Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

martingriff

TheDoc wrote: »

The only way we would turn into Liverpool is the fans having knee jerk reactions and calling for blood, where the board feels obliged.

Then begins the revolving door of managers all trying to reclaim past glories, and the club goes into freefall.

Give your manager some breathing space, time, confidence and backing ,and let him forge his own legend.

Or, turn into Llerpool, Chelsea and City, flashes of success and brilliance brushed with the more common harpering in the past.

Chelsea have gone full hog, by literally bringing back in the manager who got them that success. I cack myself at people calling them title contenders and our biggest rival, your having a laugh.

Spurs and Arsenal look stronger title contenders then Chelsea to me at the moment.

My manager is Rodgers. I do agree with giving a manager time. That was the point though I may not have said it much

keane2097

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

If they appoint a new manager, that high could propel them into their best performance of the season.

Might not though. As it stands they are rubbish - any side with top 10 aspirations would comfortably beat them.

I've never seen any data that backs up the bit in bold. Everyone always says "new man in charge they'll up their game" or whatever, but as far as I remember when I investigated it a couple of years ago teams with new managers perform no better on average.

tallaghtmick

Imagine we lost at Sunderland.......

I thought we played well but you know Sunderland they are full of World class payers

:pac:

GK1001

gave this a wide berth since the Chelsea game...came back for a quick look...as expected...pass for another while...truly is the stereotype for a fan forum...too much drivel to wade through to get to any worthwhile content...pity, as I love discussing United...as they say though you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family...

Danye

GK1001 wrote: »

gave this a wide berth since the Chelsea game...came back for a quick look...as expected...pass for another while...truly is the stereotype for a fan forum...too much drivel to wade through to get to any worthwhile content...pity, as I love discussing United...as they say though you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family...

Well why not offer your views and opinions and we can discus them?

GK1001

Danye wrote: »

Well why not offer your views and opinions and we can discus them?

Have done mate, many times over the summer but to come in time and again and see the same opinion by the same people...i'm just bored with it

but to answer your Q anyway and slightly cheating...I'd agree with everything TheDoc has posted in the last few of pages...couldn't have put it better to be honest

Rayne Wooney

Kagawa played well in the only game of the season we used a formation that suited him, against Leverkusen. I don't know how people can judge him after playing left wing, it's obviously not his position and you just have to read quotes from his old manager to see that he's wasted out there.

Also the club have played Jan in PL games and he's only 18, it shows they believe he can become a good player, it's out of the club's hands now whether he signs or not. If he doesn't we really have to question why two of the brightest young talents we've ever had have left within the space of 3 years, Pogba to Juve and Jan with a chance of moving to Barca.

keane2097

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

... we really have to question why two of the brightest young talents we've ever had have left within the space of 3 years, Pogba to Juve and Jan with a chance of moving to Barca.

Probably Moyes' fault.

Donnielighto

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Moyes needs time but I'm a little wary of his honesty in his assessment of the squad. Saying Utd need strengthening is telling the current players they are not good enough. If I was a Utd player, I wouldn't have much confidence in winning the next match. Hopefully, behind the scenes his message is different and he's making the players believe.

Coherent discussion showing restraint and at the same time apprehension about moyes. A large number could learn from you about how to make a balanced point.

This thread is gettin depressing with lads having the knifes out sharpening them for months with some faux "I'll always back the manager but...." spiel.

Pro. F

The only thing that is really annoying me right now is how Moyes' is talking in the press. I really don't like this talking down the team that he has started doing. It sounds so much like excuse making and I wouldn't like the players to be thinking that way.

Obviously annoyed by the defeat at the weekend but I could see some signs of improvement in the team's play, mostly because of Nani and Kagawa/Januzaj were playing instead of Young and Valencia. There is still a lot of improvement needed, especially with creativity through the middle imo. I think far too much is being asked of Rooney and he started to look tired and started to make more mistakes as the game went on I thought. The better defenders also need to play, but that will be simple enough for Moyes to work out.

Lots of fans on here complaining that nothing has changed with the team's play since Moyes took over, but I strongly disagree with that. The passing patterns seem to be very different (I would guess that Moyes is using more pre-planned passing combinations, but that's just a guess) and the way the team presses is changed a lot too. I don't know if Moyes' style will be very effective in the long term, but it looks obvious to me that the team is still getting used to it and Moyes is still looking for his best starting eleven. So patience is still in order.

Another thing I've read a lot is posters giving out about Moyes having changed the back room staff. It is a daft criticism of a new manager. Of course he was going to change the staff. It shows he wants to be his own man and that he has his own system he wants to implement. It was absolutely the right decision.

Danye

keane2097 wrote: »

I've never seen any data that backs up the bit in bold. Everyone always says "new man in charge they'll up their game" or whatever, but as far as I remember when I investigated it a couple of years ago teams with new managers perform no better on average.

Fergie said it in his first autobiography.

It must be true 😀

Kerrydude1981

Gary Neville just on about the WBA game,picking out examples of the defending too deep and the non reaction by the players to getting the equalizing goal to make it 1 all and just standing off players giving WBA players time on the ball.

Alpha Dog 1

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Gary Neville just on about the WBA game,picking out examples of the defending too deep and the non reaction by the players to getting the equalizing goal to make it 1 all and just standing off players

Good analysis from Gary as Usual, Im blaming Rio for dropping too deep and dragging the defence with him. His legs are gone as is too afraid of players running in behind him. As good as player as he was right now he is a virus in the defence and needs time out for 4 or 5 games to see if things can improve. We have to shortage of cover in this position so there's no reason why this should not happen.

TheTownie

Bollox. Missed 1st half of U21s vs Bolton. Zaha, Januzaj playing.

1-0 Utd at HT. Will Keane scored.

No Crerand either.

Danny Higg saying Zaha is playing very well.

TheTownie

2-0. Januzaj smashes one in from just outside the box. Cut in from right, put it in top corner near post.

TheTownie

3-0 Larnell Cole or Zaha. Missed it.

TheTownie

Januzaj off after 60mins. Himself and Zaha just running rings around Bolton.

tallaghtmick

Osman playing well here tonight..... :pac:

Cantona's Collars

lordgoat wrote: »

What a ridiculous pic. It was Janz culpable for the goal. He doesn't know how to defend and we were shocking on the left in the second half til Nani switched over. He's a good young player but sat showed he cannot start yet.

Also I love how carrick is singled out. Not the lw, lb or cb who are more to blame. lol at how Anderson disappears in the pic. What a useless player. I'd gladly never see him play for us again.

I wouldn't have been one to blame Carrick for that goal but some of his play lately has been below par.The goal was more down to Buttner charging up field than anything.As for Rio's part in it,at least Vidic would have taken a card by not letting the attacker pass.

As soon as I saw Buttner lose the ball so far up the field and then just stand still,I knew we were in trouble.Januzaj tried his best to make up the ground but hadn't a hope of catching the WBA player.

BloodBath

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Thought fabio looked very good on the only shot he has been given. Disappointed he wasn't given the role Saturday.

I don't know what game you were watching. Fabio was awful in the game he was played.

Moyes will be given 100% of board backing to see out his contract. I am happy with Moyes and will back him all the way like i did with Fergie in 1986. There were many wants him out after winning nothing for three years and yet, they jumped into Fergie bandwagon after he wins United everything. Give Moyes a chance to settle in, for God Sake.

Fergie was a proven winner before he joined United. Moyes has won nothing.

What a ridiculous pic. It was Janz culpable for the goal. He doesn't know how to defend and we were shocking on the left in the second half til Nani switched over. He's a good young player but sat showed he cannot start yet.

Also I love how carrick is singled out. Not the lw, lb or cb who are more to blame. lol at how Anderson disappears in the pic. What a useless player. I'd gladly never see him play for us again.

Rio was nutmegged on both goals and had his back turned to the attacking player on both goals. He's past it.

Good Riddance people. Moyes is only human, he made mistakes like all of us. Chelsea and few others sacked managers after few games. We dont want that in United. United should be United together til he proves himself. Look at Arsenal, The fans have been patient with the club with no trophies for 7 years. We cant expect United to win everything every year. Most Moyes critics are United Gloryhunters. Go and find another club that is winnning every year. Barcelona or Bayern Munich that springs in my mind.

Except Arsenal don't turnover anywhere near as much money as United do and Wenger did not have the funds available to buy the players he needed or to even hold on to players he had. Despite this he kept a strong team together with an amazing youth program. He's a great manager.

You're comparing managing at Everton to managing at Barcelona, that's just bonkers. It takes time to adjust to a bigger club, and bigger expectations. A much more relevant comparison is Brendan Rodgers, this time last year Liverpool were lower in the table than United are now. It's going to take at least a season of moving on the older players and drafting in their replacements. Out of interest where did United finish in SAF's first few seasons? Would you have sacked him? Where would United have been in the last 20 years without him?

As has been said 100 times already Fergie didn't inherit a multiple league winning team with the funds at his disposal to sign any players he wanted to strengthen the squad. Moyes did.

I think he has avoided any bullsh1t by saying out clear - we lack world class players when compared to the other European Powerhouses. This is a fact. Not bullsh1t. It's on every forum. We have been saying it for months / years. Now that Moyes says it, he still gets criticized.

Other European powerhouses like WBA. :rolleyes:

There is going to be plenty of upsets this season all across the board
We are most likely going to drop more points
We are probably going to struggle in the CL, happy if we get out of group
I'd be happy if Moyes prioritises a cup in his first year to taste silverware of worth
I think we will be in the title race
I think we might just bundle over the line

I like your optimism but there is no way we are going to be in the title race. We're going to struggle for the top 4 this season unless we bring in some top quality in January.

So if our football has been **** for years, why does Moyes have to fix things "right now" as you suggested earlier? Surely you of all people should be counselling patience as you surely can't expect any manager to come in and fix years of terrible football over the space of 6 games?

Moyes had 100m at his disposal in the summer. He had the chance to fix it and didn't.

There is a few on here complaing Moyes should not have got the job as he was in a small time club but do not forget your greatest manager SAF came from a small time club had mant lean years and was 1 game from brrn sacked

Except Fergie won the Scottish league with Aberdeen, the first team outside of Rangers/Celtic to do so in 15 years and went on to win more league titles, cups and the European cup winners cup with them. He was a proven winner before he joined United.

Good analysis from Gary as Usual, Im blaming Rio for dropping too deep and dragging the defence with him. His legs are gone as is too afraid of players running in behind him. As good as player as he was right now he is a virus in the defence and needs time out for 4 or 5 games to see if things can improve. We have to shortage of cover in this position so there's no reason why this should not happen.

Don't blame Rio. Blame Moyes for selecting him. Rio has been awful in every game he has played so far this season. A lot of goals have come from his piss poor defending and we're lucky we didn't concede more from it.


Will you all be still willing to back Moyes if we lose to Sunderland this weekend?

Kerrydude1981

Just watching Everton,playing with great hunger and enthusiasm,all wanting the ball,full of confidence.

Hopefully it wont be too long before we see the Utd lads do the same and get the train back on the tracks

Rayne Wooney

Barkley is something else, ironically has looked better than Fellaini every time I've watched him

tallaghtmick

Cole is like a black Scholes :pac:

K-9

keane2097 wrote: »

I've never seen any data that backs up the bit in bold. Everyone always says "new man in charge they'll up their game" or whatever, but as far as I remember when I investigated it a couple of years ago teams with new managers perform no better on average.

Read a piece a few months back that said there can be a short term advantage but after a few games that fizzles out, and when you compare it to clubs who stick by managers there doesn't seem to be evidence of much difference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23724517

Pro. F

BloodBath wrote: »

I don't know what game you were watching. Fabio was awful in the game he was played.



Fergie was a proven winner before he joined United. Moyes has won nothing.



Rio was nutmegged on both goals and had his back turned to the attacking player on both goals. He's past it.



Except Arsenal don't turnover anywhere near as much money as United do and Wenger did not have the funds available to buy the players he needed or to even hold on to players he had. Despite this he kept a strong team together with an amazing youth program. He's a great manager.



As has been said 100 times already Fergie didn't inherit a multiple league winning team with the funds at his disposal to sign any players he wanted to strengthen the squad. Moyes did.



Other European powerhouses like WBA. :rolleyes:



I like your optimism but there is no way we are going to be in the title race. We're going to struggle for the top 4 this season unless we bring in some top quality in January.



Moyes had 100m at his disposal in the summer. He had the chance to fix it and didn't.



Except Fergie won the Scottish league with Aberdeen, the first team outside of Rangers/Celtic to do so in 15 years and went on to win more league titles, cups and the European cup winners cup with them. He was a proven winner before he joined United.



Don't blame Rio. Blame Moyes for selecting him. Rio has been awful in every game he has played so far this season. A lot of goals have come from his piss poor defending and we're lucky we didn't concede more from it.


Will you all be still willing to back Moyes if we lose to Sunderland this weekend?

Dude, if you're going to do a ten part multi-quote you need to leave the quote name and links in so we can at least see who said what. Also, ten part multi-quotes are horrible things to read.

IvySlayer

Martinez has got his style going already at Everton, take note Moyes

tallaghtmick

IvySlayer wrote: »

Martinez has got his style going already at Everton, take note Moyes

Eh you cant have a go at Moyes its a transition!!!!!

IvySlayer

IvySlayer wrote: »

Martinez has got his style going already at Everton, take note Moyes

They don't seem to be missing him. Early days of course.

Owen_S

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Eh you cant have a go at Moyes its a transition!!!!!

Even Hughes has Stoke City playing a completely different style of football already

IvySlayer

rarnes1 wrote: »

They don't seem to be missing him. Early days of course.

I've always liked Martinez, he's got Everton playing good football so early already

Tim Howard > Man Utds midfield :pac:

Cantona's Collars

Ordinary man wrote: »

If Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steele are as good as they like to make out in the media, why haven't they been snapped up by other elite clubs already?

Eric Steele has joined Steve McLaren at Derby today.

Rayne Wooney

That is fundamentally exactly the way Moyes had them playing, but with a proven goal scorer to finish the chances off.

Moyes' imprint will be left in Everton for at least a few more seasons.

BloodBath

Dude, if you're going to do a ten part multi-quote you need to leave the quote name and links in so we can at least see who said what. Also, ten part multi-quotes are horrible things to read.

Sorry I didn't mean to quote that much. Post was about twice as long as I was expecting. I'll keep it down in future.

tallaghtmick

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

That is fundamentally exactly the way Moyes had them playing, but with a proven goal scorer to finish the chances off.

Moyes' imprint will be left in Everton for at least a few more seasons.

He seems to have burned Fergies off! I kid people

tallaghtmick

BloodBath wrote: »

Sorry I didn't mean to quote that much. Post was about twice as long as I was expecting. I'll keep it down in future.

TBH I enjoyed the read dont let another poster tell you what to do.

Cantona's Collars

Januzaj's goal this evening: http://thepeoplesperson.com/video-adnan-januzaj-scores-stunning-goal-for-manchester-united-under-21s/

DM_7

Great strike!

Hank Scorpio

cracking goal, maybe he can teach Tony V how to hit em like that with his left after cutting in

BloodBath

Great goal. I hope we can get a nice 5 year contract on him.

Nolars

pick that one out

Headshot

Just listening to what Gary Neville said on sky sports there, head in the clouds stuff

aperture_nuig

Headshot wrote: »

Just listening to what Gary Neville said on sky sports there, head in the clouds stuff

What did he say?

keane2097

K-9 wrote: »

Read a piece a few months back that said there can be a short term advantage but after a few games that fizzles out, and when you compare it to clubs who stick by managers there doesn't seem to be evidence of much difference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23724517

Thanks very much for that.

SirDelboy18

aperture_nuig wrote: »

What did he say?

He showed that between the United goal to West Brom goal - United had like 32% possession and 0 chances compared to West Brom who had like 5 or so chances. He said in that 10 minute period United teams of the past would have pushed on, and they didn't - and that was very alarming.

He felt that Moyes would be given time, he was very confident that he would get 3 years anyway.

1 or two other things but that was the crux.

homerjay2005

aperture_nuig wrote: »

What did he say?

should be all here, off sky sports website.

Gary Neville says David Moyes will get at least three years at Manchester United and believes they can still win the title this season.

Sir Alex Ferguson's successor has come under scrutiny after guiding the club to three defeats in their first six Premier League games - the first time that has happened in the Premier League era - and then suggesting in a press conference that the club will struggle to win the Champions League this year.

Sky Sports pundit Neville was at Old Trafford to watch them lose 2-1 to West Brom on Saturday, but says the United hierarchy will not be overly concerned by the poor start to Moyes' reign and says the former Everton boss will be given plenty of time to build the club in his image.

He told Monday Night Football: "If you think about the early years of Sir Alex Ferguson, he was allowed to develop into a presence. In the first three or four years he was at the club he was coming under intense pressure.

"David Moyes, there's no doubt about it, is still learning to come to terms with his squad and getting to know his players and the culture of the club.

"People have said he's been negative in press conferences and they probably have got a point on that. Manchester United fans don't like sensible and realistic, they like to dream and they want to hear that the club can win the league and can win the European Cup.

"But he's finding out about the club and one thing's for certain; you've got Sir Bobby Charlton in the boardroom and Sir Alex Ferguson in the boardroom and David Gill in the boardroom. That manager isn't going anywhere by the way.

"David Moyes will be given time over three or four years to build a football club and learn the ropes. It takes time and he'll be given time, just as Arsenal have done with Arsene Wenger.

"I put it towards the players. I know a lot of those players and they'll be hurting like mad. A lot of players will go before David Moyes goes because, believe me, they will give him time."

Inquest

United ended the weekend in the bottom half of the Premier League table, eight points behind leaders Arsenal and three adrift of neighbours Manchester City, who thrashed them 4-1 earlier this month.

But Neville says the players will be determined to turn their fortunes around and his former team can still go on and defend the title they won last season.

He added: "People are saying Manchester City can win the title and they're only three points in front of Manchester United so I think they can.


Crisis at United?
"Obviously at the moment there's an inquest into everything and when the mud's flying around some of it is going to stick. At the moment they just have to work their way out of it.

"I said at the start of the season that the players are going to have their biggest challenge ever: can they play without Sir Alex Ferguson?

"It's not just David Moyes by the way; there's players in there who are incredibly experienced and determined. They'll be the ones that are hurting, I'm sure. They'll be at home thinking about the game against Shakhtar and wanting to put it right."

im not quiet sure why people think that fergie getting time almost 30 years ago, is relevant now. different era, different expectation, different squads, he took over a club that was winning nothing and had to rebuild from scratch. Moyes doesnt.

Moyes will not be there next season if we dont make top 4 this year. i sincerely hope it never comes to that.

The_Kew_Tour

Sure against Palace at home when they were down to 10 men they had 76% possession for 10 minute period also.

Owen_S

homerjay2005 wrote: »

should be all here, off sky sports website.



im not quiet sure why people think that fergie getting time almost 30 years ago, is relevant now. different era, different expectation, different squads, he took over a club that was winning nothing and had to rebuild from scratch. Moyes doesnt.

Moyes will not be there next season if we dont make top 4 this year. i sincerely hope it never comes to that.

Not to mention Ferguson was already a winner when he came to the club. I have a bad feeling that his decision to appoint Moyes as his successor might be one of his rare mistakes, only time will tell.

Headshot

tbf saf has made numerous mistakes, nothing rare at all

He's human

DDC1990

http://balls.ie/football/gary-neville-man-united-analysis/

Just in case anyone wanted to watch it.

LuckyCharms

I will never understand anyone using the fact that Alex Ferguson, multiple league Champions with Aberdeen at a time of Glasgow dominance and european champion with same team, being given time with a very mediocre Manchester Utd team as a reason Moyes will get the same treatment.

I mentioned around the time of his appointment that i thought it was a bad move by the club and i stand by it. I think the fact that Gill left the same time as ferguson has caused alot of extra problems for Moyes and Woodward to deal with. The fact that he got rid of some key Utd staff also rang alarm bells. I like Phil Neville but why is he on the first team coaching staff with Giggs? They should start where most ex Utd players start when it comes to coaching.

Moyes is also showing his naivety in transfer dealings this summer too imo. Was not one bit impressed the way our summer transfer dealings were done and the blame for that lays at both Moyes and Woodward imo.

These were major concerns already, when you add in the alarming decisions he is making in matches and the random statements coming out from it, i am very worried that he may not have realised what he was getting himself in for.

I hope he does pull through this and that he has learnt from all these issues but i am also confident that if he doesn't , he wont be allowed cause irreparable damage to the club