Stopped Breathing.

houbie

Hi all.

Im hoping someone can help us. My partner was in hospital a few weeks ago. We were having our first child.
She opted to have an epidural,it turned out she then needed a section. But something went wrong.
As she was on the operating table she started to feel numb above her waste which was not suppost to happen, she then couldnt move her hands and arms.

A minute or two after this she was struggling for breath.. the doctors said shes fine .. dont worry ect. suddenly the baby was out put to my arms. i looked to my partner and she wasnt moving.. i was then rushed out of the room.

A tube was inserted to her throat to help her breath and she was sent to intensive care.

She signed a waiver before epidural, which i am currently trying to get a copy of.

She is still very shaken by the event. does anyone know of a situation similar to this. something went wrong with epidural. im quite angry about the whole thing.

Esoteric_

You should really speak to a solicitor about this.

Esoteric_

houbie wrote: »

I have never had any dealing with solicitors before.
We dont have much of money at the moment, baby needed loads of gear!
Is it costly to go and have a meeting with a solicitor?

Ring around, and see if one will do a free consultation, or take you on on a 'no foal, no fee' basis.

Peregrinus

Your question is a medical one rather than a legal one. As we don't know why your wife stopped breathing, we can't really say whether it was due to negligence on the part of the medics, the nurses or anyone else. Nor is anyone on this board in a position to say whether the response to your wife's problems, when they appeared, was negligent or not. You'll need someone with a high degree of medical expertise, and access to all the notes and records, to give you a useful opinion on that.

The question of negligence will only arise in the legal context if you sue the hospital, and you don't say whether you or your wife suffered any loss or injury (beyond being "quite angry") as a result of the episode.

I understand that the experience was unexpected, distressing and even terrifying, and I understand your desire to find out what happened and why it happened. I would encourage you not to approach this on the basis that someone must have been negligent, someone must be responsible, since this is not necessarily the case, and a confrontational approach to the hospital will make them defensive, and keen to tell you as little as possible, rather than as much as possible.

I suggest seeking a consultation with an anaesthetist to see if he can offer an opinion as to what happened, why it happened and whether it has any implications, e.g., that you would want to bear in mind if your wife is considering anaesthesia in the future.

houbie

The anesthesiologist paid us a visit.. the paralysis happend after she was given a "top up" of the drug and it went too far up the spine

hawkelady

Is everything fine now , ie , mum and baby doing fine .. If so , I appreciate it was upsetting at the time but your post looks like your after compo..
Speak with the hospital staff involved to put your mind at ease and if any info is required for mums future operations ..
Then get on with changing nappies etc . Enjoy

nuac

If your wife is OK now, with no permanent damage, and if the baby is healthy, forget it.

Be thankful.

micosoft

Where is the negligence?

Medicine is not an absolute exact science - people can react to drugs and treatments differently.

You have not laid out all of the facts but based on what you have said and the anaesthesiologist's statement I have to admit I became angry that despite healthy baby/mother you are reaching for lawyers. Disgusting behaviour in my opinion and causing huge difficulty in our health system extracting tax payers cash for your wallet.

Personally believe that suing hospitals should be banned and the response should be a combination of no fault learning or medical council for gross incompetence/negligence (so they get struck off) and a government medical payment on a monthly basis based on need (so no more multimillion payouts for someone who could live 5 years or 50). Otherwise our medical systems will continue to be plagued by litigants like the OP.

houbie

Im not looking for comp, i want to know what happened to my partner and if anything similar has happened to people out there.
If it is a fault on the part of the anesthesiologist then i would like to know.

we have a meeting with doctors to get her checked out in 2 weeks.

People are saying forget about it if shes fine now... so if a person is robbed and the times stolen are given back them ... you should forget about it ... no harm done! ridiculous.

I work 40 hrs a week and so does my partner.. were not looking for easy money.. just answers

McCrack

There may or may not be negligence. Speak to a solicitor practising in medical negligence to explore the issue.

Basically what will happen is the medical records will be taken up and sent to an independent expert (usually in the UK) for an opinion.

Expect to pay €1,000 to €1,500 to the expert report.

That way you and your partner will have answers.

houbie

thanks mc crack

McCrack

micosoft wrote: »

Where is the negligence?

Medicine is not an absolute exact science - people can react to drugs and treatments differently.

You have not laid out all of the facts but based on what you have said and the anaesthesiologist's statement I have to admit I became angry that despite healthy baby/mother you are reaching for lawyers. Disgusting behaviour in my opinion and causing huge difficulty in our health system extracting tax payers cash for your wallet.

Personally believe that suing hospitals should be banned and the response should be a combination of no fault learning or medical council for gross incompetence/negligence (so they get struck off) and a government medical payment on a monthly basis based on need (so no more multimillion payouts for someone who could live 5 years or 50). Otherwise our medical systems will continue to be plagued by litigants like the OP.

Really?

So people harmed from the negligence actions of medical professionals should just put up with their lot.

For example say a woman has a smear test done and is told everything is fine and 12 months later she presents with bleeding and further investigations show advanced cancer that should have been detected at the time of the smear. Furthermore she now has months to live. By your logic her and her family she should accept the misdiagnosis and do nothing.

That's one example. I have many more.

johnnyskeleton

houbie wrote: »

Im not looking for comp, i want to know what happened to my partner and if anything similar has happened to people out there.
If it is a fault on the part of the anesthesiologist then i would like to know.

we have a meeting with doctors to get her checked out in 2 weeks.

People are saying forget about it if shes fine now... so if a person is robbed and the times stolen are given back them ... you should forget about it ... no harm done! ridiculous.

I work 40 hrs a week and so does my partner.. were not looking for easy money.. just answers

If you are genuinely only seeking to find out what happened, most large Irish hospitals will have a patient advocacy service which you can liaise with.

Ask the hospital to conduct an After Action Review. It should be common practice with incidents such as this but unfortunately may not be the case.

McCrack

I have absolutely no confidence in the HSE investigating themselves or the Medical Council investigating their members or HIQA. If the OP's partner gave birth in a private hospital that will present even further difficulties seeking answers.

Perhaps it's my experience to date but I'm very cynical of any internal investigation being impartial and effective.

McCrack

McCrack wrote: »

I have absolutely no confidence in the HSE investigating themselves or the Medical Council investigating their members or HIQA. If the OP's partner gave birth in a private hospital that will present even further difficulties seeking answers.

Perhaps it's my experience to date but I'm very cynical of any internal investigation being impartial and effective.

I have a lot of experience of this in Private hospitals and they are very very effective. They are not meant to blame anyone. All staff involved in the care of the patient should meet. Consultants, Junior doctors, nurses, anaesthetists etc and they simply answer 4 questions.

- What was supposed to happen?
- What actually happened?
- Why was there a difference?
- What can we learn from this?

They are meant to be factual, not "he said, she said". Done well, they promote a much more open culture.

Afroshack

houbie wrote: »

Im not looking for comp, i want to know what happened to my partner and if anything similar has happened to people out there.
If it is a fault on the part of the anesthesiologist then i would like to know.

we have a meeting with doctors to get her checked out in 2 weeks.

People are saying forget about it if shes fine now... so if a person is robbed and the times stolen are given back them ... you should forget about it ... no harm done! ridiculous.

I work 40 hrs a week and so does my partner.. were not looking for easy money.. just answers

What answers are you looking for exactly? There was an unforeseen complication, medical staff responded, mother and baby are fine. Seriously, I don't understand your problem.

Afroshack

Afroshack wrote: »

What answers are you looking for exactly? There was an unforeseen complication, medical staff responded, mother and baby are fine. Seriously, I don't understand your problem.

Well as someone who works in healthcare I can fully understand his problem. Finding out what went wrong may help prevent a similar occurence.

schemingbohemia

houbie wrote: »

Im not looking for comp, i want to know what happened to my partner and if anything similar has happened to people out there.
If it is a fault on the part of the anesthesiologist then i would like to know.

we have a meeting with doctors to get her checked out in 2 weeks.

People are saying forget about it if shes fine now... so if a person is robbed and the times stolen are given back them ... you should forget about it ... no harm done! ridiculous.

I work 40 hrs a week and so does my partner.. were not looking for easy money.. just answers

If you're not looking for compo why are you posting in the legal discussion area? It's not a legal issue, it's a medical or even consumer issue.

boarsboard

if she stopped breathing there should be brain damage,
talk to medical solicitor

https://www.birthinternational.com/articles/birth/15-epidurals-real-risks-for-mother-and-baby-

boarsboard

boarsboard wrote: »

if she stopped breathing there should be brain damage,
talk to medical solicitor

https://www.birthinternational.com/articles/birth/15-epidurals-real-risks-for-mother-and-baby-

I presume you mean "could" be brain damage.

Corvo Attano

boarsboard wrote: »

if she stopped breathing there should be brain damage,

That is a wild claim based on listening to to many worst case scenarios. By the OP account she was on assisted breathing in seconds of the incident.

schemingbohemia

schemingbohemia wrote: »

If you're not looking for compo why are you posting in the legal discussion area? It's not a legal issue, it's a medical or even consumer issue.

Not at all, even requesting medical records is considered a legal issue.

Cody Pomeray

ridiculous.

what do people get out of moralizing on a legal discussion forum?

op don't expect your legal questions answered here. this is for morality.

seb65

hawkelady wrote: »

Is everything fine now , ie , mum and baby doing fine .. If so , I appreciate it was upsetting at the time but your post looks like your after compo..
Speak with the hospital staff involved to put your mind at ease and if any info is required for mums future operations ..
Then get on with changing nappies etc . Enjoy

Perhaps, if someone acted negligently, it is best that the negligence is addressed, so others will be saved from the same experience.

That is actually a function of tort law.

Advice to "get on with changing nappies" - how demeaning to a woman who suffered such a traumatic event.

dharma200

hawkelady wrote: »

Is everything fine now , ie , mum and baby doing fine .. If so , I appreciate it was upsetting at the time but your post looks like your after compo..
Speak with the hospital staff involved to put your mind at ease and if any info is required for mums future operations ..
Then get on with changing nappies etc . Enjoy

I'm sorry but are you a proffessional in anaesthesia ? How do you know if everything is fine,or will be fine?.. After compo... I hate this attitude... How does anyone know what the long term damage or root cause of this was until it is investigated properly... Get on with changing nappies.... That's nice.

I hate when advise is given that is totally based on absolutely nothing.

I would seek advise if I were you. Ignore all the derogatory comments about you or your partners character, and get to the bottom of why this happened. I would speak to a lawyer that specialises in medical, do not be put off by the seeking compo posts. It has nothing to do with anyone and only you and your wife will know the effect something like this can have... Find out where you stand and get the medical records. I would lie to see how some of the people commenting in this thread would feel if they stopped breathing, and to be helped to breathe, in a traumatic situation, not know why, and be to.d to get on with changing nappies and forget it... Wtf

hawkelady

seb65 wrote: »

Perhaps, if someone acted negligently, it is best that the negligence is addressed, so others will be saved from the same experience.

That is actually a function of tort law.

Advice to "get on with changing nappies" - how demeaning to a woman who suffered such a traumatic event.

Please re read the thread..
I wasn't replying to the mother as I take it the op is a man !!
I believe the op hasn't said how is other half actually is health wise .. Is she brain damaged as a result , don't know but the fact that the title is " stopped breathing " I'd imagine it was just a minor hiccup that was addressed fairly quickly . I can stop breathing for a while too , by holding my breath . Sorry , that was flippant but its a fact nonetheless .

I had a c section a few years ago , the epidural didn't work and I felt everything as I was cut open .. It was quite horrific but they dealt with it , knocked me out as soon as possible and carried on . Everyone survived etc so excuse me if I find the op posting on an open forum looking for advise ,
If he really wanted that he would take his questions to the hospital and await their response , and in the mean time carry on changing nappies and doing everything else that comes with it.

Op , how is the mother . If your willing to post on the Internet , tell us the whole story.

micosoft

McCrack wrote: »

Really?

So people harmed from the negligence actions of medical professionals should just put up with their lot.

For example say a woman has a smear test done and is told everything is fine and 12 months later she presents with bleeding and further investigations show advanced cancer that should have been detected at the time of the smear. Furthermore she now has months to live. By your logic her and her family she should accept the misdiagnosis and do nothing.

That's one example. I have many more.

Thats exactly what I didn't say in my post if you had bothered to read it. :rolleyes:

The first step to improving health care and preventing accidents is to introduce a "no fault" culture where accidents are investigated with a view to preventing their reoccurrence. This requires an open culture of non-confrontation and self examination. The airline industry, Engineering etc have all moved to this system as in the medium to long term it improves outcomes for all.

Introducing words like negligence and the use of lawyers prevents this and creates a culture of defensive medicine and attempts to hide mistakes. The opposite of what you allege you want.

In your example it's a systems failure and should be treated as such. Not some conspiracy or deliberate attempt to inflict harm.

In the meantime, without the use of lawyers, patients who have negative outcomes get the supports they need. So you cancer patient gets the treatment and support they need, and dependents get the financial support they need. Not lawyers getting rich of massive claims.

If it turns out the medical professional was grossly incompetent then professional misconduct is the way to go rather then an out of court settlement
If it was deliberate we have a criminal system to deal with the Nearys of the world.

Victor

Afroshack wrote: »

What answers are you looking for exactly? There was an unforeseen complication, medical staff responded, mother and baby are fine. Seriously, I don't understand your problem.

Without breathing, you can be dead within 1-3 minutes, which is rather serious. It isn't something that can be just ignored.

Now, the family don't necessarily need to go looking for compensation or have heads roll, and the quite possibly just get on with their lives, but questions do need to be answered.

Zambia

Victor wrote: »

Without breathing, you can be dead within 1-3 minutes, which is rather serious. It isn't something that can be just ignored.

Now, the family don't necessarily need to go looking for compensation or have heads roll, and the quite possibly just get on with their lives, but questions do need to be answered.

What happens if the questions can't be answered?

Peregrinus

Zambia wrote: »

What happens if the questions can't be answered?

Yes. Sometimes medical questions can't be answered. That's something we have to live with.

I understand that the OP and his wife want to know, as much as they can, what happened and why it happened. He doesn't suggest that his wife suffered any injury beyond the immediate incident, or any long-term consequences, and he explicitly says he is not looking for compensation. He just wants to know what happened and why, and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to want to know, if only because that knowledge might affect future decisions his wife would take about anaesthesia.

The fact that he has raised the question on the legal board rather than, say, the health sciences board is unfortunate, as is the fact that he orginally framed his question in terms of negligence on the part of the medics (though I see the thread title has been changed). That context, I think, has created a misleading impression about what he's after, and has coloured some of the replies he got.

In a way, if this incident were shown to be the result of somebody's negligence, that would be a good outcome, since there is then no reason to expect recurrence. Whereas if his wife turns out to have an abnormally low threshold for anaesthesia or an intolerance for a particular anaesthetic or something of the kind, that does complicate decisions about future treatment. But it's definitely something you want to know.

OP, you're embarked on a medical investigation here, not a legal proceeding. Don't approach this in a confrontational way, don't start off with preconceptions about not trusting this or that investigation, and don't involve lawyers. Your starting point should be to ask your GP to refer you to another anaesthetist who will look at what happened, and offer you an opinion as to what might have caused it and advice about its implications for future healthcare decisions.

You will have to pay for this, but it will certainly cost you less than going down the legal route. Even if you find a solicitor who will investigate this on a no-foal no-fee basis (and I'll be very surprised if you will, since as yet there is nothing to suggest that this could ever turn into a paying case, and in any event you've said you're not interested in monetary compensation) that solicitor will need to obtain expert medical opinion, and the medics do not work on a no-foal no-fee basis. And they charge much more for medico-legal reports than they do for therapeutic consultations.

Leave the lawyers out of this unless and until you know you have a legal claim, and that you wish to pursue it.