No Soup Kitchen in Ennis?

KarmaBaby

Clareman wrote: »

Soup Kitchens have existed for centuries, I'd nearly go as far as to say since time began and it's existence has nothing to do with austerity, it has to do with the fact that people need help. There are many reasons along with austerity why people need help (alcohol, drugs, gambling, illness).

Austerity has existed for centuries too. It's just a new word for rich elites putting the boot into poor people. Alcohol addiction and drugs are symptoms of poverty and gambling and illness are largely symptoms of an unequal society failing to deal with serious social issues.

KarmaBaby

MyKeyG wrote: »

If the residents had been told in time we would have been able to construct a proper opposition. He snuck in All Ireland weekend thinking we'd all be too busy to notice.
Mods this is in my opinion defamatory I never made any such claim. I didn't say it WOULD I merely said I was concerned that it might. I said that we already had enough trouble AND we didn't need any more from a particular element that this venture MIGHT attract ON TOP of the trouble we already have. Are people able to read basic English???

Here is what you said earlier.

"I tell you what guys, come on down here whenever you want. You'll get to meet the guy from the Mens shelter that exposed himself to my neighbours while drunk even though drinking isn't permitted there. You can place a few bob on the Flannan's lads beating ten shades of s**t out of each other at lunch in our back yards. Park your car here over the weekend if you like but be ready to buy new tires come Monday, don't worry you can shop for them while you're shopping for new glass for your broken windows."

By bringing this into the discussion it is very clear that you do believe the soup kitchen will lead to increased crime in the area and that this is the fundamental basis for your opposition to its existence. Out of curiosity, did the previous religious center seek permission from residents? I highly doubt it.

The rhetoric you come out with and your abusive tone is precisely why people have no sympathy for you. Can I "read basic English?" Hello? Do you see me being abusive or condescending towards you?

I'm absolutely aware that the proprietor didn't seek permission from the residents but you don't seen me condoning this either. I agree that residents should have a say in these matters. But what's done is done and its your approach now that is not helping the issue at all.

MyKeyG wrote: »

That's a great idea! I'm sure you'll come and help us since you feel so passionately about the whole affair...yep that's what I thought!!!

Due to legal reasons I can't state here what this man has done. Residents refused to give interviews to RTE yesterday in order to protect their identity. Again for legal reasons I can't say why they were in such fear.

I'll make you a deal KarmaBaby, even though I reserve the right to object to this in my area and don't feel any of us have to work with this guy at all, send me your mobile number or if you want I'll send you mine and we'll go and meet Oliver Williams together and help him find an alternative place for his soup kitchen since you feel so strongly as to put words in our mouths.

So let me get this straight. I've put forward a positive proposal which you think is a good idea. But you're not going to act on it and instead pursue a legal battle which won't help the soup kitchen and wont help with the social issues in your area.

Are you sure you've thought this plan through?

dr.fuzzenstein

Small people like to hide behind legal reasons.

Lady Chatterton

I feel we are going around in circles on this thread. I would like to see a soup kitchen in Ennis but if we are talking about facts - Oliver Williams opened his premises without seeking planning permission.

It would have been fairer to all concerned if he had gone through the appropriate planning process and consulted with the residents in the area. Instead he has done a mighty job of p1ssing off lots of people - the town council and local residents. I admire what he is trying to do but he needs to show respect for our planning laws and the people residing close to his premises. I fear that he will do his charity more harm in the long term if he goes from town to town opening up where he wants and ignoring planning regulations.

pilate 1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Small people like to hide behind legal reasons.

in reference to youre first post, it does seem to be a problem with location and people with objections have a democratic right to pursue legal action if they see fit.(not just small people):;)

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, I hope a solution can be found that suits everybody.

MyKeyG

By bringing this into the discussion it is very clear that you do believe the soup kitchen will lead to increased crime in the area and that this is the fundamental basis for your opposition to its existence.

I said I was concerned it MIGHT!!! How many times do I have to use the same word???

Out of curiosity, did the previous religious center seek permission from residents? I highly doubt it.

No they didn't, and that was a reason for concern too. They parked their cars everywhere, no access to emergency services even though their meetings were beside a coal yard. The residents were up in arms but I went up, accusations were flying from both sides, I shook the church leaders hand, I gave him my number and told him I'd work with his project. Did I hear anything back? NO!

The rhetoric you come out with and your abusive tone is precisely why people have no sympathy for you. Can I "read basic English?" Hello? Do you see me being abusive or condescending towards you?

Abusive? Rhetoric? They're very strong terms KarmaBaby. If you feel that way it was never my intention to come across as such but it feels like I'm going in circles with some people here.

I'm absolutely aware that the proprietor didn't seek permission from the residents but you don't seen me condoning this either. I agree that residents should have a say in these matters. But what's done is done and its your approach now that is not helping the issue at all.

And what exactly is my approach?

So let me get this straight. I've put forward a positive proposal which you think is a good idea. But you're not going to act on it and instead pursue a legal battle which won't help the soup kitchen and wont help with the social issues in your area.

No I actually invited you to join me in approaching this man. You're more than welcome to join us in meeting this guy. I said that. Very clearly you just chose not to recognise it. Or am I being abusive and condescending again??? Put your money where your mouth is KarmaBaby.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, this is turning into a shouting match down the pub.
Have the residents engaged with anyone in this matter, or are they're just shouting Ulster Says No!?

MyKeyG

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, this is turning into a shouting match down the pub.
Have the residents engaged with anyone in this matter, or are they're just shouting Ulster Says No!?

OK you call this a row down the pub and then you hit out with a provocative comment? If you bothered to read any previous posts you would see that more than once I stated that the residents have engaged with all parties concerned in all matters regarding the lane. Whether that be Flannan's College, the church group or Oliver Williams!
I told you we went to Flannan's, I told you I gave my mobile number to the leader of the church, I told you we contacted the Gardai regarding intimidation, I told you we were willing to talk to this guy. HE WON'T SPEAK TO US!!! So what the hell are you going on about? Until I see evidence that you've read all the posts on this thread then I refuse to deal with you!

KarmaBaby

MyKeyG wrote: »

I said I was concerned it MIGHT!!! How many times do I have to use the same word???No they didn't, and that was a reason for concern too. They parked their cars everywhere, no access to emergency services even though their meetings were beside a coal yard. The residents were up in arms but I went up, accusations were flying from both sides, I shook the church leaders hand, I gave him my number and told him I'd work with his project. Did I hear anything back? NO!

It doesn't matter how many times you type it back to me in capitals. The word "might" wasn't used or even implied by you anywhere in what I quoted.

You didn't take legal action against the religious group, but you are taking it against the Soup Kitchen. Do you think it is particularly fair to take legal action against the Soup kitchen because of what you fear "might" happen? Yes I know you're going to tell me this is not the reason, but based on the precedent you set by not taking action against the previous organisation, I don't believe you.

I'm sure there is also not the same issue of cars parked everywhere nowadays, unless there is a priest delivering mass before supper?

MyKeyG wrote: »

And what exactly is my approach?

Blinkered, reactionary, unable to take constructive criticism on board, generally jumping down people's throats. Inability to work through problems with civil discussion. General abusive tone.

This has been your approach throughout this thread.

MyKeyG wrote: »

No I actually invited you to join me in approaching this man. You're more than welcome to join us in meeting this guy. I said that. Very clearly you just chose not to recognise it. Or am I being abusive and condescending again??? Put your money where your mouth is KarmaBaby.

I have absolutely no wish to have any association with you whatsoever outside of a discussion on this forum.

The fact that that you would even propose this is a solution - inviting someone you don't know, from an online forum, with no association to your local community to get involved - shows that you yourself are isolated within your community and do not have the support of your fellow residents.

If indeed you had that support, you could come together, organise and find a solution based on the local community working to solve this problem. Since this hasn't happened, then I think the local opposition to the Soup Kitchen has been grossly overstated both here and in the media.

This is backed up by the ridiculous claim that local residents don't wish to be named for legal reasons. Where are all these residents that are up in arms?

Do the two men and a dog have names?

Lady Chatterton

Please cut out the sniping and overly personal remarks.

KarmaBaby

MrsD007 wrote: »

I feel we are going around in circles on this thread. I would like to see a soup kitchen in Ennis but if we are talking about facts - Oliver Williams opened his premises without seeking planning permission.

It would have been fairer to all concerned if he had gone through the appropriate planning process and consulted with the residents in the area. Instead he has done a mighty job of p1ssing off lots of people - the town council and local residents. I admire what he is trying to do but he needs to show respect for our planning laws and the people residing close to his premises. I fear that he will do his charity more harm in the long term if he goes from town to town opening up where he wants and ignoring planning regulations.

Why was legal action not taken against the previous proprietor of the same building for doing precisely the same thing that Oliver Williams did?

I'm sure the soup kitchen is not causing the same problems of parking and blocking of emergency exits as was happening before.

Lady Chatterton

Oliver Williams needs to apply for planning permission, end of. No one should be above the law, even if their intentions are good. As I've said before, I feel that this has turned into a public relations disaster for him.

KarmaBaby

MrsD007 wrote: »

Oliver Williams needs to apply for planning permission, end of. No one should be above the law, even if their intentions are good. As I've said before, I feel that this has turned into a public relations disaster for him.

Your feigned sympathy for Oliver Williams is rather boorish.

And to say that this is a "PR disaster" for a man that is dedicating his life to helping the vulnerable, is absolutely ludicrous. I'm pretty sure the people he is helping are more than grateful.

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that residents should be protected by legislation such as proper planning permission, so I don't know why you keep bringing this up. I agree.

What I'm disputing are the real motives behind the legal action taken against the Soup Kitchen. I don't believe it is anything to do with planning permission.

And you didn't answer my question...

..Why wasn't legal action taken by residents against the previous proprietor who also did not apply for planning permission?

Lady Chatterton

KarmaBaby wrote: »

Your feigned sympathy for Oliver Williams is rather boorish.

And to say that this is a "PR disaster" for a man that is dedicating his life to helping the vulnerable, is absolutely ludicrous. I'm pretty sure the people he is helping are more than grateful.

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that residents should be protected by legislation such as proper planning permission, so I don't know why you keep bringing this up. I agree.

What I'm disputing are the real motives behind the legal action taken against the Soup Kitchen. I don't believe it is anything to do with planning permission.

And you didn't answer my question...

..Why wasn't legal action taken by residents against the previous proprietor who also did not apply for planning permission?

I'm beginning to think that you're trolling, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt up to now.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing further to say, you're going around in circles, you might be better served assisting Mr. Williams to get his affairs in order. He needs to start by obtaining appropriate planning permission for his soup kitchen.

pilate 1

MrsD007 wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that you're trolling, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt up to now.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing further to say, you're going around in circles, you might be better served assisting Mr. Williams to get his affairs in order. He needs to start by obtaining appropriate planning permission for his soup kitchen.

any chance of locking this mrs d?(not like me i know!!) but this is going nowhere and driving me nuts!

pilate 1

pilate 1 wrote: »

any chance of locking this mrs d?(not like me i know!!) but this is going nowhere and driving me nuts!

maybe if baby got a soother she might stay quiet for a while:)

CptSternn

Best restaurant thread yet!

Lady Chatterton

pilate 1 wrote: »

any chance of locking this mrs d?(not like me i know!!) but this is going nowhere and driving me nuts!

Pilate, you want a Mod to lock a thread :eek::eek::eek:

Are you feeling alright?

I feel the thread is going around in circles and has gotten overly personal at times but we'll leave it open for the moment.

KarmaBaby

MrsD007 wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that you're trolling, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt up to now.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing further to say, you're going around in circles, you might be better served assisting Mr. Williams to get his affairs in order. He needs to start by obtaining appropriate planning permission for his soup kitchen.

I asked a question twice that the residents posting in this thread refuse to answer. That isn't trolling. And I was under the impression that it was against the rules of the forum to accuse someone of trolling, but I guess that rule doesn't apply to mods.

So one last time I'll ask.

Why is the Soup Kitchen being treated differently to the previous proprietor?

The religious organisation that occupied the premises previously also did not apply for planning permission and from the evidence given by residents here, it appeared to cause more disruption: parking, blocking emergency exits etc.

So why take legal action against the Soup Kitchen and not the Religious group?

A very simple question that I'm asking for the third time. This isn't trolling in any genuine understanding of the term.

KarmaBaby

pilate 1 wrote: »

maybe if baby got a soother she might stay quiet for a while:)

??

Jesus, this place is a cesspit of ignorance.

Lady Chatterton

I have no wish to add anything further, Karmababy.

I mentioned trolling because it is clear that you're not reading posts, if you were you wouldn't feel the need to ask the same questions over and over again in a hostile manner. This is an internet forum not a tribunal, no one is compelled to provide you or anyone else with information.

In case you missed it, I would like to see a soup kitchen in Ennis but only if it has appropriate planning permission and this applies to anyone who decides to open a business not just a soup kitchen. This wasn't Oliver Williams first soup kitchen so there was no excuse for operating without correct planning, it's concerning that it was overlooked.

KarmaBaby

MrsD007 wrote: »

I have no wish to add anything further, Karmababy.

I mentioned trolling because it is clear that you're not reading posts, if you were you wouldn't feel the need to ask the same questions over and over again in a hostile manner. This is an internet forum not a tribunal, no one is compelled to provide you or anyone else with information.

In case you missed it, I would like to see a soup kitchen in Ennis but only if it has appropriate planning permission and this applies to anyone who decides to open a business not just a soup kitchen. This wasn't Oliver Williams first soup kitchen so there was no excuse for operating without correct planning, it's concerning that it was overlooked.

Where have I been "hostile"? I've been perfectly civil.

Would this not fall into the hostile category?

maybe if baby got a soother she might stay quiet for a while?

I mean why are "contributions" such as this left unmoderated?

pilate 1

KarmaBaby wrote: »

??

Jesus, this place is a cesspit of ignorance.

and waffel:)

dr.fuzzenstein

MrsD007 wrote: »

I have no wish to add anything further, Karmababy.

I mentioned trolling because it is clear that you're not reading posts, if you were you wouldn't feel the need to ask the same questions over and over again in a hostile manner. This is an internet forum not a tribunal, no one is compelled to provide you or anyone else with information.

In case you missed it, I would like to see a soup kitchen in Ennis but only if it has appropriate planning permission and this applies to anyone who decides to open a business not just a soup kitchen. This wasn't Oliver Williams first soup kitchen so there was no excuse for operating without correct planning, it's concerning that it was overlooked.

+1, I can't argue with that.
If Oliver Williams intention was not to open a soup kitchen, but to stir some sh*te he succeeded and the residents came across very badly as well IMO.
This whole saga is fairly tragic, all sides have acted with nothing but ignorance, arrogance, fcuk you attitude, posturing, arm swinging, chest beating, etc...
If nothing comes of this and nothing was ever supposed to come of it, I take it as a very poor indicator of Irish society in general, where the poor don't matter a sh*te unless they can be used as pawns in a piece of political chess, where every man plows his own furrow and if you can throw some sticks into the other guy's way, all the better and where we do don't want to sound selfish, but this is about ME, ME, ME!
No one got covered in glory in this so far. The biggest losers are the poor, but that's OK, since they don't matter in Irish society anyway.
And don't expect the poor, the homeless and substance addicted to be of flawless character, you don't end up that way if you are a fully functioning member of society. What do you want to do with them? Lock them up in concentration camps? A lot of them will never be functioning members of society, they are not crazy enough to be in care, but too damaged to be able to make it. The do fall inbetween all the chairs and I am amazed just how resentful many so-called Christians are towards them.
At least we're all talking about it, it was so much easier when we could just ignore the issue.

Lady Chatterton

If there are any issues with posts, please report them.

If there is an issue with my posts - they'll be dealt with by Clareman, colm_mc, Kess73 or any of the Category Mods.

Balagan

Man Behind Ennis Soup Kitchen Looking For A New Premises
17 September, 2013 - 13:25
http://clare.fm/news/man-behind-ennis-soup-kitchen-looking-new-premises

CptSternn

I have a question in regards to soup kitchens.

Are they funded publicly or privately?

Here is why I ask. They claim there is a need for a soup kitchen in Ennis. I personally don't know if there is or is not. I wouldn't think there was, but sure, without properly researching the issue or knowing what the council/HSE knows I can't really say either way.

So I would think letting them open one, in a proper suitable agreed on location, would be a good way to find out. If people use it, then there is a need. If it doesn't get a good crowd then obviously it is not needed.

The problem then becomes funding. I lived in America for many years and one of the things 'charity' groups did there was start a charity and raise money for said charity and 90% of that money went directly to the employees who also turns out were on the board of directors for the charity, therefore as directors can collect a salary. What is even worse, many get government funding since they are charities. This means you could pick a cause like 'save the snails' and get a couple mates together, throw some fundraiser parties, and make a killing as people who donate can write off the entire donation on their taxes AND the government would then also give you a nice cheque on top of that as well.

You end up with charities which are not really charities but just money making ventures for a few people.

It's why I was wondering here, if this soup kitchen got the green light from the council would it be funded by the Irish government therefore ensuring no matter if there is an actual need or not it would stay open thanks to taxpayers.

dr.fuzzenstein

Will the government fund a soup kitchen? When Shannon airport has 90% pigs taking off maybe.

Anyways, residents, you happy?

miss tickle

As far as I know there used to be an establishment a mile outside town serving lunch for those in need. The food was cooked and supplied free by local hoteliers in the area. Word has it, it was closed down by a health inspector, for having only one access door. This was a major loss to those who relied on it.