Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Paul Tergat

enda1 wrote: »

Christmas: Rooney to Chelsea, Juan Mata to United and Lewandowski to United to team-up with Kagawa again.

Ye read it here first folks!

its the only place anyone will read it too

Lord TSC

enda1 wrote: »

Christmas: Rooney to Chelsea, Juan Mata to United and Lewandowski to United to team-up with Kagawa again.

Ye read it here first folks!

Are we selling Kagawa to Bayern? Cause thats the only way him and Lew are getting back together.

Your Airbag

enda1 wrote: »

Christmas: Rooney to Chelsea, Juan Mata to United and Lewandowski to United to team-up with Kagawa again.

Ye read it here first folks!

He confirmed in a press interview recently that he has an agreement to join Bayern Munich.

Pj!

enda1 wrote: »

Christmas: Rooney to Chelsea, Juan Mata to United and Lewandowski to United to team-up with Kagawa again.

Ye read it here first folks!

Is Christmas in January now? :eek:

SirDelboy18

Paul Tergat wrote: »

its the only place anyone will read it too

LOL

enda1

Shock and awe, swings and roundabouts.

Paul Tergat

enda1 wrote: »

Shock and awe, swings and roundabouts.

drunk. confirmed

enda1

Not actually. It's more wishes than predictions I must admit.

Danye

DM-ICE wrote: »

As a player in midfield he links things together well

What do you think he links together?

DM-ICE wrote: »

will take the ball under pressure and keeps possession, has good awareness of what is going on around him which helps him in those situations and means he takes up good positions to receive the ball. He can move the ball quickly with one and two touch football.

I would disagree with a lot of this. I dont feel he takes enough responsibilty of the ball in games. He should be looking to get on the ball and make things happen. He might keep possession but a lot of his passes are nothing passes. There should be a means to an end to what he does with the ball.

DM-ICE wrote: »

He works hard when not in possession of the ball and reading of the game defensively is improving.

In fairness I'd agree with this. He is a game, honest lad who's come through the ranks, which is maybe why there's so much affection towards him. But is that enough to warrant you playing for such a big great club?

DM-ICE wrote: »

For the squad, it appears that he doesn't cause problems when he isn't selected.

Yeah he doesn't either in fairness but again is that a reason for him to be making appearances for United?

DM-ICE wrote: »

He is probably better in a three man midfield in Europe and big games than a two man midfield. No problem playing against most league teams in a two man midfield.

He's probably better in a 3 man midfield because he would get carried better by the other two compared to just the one.

Danye

allthedoyles wrote: »

Alex Ferguson is on Sky 502 right now

Saying what?

allthedoyles

Danye wrote: »

Saying what?

Talking about his interest in reading books about wars . -

Said that 12 years ago he started to buy history books and used read them . - He was in London one day at an apprentice meeting and he met Gordon Brown , who told him he would send him some interesting tapes about the world wars .

Alex said he used to listen to those tapes on his way to work every morning

Kerrydude1981

Danye wrote: »

Saying what?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2441671/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-interview-transcript-Pele-grudges-Civil-War-team-building-life.html

Danye

allthedoyles wrote: »

Talking about his interest in reading books about wars . -

Said that 12 years ago he started to buy history books and used read them . - He was in London one day at an apprentice meeting and he met Gordon Brown , who told him he would send him some interesting tapes about the world wars .

Alex said he used to listen to those tapes on his way to work every morning

He's become quite the celeb hasn't he.

I'd prefer him to fade off in too the sunset.

Danye

Thanks fellas.

Your Airbag

Dunphy and Co went overboard on the whole Moyes/Fergie situation, comparing it to Busby and O'Farrell

Here is a transcript of some of the Fergie/Rose interview.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/sport/article3884741.ece

DM_7

Danye wrote: »

What do you think he links together?

I would disagree with a lot of this. I dont feel he takes enough responsibilty of the ball in games. He should be looking to get on the ball and make things happen. He might keep possession but a lot of his passes are nothing passes. There should be a means to an end to what he does with the ball.

Yeah he doesn't either in fairness but again is that a reason for him to be making appearances for United?

He's probably better in a 3 man midfield because he would get carried better by the other two compared to just the one.

Can't multi quote a response to your questions. Also remember I am not saying he is Fabregas. He is a good squad player because of what I said before. If you think a good squad player needs to be at that level we are coming from very different places. I disagree with your opinion on his abilities on the ball but I will answer your questions/points even though its not going to changre anyone's mind.

As a link - He takes the ball from defenders, takes the ball from Carrick and gets it to the forwards, wide players. He will take a more advanced position than Carrick and provides a good passing option that is not a sideways or backwards pass. He can move the ball on quickly as I already said and gets United into a better position on the field.

Responsibility in big games: Under SAF he normally played in a two man midfield where himself and Carrick were outnumbered. He had to play cautious passes to try and keep possession. It makes no sense to force things that are not on. He will look for the ball and move it around but he won't have any real chance to get his head up and push the side forward in those circumstances. Stick any midfield in with Carrick in those circumstances (where they are outnumbered) and he would struggle to play their best.

Not complaining: that point had nothing to do with him getting appearances, only part of what makes a good squad player. He can be left out for a few games, won't bitch or let it negatively impact on how he plays next time he is picked. Its a basic expectation of any good squad player.

3 man midfield v 2 man, its not about being carried its about best use of his skills. Are xavi and iniesta carried by Sergio (i'm not saying he is as good as them!), theynare in certain ways as he helps them use their skills rather than focus on the things Sergio does well in that deep position. Cleverley is best used in a three man midfield in what we call big games because he can take up more advanced positions and use his best skills. He can play deeper as he did v Madrid last season at OT and was doing well while it was 2 v 2 in there.

The_Kew_Tour

That was a decent point tonight.

Lets be realistic.

Jimmy Iovine

1:50 - "What happened between you and Wayne Rooney?"

Expertly deflected by Fergie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHGPYt15USE

bucketybuck

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

1:50 - "What happened between you and Wayne Rooney?"

Expertly deflected by Fergie.

Fergie looks a lot healthier in that video than he did in his last few months as manager, its good to see.

Danye

DM-ICE wrote: »

Can't multi quote a response to your questions. Also remember I am not saying he is Fabregas. He is a good squad player because of what I said before. If you think a good squad player needs to be at that level we are coming from very different places. I disagree with your opinion on his abilities on the ball but I will answer your questions/points even though its not going to changre anyone's mind.

I'm not saying he needs to be at Fabregas level because if he was anywhere near it we wouldnt be having this conversation. I do think you need to be at s certain level though to be a squad player for a club like ours were your expected to be trying to win the major honours.

If Carrick and to a lesser extent Fellani were injured and God forbid if it was at the same time, Cleverly isn't good enough to come in and shore things up. That's what Mu definition of a squad player would be.

I believe Cleverly weakens the team when he plays.

DM-ICE wrote: »

As a link - He takes the ball from defenders, takes the ball from Carrick and gets it to the forwards, wide players. He will take a more advanced position than Carrick and provides a good passing option that is not a sideways or backwards pass. He can move the ball on quickly as I already said and gets United into a better position on the field.

He'll drop off, take the ball from Raf, open his body and play it to Evra. Very very rare he'll drop, get the ball, turn and look for the positive pass. As for taking it from Carrick I don't agree. I think it's almost as if he gives it to Carrick and it almost looks as if he's saying "Here you take it. I don't want it"

DM-ICE wrote: »

Responsibility in big games: Under SAF he normally played in a two man midfield where himself and Carrick were outnumbered. He had to play cautious passes to try and keep possession. It makes no sense to force things that are not on. He will look for the ball and move it around but he won't have any real chance to get his head up and push the side forward in those circumstances. Stick any midfield in with Carrick in those circumstances (where they are outnumbered) and he would struggle to play their best.

I again would disagree with you on the above (surprise surprise) and its too long for me to get into and explain my reasons why. But your saying he was often played with Carrick in a 2 man midfield where they where outnumbered and he wouldn't get a chance to get his head up etc but yet this is what Michael Carrick did over the lady few season and in last season he was excellent. If Carrick can do all these good things despite in your opinion being outnumbered why couldn't Cleverly?

DM-ICE wrote: »

Not complaining: that point had nothing to do with him getting appearances, only part of what makes a good squad player. He can be left out for a few games, won't bitch or let it negatively impact on how he plays next time he is picked. Its a basic expectation of any good squad player.

Maybe this is down to the fact that he believes that he's not actually good enough himself? As I mentioned when I see him on the ball it's like he wants to get it away from him ASAP. Shirking responsibility. Maybe when he's not playing he's slightly relieved?

DM-ICE wrote: »

Cleverley is best used in a three man midfield in what we call big games because he can take up more advanced positions and use his best skills. He can play deeper as he did v Madrid last season at OT and was doing well while it was 2 v 2 in there.

How many appearances, goals and assists has he got in these big games that would back up your argument of him being able to take up more advance positions and use his best skills?


Sorry about late response. iPhone is a nightmare to try and quote.

Donnielighto

We'll put a serious end to arsenals run when we get em.

Can feel it in my water.

Danye

Donnielighto wrote: »

We'll put a serious end to arsenals run when we get em.

Can feel it in my water.

I actually think that we could as well. I don't exactly know why as the form of both teams would suggest an Arsenal win.

Red Crow

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Where have I mentioned any of that? My comment was clearly related to the match. What is wrong with people?

Never claimed that you did. I was making a wider point.

Bugatti

bucketybuck wrote: »

Fergie looks a lot healthier in that video than he did in his last few months as manager, its good to see.

Yeah, I know its hard to tell from one interview but he genuinely seems to be enjoying his retirement. Hopefully it'll also end those daft rumours linking him with the Ireland job!

PhlegmyMoses

DM-ICE wrote: »

Personally I don't think Kagawa did much when he did play to deserve more chances.

He did as much as Valencia and Young who have had far more game time. We're already carrying our wingers, why not carry somebody for 10 games who can maybe offer something completely different to the team by the end of that run.

It's what I'm struggling to understand. The likes of Nani, Kagawa and Hernandez are being left out all over the place and dragged off after 45 mins, but Valencia, Welbeck and Cleverley can be sure that they'll be getting regular games when they don't set the world alight.

Just for the record, I absolutely do not want Moyes gone but he deserves to be criticised about how our team has set up in so many games this year and the personnel that he has seemingly taken a shine to over other players that are equally as good, and better in many cases.

DM_7

Sorry Danye I am not going to get into a long counter point argument with you. I obviously see more than you in the player, I wouldn't agree with summary of what Carrick has done in the 'big' games either, I have been over points about Cleverley before on other occasions, we are not going to agree so there is no point dragging it on.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

He did as much as Valencia and Young who have had far more game time. We're already carrying our wingers, why not carry somebody for 10 games who can maybe offer something completely different to the team by the end of that run.

It's what I'm struggling to understand. The likes of Nani, Kagawa and Hernandez are being left out all over the place and dragged off after 45 mins, but Valencia, Welbeck and Cleverley can be sure that they'll be getting regular games when they don't set the world alight.

Just for the record, I absolutely do not want Moyes gone but he deserves to be criticised about how our team has set up in so many games this year and the personnel that he has seemingly taken a shine to over other players that are equally as good, and better in many cases.

I would prefer to see Kagawa over the players you mentioned without a doubt. Safe selections are why he has picked the other players. I wouldn't agree with those selections in some cases, in particular the city game. I would prefer to see a solid midfield with Kagawa or Nani freed up to find space to focus on what they do best even when not in top form, than see Young and Valencia run up and down the wing easy to mark and predictable in possession.

It still doesn't mean Kagawa played well when he did feature or that he deserves more which is all I'm acknowledging.

Hernandez is a good example of a player that has performed and deserves more game time than he has got so far this season (or last).

dahat

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

That was a decent point tonight.

Lets be realistic.

A good point imo but i do think that Shaktar are going to us serious bother at OT,hopefully we wont be reliant on those particular 3 points.

Soldie

In case it wasn't clear enough how much we've slipped away, the City team who tore us a new one could barely string two passes together in their own stadium against a Bayern side many of us would ideally like to consider as competitors. Meanwhile we couldn't get out of our own half and managed only one shot on target against Shaktar Donetsk. Depressing times with major changes needed.

BloodBath

Donnielighto wrote: »

We'll put a serious end to arsenals run when we get em.

Can feel it in my water.

What planet are you on? If Arsenal continue playing the way they are and we continue playing the way we are they are going to hammer us. Arsenal are miles ahead of us at the moment.

Moyes is totally out of his depth. I'm not willing to wait for him to do permanent damage to our team. He's been totally clueless up to this point. He couldn't have had a much worse 3 months in charge. I guarantee you he will be gone by January.

Giggsy11

Good point but awful performance. It was usual away performance, dull, boring and hardly any clear cut chances. It was so hard to watch complete 90 mins when the players could hardly string 2 passes.

No tactical changes at all and lack of subs was baffling. It's not as if we were playing well, changed were needed and Moyes failed big time in making changes. This is becoming sort of trend. Game doesn't go well so Moyes just sit in the dug out in the hope that magically it will get better (against Liverpool) or doesn't make any changes to change the system.

It was awful performance and good that there was City Vs Bayern game as I had that on laptop and United on TV.

The_Kew_Tour

Arsenal are not miles ahead of us.

chainsawman

Normal Service Resumes. Successful Night last night with a point gain plus City Hefty loss. More pleasure to see City loss than United getting a point.:D

BloodBath

In terms of the football we and they are playing at the moment they are miles ahead of us. Arsenal have a world class midfield. We have a mid table midfield.

The_Kew_Tour

Ön that basis we were miles ahead of them after first day of season.

Ozil has been quality signing granted but lets not get carried away

magnumbud

BloodBath wrote: »

In terms of the football we and they are playing at the moment they are miles ahead of us. Arsenal have a world class midfield. We have a mid table midfield.

are you for real? we have a better defense, keeper and a better striker force. aresenal have yet to actually be truly tested this year.

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

Our tactics bug me, in general our players stay too far away from each other

Kryogen made this post in the match day thread and it was spot on. Me and my brother always discuss on this part of our game. This is something Sacchi commented on after our game against Barca. They move as a team and the players are close to each other whereas United is all about individual play and there is no team movement at all. Players are far from each other and they don't move as team at all.

This is what he said:

“It is not a question of 4-4-2 or 4-2-1-3, it is a question of having a team which is ordered, in which the players are connected to one another, which moves together, as if it was a single player. Today few teams know how to do this. Few teams work as a unit – few, really few teams. They are all made up of little groups. There is no great connection, nor a good distribution of players around the pitch.

Barcelona has this. You saw it against Manchester United [in this year's Champions League final], this was the big difference between the teams. One was very much a unit, all 11 players were moving as if they were one. The other was moving as individuals who happened to be in proximity to one another. That Milan team was a team who moved well, with the players very closely linked to each other. It would have been a great game against Barcelona, between two great teams.”

BloodBath

I'm not getting carried away. Ozil, Ramsey, Walcott, Arteta ect are all miles better than anything we have in midfield. They will dominate us in midfield if they don't have a load of injuries by then. We're struggling against very mediocre teams at the moment. What makes you think we can beat Arsenal? They might have been mediocre last year but Ozil really has turned them into title contenders this year. It's pretty indicative of Moyes that he knew Ozil was available and didn't make a move for him. He's exactly what we need in midfield.

are you for real? we have a better defense, keeper and a better striker force. aresenal have yet to actually be truly tested this year.

A good strike force is useless if the midfield can't provide chances for them and ours can't. Likewise the defence isn't much use if the midfield can't hold on to the ball and create chances. They will be under pressure all the time. I have seen nothing from Moyes to suggest this will change.

Nolars

Our midfield is beyond a joke YOUNG and Valencia wouldnt make it into any top side's in Europe, Nani seems to be hit and miss, Anderson will be gone in the summer, Carrick is 32 and has started the season bad. Cleverly will always be a squad player and im not to sure on Fellaini yet. Kags cant get into the team an Giggs is past it. Our passing and support to the strikers this season has been nothing short of useless.

The_Kew_Tour

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm not getting carried away. Ozil, Ramsey, Walcott, Arteta ect are all miles better than anything we have in midfield. They will dominate us in midfield if they don't have a load of injuries by then. We're struggling against very mediocre teams at the moment. What makes you think we can beat Arsenal? They might have been mediocre last year but Ozil really has turned them into title contenders this year. It's pretty indicative of Moyes that he knew Ozil was available and didn't make a move for him. He's exactly what we need in midfield.



A good strike force is useless if the midfield can't provide chances for them and ours can't. Likewise the defence isn't much use if the midfield can't hold on to the ball and create chances. They will be under pressure all the time. I have seen nothing from Moyes to suggest this will change.

What makes me think we can beat Arsenal?

Trophies and head to head past few seasons for start

we still have better team

no way do I fear arsenal

magnumbud

BloodBath wrote: »

A good strike force is useless if the midfield can't provide chances for them and ours can't. Likewise the defence isn't much use if the midfield can't hold on to the ball and create chances. They will be under pressure all the time. I have seen nothing from Moyes to suggest this will change.

and a good midfield is useless if your defense is capable of woeful mistakes.

aresenal were poor against sunderland at 1 all. got dismantled by villa on the opening day. were poor against marsaille. they too dropped points against WBA. the only tough game they have had was spurs and they were lucky in that game. they have shown nothing to say they will stay where they are and looking at the fixture list for them i would wait to claim they are miles better than us until after the next month for them.

BloodBath

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What makes me think we can beat Arsenal?

Trophies and head to head past few seasons for start

we still have better team

no way do I fear arsenal

That was under Fergie. Moyes is clueless and our midfield is awful. They will dominate us. Mark my words.

and a good midfield is useless if your defense is capable of woeful mistakes.

aresenal were poor against sunderland at 1 all. got dismantled by villa on the opening day. were poor against marsaille. they too dropped points against WBA. the only tough game they have had was spurs and they were lucky in that game. they have shown nothing to say they will stay where they are and looking at the fixture list for them i would wait to claim they are miles better than us until after the next month for them.

That was before Ozil was in the team and they still got the results they needed. He really has made the difference to them. I never thought I'd be saying Arsenal would be title contenders this year but they are. They don't have a massively strong squad but their starting 11 is very good.

magnumbud

BloodBath wrote: »

That was under Fergie. Moyes is clueless and our midfield is awful. They will dominate us. Mark my words.



That was before Ozil was in the team and they still got the results they needed. He really has made the difference to them. I never thought I'd be saying Arsenal would be title contenders this year but they are. They don't have a massively strong squad but their starting 11 is very good.

im not saying they are not title contenders but to say they are miles ahead of us is a joke. and actually bar the villa game Ozil was in the team for the other games

BloodBath

I really don't get this optimism. Are you watching the games? The football we and Arsenal are playing at the moment is like chalk and cheese. They are playing so much better than us. I guess it will take the game against them for you to realise that. Watch them totally dismantle our team.

gosplan

magnumbud wrote: »

are you for real? we have a better defense, keeper and a better striker force. aresenal have yet to actually be truly tested this year.

I'm not saying Arsenal are superior to Utd but they're playing a lot better.

You may be correct in saying they haven't truly been tested. However, Utd have and they've failed.

Utd's focus should be on putting together a run of good matches, not on what happens when they meet Arsenal.

magnumbud

BloodBath wrote: »

I really don't get this optimism. Are you watching the games? The football we and Arsenal are playing at the moment is like chalk and cheese. They are playing so much better than us. I guess it will take the game against them for you to realise that. Watch them totally dismantle our team.

or make you realise that you are building them up way too much

bryangiggsy

Anyone else think Fellani was dung again last night...chasing shadows.
Is he going to be to us what andy Carroll was to Liverpool?
Lack of reaction again from Moyes...a recurrent theme

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

In terms of the football we and they are playing at the moment they are miles ahead of us. Arsenal have a world class midfield. We have a mid table midfield.

Hello Jamie

BloodBath

Well sorry that I'm not up to Gary Nevilles standard of analysis. Not many are. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right. All these Moyes apologists are starting to piss me off.

What has he done to earn your unwavering support and loyalty outside of Ferguson saying we should back our new manager?

SherlockWatson

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm not getting carried away. Ozil, Ramsey, Walcott, Arteta ect are all miles better than anything we have in midfield. They will dominate us in midfield if they don't have a load of injuries by then. We're struggling against very mediocre teams at the moment. What makes you think we can beat Arsenal? They might have been mediocre last year but Ozil really has turned them into title contenders this year. It's pretty indicative of Moyes that he knew Ozil was available and didn't make a move for him. He's exactly what we need in midfield.



A good strike force is useless if the midfield can't provide chances for them and ours can't. Likewise the defence isn't much use if the midfield can't hold on to the ball and create chances. They will be under pressure all the time. I have seen nothing from Moyes to suggest this will change.

Walcott is a better midfielder than carrick and fellaini? lolwut?

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

Well sorry that I'm not up to Gary Nevilles standard of analysis. Not many are. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right. All these Moyes apologists are starting to piss me off.

What has he done to earn your unwavering support and loyalty outside of Ferguson saying we should back our new manager?

He is the manager of Manchester United, he is new to the job. It was always going to be a huge task replacing the greatest of them all. I support Manchester United, in doing so I support our manager.

It does not mean I don't criticise him, cause quite plainly I do, plenty, but he deserves time to make the job and the team his. He deserves a fair crack at this.

I have already told you, grow up, stop acting like a spoilt child and actually support your club.