Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

lordgoat

GSPfan wrote: »

Whats going on with your spelling Lordgoat? Ha. Are you typing while driving?

Autocorrect on phone. Have and gave and if and of are all the same. Apologies.

Cantona's Collars

kryogen wrote: »

Are people blind to Janjuaz failings as player (right now?)

Calls for him to be starting are a bit much tbh, he is a good prospect, has some definite class, it does show through, but he is not disciplined enough to be starting games right now, someone threw up pics not too long ago to bash Carrick, all I could do was laugh because it was Jans not having a clue how to defend that was more at fault for the goal!
.

I put up that pic,it wasn't meant to bash Carrick but show what was happening between our midfield & defence against West Brom,there were huge gaps for WBA midfielders to run into and it caused panic at the back.

I also posted later that that goal was more Buttner's fault than Januzaj's,Buttner charged down the line,tried a clever ball to Januzaj,lost it and both players were out of the game,leaving a huge gap down their flank.At least Januzaj tried to get back.
Even so,for all Carrick's experience he failed to show any leadership on the field,he does have a bad habit of letting players run past him.Stats mask a lot,he leads the interception table but never seems to throw in a tackle,there has been many times when I've roared at the tv for him to tackle his opponent.

It just highlights our deficiencies in midfield that we have to depend on him so much.He's the wrong side of 30 now and still we clamour for decent midfielders with him still being used as the anchor for our midfield while anyone paired with him has been way below par.Along with this,the lack of quality from our wingers has led to very slow attacking play with poor movement and far too often the likes of Carrick has been left with no option but to pass the ball back or try hail Mary passes.How many times over the last season have we seen even the likes of Vidic pleading for movement or somebody to show for the ball,our play has become too predictable and easy to play against.

PhiloCypher

On the subject of deadwood have Nani or Anderson ever angled for a move away to get first team action in their 6 years on the United bench or have they just been happy to pick up just enough appearances to get medals.

kryogen

chainsawman wrote: »

I cant wait in May for all the doubters and ABU to eat their words. Moyes will come up trumps.

Any reasoning to this theory?

Or is it just blind faith like religion for example?

kryogen

PhiloCypher wrote: »

On the subject of deadwood have Nani or Anderson ever angled for a move away to get first team action in their 6 years on the United bench or have they just been happy to pick up just enough appearances to get medals.

I was gonna bite, but Im gonna play GTA instead

SlickRic

the handling of Rio and Kagawa are easily the two most baffling things currently happening in the United setup.

chainsawman

kryogen wrote: »

Any reasoning to this theory?

Or is it just blind faith like religion for example?

Eh ?

Cantona's Collars

magnumbud wrote: »

i was saying we reacted against pool. i was making a joke.

No place for jokes here,you do know we are in crisis:p

kryogen

chainsawman wrote: »

Eh ?

You say Moyes will come good and allude to the fact that you believe United will win the league.

I am wondering how you got to this conclusion, is it just blind faith or what have you seen that would lead you there?

Im gonna assume its blind faith anyway

chainsawman

kryogen wrote: »

You say Moyes will come good and allude to the fact that you believe United will win the league.

I am wondering how you got to this conclusion, is it just blind faith or what have you seen that would lead you there?

Im gonna assume its blind faith anyway

Oh, Thanks, Wait til May i said. Not just the League, maybe the FA or the League Cup or even the Champion League. I am expressing my own honest opinion. Am i allowed to do that ? Good day to you. No offence meant.

keane2097

chainsawman wrote: »

Oh, Thanks, Wait til May i said. Not just the League, maybe the FA or the League Cup or even the Champion League. I am expressing my own honest opinion. Am i allowed to do that ? Good day to you. No offence meant.

This reads like something written by an deposed African prince.

chainsawman

keane2097 wrote: »

This reads like something written by an deposed African prince.

What a Deposed African prince gotta do with United ?

Cookiemunster

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Do you think kagawa is better than valencia on the wing?

Valencia only plays on the right wing (as he's unbelievably one footed). Kagawa doesn't.

Your question should be "Do you think Nani is better than valencia on the wing?"

The answer to that is going on Valencias form over the last two seasons is yes Nani should be ahead of Valencia on the wing.

As to Kagawa, he's infinitely better than Young on the left.

chainsawman

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Valencia only plays on the right wing (as he's unbelievably one footed). Kagawa doesn't.

Your question should be "Do you think Nani is better than valencia on the wing?"

The answer to that is going on Valencias form over the last two seasons, yes Nani should be ahead of Valencia on the wing.

As to Kagawa, he's infinitely better than Young on the left.

Valencia is handy to have, cos he runs back to the defence unlike Nani. But i admit Nani is a better crosser than Valencia.

lordgoat

chainsawman wrote: »

Valencia is handy to have, cos he runs back to the defence unlike Nani. But i admit Nani is a better crosser than Valencia.

Wrong. Nani tracks back plenty.

chainsawman

lordgoat wrote: »

Wrong. Nani tracks back plenty.

Nah, I dont think so... Respecting your opinion. Valencia was a full back some years ago. He is an expert at it. But I liked Nani alot, great player.

lordgoat

chainsawman wrote: »

Nah, I dont think so... Respecting your opinion. Valencia was a full back some years ago. He is an expert at it. But I liked Nani alot, great player.

Ya he really showed how great he is at it against city!

Common misconception IMO about Nani is that he doesn't track back.

chainsawman

lordgoat wrote: »

Ya he really showed how great he is at it against city!

Common misconception IMO about Nani is that he doesn't track back.

Yeah ,You're right. Apology.

PhlegmyMoses

On the Fergie telling Moyes to keep his backroom staff point. What did people expect he'd say? Nah they're crap, get rid? It is common courtesy for him to try to keep the men he worked with employed. It would have been one of his biggest concerns when he decided to retire that it may have put some people out of work for a while. It would have been poor form in a human sense. from Fergie to not do that but he would have expected Moyes to bring in his own men.

PhlegmyMoses

kryogen wrote: »

Are people blind to Janjuaz failings as player (right now?)

Calls for him to be starting are a bit much tbh, he is a good prospect, has some definite class, it does show through, but he is not disciplined enough to be starting games right now, someone threw up pics not too long ago to bash Carrick, all I could do was laugh because it was Jans not having a clue how to defend that was more at fault for the goal!

People brush over a lot of faults when a new talent comes along, some of it is understandable I guess, particularly when the player is young, and has come through the academy. He is getting game time, that I am happy about, he is not good enough to start yet though, not in any meaningful game anyway.

When we are setting up with 4 defenders, 3 of whom have been centre backs in almost all of our games this year, and Carrick and Fellaini screening the defence, the defensive quality of the front four should be almost irrelevant.

The front four in that formation should be sent out to focus on creating and scoring with defending almost an after-thought. Part of our problem this year is that we haven't occupied the opposition's half as much as we used to. This invites pressure onto the defence as the other team aren't as worried about our forward line.

The fact that Young's final average position against City was further back than Carrick says it all. That is fundamentally wrong and the cautious nature of setting up your team like that can have the opposite effect of ceding too much ground to the opposition and putting ourselves under pressure.

Make them worry about us from now on.

Pro. F

I saw that picture blaming Carrick for the goal yesterday and read the comments saying that it was the fault of Januzaj not defending properly, then I went and re-watched the goal a few times. There's no way the goal was Januzaj's fault. Not a chance.

He gave the ball away trying a pass to Butner - no issue there, he has to try passes like that. He back-pedalled a little and then squared up to the first West Brom player carrying the ball forward who passed it to Amalfitano - he squared up a little early, he could have run that first West Brom player down the line, but that was a small mistake and there were plenty of players already back to deal with Amalfitano. Januzaj then sprinted back and got on Amalfitano's heels - no issue there; he could have tried getting around on the cover behind Rio, but the route around Rio and Carrick was way too long for that; Carrick was in the best position to go and cover Rio, but he didn't do it.

Carrick was at fault for not getting back on the cover once Rio stepped up, if he wasn't going to make the tackle himself the first thing he should have been thinking was getting back on the cover, although he only had a moment to decide. Jones and Anderson were very poor with their covering positions, not bothering to get back at all and so being nowhere to cover when needed. Rio was very poor with his attempted tackle. Butner was very poor with his lack of sprinting back, although he would never have got back in time for how it worked out he still should have tried in case it went differently. Januzaj's fault for that goal is far less than the other players.

Your Airbag

lordgoat wrote: »

Ya he really showed how great he is at it against city!

.

Taking a sample size of one on possibly his worst game regarding defending is not an accurate representation of the player.

He beats Nani hands down in that department every time. That being said I like Nani more, especially going forward.

Your Airbag

Carrick had a stinker on Saturday as did about four other players.

Actually Carrick doesn't seem to be his usual self this season, which is worrying as we rely on him so much.

This is a big part of why we are not playing well so far imo. Last season when Carrick was rested we lacked ideas until he appeared.

IamtheWalrus

I might get slaughtered for admitting this but Utd's poor start has made this season more interesting. Whereas Utd won most games (or if they went behind, you knew that they'd usually come back), this season 3 points is never guaranteed. Much more exciting. I won't be saying this if the season is a disaster but still.

sReq | uTeK

PhiloCypher wrote: »

On the subject of deadwood have Nani or Anderson ever angled for a move away to get first team action in their 6 years on the United bench or have they just been happy to pick up just enough appearances to get medals.

Not sure if serious.

Winston Payne

Our attacking play will not improve with Rooney running the attack. Alarmingly, Moyes seems to see him as the centrepiece of it, thinking that he can be the creative hub needed to regulate our attacking play and unlock defences. He can't. His control in tight areas isn't up to scratch and his passing lacks the incisiveness required.

Donnielighto

Winston Payne wrote: »

Our attacking play will not improve with Rooney running the attack. Alarmingly, Moyes seems to see him as the centrepiece of it, thinking that he can be the creative hub needed to regulate our attacking play and unlock defences. He can't. His control in tight areas isn't up to scratch and his passing lacks the incisiveness required.

Why does any one player have to do it alone?

Winston Payne

Donnielighto wrote: »

Why does any one player have to do it alone?

He's the one tasked with doing it to be fair. In a role that affords him freedom of movement and little defensive responsibility. We're not creating much with him there so questions need to be asked. Again. This isn't the first time we've seen such a lack of incision from him in that role.

bucketybuck

Winston Payne wrote: »

Our attacking play will not improve with Rooney running the attack. Alarmingly, Moyes seems to see him as the centrepiece of it, thinking that he can be the creative hub needed to regulate our attacking play and unlock defences. He can't. His control in tight areas isn't up to scratch and his passing lacks the incisiveness required.

Totally agree with this.

I don't deny that Rooney exerts a massive influence on games, or that he has played very well this season, because that would be silly.

But he just isn't the creative force that the likes of Ozil or Mata are. You might see him ping a hollywood ball long into Van Persie, but you won't see him playing intricate one-twos inside the penalty area, or splitting three defenders with a low short pass like Scholes was able to do.

Its not necessarily a criticism, he offers a different game to that type of player, a more physical bombastic game. But sometimes we would be better with the craft of an Ozil rather than the explosive infuence of Rooney.

Pro. F

Rooney definitely isn't as crafty as other high profile number 10s but he offers more than enough with his all round game for that role. He's stronger, a better goal scorer and has better movement in the box than the likes of Mata and Ozil. The problem is the lack of creativity in the central midfield, not Rooney.

I am certain that if those other number 10s took Rooney's place in this United team they would struggle to create too.

Backstreet Moyes

Your Airbag wrote: »

Taking a sample size of one on possibly his worst game regarding defending is not an accurate representation of the player.

He beats Nani hands down in that department every time. That being said I like Nani more, especially going forward.

The fact is Valencia is overrated and Nani is underrated for defensive work. Valencia looks better defensively because he usually lets Rafael do his attacking duties. Both track back but Valencia obviously more so as a more negative winger.

Kylo Ren

If Giggs features on Wednesday, he'll move ahead of Raul in what would be his 145th appearance in Europe.

Your Airbag

Nuts102 wrote: »

The fact is Valencia is overrated and Nani is underrated for defensive work. Valencia looks better defensively because he usually lets Rafael do his attacking duties. Both track back but Valencia obviously more so as a more negative winger.

No. Nani is a better overall player than Valencia but defensively Valencia is much better than Nani. Nani does defensive work, but at times i have seen him half heartedly defend.

Valencia wins in that particular area every time for me.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Nani does defensive work, but at times i have seen him half heartedly defend.

This is one of those myths that has been repeated so much that people now think it is a fact.

In reality Nani is perfectly fine defensively, particularly for his role in the team.

Vic Vinegar

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is one of those myths that has been repeated so much that people now think it is a fact.

In reality Nani is perfectly fine defensively, particularly for his role in the team.

Perfectly fine yes, not as good as Valencia though. Which is what he was saying.

keane2097

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Perfectly fine yes, not as good as Valencia though. Which is what he was saying.

I think it's an awful lot closer than is being made out. Valencia's defending is very overrated if you ask me. I'm not much of a Nani fan either but I think his is pretty underrated. Rarely see him get caught out.

bucketybuck

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Perfectly fine yes, not as good as Valencia though. Which is what he was saying.

No, thats not what he said, he said Nani was not perfectly fine.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Nani does defensive work, but at times i have seen him half heartedly defend.

Backstreet Moyes

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Perfectly fine yes, not as good as Valencia though. Which is what he was saying.

No he said Valencia is much better at defending. I don't see anybody saying Nani is as good defensively. All we are saying is Valencia is overrated and Nani underrated for their defensive work.

Vic Vinegar

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, thats not what he said, he said Nani was not perfectly fine.

Semantics.

Gringo180

Just wondering why such a huge club like Man Utd did not go for a manager whos CV matches the club in terms of success. I said it before Moyes was appointed that yous should of appointed Ancelotti. This is not a dig at Moyes, but jaysus it was a huge risk appointed a manager who has won absolutely nothing in the game.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is one of those myths that has been repeated so much that people now think it is a fact.

In reality Nani is perfectly fine defensively, particularly for his role in the team.

I said at times, this is the exception and not the norm for him and its not a myth as I have seen it happen a handful of times as opposed to Val's game against City which was rare for him. Nani is fine most of the time but doesn't challenge as well as Val and can lose a player, he tries but is just not as good as Valencia in that area.

Nuts102 wrote: »

No he said Valencia is much better at defending. I don't see anybody saying Nani is as good defensively. All we are saying is Valencia is overrated and Nani underrated for their defensive work.

Pretty much what I was saying. I don't think I underrate him defensively but would say its not his strong point. You could almost say Val is a good defensive winger who attacks well also (or used to at least) and Nani a good attacking winger who can defend.

super_furry

Gringo180 wrote: »

Just wondering why such a huge club like Man Utd did not go for a manager whos CV matches the club in terms of success. I said it before Moyes was appointed that yous should of appointed Ancelotti. This is not a dig at Moyes, but jaysus it was a huge risk appointed a manager who has won absolutely nothing in the game.

Because Fergsuson got to hand-pick his successor. This was a massive mistake to my mind and the fact that he went for someone in his own mold was another error. United need a manager who was at Ferguson's level when he retired, instead they went for one who was at his level when he first took the job 27 years ago.

Your Airbag

Anyone know about Red Bull Salzburg defender Martin Hinteregger. He has been linked with UTD and top Italian clubs, or should I say he has linked himself with UTD.

He plays centre half.

http://www.football365.com/news/2483/8950389/Martin-Hinteregger-flattered-after-Manchester-United-linked-with-Red-Bull-Salzburg-defender

IamtheWalrus

super_furry wrote: »

Because Fergsuson got to hand-pick his successor. This was a massive mistake to my mind and the fact that he went for someone in his own mold was another error. United need a manager who was at Ferguson's level when he retired, instead they went for one who was at his level when he first took the job 27 years ago.

Utd were thinking long term and they appointed a young manager with the view that he'd be given the time to prove himself. I'm sure Utd are pretty relaxed about the current situation, they probably expected it, factored it in and view anything better a bonus. We are 6 games into the season. This overreaction is ridiculous. Moyes has taken on a huge job and is learning.

super_furry

That's the problem though. United are no longer a club where a manager should be learning, over the last two decades they've had a manager at the peak of his powers and to replace him with anything less that is a massive, massive gamble.

IamtheWalrus

super_furry wrote: »

That's the problem though. United are no longer a club where a manager should be learning, over the last two decades they've had a manager at the peak of his powers and to replace him with anything less that is a massive, massive gamble.

Of course it's a gamble but it is worth taking? Yes it is. How many managers have City and Chelsea of late. Does it work for them?

Gringo180

super_furry wrote: »

That's the problem though. United are no longer a club where a manager should be learning, over the last two decades they've had a manager at the peak of his powers and to replace him with anything less that is a massive, massive gamble.

Well said, and the longer Moyes is left in charge the more damage he could do. Hes a decent man manager but my god he does struggle tactically. Very interesting times ahead for the club.

IamtheWalrus

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Of curse it's a gamble but it is worth taking? Yes it is. How many managers have City and Chelsea of late. Does it work for them?

One of the reasons it didn't work for them was Fergie was still about!!

Rayne Wooney

:eek: how old is Moyes' daughter?

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

Because Fergsuson got to hand-pick his successor. This was a massive mistake to my mind and the fact that he went for someone in his own mold was another error. United need a manager who was at Ferguson's level when he retired, instead they went for one who was at his level when he first took the job 27 years ago.

Fergie had won quite a lot with Aberdeen, including titles and a European trophy before Utd.

Moyes isn't at the level Fergie was at then, no way.