Help! Can't complete grant application

Buster10

I'm planning on going back to college as a mature student next week, and went through all the SUSI application process, sent all the documents etc in last week. Just gvot a letter saying one of the documents was insufficient, the one indicating independent living (A15b). When I rang, they told me the letter from the Revenue COmmissioners I'd sent in (as a letter from a government department, one of the options) didn't prove I lived independently, and I'd have to provide a utility bill.

I've explained that the utility bills are either in my partner's name, or in our business name, there just aren't any from that period in my name. She suggested Sky TV would do. I explained that I didn't have ANY utility bill in my name, and asked what the alternatives were, given that we're not renting, and I have not mortgage in my name.

She stated that unless I provide a utility bill, my grant application would be refused.

I'm shocked and appalled at this. Could this be true? Given that I've provided something like 15 documents, given that I've lived at this address for 15 years, given that I have a partner and child, all at this address, could I possible be turned down for a grant because they'll only accept a utility bill as proof that I'm not living with my parents?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!!

paperclip2

Hi
Found this in the guidelines for grant completion. There might be some leeway as regard proof of independent residence if you have a look through it. Its taken from the student finance website. Link below. See page 4 of the guidelines.

Documentary evidence for an independent mature student:

If you are living independently, you must be able to demonstrate an income to support independent residence, that is to say, an income to offset the outgoings reflected in the documentary evidence.

After provisional assessment, you may be required to send documentary evidence as proof of your home address from October of the year preceding entry or re-entry to an approved course.

For example, if entering an approved course for the first time or re-entering in the academic year2013/2014, evidence of where you were living from October prior to course starting is required.

The following documentation is acceptable:
Utility bill in your own name, for example, landline telephone, fixed broadband, gas, electricity or cable/satellite television. Mobile telephone bills/ Credit card bills are not acceptable on their own.

As above in spouse name with marriage certificate

Letter confirming receipt and period of rent/mortgage supplement

Letter of registration with the PRTB

Copy of lease agreement

Correspondence from a Government department or agency- for example Revenue, Road Safety Authority, Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Department of Education and Skills etc.

If you are unable to provide this documentation, SUSI at their discretion may accept other forms of proof of independent residency. Potential alternative documents to be accepted:

Bill may be accepted from before October prior to entering further or higher education. This is as long as independent residency is demonstrated until the end period in question, that is if you have independent proof from before October and after October we may be able to accept this at SUSI's discretion.

Mortgage statements from bank (not bank statements)

TV License/ Invoicing from private bin companies (as long as accompanied with other documents)

Council Lease agreement (from start date to include demonstration of payments)

http://www.studentfinance.ie/downloads/1372150329/203851_Guidance_Notes_2013_2014__Layout_1.pdf

Buster10

Thanks for that.

I spotted that too, and I got back to SUSI to tell them their own guidelines directly contradict what I was told on the phone by a supervisor this morning!

Unfortunately, the examples suggested there don't apply to me, and the helpdesk suggest I tell them what I have and they'll tell me if it's suitable!

The main problem here seems to be a lack of knowledge, expertise and access to information on the part of the helpdesk phone staff...

Incidentally, how do they explain that a TV licence proves independent residency? Or a bill for Sky TV? Their viewpoint is that paying VAT, Tax etc from an address doesn't prove your parents don't live there with you, but surely neither does an account with Sky TV!!

paperclip2

Have you asked to speak to the supervisor in SUSI. Sometimes they know a bit more and can suggest ways to meet the requirements that aren't in the literature.

Buster10

This was a supervisor! I had to draw her attention to the section in the guidance notes that says they have discression, as she herself earlier on told me without one of the items on the list, I could forget about it!

A call back sorted it, I hope, so fingers crossed!

Systemic Risk

I unfortunately have no suggestions regarding documentation. However, don't take no for an answer on this. If you have no luck further up the chain of command in SUSI, tell them you will be going to the Office of the Ombudsman who dealt with complaints following last year's SUSI fiasco. This should be easily sorted by someone with a bit of authority and a little common sense in SUSI.

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/

You can see from the home page that SUSI is within their remit.

Best of luck with your application and your studies.

Buster10

This should be easily sorted by someone with a bit of authority and a little common sense in SUSI.

I know, wouldn't you think so? But it's getting to speak to those people that's the problem!

I haven't given up, I'm sending in a covering letter and a rake of alternative documents, so hopefully common sense will prevail...

avolon

I'm not sure if this helps or not but I was talking to a mature student at our orientation and he told me that the SUSI number isn't run by SUSI but a generic call centre that does more than just SUSI, that he used to work for the company. Can't recall the name of the company he told me.

Annasopra

avolon wrote: »

I'm not sure if this helps or not but I was talking to a mature student at our orientation and he told me that the SUSI number isn't run by SUSI but a generic call centre that does more than just SUSI, that he used to work for the company. Can't recall the name of the company he told me.

Abtran I think

Rasmus

OP, if you applied for your grant as an independent mature student with a co-habiting partner, what reason did they give for not accepting your partner's utility bills as evidence?

Buster10

One of the alternatives in the guidance notes is a utility bill in your spouse's name, and a copy of your marriage certificate. Unsurprisingly, there is no mention made of cohabiting couples, this is only the 21st century, after all. However, I would hope that if you can provide documents to indicate you live as a married couple, they will then accept utility bills in your partner's name.

I still find it bizarre that they will accept a Sky TV or Broadband subscription as proof of independent living. There must be thousands of people still living with their parents who have utility bills such as this in their own name...

dharma200

Hey, let me know how you get on with this, my partner might be in the same situation next year asall the bills etc are in my name so already worrying about susi for 2014... Cheers

Buster10

Will do
I am hopeful it'll be easily resolved. After all, despite the fact that the process is still geared at 17, 18, 19-year olds, with perhaps the odd mature student in their mid twenties, the 'average' student now comes from all age groups and a wide range of personal circumstances. The grant application process will eventually have to take that into account.

Abby19

dharma200 wrote: »

Hey, let me know how you get on with this, my partner might be in the same situation next year asall the bills etc are in my name so already worrying about susi for 2014... Cheers

Would you consider adding their name or changing the bills into their name to head off this issue?

dharma200

Yes am considering this although even if this is done it will only count for one year won't it... Am wondering do they accept social welfare letter for other years or something.. And the fact they only allow spouse to be married spouse is a pretty epic fail, perhaps they will change this in the future... Or is the independent. Living only for the year prior and it is the habitual residence thing I'm thinking off... Eurghhhhh

Buster10

For the independent living, if he's starting next September, your partner will only need one bill in his own name for this coming October, so that would be easy to sort out now...

dharma200

Ok thanks, I knew I was getting confused there, the three year thing I was panicking about... The whole thing had my head warped last year which is why I'm worrying about his application next year, supposedly susi are sorting themselves out though, I hope so, last year I witnessed students getting given free food from the local aldi, and knew one guy who was having to rob from the canteen just to eat because of the hold up in the grant.... Awful. The whole rich student thing I can tell you, is a real thing of the past, a tiny minority, most of the students last year were desperate....

JDAWG90

Hey Buster,

Just wondering did you manage to get the grant in the end as an independent? I'm thinking forward for my application this September and have no utilities or proof as such so interested to hear if they accepted your documents.

Thanks

Annasopra

JDAWG90 wrote: »

Hey Buster,

Just wondering did you manage to get the grant in the end as an independent? I'm thinking forward for my application this September and have no utilities or proof as such so interested to hear if they accepted your documents.

Thanks

Can you not get bills etc?

Buster10

Hi JDAWG90,

In the end, I emailed complaints@susi.ie, and got through to an actual person, with an actual name, who understood what I was talking about. The call centre staff seem to be working to a very rigid set of rules and conditions, and if your situation doesn't fit, they don't know what to do with you. Once you get past the Call Centre, it's possible to explain your situation and get it sorted out.

Off the top of my head, I think it was a joint account statement and a utility bill from the period in my partner's name that sorted it in my case. Anyway, it is sorted and I'm getting the grant now.

So, don't give up! I've recommeneded the same route to loads of people- complaints@susi.ie!

Can you not get bills etc?

That's the whole point, lots of people for lots of reasons don't have the specific documents they're looking for, and as it's pot luck who opens your application, some people's documents are accepted, others are refused.

Annasopra

Buster10 wrote: »

Hi JDAWG90,

That's the whole point, lots of people for lots of reasons don't have the specific documents they're looking for, and as it's pot luck who opens your application, some people's documents are accepted, others are refused.

I know but it is January now and he has a few months to start trying to get bills in his name.

Buster10

As far as I remember, they look for bills for the October prior to starting college. That's October 2013 for those applying this year. October 2013 is gone, and if an apllicant doesn't have bills dated October 2013 now, there's not a lot they can do about it, there is no way of getting a bill back-dated.

Annasopra

Buster10 wrote: »

As far as I remember, they look for bills for the October prior to starting college. That's October 2013 for those applying this year. October 2013 is gone, and if an apllicant doesn't have bills dated October 2013 now, there's not a lot they can do about it, there is no way of getting a bill back-dated.

it depends in some cases you can get statements backdated

Buster10

Maybe some specific information would be more helpful here...?
Are you aware of any utility companies that will change the name on an account and issue a backdated bill? Or any banks that will do the same thing? I'm sure that would be useful info for people in this situation...

JDAWG90

Buster10 wrote: »

Hi JDAWG90,

In the end, I emailed complaints@susi.ie, and got through to an actual person, with an actual name, who understood what I was talking about. The call centre staff seem to be working to a very rigid set of rules and conditions, and if your situation doesn't fit, they don't know what to do with you. Once you get past the Call Centre, it's possible to explain your situation and get it sorted out.

Off the top of my head, I think it was a joint account statement and a utility bill from the period in my partner's name that sorted it in my case. Anyway, it is sorted and I'm getting the grant now.

So, don't give up! I've recommeneded the same route to loads of people- complaints@susi.ie!



That's the whole point, lots of people for lots of reasons don't have the specific documents they're looking for, and as it's pot luck who opens your application, some people's documents are accepted, others are refused.

Thanks buster, that sums it up pretty much for me, just going to try get some "proof" for this month and hopefully that will be sufficient as will have no way of proving otherwise. Thanks once again!