No Soup Kitchen in Ennis?

blowin3

Well said but our society reflects this forum you have to be political correct. Its all about we must help these people even if they don't want to be helped. I complained once about a family that had been moved next door to me on a private estate who shouted and roared all night while drinking dumped their rubbish out the back of my house. I even got a house call from the Clare county council about dumping rubbish, he was standing next to a paid Mr Bin man bin but next door no bin. When I pointed this out he drove off. I went to the health board and the nice lady asked me was I "a raciest" I said no but why don't you put them next you or are back to the houses I paid for as a tax payer that they burnt down.

Am Chile

Some of the attitudes on here who dont want a soup kitchen in the area- remind me of the no blacks/no irish/no dogs signs pubowners used to have one time in the uk.

Lady Chatterton

Am Chile, you're deliberately being provocative, please stop trolling.

Am Chile

MrsD007 wrote: »

Am Chile, you're deliberately being provocative, please stop trolling.

IM not trying to troll- far from it- IM being thought provocative applying critical thinking looking at this- those who are against a soup kitchen in an area to serve people in need- do you see not any difference with your stance and outlook with no irish signs in uk pubs most of our older relatives would of faced at one point in time ?

Lady Chatterton

Am Chile wrote: »

IM not trying to troll- far from it- IM being thought provocative applying critical thinking looking at this- those who are against a soup kitchen in an area to serve people in need- do you see not any difference with your stance and outlook with no irish signs in uk pubs most of our older relatives would of faced at one point in time ?

Residents are complaining that Oliver Williams opened a soup kitchen WITHOUT planning permission in a residential area. There is also a homeless shelter already in the vicinity.

I feel that your remarks are inaccurate and inflammatory in this particular instance.

CommanderC

MyKeyG wrote: »

Oh God this just gets worse and worse. Did people come on this page with the intention of just seeing what they wanted in other comments? I have never come across so many obtuse people in my life. I tell you what guys, come on down here whenever you want. You'll get to meet the guy from the Mens shelter that exposed himself to my neighbours while drunk even though drinking isn't permitted there. You can place a few bob on the Flannan's lads beating ten shades of s**t out of each other at lunch in our back yards. Park your car here over the weekend if you like but be ready to buy new tires come Monday, don't worry you can shop for them while you're shopping for new glass for your broken windows.

Nobody said all those on welfare were druggies and alcoholics, nobody said they judged those who were. Fuzzenstein you talk about pissing on things? Well the wino's that piss all over the Holy Family School that my father has to wash up every morning are the kind of people who will be using this place as well as the needy. If you feel so strongly why don't you open your own bloody kitchen and feed them?

You can hate us if ye want but ye're hypocritical keyboard warrior nonsense only strengthens the resolve of the residents of St Flannans terrace. We will not be intimidated and we will not live in fear of our children playing out their own back lane. None of us are against a soup kitchen but we deserve the right to be concerned about the element that a venture in such a secluded area will bring in.

It sounds, from your description, that perhaps the services that currently operate in that area, while obviously trying their best, are perhaps struggling to cope and to provide a service to those in need while preventing their operation from infringing on those around them.

A new operation establishing in the area may relieve some of the pressure on existing charities, enabling all of them to operate, for want of a better word, more efficiently and with a lesser impact on the surrounding area.

periodictable

Yep he should have sought planning permission or opened one in a commercial and central part of the town.
However I was disgusted to read of alleged threats by Ennis Town Council where court and possible imprisonment was mentioned.
I seem to remember a well known large structure on an elevated site built in the grounds of a private house on the west of Ennis, where retention was sought and given, and no such threats issued.

dr.fuzzenstein

You just have to play golf with the right people.

Clareman

periodictable wrote: »

I seem to remember a well known large structure on an elevated site built in the grounds of a private house on the west of Ennis, where retention was sought and given, and no such threats issued.

Not really comparing apples with apples there. The other building you are talking about is a private residence and there wasn't any objections to the retention request.

periodictable

No it's who you know.
Ode was about personal aggrandizement, the other about giving others a helping hand.
Anyone remember Bowsie Casey being made to demolish a simple extension to his house near the Eire Og Club?
Better not disturb the status quo, our self-styled "betters" don't like it.

Lady Chatterton

periodictable wrote: »

No it's who you know.
Ode was about personal aggrandizement, the other about giving others a helping hand.
Anyone remember Bowsie Casey being made to demolish a simple extension to his house near the Eire Og Club?
Better not disturb the status quo, our self-styled "betters" don't like it.

I remember that, to be fair, it wasn't a simple extension, he built a house. From what I remember Bowsie had a lot of support in the community and people felt he was hard done by. Bowsie wanted to provide a house for each of his children, tragically, one of his sons died within a year or two of the house being demolished.

The council rarely ever demolish properties but every now and then they like to make an example of people.

KarmaBaby

MyKeyG wrote: »

Oh God this just gets worse and worse. Did people come on this page with the intention of just seeing what they wanted in other comments? I have never come across so many obtuse people in my life. I tell you what guys, come on down here whenever you want. You'll get to meet the guy from the Mens shelter that exposed himself to my neighbours while drunk even though drinking isn't permitted there. You can place a few bob on the Flannan's lads beating ten shades of s**t out of each other at lunch in our back yards. Park your car here over the weekend if you like but be ready to buy new tires come Monday, don't worry you can shop for them while you're shopping for new glass for your broken windows.

Nobody said all those on welfare were druggies and alcoholics, nobody said they judged those who were. Fuzzenstein you talk about pissing on things? Well the wino's that piss all over the Holy Family School that my father has to wash up every morning are the kind of people who will be using this place as well as the needy. If you feel so strongly why don't you open your own bloody kitchen and feed them?

You can hate us if ye want but ye're hypocritical keyboard warrior nonsense only strengthens the resolve of the residents of St Flannans terrace. We will not be intimidated and we will not live in fear of our children playing out their own back lane. None of us are against a soup kitchen but we deserve the right to be concerned about the element that a venture in such a secluded area will bring in.

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

Claregirl

Am Chile wrote: »

Some of the attitudes on here who dont want a soup kitchen in the area- remind me of the no blacks/no irish/no dogs signs pubowners used to have one time in the uk.

KarmaBaby wrote: »

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

It's posts like these that really make me wish there was a thumbs down symbol as well as a thank post symbol. I'll be honest on this I would certainly object if a soup kitchen, hostel or any other sort of business opened up in my residential area. Seriously this is off the wall and MyKeyG you have my full sympathies no-one should have to put up with what ye are currently enduring.

Hopefully both sides will see sense and site this facility in a more suitable location perhaps beside the Garda Station, Ennis Town Hall or another public office not one in the heart of a residential area.

I certainly wouldn't want to see it in the centre of town from my own point of view if God forbid I ever found myself in need of these services I would like to think that the whole of Ennis would not observe me making use of them at least sited near public buildings you'd have more than one legitimate reason for being in the location.

There should not be a need for soup kitchens but it's easy to see how this is happening when keeping a roof over your head and keeping warm now costs so much - income has been reduced while outgoings are continuing to rise at an alarming rate. It's depressing to think that we've sunk so low as a country that people are in need of food but unfortunately the way things are going I fear that more people will need to avail of these services in time to come.

MyKeyG in relation to the Flannan's students might I suggest taking a few photo's / videos and presenting them to the Head teacher of Flannans & Gardaí?

MyKeyG

KarmaBaby wrote: »

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

Again! Obtuse! I never said it was because of the soup kitchen. The point I'm trying to make, yet again, is that it is a secluded area that in the past few months has become a haven for crime. Yes my neighbours BMW tires were slashed, two of them at €500 a go and the same night windows broken in houses. By the way I don't have to make anything up, how dare you! The Garda reports speak for themselves.
We've asked the Guards to send a patrol at lunch time. I know their time and resources are stretched but you'd sooner see a leprechaun riding a unicorn down the lane before a squad car.
Now I can't put this any clearer than in plain English. Not just the needy will be using this facility. There will be alcohol and drug abusers coming to a secluded area where our children play, who's going to supervise them? YOU!!! I don't think so. There are plenty of people on dole and rent allowance who get by. Why not these people? Why can't they afford food?
We have empty buildings coming out of our ears in this town I have nothing against a soup kitchen I simply don't want to see it in an area where we already have enough on our hands with students during the day and drunken revelers at night.

Claregirl <Mod snip> Flannans has been approached numerous times and <Mod snip> [their] attitude left a lot to be desired. In no uncertain terms we were told that it wasn't their problem off the premises. In my opinion when you're in the uniform you reflect the name of the school.

Look just as an extra point let me say this. If it hadn't been done so underhanded and locals were given the information in due time to consider we may not come across so militant but many residents only found out about this in the last two weeks. There was no planning submitted for this building, AGAIN, and we weren't informed now why was that? Why so sneaky? And as repetition for emphasis this isn't the first venture that was planned for this building without permission. The only reason its available as a soup kitchen is because the planning for the church meetings having been finally submitted was rejected.

maiden

KarmaBaby wrote: »

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

Wow, a totally inappropriate comment, it's a pity people don't read other members posts correctly before replying and making a comment like this

This isn't about in my back garden, but the holier than thou brigade can't seen to see what other members have posted either that or they choose to ignore it, the debate is very clear here NO ONE SAID IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, it's a question of where it should be and the fact that it has to follow planning rules like everyone else

I'm all for a soup kitchen but why put it where there is anti social behaviour already, that doesn't make sense,
So my question is to karma baby, and others on here, are you happy for it to go next door to you? If so, let the council know that you and the residents in your area are happy for this to be set up beside you, There may be an empty house two doors from you that would be perfect for this! And the council I'm sure will be delighted to hear from you and your neighbours, let us know how you get on? The perfect happy compromise I think!

Claregirl

I'm surprised at St. Flannans attitude given the punishments handed out for wearing the wrong colour shoes:rolleyes:

I'm not saying the school should take full responsibility for this (Parents have a role to play here too) but surely the school would be able to identify the pupils and if they don't want / can't be ar%ed dealing with it at least inform parents.

If I thought my young fella was involved in something like this he'd be dealt with :mad:.

Balagan

MyKeyG wrote: »

......
<Mod snip> Flannans has been approached numerous times and <Mod snip> [their] attitude left a lot to be desired. In no uncertain terms we were told that it wasn't their problem off the premises. In my opinion when you're in the uniform you reflect the name of the school.

They certainly do represent the name of the school wherever and whenever they are in uniform! Never quite understood why droves of Flannans' students use that lane. It's not a shortcut to anywhere for them, is it? Am surprised that the College says what happens off campus is not its problem. Time was when the now retired Principal would recognize a bunch of kids from brief descriptions and get issues dealt with smartish whether they were taking place on or off campus. Have the residents sent signed and registered letters to the Board of Management and the Parents Association setting out the anti social issues involved?

MyKeyG

Balagan wrote: »

They certainly do represent the name of the school wherever and whenever they are in uniform! Never quite understood why droves of Flannans' students use that lane. It's not a shortcut to anywhere for them, is it? Am surprised that the College says what happens off campus is not its problem. Time was when the now retired Principal would recognize a bunch of kids from brief descriptions and get issues dealt with smartish whether they were taking place on or off campus. Have the residents sent signed and registered letters to the Board of Management and the Parents Association setting out the anti social issues involved?

Well that's my point. They go there for the very reason that it's so secluded, that's what makes it so popular with the kids and late night revelers up to no good.
We describe it as a country lane in the middle of town. They know that up the town there are business owners, members of the public and even the Gardai around. Look kids will be kids, guys and girls come up for a bit of a snog but most of them come up to misbehave with impunity. The other week they were setting off fire works and I merely said 'Lads this is a residential area cop on' he replied 'Does your dog fancy one up his hole?' By the time I got my phone out to take a picture they had bolted. We don't need this.
We have made official written complaints to the School and the Gardai. The problem is that it's a public lane we can't stop anyone from coming up it but we still have to deal with it. And my point is we don't need yet another potential powder keg of trouble if a certain element given to a lifestyle of drugs and alcohol abuse were to be attracted to the lane out of the view of the authorities.
I have every sympathy for people who have fallen into such a life. It's very often because of a hard childhood or depression. But unfortunately it doesn't change the reality that their conduct in other areas of town such as the Holy Family school as I explained in a previous post has proven to be anti social in the least.

Clareman

For the people that don't know this laneway I would ask that you have a look at it on Google Maps to get an idea of the issues that people are talking about http://goo.gl/maps/wqzoR

I just noticed that when I put in the "Walking Directions" into Google that it warned

Use caution – This route may be missing sidewalks or pedestrian paths.

That's not really good for a business designed for serving people without cars or other modes of transport.

KarmaBaby

maiden wrote: »

Wow, a totally inappropriate comment, it's a pity people don't read other members posts correctly before replying and making a comment like this

This isn't about in my back garden, but the holier than thou brigade can't seen to see what other members have posted either that or they choose to ignore it, the debate is very clear here NO ONE SAID IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, it's a question of where it should be and the fact that it has to follow planning rules like everyone else

I'm all for a soup kitchen but why put it where there is anti social behaviour already, that doesn't make sense,
So my question is to karma baby, and others on here, are you happy for it to go next door to you? If so, let the council know that you and the residents in your area are happy for this to be set up beside you, There may be an empty house two doors from you that would be perfect for this! And the council I'm sure will be delighted to hear from you and your neighbours, let us know how you get on? The perfect happy compromise I think!

Could you please show me exactly where I stated that I thought the location of the Soup Kitchen was appropriate? I have made only one very brief post in this thread and it was responded to by several angry residents making wild assumptions about my position, before I've even stated it. This is precisely the proiblem here. The anger of residents is being directed unconstructively and in the wrong direction.

Wether it was intentional or not, Mikey implied by association that the existence of the Soup Kitchen would increase crime rates in the area and present a danger to familes. But it is very clear that this danger existed independent of and before the Soup Kitchen's existnece, so I would like to know exactly why incidents of crime are constantly being brought up in this thread, when clearly, the Soup Kitchen is not responsible for them.

Having previously worked in Soup Kitchens in residential areas of Istanbul, I can tell you that should a Soup Kitchen open up in my area in Ireland, I would be the first person to volunteer to work in it. However, I actually agree that a better location should be found.

The problem with those opposed to the Soup kitchen in this thread, is that for all their criticisms of the proprietor, they too have failed to come up with a viable alternative. I would propose that residents should organise and do two things.

Firsly, instead of attacking the proprietor of the Soup Kitchen and taking a legal battle against him. WORK WITH HIM to find a more appropriate central location in Ennis for the soup kitchen. Why haven't you done this?

Secondly since there is obviously a lot of anger of certain societal issues in your area, such as crime and poverty, then instead of organising against a man that is trying to help with this problem, organise and direct your anger at the local council and politicians that are supporting austerity policies which are driving families into poverty and crime.

The Soup Kitchen exists, because of Austerity, but incredibly, having searched through the thread, I am the first person to make that point.

Clareman

KarmaBaby wrote: »

The Soup Kitchen exists, because of Austerity, but incredibly, having searched through the thread, I am the first person to make that point.

Soup Kitchens have existed for centuries, I'd nearly go as far as to say since time began and it's existence has nothing to do with austerity, it has to do with the fact that people need help. There are many reasons along with austerity why people need help (alcohol, drugs, gambling, illness).

golfball37

Clareman wrote: »

Soup Kitchens have existed for centuries, I'd nearly go as far as to say since time began and it's existence has nothing to do with austerity, it has to do with the fact that people need help. There are many reasons along with austerity why people need help (alcohol, drugs, gambling, illness).

This new wave of Soup kitchens nationwide only exist because of Austerity. That is irrefutable.

Thats why we weren't having this debate 10 years ago and why there was no need for Mr Williams previously.

Clareman

Someone opening up a chain of soup kitchens is hardly a new wave. Also, I'm sure the dropping of religious orders has resulted in an increase in non-religious people helping out.

Austerity has a lot to be blamed for, but the opening of Soup Kitchens, not so much (the increase for the need for soup kitchens, yes)

Lady Chatterton

Clareman wrote: »

Someone opening up a chain of soup kitchens is hardly a new wave. Also, I'm sure the dropping of religious orders has resulted in an increase in non-religious people helping out.

Austerity has a lot to be blamed for, but the opening of Soup Kitchens, not so much (the increase for the need for soup kitchens, yes)

I disagree, I can see first hand in my workplace that there is a new category of poor. They're people who would previously have been very comfortable but are now struggling to meet their monthly mortgage and car repayments. You have to remember that there are lots of people who borrowed large amounts and didn't foresee two people in the family being out of work at the same time.

If you listen to representatives from Saint Vincent De Paul and other charities they're saying that a lot of the people who are looking for help from them are middle class people who up until a few years ago used to donate to SVP.

Clareman

MrsD007 wrote: »

I disagree, I can see first hand in my workplace that there is a new category of poor. They're people who would previously have been very comfortable but are now struggling to meet their monthly mortgage and car repayments. You have to remember that there are lots of people who borrowed large amounts and didn't foresee two people in the family being out of work at the same time.

If you listen to representatives from Saint Vincent De Paul and other charities they're saying that a lot of the people who are looking for help come from them are middle class people who up until a few years ago used to donate to SVP.

Austerity to me are measures brought in by a government to try to reduce budget deficits, stuff like cuts in social welfare, increase in tax. The economic downturn (people out of jobs, house prices falling) is a different issue.

Lady Chatterton

Clareman wrote: »

Austerity to me are measures brought in by a government to try to reduce budget deficits, stuff like cuts in social welfare, increase in tax. The economic downturn (people out of jobs, house prices falling) is a different issue.

Yes, but they're linked.

The increase in new levies and taxes - Universal Social Charge, Carbon levies, Property Tax and (proposed) water charges are causing a lot of pain and are leaving some families struggling.

You have a cohort of people who are paying taxes and charges but they're unable to obtain any form of state assistance.

pilate 1

MrsD007 wrote: »

Yes, but they're linked.

The increase in new levies and taxes - Universal Social Charge, Carbon levies, Property Tax and (proposed) water charges are causing a lot of pain and are leaving some families struggling.

You have a cohort of people who are paying taxes and charges but they're unable to obtain any form of state assistance.

mrs d is youre suggestion that the cohort of people that you mention are the people who will avail of this soup kitchen? i just dont see it.the bottom line seems to be IF there is a need for a soup it is in the completly the wrong location.

Lady Chatterton

pilate 1 wrote: »

mrs d is youre suggestion that the cohort of people that you mention are the people who will avail of this soup kitchen? i just dont see it.the bottom line seems to be IF there is a need for a soup it is in the completly the wrong location.

If they're going to SVP, I presume they'll be happy to accept help from anywhere they can get it.

MyKeyG

KarmaBaby wrote: »

The anger of residents is being directed unconstructively and in the wrong direction.

If the residents had been told in time we would have been able to construct a proper opposition. He snuck in All Ireland weekend thinking we'd all be too busy to notice.

Mikey implied by association that the existence of the Soup Kitchen would increase crime rates in the area and present a danger to familes. But it is very clear that this danger existed independent of and before the Soup Kitchen's existnece, so I would like to know exactly why incidents of crime are constantly being brought up in this thread, when clearly, the Soup Kitchen is not responsible for them.

Mods this is in my opinion defamatory I never made any such claim. I didn't say it WOULD I merely said I was concerned that it might. I said that we already had enough trouble AND we didn't need any more from a particular element that this venture MIGHT attract ON TOP of the trouble we already have. Are people able to read basic English???

Firsly, instead of attacking the proprietor of the Soup Kitchen and taking a legal battle against him. WORK WITH HIM to find a more appropriate central location in Ennis for the soup kitchen. Why haven't you done this?

That's a great idea! I'm sure you'll come and help us since you feel so passionately about the whole affair...yep that's what I thought!!!

Secondly since there is obviously a lot of anger of certain societal issues in your area, such as crime and poverty, then instead of organising against a man that is trying to help with this problem, organise and direct your anger at the local council and politicians that are supporting austerity policies which are driving families into poverty and crime.

Due to legal reasons I can't state here what this man has done. Residents refused to give interviews to RTE yesterday in order to protect their identity. Again for legal reasons I can't say why they were in such fear.

I'll make you a deal KarmaBaby, even though I reserve the right to object to this in my area and don't feel any of us have to work with this guy at all, send me your mobile number or if you want I'll send you mine and we'll go and meet Oliver Williams together and help him find an alternative place for his soup kitchen since you feel so strongly as to put words in our mouths.

Lady Chatterton

MyKeyG wrote: »

Mods this is in my opinion defamatory I never made any such claim. I didn't say it WOULD I merely said I was concerned that it might. I said that we already had enough trouble AND we didn't need any more from a particular element that this venture MIGHT attract ON TOP of the trouble we already have. Are people able to read basic English???

MyKeyG, you have made your position very clear in your posts and you've carefully set out your concerns about the location and its pre-existing issues.