex - which is in stark contrast to the drum he was beating all summer.

I said it was a terrible summer, and it has continued on that theme into the season itself.

Everything about United from a football perspective has just been a joke since the league was won last season. We are a laughing stock.

Danye

DM-ICE wrote: »

Just one more than SAF on this date last season.

It's not that shocking that three games were lost with such a massive change.

I don't necessarily think its the defeats that people aren't happy with.

It's the performances or rather the lack of them and his team selections that are worrying people.

If he was trying a different formation and playing the right people in the best positions and the team genuinely looked as if it was in transition I think and I include myself in this, people wouldn't be as critical of Moyes.

Rayne Wooney

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Indeed - but you are taking away the defence of one and creativity of the other.

In RVP you are taking out some goals and a point of attack, yes - but it's not like we are creating anything regardless of whether he is in the team or not.

We get the ball wide, and cross it in. Our approach doesn't change no matter where RVP is, and it isn't working.

For me, this is the biggest disappointment this season - we simply look utterly clueless on the ball. We have one approach to attack - wide and cross it. It is painfully predictable and I really hoped that Moyes would have seen this and dealt with it early.

I know he doesn't seem to like Kagawa, but I really do think we need to get Kagawa, Nani, Rooney and RVP playing together. Nani and the full backs can offer width, Rooney runs wide too and can cross - and they all can come in and offer centrally. We need the variety they can offer - we need Moyes to stick with it.

Januzaj can offer similar to Kagawa as well - play from out wide and let him cut in.

Couldn't agree more, it's so outdated. United's attacking approach is like the Nokia 3310 compared to the iPhone 5s in the world today, we've fallen behind.

If you never watched United before and watched one game you'd think RVP was a 30 headed/bicycle kick goal a season man.

gosplan

Just a few observations if I may ..

RVP is a great player but Fergie had the skill to immediately base a canter to a title on him. There were defincies in the team but Fergie knew that if he made it about RVP, he'd finish top. Not an easy thing to do, that. Most managers can't cover up weaknesses so easily.

Moyes is being given way way way too hard a time. He has an incredibly hard task in front of him, take over from the greatest manager ever, desk with a sick fixture list and also set himself into a new club, something he doesn't have much experience of. Jose clearly knows what he's doing - pick star player and treat him badly, thereby showing everyone who's boss, star player will come good (cause he's a star player) and authority is determined. Now everyone's onside. But Jose's practiced at this cause he moves every two years. That is not what Man U want.

On Schadenfreude. Yeah we're having a chuckle at this but it's mainly at the 'we're united we'll do what we want' crowd who have been crowing non stop for years. It's obvious that there are plenty of thinking Man U fans who know exactly what's going on but the one's who seem to be more into bragging than football and the 'Ronaldo is coming back' type idiots, yeah we're enjoying seeing these people lose the plot because somehow there wasn't a seamless transition.

To succeed at this point Noyes just needs to be true to his own ideas and hope that the fools don't get him sacked before it comes together.

homerjay2005

am i right in saying we have not scored a goal from open play in our last 5 league games?

Danye

Danye wrote: »

But he has only being missing for 1 league game against City. He came on yesterday and we still lost. He played against Liverpool and we lost.


It's not as if he's missed a large chunk of games.

You surely see my point though.

Mitch Connor

People say it is a transition season.

If we were seeing transition on the pitch I could accept it. We aren't though.

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Take away Mata orKompany and both Chelsea and City are different too

Different yes but still look capable of winning IMO.

Danye

rarnes1 wrote: »

You surely see my point though.

No I can't to be honest. You said any team would miss a 30 goal a year man (or words to that extent) I highlighted the fact that he's only missed 1 game this season.

Without wishing to sound smart, what's your point?

Danye

Danye wrote: »

No I can't to be honest. You said any team would miss a 30 goal a year man (or words to that extent) I highlighted the fact that he's only missed 1 game this season.

Without wishing to sound smart, what's your point?

He missed last week's loss and only played a third of yesterday's loss.

Missing a player of his quality is without doubt going to hurt you. Suprised this has to be explained tbh.

Panthro

GSPfan wrote: »

Better off but you did anyway.

charming.

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

it isn't just the losses.

Danye wrote: »

I don't necessarily think its the defeats that people aren't happy with.

I know that.

I responded to a comment comparing the losses last season where performances were also bad. Its 3 v 2, not that startling on its own

My previous post was

DM-ICE wrote: »

No doubt United have a lot of improving to do, but I would only be worried if I thought the required improvement out of the players (and management) wasn't possible.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

People say it is a transition season.

If we were seeing transition on the pitch I could accept it. We aren't though.

You are right we are not seeing things change massively. Any transition in play and new ideas are going to happen slowly though. The disappointing thing is rightly the all round performances rather than any change in ways they side will play.

Mitch Connor

What is really annoying is that the base of the disappointments with United's performances this season could have been written last season, and the season before.

Weak defensively.
Slow, ponderous, predictable in attack.
Lack of quality in the centre of the pitch.

It has been blindingly obvious to everyone looking at it.

Why couldn't Fergie see it?
Why can't Moyes see or do anything about it?

Why is United incapable of dealing with obvious issues? Is there any other club where such issues would be allowed to continue unchecked? Barcelona and their CB issues I suppose.

Mitch Connor

rarnes1 wrote: »

He missed last week's loss and only played a third of yesterday's loss.

Missing a player of his quality is without doubt going to hurt you. Suprised this has to be explained tbh.

Missing a player of his quality should not be the difference between playing well and getting beaten comfortably by West Brom.

That being the case simply is not acceptable. It can't be.

Will I Amnt

RvP has looked off form. Valencia has been brutal. Young even worse. Fellaini hasn't settled as quickly as we hoped.

It's a player problem as much as a managerial problem we have at the moment. A turnaround in fortunes from a few players and the absence of others could see much better performances and results.

Danye

rarnes1 wrote: »

He missed last week's loss and only played a third of yesterday's loss.

Missing a player of his quality is without doubt going to hurt you. Suprised this has to be explained tbh.

I had a whole reply written out and my wifi went!!

Can't be bothered writing it out again but Mitch O'Connors reply is something along the lines of what I was going to say.

mewe

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What is really annoying is that the base of the disappointments with United's performances this season could have been written last season, and the season before.

Weak defensively.
Slow, ponderous, predictable in attack.
Lack of quality in the centre of the pitch.

I can't argue with ya here Mitch. The pity is,i feel if we had added two real top quality CM's we could have changed this to a proper monster of a team. It would have given the whole team a lift and sense of confidence which definitely is lacking at the minute. RVP's signing last season definitely gave the team a lift and papered over some cracks whereas two top CM's could have helped the team actually play better.

So we can agree that Moyes inherited a team with problems. I know he's not blameless either for not gettin the players needed in. However he was new to the club this summer and workin with Woodward who himself was new to his role which made the transition even more difficult.

It hasn't been the start we all hoped for but the best approach is to give Moyes time to do what he wants to do with the club and we can judge him properly then. Not now after six games.

Also i'm surprised more people aren't fancying Arsenal for the title this year. I think Ozil is for them what RVP was for us; someone who could give the whole team a confidence and belief. Fair enough their squad might be lackin and they're open to problems if certain players get injured but so was ours last season. Anyways they're my shout for the title this season!

BloodBath

We need to spend at least 100m to build a new team.

A combination of poor performing players and aging players really puts the team in a bit of a crisis that should have at least been partially resolved in the summer. I see Fellaini as a replacement for Carrick but who replaces the others?

Giggs is nearly 40.
Ferdinand is nearly 35.
Carrick is 33.
Evra is 32.
Vidic is nearly 32.

Anderson, Valencia and Young are simply not good enough. Fletcher won't be back. Youth prospects are hit and miss. Will Welbeck really develop into a world class striker? He can't find the net at the moment. Others are a few seasons away from hopefully developing into first team world class players. (Zaha, Januzaj, Smalling, Jones, Lingard)

We need an established CB. A second choice RB. An established replacement for Evra, hopefully Baines but he's almost 29 so maybe not the best choice. We can only hope Zaha and Jan develop quickly to replace Valencia and Young. I'd prefer to see both of them sold and a world class left winger brought in. 2 world class attacking CM's. I don't know what wages everyone is on but if Anderson and a few others who should be just squad players are getting paid much they should be sold and young replacements with potential and low wages brought in.

Would you trust Moyes to spend that 100m to rebuild our team?

Agueroooo

FFS you dont need a rebuild just some proper direction and purpose.

Rayne Wooney

Can we get Osman, Baines, Jagielka and Pienaar for 100 mil?

Donnielighto

Lads, lads 352

Raf vidic evra
Carrick fellaini
Nani ronney kags
Rvp chico

Works great in fifa 12 :pac:

BloodBath

Agueroooo wrote: »

FFS you dont need a rebuild just some proper direction and purpose.

Except we do. Managers perform best when they can build their own teams. AVB has built himself a great squad at Spurs there. It's hard for a manager to come in and manage somebody elses team. Our midfield has been neglected for years and our defence is aging.

While replacements for all don't have to be got in 1 window it would be better if they were. We need a big shake up and some fresh ideas instead of trying to play Fergies game with Fergie's team under new management and coaching.

Agueroooo

BloodBath wrote: »

Except we do. Managers perform best when they can build their own teams. AVB has built himself a great squad at Spurs there. It's hard for a manager to come in and manage somebody elses team. Our midfield has been neglected for years and our defence is aging.

While replacements for all don't have to be got in 1 window it would be better if they were. We need a big shake up and some fresh ideas instead of trying to play Fergies game with Fergie's team under new management and coaching.

I see your point but the bigger question is if Moyes is the man to be given the resources and time to do that, and what has he done to justify such a revolution?

Can he do a rebuild (I dont think its needed) whilst also keeping the team in contention on many fronts, and keeping the UTD fanbase many of whom only now success happy??

I have my doubts and was one of the real surprises he ever got the job tbh, but when I heard Rene was gone (no matter what the reasoning) I was even more surprised.

Its a massive gamble by the club and if pulled off will shut up many for another decade+ but if its not pulled off then it could be Souness territory.

BloodBath

Well that was my point. Can we trust Moyes to spend that kind of money wisely. Spending 27.5m on Fellaini is not a good sign.

I know Fergie wasn't infallible with his buys but the main thing is he got 120% out of his players. Moyes can't seem to get 80% out of them.

We need to up the quality of players to compensate for the lack of fergie factor.

sReq | uTeK

Thankfully managed to stay away for a day from here, I get both side views on this, logically results don't lie they're there for all to see however I think people need to remember back to say one when everyone in here was raving a out moyes after our 4-1 demolition of Swansea. We played some excellent football that day and its in our locker he just needs to extract it again and he will, in time.

I'm concerned more so about he manner we are los

homerjay2005

the main thing that is concerning me, is what is coming out of Moyes mouth. every time he does an interview now, he looks like a complete idiot. i just wonder is he struggling and is not able to control himself.

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

everyone in here was raving a out moyes after our 4-1 demolition of Swansea. We played some excellent football that day and its in our locker he just needs to extract it again and he will, in time.

Don't know what game you were watching but we were dire against Swansea, we just somehow popped up with the first two goals out of nowhere, went back to being dire, then got another two late on. The first twenty minutes of the Swansea game was complete rubbish from United.

And yes I said this at the time, my post are there to see. Wasn't anybody raving about Moyes that day.

Rayne Wooney

That quote that someone put up earlier, think it was homer, is worrying.

Moyes saying in the summer he had a good enough squad then saying we need a few world class players to compete, as a supporter you just don't know what to take from that.

Cypher_sounds

Our squad is good enough to win the league, as always with a bit of luck along the way. Just run through the squad lots of experienced winners mixed with some exciting youth in important positions. Only place we are lacking in that quality cm but we have the squad to be in the top four at least so given it's moyes first season a top four finish is plausible.
Then we shall see what moyes can do to improve the squad next summer and see if he can relieve us of some of the mediocre players in the squad. Let's be patient.

Liam O

I think Fergie retiring took a lot of the morale out of the squad. It's understandable that Moyes will need time to find out how to get the players to respond to him but his treatment of Kagawa is really baffling and I don't understand it. It seems like something went on at HT on Saturday that really knocked the stuffing out of the team.

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the main thing that is concerning me, is what is coming out of Moyes mouth. every time he does an interview now, he looks like a complete idiot. i just wonder is he struggling and is not able to control himself.

Yeah. That was my main annoyance over the summer with the Fabregas situation, and his post-Liverpool loss interview annoyed the **** out of me.

jambofc

so fergie advised him to keep back-room staff.....

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8949396/premier-league-manchester-united-boss-david-moyes-rejected-sir-alex-fergusons-advice-on-staff


my main concern is yes he needs time but i have seen absolutely nothing to suggest our performances will improve or that moyes has any idea about his best starting 11 or formation.