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Mobile Phone Credit - Extra Charge

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    #62
    brian_gall85
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭brian_gall85


    More fleecing by the phone networks, I was wondering what their next step was after they increased the wholesale cost of phone credit above its RRP, I guess I have my answer.


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    #63
    ejabrod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭ejabrod


    Ok, so, it turns out that I hadn't disabled my data connection and the 99c/day charge was incurred (the phone updated location using GPS & data connection.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    centra wanted to charge me 50c to top up


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    #65
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    Deleted User wrote: »
    centra wanted to charge me 50c to top up

    Might be because they now pay 5.11 for a 5.00 top up. Its a setup by the networks to stop people buying from anyone but themselves.

    When you ring now to put in your code, the topup with voucher is now number 3/4/5. The first options are lazer card, DD, whatever.


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    #66
    brian_gall85
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭brian_gall85


    No they didn't, the phone operators wanted to charge you 50c to top up via a shop.


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    #67
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Surely the big mobile phone networks are making money as it is.


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    #68
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    mikeym wrote: »
    Surely the big mobile phone networks are making money as it is.

    So ? Do you think that would stop them trying to make more?


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    #69
    ejabrod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭ejabrod


    When I queried the 50c 'fee' in the shop, I was told it was a PayZone surcharge.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?

    Is the fee (11c mentioned) charged by the operator? If so what is the legal standpoint of charging more than face value (I'm simply asking as I don't know). And if the operator fee is 11c how/why are shops charging a 39c fee? Is it the charge PayZone are charging the shops to have their service?

    I have bought credit from a non-PayZone shop and was NOT charged more than the €5?!


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    #70
    brian_gall85
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭brian_gall85


    Any shop selling you credit in denominations of €5 & €10 for "face value" is doing so at a loss. The mobile phone operators have increased the wholesale cost of call credit to the suppliers, (Postpoint, Payzone and Paypoint), who in turn have passed it on to retailers.

    Since the introduction of terminals for the sale of credit the amount of profit to the retailers has gone from 10% to a negative figure in so cases. Retailers selling the 5 and 10 Euro vouchers are paying in and around 5.11 and 9.99 for them. This does not include the cost of running the actual terminal, ie paper rolls, electricity etc. On top of that we have other overheads which we must pay from the gross profits we make.

    In time I can see most retailers simply removing this service all together as it is now in fact a cost to the business rather that s revenue stream. In short the 50c is split between the retailers gross profit and the wholesale cost we pay for the product.


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    #71
    ejabrod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭ejabrod


    Reasonable explanation.

    A possible more effective solution might be to do away with the physicals (terminal, paper etc) and when topping up, give the shop keeper the mobile number you want to top-up and have it sent directly to that number.

    In that case the mobile operators should actually incentivise retaillers to promote their product....after all the 'cost' to the operator (in reality is €0 as the infrastructure is in place and now most operators use IPv6) in not where it is....the profit margin (for the operator) is what's increasing ....


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    #72
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    ejabrod wrote: »
    Reasonable explanation.

    A possible more effective solution might be to do away with the physicals (terminal, paper etc) and when topping up, give the shop keeper the mobile number you want to top-up and have it sent directly to that number.

    In that case the mobile operators should actually incentivise retaillers to promote their product....after all the 'cost' to the operator (in reality is €0 as the infrastructure is in place and now most operators use IPv6) in not where it is....the profit margin (for the operator) is what's increasing ....

    Who do you thing you are :rolleyes:

    Should? Would?

    Common sense has no place here. We are talking big multinational companies here. As for the surcharge, they will do as they wish, when they wish.

    The last time I challenged them without saying who I was, the cheeky feckers offered to transfer me to the fraud dept! as it was "wrong"

    They dont give a damn.

    Take it or leave it.

    Do I sound harsh? I have heard it a hundred times and am sick of it. Thats why I dont normally participate in these threads.

    (Now waiting for the mods to tell me to calm down.)


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    #73
    ejabrod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭ejabrod


    superscouse wrote: »
    Who do you thing you are :rolleyes:

    Should? Would?

    Common sense has no place here. We are talking big multinational companies here. As for the surcharge, they will do as they wish, when they wish.

    The last time I challenged them without saying who I was, the cheeky feckers offered to transfer me to the fraud dept! as it was "wrong"

    They dont give a damn.

    Take it or leave it.

    Do I sound harsh? I have heard it a hundred times and am sick of it. Thats why I dont normally participate in these threads.

    (Now waiting for the mods to tell me to calm down.)

    First of all I think I'm expressing an opinion, as I am well entitled to.

    Secondly, who the <SNIP> do you think you are?

    We ALL know that the mobile phone companies are ripping us off and have been since day 1 of them trading here.

    It's opinionated, megalomaniac <SNIP> like you that make forums like this intolerable for normal people who (believe it or not) have an opinion (and the right to exercise that opinion)

    If you don't normally take part in threads like this, kindly <SNIP> off to the narcissistic forum (wherever that maybe - but I'm sure you have it in your favorites or bookmarks)


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    #74
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    ejabrod wrote: »
    First of all I think I'm expressing an opinion, as I am well entitled to.

    Secondly, who the <SNIP> do you think you are?

    We ALL know that the mobile phone companies are ripping us off and have been since day 1 of them trading here.

    It's opinionated, megalomaniac <SNIP> like you that make forums like this intolerable for normal people who (believe it or not) have an opinion (and the right to exercise that opinion)

    If you don't normally take part in threads like this, kindly <SNIP> off to the narcissistic forum (wherever that maybe - but I'm sure you have it in your favorites or bookmarks)

    I think you may need a chill pill buddy.


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    #75
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    brian_gall85 wrote: »
    No they didn't, the phone operators wanted to charge you 50c to top up via a shop.

    funny foggy_lad is nowhere to be seen on comments like this


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    #76
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    @ejabrod Please watch your language. Also, take some time to learn how to interact on Boards. Here you can argue the post, but don't attack the psoter

    @lala88 You have been repeatedly warned before to desist from your pointed comments.

    dudara


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    #77
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I suspect the mobile companies want to minimise / kill off the expensive transaction network costs.

    It's probably cheaper for them to do topups themselves from a debit or credit card using their own infrastructure. It's cutting out several middlemen.

    Remember, when Ready to Go launched, Ireland had extremely primitive and restricted access to debit cards. These days almost everyone (who has a current account) has a Visa Debit card. Back a few years ago banks wouldn't issue Laser cards on many accounts and the system was proprietary and quite complicated to implement relative to Visa and MC.

    I think they'll ultimately just move away from voucher topups or surcharge them.


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    #78
    brian_gall85
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭brian_gall85


    They're already surcharging them.


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    #79
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    I dont know why shops call it a surcharge, its not.

    Simply put the price of what is known as a €5 top up has gone up in price 6-7 times in the last 10 years, the networks resisted requests to change the name of the product as they knew that it made it hard for the retailer to up the price to the end user.

    So over the last 10 years they have screwed the retailer as much as they could and eroded the retailers margin.

    In the same way a can of coke has gone up over the last 10 ears and retailers have simply passed on the increase and yet there is no one getting their knickers in a twist over that.


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    #80
    brian_gall85
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭brian_gall85


    I believe it has to be referred to as a surcharge or handling fee from a legal viewpoint.


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    #81
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    dudara wrote: »
    @ejabrod Please watch your language. Also, take some time to learn how to interact on Boards. Here you can argue the post, but don't attack the psoter

    @lala88 You have been repeatedly warned before to desist from your pointed comments.

    dudara

    And yet you continue to let him say what he likes...


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    #82
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    @lala88If he was attacking someone personally, I would pull him up over it too. Right now, you are the poster making these kinds of comments.

    Please do not continue to argue this on thread. Final warning.

    dudara


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    #83
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I know on the continent many of the networks have abandoned vouchers entirely.
    I'm using a small network in Belgium called Mobile Vikings and the only way you can top up is with a debit card, credit card or PayPal account though their website or via a mobile app.

    There are no vouchers at all.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the more mainstream networks start to just push more and more of the transactions onto their own websites / apps and IVR automatic phone lines.


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    #84
    lala88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭lala88


    Yet you let him personally attack businesses, often with nothing to back his claims you, all the time. Boards logic at its best right there...


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    #85
    brian_gall85
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭brian_gall85


    lala88 wrote: »
    funny foggy_lad is nowhere to be seen on comments like this

    I'm at some what of a loss as to what this means?:confused:


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    #86
    Davy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    lala88 wrote: »
    Yet you let him personally attack businesses, often with nothing to back his claims you, all the time. Boards logic at its best right there...

    Banned for ignoring mod instruction. Continue posting with that attitude and the ban will be permanent

    Back on topic


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    #87
    boskela
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭boskela


    Auld-Yin wrote: »
    Wages???
    Terminal running costs (inc. Phone)???

    I'd love to see a detailed breakdown on that.
    I would say the impact is minimal.

    Why? - the shop assistant will get paid with or without the service being given.

    There are a number of services using the terminal so running costs can be spread across them.

    If a purchase tax is levied by traders I would expect it to vary in line with the trader's turnover of the product.

    …

    That said, I'm not a trader, but that's my point of view.
    It's very clear you're not a trader.


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    #88
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    ejabrod wrote: »
    When I queried the 50c 'fee' in the shop, I was told it was a PayZone surcharge.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?

    Is the fee (11c mentioned) charged by the operator? If so what is the legal standpoint of charging more than face value (I'm simply asking as I don't know). And if the operator fee is 11c how/why are shops charging a 39c fee? Is it the charge PayZone are charging the shops to have their service?

    I have bought credit from a non-PayZone shop and was NOT charged more than the €5?!

    Generally shop staff won't know what the charge is and they just say its a "payzone charge" - in reality, its a retailer fee in order for the consumer to access the payzone system from that store.

    Legal standpoint - the retailer may charge you €500 for €5 credit - you have the option to decline and go elsewhere.

    Some stores will use it as a loss making process to get people into their stores and hopefully they buy a cup of coffee (gross profit on €2 cup of coffee = about €1.60, but no complaints about that anywhere and probably considered good value by many)

    At the end of the day it s a service that costs money to operate - the shop's costs are paid somehow - either as an extra fee on the actual credit or as an extra couple of cent on the mars bar.

    I've had payzone try and get me to offer top up services. I looked at the terms and I looked at the costs, I looked at the hassle, I checked what benefits it could bring. It took me 2 seconds to decide against it - at no surcharge and doing €2000 a week, the NET cost to me of offering the service would have been just over €3500 a year.

    At 50c surcharge there would be a miniscule profit and a lot of hassle. Sorry, but for most retailers its just not worth it.

    Would any of those grumbling on this thread work for free? + have the hassles of technical breakdowns, customers trying it on about codes not working and the threats that some customers make to staff (as per a retail excellence ireland survey)?


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