Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Pro. F

MagicIRL wrote: »

I was thinking today, with David Moyes taking the helm, would now be the perfect time to reform the United starting XI by integrating youth players? It seems to me that despite United having quite a young overall squad, the starting 11 (RVP, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick all being 30+) is relatively old.

Yes, the team might struggle while things mesh, but getting the likes of Zaha, Lingard, Januzaj, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael etc working together on a regular basis can only come strong in seasons to come.

No the average age of the first eleven is quite young. I think you need to look at it again.

MagicIRL

Pro. F wrote: »

No the average age of the first eleven is quite young. I think you need to look at it again.

My point is five of the first 11 are over 30. I thought I explained that clearly enough above.

Backstreet Moyes

bucketybuck wrote: »

I guess Jesse Lingard is now at a higher level than Danny Wellbeck.

On a more serious note what do people make of him. I have not seen much of him but he has an eye for a goal. On pre season i thought he was average enough general. But he kept finding himself in good positions to score and obviously has done that so far on loan. Does anybody think he can make it at United or just probably be a decent premier league player.

BloodBath

That was my point as well. I have no problem playing older players who are performing on the pitch. The fact is most of the old guard are not performing on the pitch so why continue playing them week in week out?

I still think Vidic is a rock in defence and a great leader so he should be there.

Carrick I'm sure will get his **** together as the season goes on but at the moment I'd like to see Fellaini get more game time. I will stand by the opinion that we can't play both of them together and expect the midfield to be good.

Rio is past it. He's 35. He's not going to relive his former glories and should be nothing more than a squad player at the moment.

Evra is still a top level player but will have to be replaced soon as he's not getting any younger.

Of course the tough part is the balancing act between young players and older experienced players. Results are all that count. Hopefully tonight we see a good team selection and a solid performance.

Welbeck is a striker who can't score goals. Lot's of potential but totally over rated at the moment.

Pro. F

MagicIRL wrote: »

My point is five of the first 11 are over 30. I thought I explained that clearly enough above.

You said the starting 11 is relatively old. It isn't and five players over 30 doesn't make it that way. There is absolutely no issue with the age of this team.

Backstreet Moyes

BloodBath wrote: »

That was my point as well. I have no problem playing older players who are performing on the pitch. The fact is most of the old guard are not performing on the pitch so why continue playing them week in week out?

I still think Vidic is a rock in defence and a great leader so he should be there.

Carrick I'm sure will get his **** together as the season goes on but at the moment I'd like to see Fellaini get more game time. I will stand by the opinion that we can't play both of them together and expect the midfield to be good.

Rio is past it. He's 35. He's not going to relive his former glories and should be nothing more than a squad player at the moment.

Evra is still a top level player but will have to be replaced soon as he's not getting any younger.

Of course the tough part is the balancing act between young players and older experienced players. Results are all that count. Hopefully tonight we see a good team selection and a solid performance.

Fellaini has played one proper game and was totally sh!te also. Carrick is a vital player a few bad games doesn't mean he should be dropped. Do you think RVP should be dropped because on recent form he has been poor.

BloodBath

RVP has been poor because the service from midfield and wings has been poor. He has still scored from half chances.

Backstreet Moyes

BloodBath wrote: »

RVP has been poor because the service from midfield and wings has been poor. He has still scored from half chances.

It's the same midfield who delivered the same service last season. He has been poor so far this season for the majority. He has scored half chances and missed easy opportunities and his general play has been poor by his standards.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Good idea.

Problém is results are much more important short term as you can see here.

Personally, I think fans would accept a transitional period, if it were transitional, however, due to the debt that has been heaped upon the club continued short term success is a necessity sadly.

CL 1/4 final and top 4 finish are a must each season, good domestic cup runs are welcome bonuses too. The pressure to win every single game makes it very hard to give the younger guys a chance en masse.

If we were to give the young lads loads of game time all together this season I think we would still finish top 4 more then likely, but its a gamble the club may not want to take due to the financial pressure.

kryogen

Nuts102 wrote: »

It's the same midfield who delivered the same service last season. He has been poor so far this season for the majority. He has scored half chances and missed easy opportunities and his general play has been poor by his standards.

His finishing was exceptional for most of last season, his general play and our general ability to create chances hasn't changed that much tbh, the difference is he is not finishing like a freak of nature. Some of the chances created for him are horrendous alright, but he was scoring some like that last season

TheDoc

master-t wrote: »

Kagawa tends to get a free ride off a lot of United fans, despite being worryingly average since he arrived.

I'm starting to fall into the " I need to see more category".

I think he has great potential, but he simply needs to accept, as do we, the only way to REALLY harness some serious mustard out of him, is playing him in the number 10 role. And I'm sorry, Rooney has that spot nailed down at the moment.

So many people forget, and I keep saying, Kagawa gained attention from playing from the left for Dortmund, not the middle, not up front, from the left of midfield.

He replaced Gotze for the majority of a season and was devastating. He also does it frequently for Japan. So it's not like he is out of position.n

Genuinely believe he is just a little behind the rest in terms of fitness ( looks to have tired in the two games I saw him early into the second halves) and I think will become more regular as the season progress'.

I might be ****ing epicly wrong and the manger doesn't rate him, but Kagawa isn't doing himself any favours at the moment. When he is playing, he needs to show that blistering Dortmund form which was intricate passing that created chances.

It's all well and good doing it in our own half, but he needs to be more incisive in the final third.

Rayne Wooney

Kagawa playing left wing for United isn't the same position he played for Dortmund tbh, and the way United attack isn't suited for him either, though we do have the capacity to attack Dortmund-esque, it's just down to Moyes to make the change.

DM_7

As far as I know/remember Kagawa played at his best behind Lewandowski.

United bought him to play behind Rooney. Then got RVP and SAF never got to develop a way to get all three together in one team (from injuries making one unavailable to Rooney falling out of favour towards the them and).

It may turn out like Veron, right player wrong time/deployment in the team. Would hate to see it work out that way.

kryogen

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm starting to fall into the " I need to see more category".

I think he has great potential, but he simply needs to accept, as do we, the only way to REALLY harness some serious mustard out of him, is playing him in the number 10 role. And I'm sorry, Rooney has that spot nailed down at the moment.

So many people forget, and I keep saying, Kagawa gained attention from playing from the left for Dortmund, not the middle, not up front, from the left of midfield.

He replaced Gotze for the majority of a season and was devastating. He also does it frequently for Japan. So it's not like he is out of position.n

Genuinely believe he is just a little behind the rest in terms of fitness ( looks to have tired in the two games I saw him early into the second halves) and I think will become more regular as the season progress'.

I might be ****ing epicly wrong and the manger doesn't rate him, but Kagawa isn't doing himself any favours at the moment. When he is playing, he needs to show that blistering Dortmund form which was intricate passing that created chances.

It's all well and good doing it in our own half, but he needs to be more incisive in the final third.

You can keep saying it as much as you want, it wont make it true.

kryogen

DM-ICE wrote: »

As far as I know/remember Kagawa played at his best behind Lewandowski.

United bought him to play behind Rooney. Then got RVP and SAF never got to develop a way to get all three together in one team (from injuries making one unavailable to Rooney falling out of favour towards the them and).

It may turn out like Veron, right player wrong time/deployment in the team. Would hate to see it work out that way.

It would be a shame if it did turn out like the Veron situation alright, not beyond the realms of possibility either.

Your Airbag

kryogen wrote: »

It would be a shame if it did turn out like the Veron situation alright, not beyond the realms of possibility either.

A greater tragedy. Veron was given lots of game compared to Kagawa.

Kagawa is turning into a Berbatov (final season) type situation

Your Airbag

Oh and this regarding Moyes in case you missed it.

TV3 showed a clip before the match not many others did. It was Moyes in the pre match press confernce talking about that comment he apparently made saying Utd need 5-6 world class players.

He was asked about it again by a reporter and replied "Thats not what I said. I said to win the champions league you need 5 or 6 world class players in your squad" not that we need to sign 5-6 world class players.

astonaidan

Nuts102 wrote: »

Rooney is a terrible left winger and is a fantastic am. If anybody needs to adjust it's Kagawa he has done nothing to earn the am role. Madness to suggest playing Rooney in a position he hates and is very poor in it.

Sorry wasnt clear, I didnt mean LM I meant LAM kinda like Iniesta does at Barca. He has shown more than Kagawa that he is better at adapting to different roles

astonaidan

BloodBath wrote: »

Maybe you should read the definition of idiotic and come back to me. To say my opinion is idiotic is calling me an idiot. I guess it's a free for all in here though. 0 moderation and total hostility towards anyone willing to offer their own opinion on anything. I don't see ye attacking the guy who claimed Carrick is the best DM in England. Good luck to ye.

id·i·ot·ic (d-tk)
adj.
1. Showing foolishness or stupidity.
2. Exhibiting idiocy.

I never said he was the best DM in England, I said he was the best CM which I changed to one of the best as yeah Yaya is the best. But never mentioned DM, I think hes better as a CM

kryogen

astonaidan wrote: »

Sorry wasnt clear, I didnt mean LM I meant LAM kinda like Iniesta does at Barca. He has shown more than Kagawa that he is better at adapting to different roles

No, just no.

No.

tallaghtmick

kryogen wrote: »

No, just no.

No.

Ok David :pac:

kryogen

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Ok David :pac:

Sorry buddy, Im sure its very witty but the David thing has gone over my head Im afraid.

tallaghtmick

kryogen wrote: »

Sorry buddy, Im sure its very witty but the David thing has gone over my head Im afraid.

David Moyes? Anywho this ref is pissing me off!

kryogen

tallaghtmick wrote: »

David Moyes? Anywho this ref is pissing me off!

Ah, just a poor reference then, cool!

The ref is alright, letting the game flow, (well he was anyway)if anything we should be happy not to have conceded a penalty

tallaghtmick

kryogen wrote: »

Ah, just a poor reference then, cool!

Meow lol

The ref is alright, letting the game flow, (well he was anyway)if anything we should be happy not to have conceded a penalty

Some annoying decisions against Fellaini though.

BloodBath

Our shape looks a lot better and we look reasonably solid defensively with Rio not there and with Vidic commanding the back line. We still look slow though but so far it's a lot better than last week. We're in control of the game.

kryogen

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Some annoying decisions against Fellaini though.

He is a machine to give away frees alright

tallaghtmick

kryogen wrote: »

He is a machine to give away frees alright

Never realised how slow he is though, either that or Shaktar are sprinters!

kryogen

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Never realised how slow he is though, either that or Shaktar are sprinters!

He is pretty slow alright, these flaws were all highlighted before he was signed of course, and he was still a good signing

tallaghtmick

kryogen wrote: »

He is pretty slow alright, these flaws were all highlighted before he was signed of course, and he was still a good signing

Just booked for a Valencia foul lol.

kryogen

Im going to say this in here, as it would be worse in the match thread.

David, I am trying, I am trying really hard not to dislike the direction you seem to be taking the club. Help me a little please.

DM_7

kryogen wrote: »

Im going to say this in here, as it would be worse in the match thread.

David, I am trying, I am trying really hard not to dislike the direction you seem to be taking the club. Help me a little please.

Thought the set up is the same idea/direction SAF would have when going to the Ukraine.

kryogen

DM-ICE wrote: »

Thought the set up is the same idea/direction SAF would have when going to the Ukraine.

You think Fergie would have used Fellaini behind RVP, or would have made Giggs his sole substitute of the night replacing one of our only out balls, to offer nothing?

I would have to disagree

Starting line up, definitely Fergie like, everything after. No, goes against his nature.

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

Im going to say this in here, as it would be worse in the match thread.

David, I am trying, I am trying really hard not to dislike the direction you seem to be taking the club. Help me a little please.

Pre-match interview:

"So David, its been a difficult start to the season, whats your plans for tonights big European game?"

"Well, I figure Valencia is due a good game, so I am going to play him on the right again. I'll leave Van Persie on his own up front, and then Wellbeck and Cleverly can provide the creative spark. If it doesn't work, I'll probably bring on Giggs at some stage so he can do something."

"Get out!"

Lord TSC

The team just comes across as one that is so terrified of losing. Got lucky for the goal we got, then sat back and preyed the whistle would blow as quickly as possible. And one sub used. And it's bloody Giggs

EDIT: Oh wait, Jones got on too....for Welbeck.

Kerrydude1981

Here comes big Phil

Danye

Tom Cleverly. What does he bring to the side?

Paul Tergat

You know, a point is a decent result here.

The performance, meh

Kylo Ren

Danye wrote: »

Tom Cleverly. What does he bring to the side?

Red Crow

Not good enough Moyes. He's been crap so far. Hopefully we can start improving. I just don't see it tbh.

Kerrydude1981

Keno wrote: »

She has more fire power then Utd have atm.

bucketybuck

Paul Tergat wrote: »

You know, a point is a decent result here.

The performance, meh

Forget points, wins, draws or losses, they don't matter.

The performances have been gash all season, thats why people are unhappy.

ician

god we are ****e.

Liam O

Danye wrote: »

Tom Cleverly. What does he bring to the side?

Great squad cover in a position United are deathly short.

Kylo Ren

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

She has more fire power then Utd have atm.

Better pair up top too.

SirDelboy18

Before the match I said I would have taken a point. So that's decent.

But after seeing the match I'm a bit down. In particular, the Fellaini situation (him being bad) is getting more and more alarming.

Nalz

Fellaini was poor, for once I was glad to see Giggs come on

Nolars

watching Bayern pass the ball would depress yea.

Cypher_sounds

Moyes first ever away game in the CL, I think he has done ok tonight, I liked our tactics we were pretty comfortable up to the goal, good result.

Danye

Liam O wrote: »

Great squad cover in a position United are deathly short.

I strongly disagree. Very little influence over the games he plays.