McGeeney: Success or Failure?

Stoner

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Have the Kildare county board not spent crazy amounts of money in funding his preparation plans?
Or am I completely wrong? That was my understanding of their debt situation

Mine too, second or third highest spend on development I heard.

DoctaDee

I didn't want to rake the coals on Kildare's debt but seeing as how we're moving there .. my understanding is there's a portion of the debt that's linked to the Hawkfield Development Centre, which the clubs are levied each year on ... but outside that there was a huge spend in KCB which I think was noted as their "day to day" spending being out of control. It came to light when KCB received their 2nd (loan/bailout/advance) call it what you will, and an instruction to get their budgets in order. To the best of my knowledge they have striven to do so, with the senior panels training costs dramatically reduced .....

But...... interestingly the Treasurer of KCB voted against retaining McG .. which set me wondering on a purely economic basis whether 1. the decision was taken on what would be deemed a negligible return on their investment i.e they spent big but have little in the way of their benchmarked success and 2. whether the attendant cost of retaining McG was outside the demanded curtailing of the budget.

These are just general observations, and certainly not meant as a further "rub " on the current difficulties. Ta

klairondavis

DoctaDee wrote: »

I didn't want to rake the coals on Kildare's debt but seeing as how we're moving there .. my understanding is there's a portion of the debt that's linked to the Hawkfield Development Centre, which the clubs are levied each year on ... but outside that there was a huge spend in KCB which I think was noted as their "day to day" spending being out of control. It came to light when KCB received their 2nd (loan/bailout/advance) call it what you will, and an instruction to get their budgets in order. To the best of my knowledge they have striven to do so, with the senior panels training costs dramatically reduced .....

But...... interestingly the Treasurer of KCB voted against retaining McG .. which set me wondering on a purely economic basis whether 1. the decision was taken on what would be deemed a negligible return on their investment i.e they spent big but have little in the way of their benchmarked success and 2. whether the attendant cost of retaining McG was outside the demanded curtailing of the budget.

These are just general observations, and certainly not meant as a further "rub " on the current difficulties. Ta

The first part of your post is 100% accurate. I don't know why Martin Whyte voted against the motion and it could be that there are deeper financial issues that are not known to the public. Only he knows why he voted the way he did.

Just a little bit more background to the finances: 3 or 4 years ago expenditure was totally out of control. It's largely under control now. The county's books actually showed a €25k surplus for 2012.

Hawkfield is essentially a long term mortgage which is funded by a levy on every club in the county.

The problem Kildare have is that we're not bringing in enough money in to pay off our debts even though the current level of expense which is way down on what it was a few years back. Kildare spent approx €525,000 on all inter-county teams (football & hurling) in 2012 with €270,000 of that going on the senior footballers. That overall figure of €525,000 is down nearly €200,000 on 2011. It's budgeted to be even less for this year.

The big issue now is that fundraising and sponsorship are not at the levels they were at during Micko's time. The Supporter's Club had some incredible connections back then which it no longer has and obviously the economy was in a far healthier state.

Here's a post from last February outlining some of the figures: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83212670&postcount=1175

lanarty56

Failed to win any trophies ,in most counties this would be seen as a failure

DoctaDee

I stopped off in Clane a couple of weeks ago, one of the shops there had a sticker in the window proudly stating they were part of Club Kildare ... is there any handle on the contribution levels from this initiative ? ... is the purpose to defray costs of the senior team or is it more general in nature ?

klairondavis

DoctaDee wrote: »

I stopped off in Clane a couple of weeks ago, one of the shops there had a sticker in the window proudly stating they were part of Club Kildare ... is there any handle on the contribution levels from this initiative ? ... is the purpose to defray costs of the senior team or is it more general in nature ?

Funds all Kildare teams, underage development squads etc.

It has only been brought under the one umbrella with the county board last year so hopefully that will lead to a more organised and focused fundraising effort.

Poor_old_gill

I come from a county that hasn't played Kildare in the championship in over a decade but my reading of the situation is that in reality they are nowhere nearer to winning anything of note since McGeeney took over,

All that seems to have happened under his tenure is that they seem to have become a massive team physically- that can be achieved by any county once they put the money into gym memberships/facilities/dieticians, etc-which Kildare seem to have done resulting in a crazy level of spending.

The skills set of their players doesn't seem to have moved on a whole lot and they have been easily found out by a lot of teams.

His tactics are poor and while he seems to be a player's manager- I just don't think he has done enough on the pitch

Amprodude

McG did nothing with a team that had a bit of potential. His days were up long before now, im thinking Kildare v Donegal 2011 quarter final. That was McGeeneys best year for him to deliver and he failed. He had no success with Kildare so i reckon he was a bit of a failure.

iDave

I just find this a remarkable phase in GAA history where a team was often ranked as 3rd or 4th best in the country and potential All Ireland winners despite no victory over major opposition.

Stoner

In all fairness there was a huge amount of people naming them as top five or six and I never heard the mam himself talking rubbish.

I'd you look at 2011 they were unlucky to not get a draw against Dublin but I'd argue that Boltons goal in that game was a little freaky in the way it skidded in and they were playing 14 men, then they ran Donegal close, these are significant performances only because Dublin and Donegal kicked on and won AIs after that, had either team not done so they would be considered overrated even though things did fall into place for the 2011 and 2012 winners.
I don't think Kildare ever had their day in that period. Looking back 2012 was set up to be a great year for them, the hangover for Dublin kerry not what they were, a poor meath team, underperforming Cork,.
I know I'm sticking up for them I've spent time reminding some of my kildare colleagues that a great record in the qualifiers year after means that you get knocked out of the provincial championship ever year.
But I would have liked to see them win something they were involved in some great games in that time.

Lemlin

Stoner wrote: »

In all fairness there was a huge amount of people naming them as top five or six and I never heard the mam himself talking rubbish.

I'd you look at 2011 they were unlucky to not get a draw against Dublin but I'd argue that Boltons goal in that game was a little freaky in the way it skidded in and they were playing 14 men, then they ran Donegal close, these are significant performances only because Dublin and Donegal kicked on and won AIs after that, had either team not done so they would be considered overrated even though things did fall into place for the 2011 and 2012 winners.
I don't think Kildare ever had their day in that period. Looking back 2012 was set up to be a great year for them, the hangover for Dublin kerry not what they were, a poor meath team, underperforming Cork,.
I know I'm sticking up for them I've spent time reminding some of my kildare colleagues that a great record in the qualifiers year after means that you get knocked out of the provincial championship ever year.
But I would have liked to see them win something they were involved in some great games in that time.

I think the valid point I made a while back still counts:

One of the things that Kildare supporters need to drop is this notion of 'well we only lost by...' or 'a bad call caused' or 'we've had bad luck'.

Top teams make their own luck and top teams grind out a result in the end. Kildare have had many chances (Dublin in the Leinster final (in 09 was it), Down in 2010, Donegal in 2011, even Tyrone this year) and they've failed to push on when a game was there for the taking.

McGeeney has brought the county forward IMO but in six years in charge Kildare have not defeated a top level team in the Championship.

Unfortunately my post was ignored due to an overreaction and accusation of bitterness by a poster due to one word.

StupidLikeAFox

Off the field he brought in top class training structures, a professional attitude and approach to the game at senior and underage levels and raised the profile of Kildare GAA inside and outside the county.

On the field he won a Leinster with the U21s and was heavily involved with the teams who won Leinster at U16, minor and junior this year. He brought us to a level where we were just outside the top tier of teams and played some excellent football along the way.

It must also be remembered that whatever about bad decisions etc - the years we were competing in QFs and SFs we had to play with our 3 first choice midfielders. D.Earley was constantly injured which was a huge loss as player and as a presence on the field. But ultimately you get no silverware for hard luck stories or what might have been.

There is no doubt he has been a success. The part Im most worried about is where do we go from here? Nobody was voting on a plan for the future - there was no option of "Keep McGeeney and we'll work to this plan or get rid of him and we will work to this plan" - There is now a danger that all the good work he carried out over the past few years will be lost

Pete_Cavan

The main reasons that have been given for McGeeneys tenure with Kildare being a success seem to be 1. the commitment and respect he got from his players and 2. the number of young players he developed.

On 1. he failed to turn it into success on the pitch and even Meath, who have had big issues with managers, have had more success in his time (two Leinster finals including a win to Kildares one Leinster final defeat).

On 2. apart from Niall Kelly and Paddy Brophy, has anyone else progressed from minor/u21 into the senior team? 2 players in 6 years is hardly great. I saw their Leinster championship winning u21s play Galway earlier this year, they were big fit and athletic but were totally outclassed by a far more skillful Galway team (much like his senior team tend to be). I think his affect here is overstated.

If those are the reasons for his reign being a success, then I would say it he was a failure.

Stoner

Lemlin wrote: »

Unfortunately my post was ignored due to an overreaction and accusation of bitterness by a poster due to one word.

I think the overreaction is on your part tbh, you could consider letting sleeping dogs lie.

Poor_old_gill

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The main reasons that have been given for McGeeneys tenure with Kildare being a success seem to be 1. the commitment and respect he got from his players and 2. the number of young players he developed.

On 1. he failed to turn it into success on the pitch and even Meath, who have had big issues with managers, have had more success in his time (two Leinster finals including a win to Kildares one Leinster final defeat).

On 2. apart from Niall Kelly and Paddy Brophy, has anyone else progressed from minor/u21 into the senior team? 2 players in 6 years is hardly great. I saw their Leinster championship winning u21s play Galway earlier this year, they were big fit and athletic but were totally outclassed by a far more skillful Galway team (much like his senior team tend to be). I think his affect here is overstated.

If those are the reasons for his reign being a success, then I would say it he was a failure.

That's very similar to my reading of it- physically they have massively improved but skills wise- you could argue that Kildare have gone backwards

StupidLikeAFox

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

On 2. apart from Niall Kelly and Paddy Brophy, has anyone else progressed from minor/u21 into the senior team? 2 players in 6 years is hardly great.

Just on this point, there was also Paul Cribbin, Conor McNally, David Hyland and Daniel Flynn from the U21 panel who all got starts this year. Make no mistake, we were a team in transition this season

Dubliner28

Moneymaker wrote: »

Has to be said though Kildare did suffer some atrocious luck.

Robbed of a draw by a handy free a few years ago vs Dublin. I remember feeling sick for them and i'm a Dub!

Crossbar away from beating Down in 2010.

Then the quarter final vs Donegal, yes they threw the game away but some of Donegal's 'tactics' during that game left a taste in the mouth.

Failure:

As already quoted, he had no Plan B. Relied on the fitness of the team on many occasion to beat a lesser team. When coming up again a Top 4-5 team they didn't perform at all. Twice in his time they were unable to beat a 14 man Dublin team when the game was there for the taking.

Will probably take them a year or two to bed in with a new manager now so hopefully they wont go backwards.