Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Leroy42

Giggsy11 wrote: »

but comparing us to Bayern or any club is unfair on Moyes. We had same manager for 26 years and for the first time in many years we are changing manager, Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Chelsea all change the managers very regularly so their set up is completely different to ours.

All valid points but it doesn't matter. I agree that changing over from SFA was a massive task, then why bring in a guy who has no experience of managing a club of our size.

Why bring in a a brackroom team only used to dealing with mid table type players, players that haven't won anything

It doesn't matter because the only thing that ever matters in football is the next game. SFA won loads, but its in the past. Utd were clearly already going backwards (at least in Europe) and instead and taking on a Mourinho or Anchilotti or Benitez they take on a guy with no experience. Even SFA had won things before he joined.

SFA says he's the man to lead us and he has what it takes, so I guess that enough for me, but he would want to shape up pretty quick. He needs to bring back some of the backroom team to get the team playing again.

homerjay2005

tallaghtmick wrote: »

A lot of people never wanted Moyes in the 1st place.

this has alot to do with it, replacing fergie was one thing, but replacing him with a world class manager would have made this "transition" alot easier. however, Moyes got the job, this was accepted....but since then he has done nothing but make a fool of himself so far.

would jose or Ancellotti publically say the team was poor like he has done, a few weeks after saying he was happy with the team? would they have left the transfer disgrace unfold for 2 months like Moyes and the board did?


can he turn it around? yes of course he can, but first thing Moyes needs to do, is shut his mouth and stop the nonsense he is coming out with, the bulls*it excuses and negativity.

Then he needs to start gaining the support and trust of the players and then he needs to pick the best 11 and get us playing great football.

i will judge him properly once CL qualification is complete and weves played about 14 or 15 league games, but so far, his tenure has been an absolute nightmare from the day we went on tour until now. its not just 6 games as some people are saying, its everything.

Leroy42

Sideshow Mark wrote: »

You're comparing managing at Everton to managing at Barcelona, that's just bonkers.

No, I'm comparing Utd against Bayern. We are supposed to be the biggest team in the world, yet even after a massive season for them they employ the best manager around, while we install a new boy.

allthedoyles

Replacing SAF with Moyes may have turned out better if it had been left at that .

But to replace both of SAF's right-hand-men does not help .- They were vital in the set-up.

bullvine

Like most fans, I didn't want Moyes, I posted here around Feb after meeting David May and him saying he wanted Moyes for the Job. I just couldn't believe it. When he got the job, I was very disappointed but accepted it because I figured Fergie would still have a huge influence but from what I have seen so far it doesn't appear to be case. This is very worrying..

I had imagined in an ideal world were Moyes would be mentored like a young Darth Vader under Emperor Palpantine but these last few weeks with his bizarre quotes and the signing of Fellaini(if Fergie had wanted him, he would have bought him last season), makes me think Moyes is really trying to be his own man which I'm not so sure is a good thing.

master-t

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this has alot to do with it, replacing fergie was one thing, but replacing him with a world class manager would have made this "transition" alot easier. however, Moyes got the job, this was accepted....but since then he has done nothing but make a fool of himself so far.

would jose or Ancellotti publically say the team was poor like he has done, a few weeks after saying he was happy with the team? would they have left the transfer disgrace unfold for 2 months like Moyes and the board did?


can he turn it around? yes of course he can, but first thing Moyes needs to do, is shut his mouth and stop the nonsense he is coming out with, the bulls*it excuses and negativity.

Then he needs to start gaining the support and trust of the players and then he needs to pick the best 11 and get us playing great football.

i will judge him properly once CL qualification is complete and weves played about 14 or 15 league games, but so far, his tenure has been an absolute nightmare from the day we went on tour until now. its not just 6 games as some people are saying, its everything.

Hey Homer,


That's a bit harsh though isn't it? I wouldn't say he's 'making a fool of himself' now. I think he' facing up the harsh truth that the squad is perhaps not where he thought it was.


I think he has avoided any bullsh1t by saying out clear - we lack world class players when compared to the other European Powerhouses. This is a fact. Not bullsh1t. It's on every forum. We have been saying it for months / years. Now that Moyes says it, he still gets criticized.


If he came out and said 'We have World Class Players to compete with the best' he'd be called a fool. Now that he comes out and is honest about the squad.....he's still a fool.

IamtheWalrus

Moyes needs time but I'm a little wary of his honesty in his assessment of the squad. Saying Utd need strengthening is telling the current players they are not good enough. If I was a Utd player, I wouldn't have much confidence in winning the next match. Hopefully, behind the scenes his message is different and he's making the players believe.

master-t

Also, regards Kagawa. At what point does he stop getting a free ride?


Even those Kagawa enthusiasts must admit his performances have been well below standard so far this season?


I would like to know why, despite our wingers playing poor (Bar Valencia against Leverkusen), Zaha hasn't got a chance yet, despite being one of our best performers in pre season.

Discodog

I am glad that Moyes has recognised that we need some world class players. I suspect that Woodward agrees however the old guard need convincing. I suspect that Moyes wants to motivate some players into becoming world class.

SAF & Gill left a mess. I think that they were content with dominating a league that has now changed. Continuing the old way means 4th or lower.

To be on par with Bayern, Barca, RM etc will need a lot of money & a big clear out. I suspect that Moyes & Woodward will do this. I also suspect that Woodward will be a quick learner.

tallaghtmick

master-t wrote: »

Hey Homer,


That's a bit harsh though isn't it? I wouldn't say he's 'making a fool of himself' now. I think he' facing up the harsh truth that the squad is perhaps not where he thought it was.


I think he has avoided any bullsh1t by saying out clear - we lack world class players when compared to the other European Powerhouses. This is a fact. Not bullsh1t. It's on every forum. We have been saying it for months / years. Now that Moyes says it, he still gets criticized.


If he came out and said 'We have World Class Players to compete with the best' he'd be called a fool. Now that he comes out and is honest about the squad.....he's still a fool.

How come he could get the best out of players at Everton nowhere near United quality?

homerjay2005

master-t wrote: »

Hey Homer,


That's a bit harsh though isn't it? I wouldn't say he's 'making a fool of himself' now. I think he' facing up the harsh truth that the squad is perhaps not where he thought it was.


I think he has avoided any bullsh1t by saying out clear - we lack world class players when compared to the other European Powerhouses. This is a fact. Not bullsh1t. It's on every forum. We have been saying it for months / years. Now that Moyes says it, he still gets criticized.

no, he should shut his mouth and not slate the players publically. he said he wanted to sign players, then he changed his tune and said the squad was a winning one and he was happy if we didnt sign anybody. then he has changed his tune again when the results have gone back and said that people believe we only won the league as other teams were poor.

those teams have invested heavily, Moyes was aware of this, he knew there were holes in the team, so why did he wait until the last day of the transfer window to do anything about it?

werent you one of the ones all summer who slagged off the "doom merchants" who highlighted the same weaknesses that you now talk about? very interesting to see you so vocal now about our urgent need to sign players, when you were going mental over the suggestion all summer long. a very ironic come down from you i have to say, but at least you finally see it.

funningly enough, alot of the others who were so vocal all summer that everything was great or the "but we are champions brigade", have disappeared in the past 4 weeks.

TheDoc

master-t wrote: »

I think he has avoided any bullsh1t by saying out clear - we lack world class players when compared to the other European Powerhouses. This is a fact. Not bullsh1t. It's on every forum. We have been saying it for months / years. Now that Moyes says it, he still gets criticized.

I think people are in for a shock with Moyes. I don't think he willy wrap his squad up in cotton wool.

He has been relatively passive in the first few months. He has walked into a big job, is playing it a little cool, doesn't want to upset the apple cart.

Eventually, wether it has happened now after Saturday, or will take another stupid defeat, he will realise that he is the manager of manchester united. And that no player has ever being fired for playing ****.

Moyes can tear wallpaper of walls with his shouting, I don't think there is any chance of these players loosing the fear factor of Fergie, if anything Fergie mellowed out, Moyes is a throwback to Fergie in his blood enduced prime when it comes to lashing players out of it.

I've no problem with him telling publicly he feels to win a CL you need some world class players he doesn't have. We have just lost to WBA, Liverpool and CIty in the league.

Maybe he hasn't lashed the players out of it privately, I would say he has, but now he has laid them down the gauntlet. He doesn't think they are good enough.

And I agree, the players have been stink this season. I think Moyes is playing a little something here, and it can work, let's hope it has the right affect, and not the flipside. Alot of successful players querying why a guy who has achieved nothing is giving them flak.

master-t

tallaghtmick wrote: »

How come he could get the best out of players at Everton nowhere near United quality?

But I think there is a huge difference in getting the best out of Everton players, and finishing in the top 10, and getting the best of United players, to finish 1st.

PhlegmyMoses

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what knee jerking? ive been saying for years that our football is poor and alot of our players are over rated, so please tell me where i am knee jerking? i also made it clear several times that i was not sure Moyes was the right replacement and that he didnt do anything to deserve this job. if fans are not happy with the way things are going, they are fully entitled to have this option.

Your point is confusing. this is your post:

we all went ballistic in 2011 when people said we were one of the worst teams ever to win a league.

we called though people bitter and what not, but looks like they were right. this team has been over achieving for years and now that the stability is gone, they are not responding.

So you disagreed with them in 2011 but now believe them? You are using the word "we" so it suggests you were one of the dissenters. Or you believed them all along, as you suggest above. Which is it? If it's the first, you're knee-jerking. Changing your opinion on the 2011 team based off 6 games this season is crazy, tbh.

and to be honest, the problems we have are not just results, the performances have been as bad as ive seen for years - this is all carrying on from what happened during the summer and preseason,but alot of ye on here had yere heads in the sand saying it would all be ok, we are champions etc and completely ignored all the very obvious warning signs that they club was heading in a very bad direction.

So is it only what happened in the summer and pre-season that is causing this or years of mismanagement and neglect on Ferguson's part? I disagree with both, btw, but Moyes can only accept a tiny proportion of blame if this team isn't strong enough in your eyes.

there will be no red faces either, Moyes HAS to turn this around as right now, how he has acted since July is not befitting of a manager of the greatest club in the world. we all laughed at Liverpool and how they treated Hodgson. i can see now where they were coming from and if Moyes doesnt get his acct together, we will head that way.

I actually agree, come to think of it. Of course there won't be red faces. The people in here that are making sweeping, definitive and erroneous statements about the quality of our squad will not be a bit embarrassed when things eventually turn around for the team. They'll just say that their concerns were valid at the time.

BTW, you said that City and Chelsea have world class managers a bit earlier. Please tell me what Pellegrini has done to be considered a world class manager? He has never won anything.

master-t

homerjay2005 wrote: »

no, he should shut his mouth and not slate the players publically. he said he wanted to sign players, then he changed his tune and said the squad was a winning one and he was happy if we didnt sign anybody. then he has changed his tune again when the results have gone back and said that people believe we only won the league as other teams were poor.

those teams have invested heavily, Moyes was aware of this, he knew there were holes in the team, so why did he wait until the last day of the transfer window to do anything about it?

werent you one of the ones all summer who slagged off the "doom merchants" who highlighted the same weaknesses that you now talk about? very interesting to see you so vocal now about our urgent need to sign players, when you were going mental over the suggestion all summer long. a very ironic come down from you i have to say, but at least you finally see it.

funningly enough, alot of the others who were so vocal all summer that everything was great or the "but we are champions brigade", have disappeared in the past 4 weeks.

So many wrong things with that mumble it's actually funny.


A) I never once said we didn't need to sign players, so me saying we need to sign players is neither Ironic, a come down or a revelation. I simply asked you repeatedly to calm the f**k down for I feared for your mental health. Perhaps the reason so many people have stopped posting in the forum - that would be you.

Going mental over the suggestion of us signing players? I'm sorry what? Please show me the post where I said or suggested it was mental that we needed to sign anyone. I said Fellaini was a signing that would be completed but would love another. Stated my utter disappointment that we missed out on Herrara also.

C) You're opinion is now Moyes should 'Shut his mouth' just about sums up everything. He has been vocal about his disappointment in the results, has admitted we are under performing and also admitted he needs to sign players. He didn't want to do this in the first few months as he was perhaps settling into the biggest job of his career and needed to realise the size and ability of his current squad. He is not using any excuses, but offering the harsh truth that we are not good enough to win the CL and that the team needs strengthening (perhaps a call out to the hoard who did not back him in the summer maybe).


But your opinion is he should just shut his mouth.................how ironic.

I am pie

tallaghtmick wrote: »

How come he could get the best out of players at Everton nowhere near United quality?

Liverpool fan's perspective:

Different mentality, he had the players united around the underdog motif at Everton. Getting them to prove people wrong, he had a squad that fought for each other.

United aren't "united" this season, for me old red nose's greatest attribute was motivation, his players were literally scared to lose. He got more out of them than you would believe possible. So many late goals and comebacks because they knew if they flogged themselves and lost 2-0 they would not suffer as much as if they did sitting back and taking a 1-0 loss, his force of character drove those players to give more than they knew they could. That respect, bordering on fear, isn't there this year for me with Moyes. No manager can bring that same motivational ability to the table in the same way that whiskey face could, so Utd will need to buy ability. The same tough decisions in replacing coaches need to be made with replacing the veterans. Giggs and Ferdinand need to go or play reduced roles, the chaff around the edges of the team need to go..cleverly, buttland, anderson, valencia etc. These are all mid table players, not bad players but not European champs which is were you lot want to be, justifiably. You should be looking at your team and thinking "which of these would start for one of the money is no object clubs" or which would start for Bayern Munich. Seriously, right now only Rooney, VP, maybe Vidic if he can get his form back, De Gea can be good when his head is right but he has the air of lunatic about him. Kagawa came with a big repuation but looks unsettled and unable to adapt when he gets gametime. The rest are not at that level. Evra was definitely one of the best LBs in Europe but he looks to be suffering the last year or so.


ps...All this "we might not be good enough" carry on just sounds so much like Hodgons.

tallaghtmick

master-t wrote: »

But I think there is a huge difference in getting the best out of Everton players, and finishing in the top 10, and getting the best of United players, to finish 1st.

Heres a quick quote from wiki from their start last year, 1 loss we have 3!

On 20 August, Everton began their season with a 1–0 win over last year's runners-up Manchester United. Marouane Fellaini was the scorer, with a headed goal in the 57th minute. This was the first time in five years that Everton had won their opening league game.[20]
On 25 August, Everton took their unbeaten run in the Premier League to 11 games following a 3–1 away victory against Aston Villa.[21]
On 29 August, new signing Mirallas scored his first and second goals for the club during an emphatic 5–0 League Cup win over Leyton Orient to help Everton advance to the third round.[22]
On 31 August, the final day of the summer transfer window, Everton signed versatile Costa Rican international Bryan Oviedo from Danish side Copenhagen for an undisclosed fee, believed to be £5 million.[23]
September

On 1 September, Everton missed the chance to extend their unbeaten run in the league to 12 games when they lost 0–2 to West Bromwich Albion.[24] If they had avoided defeat it would have been their longest spell without a loss since the title winning 1984–85 season.[25]
On 22 September, Everton beat Swansea City 3–0 to move to 2nd place in the league and ensure they have never lost a league encounter against the Welsh side.[26][27]
On 25 September, Everton were knocked out of the League Cup following a 1–2 defeat to Championship side Leeds United in the third round at Elland Road.[28]
On 29 September, Everton recorded their fourth win in the Premier League after they beat Southampton 3–1 at Goodison Park. The win saw them move up to 2nd in the table.[29]
October

On 9 October, David Moyes was named Premier League manager of the month for September.[30]
On 19 October, Everton signed free agent Thomas Hitzlsperger until January on a short term contract. The German international has 52 caps and had been without a club since leaving Wolfsburg at the end of last season.[31]
On 21 October, following the club's 1–1 draw with Queens Park Rangers, Everton had scored 15 goals from 8 games, their best ever scoring start to a Premier League season.[32]
On 28 October, Everton faced Liverpool in the Merseyside Derby at Goodison Park. The game saw Everton grab a 2–2 draw after being two goals down.[33

What im trying to get at is he was able to get Everton off to a flyer last year yet cant get the reigning champions to even score in open play with the exception of the 1st game.

homerjay2005

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Your point is confusing. this is your post:

So you disagreed with them in 2011 but now believe them? You are using the word "we" so it suggests you were one of the dissenters. Or you believed them all along, as you suggest above. Which is it? If it's the first, you're knee-jerking. Changing your opinion on the 2011 team based off 6 games this season is crazy, tbh.

BTW, you said that City and Chelsea have world class managers a bit earlier. Please tell me what Pellegrini has done to be considered a world class manager? He has never won anything.

to answer your first question, no i am not knee jerking, ive said for years our football has been sh*t and winning titles has papered over cracks. i also said about 2 months ago that us getting to the CL final in 2011 was one of the poorest/easiest draws any team has ever got. add that the the stauch opposition i had to our brutal, half assed approach to transfers all summer and you will see that the term "we"is used to describe the general feeling on here or amongest united fans.

regarding Pellegrini, he has managed one of the top teams in the world and took them close to winning a league behind the greatest team of all time. also, he was a missed peno away from a champions league final. he has other credentials too.

my problem with moyes on this is that he should not say this publically and he had the money and time to get this sorted from July to September, but didnt until it was too late. Knowledge requires action, he tried apparently and failed and that is not good enough. its pretty pathetic that 3 weeks after the window is closed, he is already talking about needing new players.

Vic Vinegar

I am pie wrote: »

Liverpool fan's perspective:

Different mentality, he had the players united around the underdog motif at Everton. Getting them to prove people wrong, he had a squad that fought for each other.

United aren't "united" this season, for me old red nose's greatest attribute was motivation, his players were literally scared to lose. He got more out of them than you would believe possible. So many late goals and comebacks because they knew if they flogged themselves and lost 2-0 they would not suffer as much as if they did sitting back and taking a 1-0 loss, his force of character drove those players to give more than they knew they could. That respect, bordering on fear, isn't there this year for me with Moyes. No manager can bring that same motivational ability to the table in the same way that whiskey face could, so Utd will need to buy ability. The same tough decisions in replacing coaches need to be made with replacing the veterans. Giggs and Ferdinand need to go or play reduced roles, the chaff around the edges of the team need to go..cleverly, buttland, anderson, valencia etc. These are all mid table players, not bad players but not European champs which is were you lot want to be, justifiably. You should be looking at your team and thinking "which of these would start for one of the money is no object clubs" or which would start for Bayern Munich. Seriously, right now only Rooney, VP, maybe Vidic if he can get his form back, De Gea can be good when his head is right but he has the air of lunatic about him. Kagawa came with a big repuation but looks unsettled and unable to adapt when he gets gametime. The rest are not at that level. Evra was definitely one of the best LBs in Europe but he looks to be suffering the last year or so.

Cheeky git.

DM_7

homerjay2005 wrote: »

werent you one of the ones all summer who slagged off the "doom merchants" who highlighted the same weaknesses that you now talk about? very interesting to see you so vocal now about our urgent need to sign players, when you were going mental over the suggestion all summer long. a very ironic come down from you i have to say, but at least you finally see it.

funningly enough, alot of the others who were so vocal all summer that everything was great or the "but we are champions brigade", have disappeared in the past 4 weeks.

You still don't get what most people disagreed with you on.

You were right that United were too slow and did a bad job getting deals done leaving the problems in the team exposed. No need to pretend people were saying everything was great.

PhlegmyMoses

The "world class" comments from Moyes are a bit concerning, though. There's an interesting discussion to be had here with a few questions to be answered.

Define world class. If he wants 5 or 6, it suggests that his definition is looser than top 2 or 3 in the world in their respective positions. No team have 6 players in the top 2 or 3 in their positions in the world. Let's call it top 10. With that in mind, who are United's current world class players?

Who are Chelsea's, within those parameters and City's, for that matter? If we conclude, and I suspect that we will, that each team has around an equal number of world class players, does that mean that Moyes doesn't think that any team in England will win the CL? I'm sure that we'll all agree that this is a load of pony.

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

funningly enough, alot of the others who were so vocal all summer that everything was great or the "but we are champions brigade", have disappeared in the past 4 weeks.

I'm still here

Just getting drowned out by the over-vocal instant-crisis-we-want-instant-success brigade.

At the end of the day we want the same thing, I just feel alot of posters here live in a bubble probably formed by Fifa and Football manager, and don't actually realise how the world really works.

You can just tell there are people that thought this would be smooth sailing, so there is no point debating the whole thing over and over and over and over.

• There is going to be plenty of upsets this season all across the board
• We are most likely going to drop more points
• We are probably going to struggle in the CL, happy if we get out of group
• I'd be happy if Moyes prioritises a cup in his first year to taste silverware of worth
• I think we will be in the title race
• I think we might just bundle over the line

Earlier in the summer I felt we could win the league, but it wouldn't be a stroll, that we might struggle in Europe, and that Moyes SHOULD go for a cup to get himself of to a winning season on some front.

The problem is people are being overly ****ing panic attack in the present. It takes easily a while for the league to take shape, and after Christmas into about Feb( where don't forget, historically we turn into ****ing win machines) we have a fair idea of the story.

I think the reason some of us go quiet Homer, is that maybe we want to hold judgement back until the end of the season where we can be a bit more objective, or even halfway through the season. You've had a hard on for Moyes since day one, so for me personally I'm pretty sick of reading the same trash in the thread week in week out.

master-t

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Heres a quick quote from wiki from their start last year, 1 loss we have 3!

It's not comparing like for like though Mick.


Showing me Everton stats when they played different opposition and comparing their start last year, with ours, is irrelevant.


If you're asking how come Moyes did a great job with Everton, but is struggling with his start at United, then the answer is I don't know. But using stats like these to compare is pointless.

PhlegmyMoses

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Cheeky git.

And definitely going to get a card for that. Stupid thing to post.

tallaghtmick

master-t wrote: »

It's not comparing like for like though Mick.


Showing me Everton stats when they played different opposition and comparing their start last year, with ours, is irrelevant.


If you're asking how come Moyes did a great job with Everton, but is struggling with his start at United, then the answer is I don't know. But using stats like these to compare is pointless.

Can you say you are happy with no goal from open play since the 1st game though? So many people have missed that fact if it wasnt for Rooney banging in free kicks and RVP's peno we would have drawn at palace and not scored anything in the league since.

I am pie

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Cheeky git.

I was being polite.

master-t

TheDoc wrote: »

I think the reason some of us go quiet Homer, is that maybe we want to hold judgement back until the end of the season where we can be a bit more objective, or even halfway through the season. You've had a hard on for Moyes since day one, so for me personally I'm pretty sick of reading the same trash in the thread week in week out.

I'm fairly sure this is the majority of people's opinions alright Doc. I left the board alone (read sparingly) after the transfer window, as it was the same BS over and over again. No new points of interest, no now thought pieces. Just multiple Meltdowns.


Now I've come back on, it's the same. Go back a year ago.....it was the same. Same people. Same opinions. Same Meltdowns.

tallaghtmick

master-t wrote: »

I'm fairly sure this is the majority of people's opinions alright Doc. I left the board alone (read sparingly) after the transfer window, as it was the same BS over and over again. No new points of interest, no now thought pieces. Just multiple Meltdowns.


Now I've come back on, it's the same. Go back a year ago.....it was the same. Same people. Same opinions. Same Meltdowns.

Now now we had grammar Nazi's yesterday :pac:

Irish94

I am pie wrote: »

Liverpool fan's perspective:

Different mentality, he had the players united around the underdog motif at Everton. Getting them to prove people wrong, he had a squad that fought for each other.

United aren't "united" this season, for me old red nose's greatest attribute was motivation, his players were literally scared to lose. He got more out of them than you would believe possible. So many late goals and comebacks because they knew if they flogged themselves and lost 2-0 they would not suffer as much as if they did sitting back and taking a 1-0 loss, his force of character drove those players to give more than they knew they could. That respect, bordering on fear, isn't there this year for me with Moyes. No manager can bring that same motivational ability to the table in the same way that whiskey face could, so Utd will need to buy ability. The same tough decisions in replacing coaches need to be made with replacing the veterans. Giggs and Ferdinand need to go or play reduced roles, the chaff around the edges of the team need to go..cleverly, buttland, anderson, valencia etc. These are all mid table players, not bad players but not European champs which is were you lot want to be, justifiably. You should be looking at your team and thinking "which of these would start for one of the money is no object clubs" or which would start for Bayern Munich. Seriously, right now only Rooney, VP, maybe Vidic if he can get his form back, De Gea can be good when his head is right but he has the air of lunatic about him. Kagawa came with a big repuation but looks unsettled and unable to adapt when he gets gametime. The rest are not at that level. Evra was definitely one of the best LBs in Europe but he looks to be suffering the last year or so.


ps...All this "we might not be good enough" carry on just sounds so much like Hodgons.

master-t

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Can you say you are happy with no goal from open play since the 1st game though? So many people have missed that fact if it wasnt for Rooney banging in free kicks and RVP's peno we would have drawn at palace and not scored anything in the league since.

Absolutely not. Nor have I suggested all is great. I just think comparing stats with Everton from last year is redundant.


The fact we havn't scored goals is worrying. The fact RvP looks starved is worrying. The fact Rooney looks determined is positive. But other than that, not much positives this season.


Go back to when Rooney's form dropped, and Berba picked up the pieces. It happens. RvP form drops, Rooney is there.


i'm more concerned about the wingers and CMs.

PhlegmyMoses

homerjay2005 wrote: »

to answer your first question, no i am not knee jerking, ive said for years our football has been sh*t and winning titles has papered over cracks. i also said about 2 months ago that us getting to the CL final in 2011 was one of the poorest/easiest draws any team has ever got. add that the the stauch opposition i had to our brutal, half assed approach to transfers all summer and you will see that the term "we"is used to describe the general feeling on here or amongest united fans.

regarding Pellegrini, he has managed one of the top teams in the world and took them close to winning a league behind the greatest team of all time. also, he was a missed peno away from a champions league final. he has other credentials too.

my problem with moyes on this is that he should not say this publically and he had the money and time to get this sorted from July to September, but didnt until it was too late. Knowledge requires action, he tried apparently and failed and that is not good enough. its pretty pathetic that 3 weeks after the window is closed, he is already talking about needing new players.

So if our football has been **** for years, why does Moyes have to fix things "right now" as you suggested earlier? Surely you of all people should be counselling patience as you surely can't expect any manager to come in and fix years of terrible football over the space of 6 games?

As for Pellegrini, you're being very kind. You could spin it like this: He had a decent amount of money at Villareal and some of the best players in the world in his team. A good CL run isn't anything hugely impressive. He also failed at Madrid. Not winning the league or CL with a team that spends more money than anyone else is a failure, not matter what way you look at it.

I believe that he is a good manager, but world class? He'd have to actually win something to be even considered for such high praise.

J. Marston

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I've no issues with Moyes ignoring SAF's advice. Moyes is the manager. Fergie is gone.

We needed a smooth as possible transition and keeping the coaches who the players were used to and who have helped the club through a sustained period of success would have helped that. It would have been sensible.

But no, Moyes saw fit to bring his cronies with him.

tallaghtmick

master-t wrote: »

Absolutely not. Nor have I suggested all is great. I just think comparing stats with Everton from last year is redundant.


The fact we havn't scored goals is worrying. The fact RvP looks starved is worrying. The fact Rooney looks determined is positive. But other than that, not much positives this season.


Go back to when Rooney's form dropped, and Berba picked up the pieces. It happens. RvP form drops, Rooney is there.


i'm more concerned about the wingers and CMs.

I understand but where im coming from is Moyes isnt delivering the right tactics to do this picking the wrong players etc.

master-t

tallaghtmick wrote: »

I understand but where im coming from is Moyes isnt delivering the right tactics to do this picking the wrong players etc.

I'd agree with you that I share the concern regarding his team selections.


For me, Anderson and Buttner are not good enough and should be dropped. Why doesn't Fabio play LB if Evra is being rested? Why is Zaha not being given a chance when our wingers have been so poor? Why is Rio being asked to play so many games when his form has been poor?


All concerns.


Januzaj's contract issue? Major concern.

Julez

master-t wrote: »

Januzaj's contract issue? Major concern.

I'm not hugely concerned about this, Moyes has been showing him a lot of faith and giving him games, its not like the Pogba situation where he wasn't being picked. If he didn't want to sign I'd say Moyes wouldn't be playing him.

martingriff

I remember a few months ago there was a thread could Man Utd go like Liverpool and there were loads who said no that they were big loads of money and great scouts. Now I am not saying they will go down like Liverpool did but to sugest life would continue as normall was idiotic. There is allways a bedding in time and also some players are getting near there end.

There is a few on here complaing Moyes should not have got the job as he was in a small time club but do not forget your greatest manager SAF came from a small time club had mant lean years and was 1 game from brrn sacked

RasTa

Julez wrote: »

I'm not hugely concerned about this, Moyes has been showing him a lot of faith and giving him games, its not like the Pogba situation where he wasn't being picked. If he didn't want to sign I'd say Moyes wouldn't be playing him.

It is if Barca are sniffing around, not so much Juve.

TheDoc

martingriff wrote: »

I remember a few months ago there was a thread could Man Utd go like Liverpool and there were loads who said no that they were big loads of money and great scouts. Now I am not saying they will go down like Liverpool did but to sugest life would continue as normall was idiotic. There is allways a bedding in time and also some players are getting near there end.

There is a few on here complaing Moyes should not have got the job as he was in a small time club but do not forget your greatest manager SAF came from a small time club had mant lean years and was 1 game from brrn sacked

The only way we would turn into Liverpool is the fans having knee jerk reactions and calling for blood, where the board feels obliged.

Then begins the revolving door of managers all trying to reclaim past glories, and the club goes into freefall.

Give your manager some breathing space, time, confidence and backing ,and let him forge his own legend.

Or, turn into Llerpool, Chelsea and City, flashes of success and brilliance brushed with the more common harpering in the past.

Chelsea have gone full hog, by literally bringing back in the manager who got them that success. I cack myself at people calling them title contenders and our biggest rival, your having a laugh.

Spurs and Arsenal look stronger title contenders then Chelsea to me at the moment.

titan18

Other than last year, Everton have usually had poor starts to the season before picking it up later in the year. Maybe, it's just a problem Moyes has, or something he's doing wrong in pre season that he starts badly. He'll need to pick it up soon though

Mitch Connor

So, team for the CL this week?

---

De Gea
Rafael--Evans---Vidic----Evra

Valencia-Carrick-Fellaini-Nani

---

Rooney--Van Persie

Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Cleverley, Jones, Evans, Amos.

Surely Rio is going to get dropped/rested from this one after the last few performances. I would like Kagawa to play, but I would be shocked if Moyes persisted with him, though I think he should. Reckon Valencia will come back in for him. Anderson bound to be dumped too - with Fellaini starting. Rooney and RVP starting seems a no brainer as well.

if Rio is dropped, it has to be Smalling or Evans coming in for him - would imagine Moyes will go with Evans, but Smalling has more proven fitness so that could get him the nod.

We need a result, even a draw, in this game. We need a solid performance.

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We need a result, even a draw, in this game. We need a solid performance.

id gladly take a 0-0 tomorrow night, a tough game out of the way and a clean sheet.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

id gladly take a 0-0 tomorrow night, a tough game out of the way and a clean sheet.

wednesday night, unfortunately.

SirDelboy18

Hope we don't have an issue when Barcelona need a new keeper next summer, although that is way down my current list of worries.

Blatter

Having to play Sunderland away only 3 days after a tough trip to Ukraine with the team in bad form is not ideal to say the least! Surprised nobody mentioned this, it's a real concern.

SirDelboy18

Blatter wrote: »

Having to play Sunderland away only 3 days after a tough trip to Ukraine with the team in bad form is not ideal to say the least! Surprised nobody mentioned this, it's a real concern.

If they appoint a new manager, that high could propel them into their best performance of the season.

Might not though. As it stands they are rubbish - any side with top 10 aspirations would comfortably beat them.

Blatter

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

If they appoint a new manager, that high could propel them into their best performance of the season.

Might not though. As it stands they are rubbish - any side with top 10 aspirations would comfortably beat them.

True, they should be beaten regardless as they are awful. Against Liverpool though they did try hard and there seemed to be a bit of unity among them. The shape of our team has been very messy over the last two games and condition wise Sunderland will have an edge. Can see it being a tricky game.

Vic Vinegar

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

If they appoint a new manager, that high could propel them into their best performance of the season.

Might not though. As it stands they are rubbish - any side with top 10 aspirations would comfortably beat them.

Ball will be in charge again for Saturday, confirmed by SSN.

Your Airbag

FYI

OptaJoeVerified account ‏@OptaJoe 31 - Michael Carrick has made more interceptions than any other player in the 2013-14 Premier League. Patrolling.

https://twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/384657483483975680

homerjay2005

Blatter wrote: »

Having to play Sunderland away only 3 days after a tough trip to Ukraine with the team in bad form is not ideal to say the least! Surprised nobody mentioned this, it's a real concern.

yes, its definately something that could be a potential problem, especially the fact we have picked up 3 points from 12 and things appear to be in turmoil at the moment.

we tend to drop most of our points in away games, after Euro trips. however, people are not yet thinking about the game, as we have another one to play first and the state of the team at the moment, is keeping people occupied until then.

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm still here

Just getting drowned out by the over-vocal instant-crisis-we-want-instant-success brigade.

At the end of the day we want the same thing, I just feel alot of posters here live in a bubble probably formed by Fifa and Football manager, and don't actually realise how the world really works.

You can just tell there are people that thought this would be smooth sailing, so there is no point debating the whole thing over and over and over and over.

• There is going to be plenty of upsets this season all across the board
• We are most likely going to drop more points
• We are probably going to struggle in the CL, happy if we get out of group
• I'd be happy if Moyes prioritises a cup in his first year to taste silverware of worth
• I think we will be in the title race
• I think we might just bundle over the line

Earlier in the summer I felt we could win the league, but it wouldn't be a stroll, that we might struggle in Europe, and that Moyes SHOULD go for a cup to get himself of to a winning season on some front.

The problem is people are being overly ****ing panic attack in the present. It takes easily a while for the league to take shape, and after Christmas into about Feb( where don't forget, historically we turn into ****ing win machines) we have a fair idea of the story.

I think the reason some of us go quiet Homer, is that maybe we want to hold judgement back until the end of the season where we can be a bit more objective, or even halfway through the season. You've had a hard on for Moyes since day one, so for me personally I'm pretty sick of reading the same trash in the thread week in week out.

Well said.

I'm sick of the essay upon essay "things are tits up" lets top up the previous doom and gloom with the latest mishap and regurgitate it, then dismiss it as knee jerking and state its an opinion that's entitled to be written over and over again.

There's problems, they've been identified (in full we hope), now lets see how United react to it on and off the pitch...

What I'd like to see now is a sturdier solid consistent XI over the next 5 to 6 games and for Moyes to be a little bit more assurred and confident in the press