Catholic intolerance

Banbh

Yesterday in the Galway Clinic, they were saying Mass in the main open-plan lobby with amplification so that it could be heard all over - in the canteen, in the shops, in the waiting area. Such tolerance and respect for others!

While sipping my latte I noticed that in addition to the triple god, the godess Mary and the pantheon of supporting minor deities, they were asking for mercy from the 'Lamb of God' who has the power to remove sin from the world. I hadn't come across this fearful lamb before; is it official Catholic theology?

the_syco

Banbh wrote: »

I hadn't come across this fearful lamb before; is it official Catholic theology?

From Wikipedia;
Jesus is the lamb;

It appears at John 1:29, where John the Baptist sees Jesus and exclaims, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

It is also a heavy metal band \m/

Doctor DooM

I vaguely recall that the bulk of mass was completed when the man in the dress says the following:

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us;
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace.

In reference to Jeebus.

I'm confused, don't most churches in Ireland have a kind of all purpose church room thingy for masses?

Also, Lamb of god played here recently!

kylith

Banbh wrote: »

Yesterday in the Galway Clinic, they were saying Mass in the main open-plan lobby with amplification so that it could be heard all over - in the canteen, in the shops, in the waiting area. Such tolerance and respect for others!

While sipping my latte I noticed that in addition to the triple god, the godess Mary and the pantheon of supporting minor deities, they were asking for mercy from the 'Lamb of God' who has the power to remove sin from the world. I hadn't come across this fearful lamb before; is it official Catholic theology?

You never heard of the Lamb of God?! Oh, it's a wonderful little chant.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us (x 3)
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace.

I'm quite fond of the Irish version. As with most songs as gaeilge it's rather beautiful.

Banbh

I don't know if it was a special saint's day or if this is a regular event at the Galway Clinic but I did meet God. He is going to perform a miracle on me through surgery with latest knowledge from medical science and he is going to charge my insurance company a deservedly large sum for performing this miracle.

If the Lamb of God (or Jesus) can take away all the sins in the world and, despite the millions of appeals to him for centuries, he has failed to do so, one must conclude that (A) he does not have that power or (B) he's not going to. So why do the Catholic Mass people keep bothering him?

lmaopml

Banbh wrote: »

Yesterday in the Galway Clinic, they were saying Mass in the main open-plan lobby with amplification so that it could be heard all over - in the canteen, in the shops, in the waiting area. Such tolerance and respect for others!

While sipping my latte I noticed that in addition to the triple god, the godess Mary and the pantheon of supporting minor deities, they were asking for mercy from the 'Lamb of God' who has the power to remove sin from the world. I hadn't come across this fearful lamb before; is it official Catholic theology?

The clinic has a Catholic ethos, but it welcomes people of all denominations and none apparently and will sell lattes to all and sundry.

Catholics in Mass saying shocker? - er no not really. I'm shocked you are shocked - we sometimes even say Mass in the open air believe it or not :eek:

gaynorvader

I believe Jesus is the Lamb because he "sacrificed" himself in place of the Lamb for passover or some such.

Banbh

Or anywhere you can get in the faces of people who don't share your view.

As your power ebbs, you are giving a good marker on how to behave to those who will replace you. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Cabaal

Banbh wrote: »

I don't know if it was a special saint's day or if this is a regular event at the Galway Clinic but I did meet God. He is going to perform a miracle on me through surgery with latest knowledge from medical science and he is going to charge my insurance company a deservedly large sum for performing this miracle.

Thats not paying your insurance company, thats paying a "voluntary" donation to the church

lmaopml

Banbh wrote: »

Or anywhere you can get in the faces of people who don't share your view.

As your power ebbs, you are giving a good marker on how to behave to those who will replace you. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Yeah ok whatever you're into there I hope you sort it out.

Hope you enjoyed your latte and best of luck with the operation.

magicbastarder

is catholic intolerance a bit like gluten intolerance?

magicbastarder

i can't eat more than one catholic. gives me terrible wind.

Banbh

Hope you enjoyed your latte and best of luck with the operation.

Thank you.

Weathering

Wtf does you drinking a latte have to do with the story? Guess what? Listening to it didn't kill ya god grow a set

Banbh

Do you want to try that again in a less ignorant - and, may I say, more Christian - tone? Otherwise...

Weathering

Banbh wrote: »

Do you want to try that again in a less ignorant - and, may I say, more Christian - tone? Otherwise...

I couldn't care, I have no time for the church. It just baffles me that you'd make a thread about this. Pointless

Banbh

If you were going about your business and were obliged to wait in, say an airport or Garda station, and were subject to a broadcast by a group of people who control much of public life and whose views you find ignorant and intolerant, would you be baffled at people who comment on this in a forum dedicated to reason and tolerance?
I find it bizarre that Catholic apologists come onto an Atheist and Agnostic forum and feel aggrieved when they find posters commenting on religious control of the public space.
I suppose, as the support for, and control by, the Catholic Church dwindles, we will see more of this rearguard action.

Weathering

Banbh wrote: »

If you were going about your business and were obliged to wait in, say an airport or Garda station, and were subject to a broadcast by a group of people who control much of public life and whose views you find ignorant and intolerant, would you be baffled at people who comment on this in a forum dedicated to reason and tolerance?
I find it bizarre that Catholic apologists come onto an Atheist and Agnostic forum and feel aggrieved when they find posters commenting on religious control of the public space.
I suppose, as the support for, and control by, the Catholic Church dwindles, we will see more of this rearguard action.

I find it hypocritical that you rant about ignorance and intolerance yet you yourself are those very things towards the church. You were in a clinic that follows the Catholic ethos hardly surprising then?? I have already said I have no time for the church, I haven't been to mass in over ten years nor do I seek to change that any time soon.

Airport, Garda station please get a grip. You have little to complain about if you feel so aggrieved after this experience. I wish I had your problems

Benny_Cake

Banbh wrote: »

If you were going about your business and were obliged to wait in, say an airport or Garda station, and were subject to a broadcast by a group of people who control much of public life and whose views you find ignorant and intolerant, would you be baffled at people who comment on this in a forum dedicated to reason and tolerance?
I find it bizarre that Catholic apologists come onto an Atheist and Agnostic forum and feel aggrieved when they find posters commenting on religious control of the public space.
I suppose, as the support for, and control by, the Catholic Church dwindles, we will see more of this rearguard action.

The Galway Clinic is a private hospital run by Catholics. Running a religious service in one of it's public areas once a week hardly represents persecution. I dunno, might not be a bad idea to pick your fights. Hope your surgery goes well.

robindch

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The Galway Clinic is a private hospital run by Catholics.

The state is prohibited by the Constitution from endowing religion, so as long as the Clinic isn't state-funded and not state-owned, then catholics are entirely free to do whatever legal things they like on their own property and on their own time.

magicbastarder

robindch wrote: »

The state is prohibited by the Constitution from endowing religion, so as long as the Clinic isn't state-funded and not state-owned, then catholics are entirely free to do whatever legal things they like on their own property and on their own time.

within reasonable bounds, of course.
if you run a service of any description, you are bound by laws relating to discrimination, so while i'm not suggesting that having mass is discriminatory, it might lend an air of discrimination which would turn lots of people away. which would be a shame if the place is question offered a good service.

Banbh

There are three hospitals in Galway: The Galway Clinic, with its Catholic 'ethos'; the Bon Secours run by the nuns of that order and Galway University Hospital, where Savita died.

It is not acceptable to me to be subjected to a religious service when I am attending a hospital of necessity. My voicing this here was met by the usual Catholic intolerance which proved my point.

We have a long way to go for equal treatment of the non-religious in Ireland.

Brian2208

sounds like you suffer from catholic intolerance

Banbh

sounds like you suffer from catholic intolerance

I do. Mostly in the schools and in the choice of schools and in my youth in the scouts, hospitals and lots of other institutions that are in the grip of the Catholic 'ethos' of intolerance.

Sarky

I've been in all those hospitals. They all have perfectly servicable chapels. Why antagonise people who want nothing to do with catholicism?

old hippy

Something something floodgates something terrorism something mutliculturalism something pc something something

Guyanachronism

Wait if Jesus is the lamb of god? But he's also my shepherd who lays me in pastures green. Does he get two paychecks this way or something?

Turtwig

Didn't shepherds usually eat their sheep?

lmaopml

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The Galway Clinic is a private hospital run by Catholics. Running a religious service in one of it's public areas once a week hardly represents persecution. I dunno, might not be a bad idea to pick your fights. Hope your surgery goes well.

They usually have Mass in the Chapel 10:30 every morning. This was obviously a once off planned celebration of some sort - perhaps an anniversary of it's opening or some other special event, patron saints feast or something, to mark the opening of a new section? I'm not quite sure, but I'd imagine that's what it was...

Same way as Catholics will lead a candle vigil at Easter and may venture from outside the Chapel to the inside in procession and possibly singing. More often than not the Mass is held in the Chapel at the Clinic.

Doctor DooM

lmaopml wrote: »

The clinic has a Catholic ethos, but it welcomes people of all denominations and none apparently and will sell lattes to all and sundry.

Catholics in Mass saying shocker? - er no not really. I'm shocked you are shocked - we sometimes even say Mass in the open air believe it or not :eek:

It is just me or has the word "ethos" more or less come to mean "we do what we want here, sod how other people feel or want to live?" Anyway, as others have said, long as there's an alternative option, and no state money goes into it, yes they should be able to do what they feel like. Even if I feel it's a bit...well, mean on the patrons.

I assume Banbh is shocked because the mass was pumped over a sound system and there were ill, upset, sick and recovering people there, some of whom could probably done without the intrusion. I can remember recovery time from a particularly intrusive operation and that would have been the last thing I wanted to hear.

lmaopml

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It is just me or has the word "ethos" more or less come to mean "we do what we want here, sod how other people feel or want to live?"

I assume Banbh is shocked because the mass was pumped over a sound system and there were ill, upset, sick and recovering people there, some of whom could probably done without the intrusion.

I don't know Doctor how loud they were, I wasn't there. I'll reserve judgement on that considering...

Obviously if they disturbed the patients (which apparently wasn't the case) than I'd imagine there will be complaints and they will oblige by apologising and getting a better volume adjusted microphone so that only the attendees are in hearing distance. Problem solved.

Benny_Cake

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I assume Banbh is shocked because the mass was pumped over a sound system and there were ill, upset, sick and recovering people there, some of whom could probably done without the intrusion. I can remember recovery time from a particularly intrusive operation and that would have been the last thing I wanted to hear.

If it's the case that it was being pumped throughout the hospital on a sound system, then fair enough, that would be intrusive and annoying. If it's in a public area set aside for that for a brief period, then a degree of live and let live must come into it.

I'd agree that there is a significant difference between a public hospital, such as the University hospital in Galway, and a private hospital such as this clinic. Don't some hospitals hold Mass in a chapel and make the audio available over the hospital's radio station (if hospitals still have those!)? Would seem like a reasonable solution to me.

robindch

Sarky wrote: »

Why antagonise people who want nothing to do with catholicism?

Because the message of deity's love should be shared with all womankind?

Doctor DooM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

If it's the case that it was being pumped throughout the hospital on a sound system, then fair enough, that would be intrusive and annoying. If it's in a public area set aside for that for a brief period, then a degree of live and let live must come into it.

I'd agree that there is a significant difference between a public hospital, such as the University hospital in Galway, and a private hospital such as this clinic. Don't some hospitals hold Mass in a chapel and make the audio available over the hospital's radio station (if hospitals still have those!)? Would seem like a reasonable solution to me.

Me too, I'm just recalling how I felt when I was trying to walk for the first time with stitches and the horrible alien feeling I had mixed with pain, or the blind panic I felt when I heard my mother was really sick and I was rushing through the hospital. In both situations, the last thing I would have wanted to encounter is a group of people chanting. I'm not saying they shouldn't be doing it, especially if the place is private. Just seems a little... light on the cop on.

jank

User of a private hospital which has a religious ethos complains about intolerance of said religion as they hold a service on their private property. I wonder who is actually being intolerant here.

Malari

Jernal wrote: »

Didn't shepherds usually eat their sheep?

That's why people traditionally have a leg of the lamb of god at Easter.

Guyanachronism

Jernal wrote: »

Didn't shepherds usually eat their sheep?

Catholics eat their saviour every Sunday.

Good old transubstantiation.

Cabaal

Guyanachronism wrote: »

Catholics eat their saviour every Sunday.

Good old transubstantiation.

I know, its great!
I eat pasta atleast once a week,

Its an important part of showing my respect to the FSM, may we be blessed by his noodly appendages

Weathering

Malari wrote: »

That's why people traditionally have a leg of the lamb of god at Easter.

Dad is that you? Nobody tells joke as badly as you

Malari

Weathering wrote: »

Dad is that you? Nobody tells joke as badly as you

No, it's my dad's joke though :P It's the way I tell 'em!

the_syco

robindch wrote: »

The state is prohibited by the Constitution from endowing religion, so as long as the Clinic isn't state-funded and not state-owned, then catholics are entirely free to do whatever legal things they like on their own property and on their own time.

About that... privately owned, but I do believe there was some controversy about the funding of the state-owned equipment, the state-sponsored salaries, state-sponsored stuff in general, the fact that the private clinic was charging the state and/or public for using state-owned equipment in the private hospital instead of having said equipment in the public hospital... :pac:

Hotblack Desiato

Weathering wrote: »

Airport, Garda station please get a grip. You have little to complain about if you feel so aggrieved after this experience. I wish I had your problems

Tch. Another self-loathing atheist.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Me too, I'm just recalling how I felt when I was trying to walk for the first time with stitches and the horrible alien feeling I had mixed with pain, or the blind panic I felt when I heard my mother was really sick and I was rushing through the hospital. In both situations, the last thing I would have wanted to encounter is a group of people chanting. I'm not saying they shouldn't be doing it, especially if the place is private. Just seems a little... light on the cop on.

I posted before how in a large Dublin public hospital a few years ago, I got the priest round, (after being asked my religion on admission, and stating 'none') who asked me, immobile in bed with a broken leg, whether he could bless me. I said no thanks, but he proceeded to put his hand on me and mumble anyway :mad: that's just not on.

But yeah, hipster atheists driving religion underground, persecution, mutter mutter, first world problems, secular conspiracy, mutter mutter, haven't we a right to our holy catholic inheritance, yiz are all intolerant for not succumbing to the overbearing zero-dissent-tolerated monoculture :rolleyes:

Shure what's the harm. You let me practise my religion in peace, and I'll respect the right of my religion to intrude into your life and the education of your kids at every possible opportunity, aided by public money. It's the traditional way.

Banbh

Well my operation was a success and I have learned some interesting stuff:

Every hospital has an ethos. This is almost certainly a Catholic ethos. All Galway hospitals have a Catholic ethos. VHI and Laya only offer plans covering medical conditions and accommodation but offer no choice of ethos. MDs don't choose hospitals based on ethos. An ethos allows a hospital to intrude religious practices on patients and visitors regardless of their wishes.

I have also learned that there are atheists who regard comment on a hospital's ethos as being unacceptable and that non-believers should not upset the status quo, even by commenting on atheist forums.

Now that I am back in the whole of my health, I will ask the VHI to add the ethos of all the hospitals in their plans in future booklets. And I will continue to voice my objection to the intrusion of religion on me.

Thanks for the well-wishing.

I Heart Internet

Banbh wrote: »

And I will continue to voice my objection to the intrusion of religion on me.

Delighted you're well after the operation OP.

How did the hospital intrude religion on you, apart from the mass in the public (as in public access...I note it was a "private" hospital) foyer?

Would you also object to shopping centres playing "Oh Come all ye Faithful" in December? Same deal, no?

old hippy

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Delighted you're well after the operation OP.

How did the hospital intrude religion on you, apart from the mass in the public (as in public access...I note it was a "private" hospital) foyer?

Would you also object to shopping centres playing "Oh Come all ye Faithful" in December? Same deal, no?

You can walk out if it offends you. Not so easy if you're laid up recovering in the hospital bed.

I Heart Internet

old hippy wrote: »

You can walk out if it offends you. Not so easy if you're laid up recovering in the hospital bed.

I thought the mass was in the foyer?

gaynorvader

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I thought the mass was in the foyer?

Or walking around the hospital as part of your recovery.
But if it's a private hospital they can and should be allowed to do what they want in their foyer.

I Heart Internet

gaynorvader wrote: »

Or walking around the hospital as part of your recovery.

One could simple carry on with your stroll, or read a magazine for the 40 minutes.

I imagine the quality of healthcare is what's important - not a hospital's ethos.

gaynorvader

I Heart Internet wrote: »

One could simple carry on with your stroll, or read a magazine for the 40 minutes.

I imagine the quality of healthcare is what's important - not a hospital's ethos.

You can't read a magazine, you're supposed to be walking. I don't see why they can't have services inside the chapel, but as I said before, if it's private they can do what they like so long as they provide decent healthcare.

mohawk

Good to hear your on the mend.
It was probably all that prayer and mass that goes on rather then the doctors training and knowledge.:pac:

I started a thread here about 3 years ago after my son had to spent some time in ICU in a Temple St. We were in bits as the doctors and nurses weren't really telling us anything. I was very p***ed off by a hospital chaplain trying to get me to pray for him. He recovered because he was pumped full of drugs and he had both parents staying as close to him as possible so he would feel reassured that it was going to be okay not because she said that she would say a few prayers for him.

When I posted here I got alot of the same reactions you did.

Because you were in a private clinic it is slightly different I guess, but like you said if you don't know this stuff when you purchase your health insurance then you can understandably be caught off-guard while your enjoying your coffee.

I Heart Internet

gaynorvader wrote: »

You can't read a magazine, you're supposed to be walking. I don't see why they can't have services inside the chapel, but as I said before, if it's private they can do what they like so long as they provide decent healthcare.

Maybe it was a "big Mass" and the chapel was too small so they used the larger, available space.

Live and let live I guess, as you say.