Rep. of Ireland v Sweden - WCQ - K/O 7.45Pm

Hulk Hands

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A dinosaur who qualified us for our first tournament in a decade. You can't take it away from him.

Beating the might of Armenia and Estonia. Non qualification would've been the biggest embarrassment in Irish football for 30 years

Mars Bar

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Gort Co Galway

No point going near there. Hasn't a history of soccer and all the Brazilians are ridiculously good at hurling.

The_Kew_Tour

when was last time we were in front in qualifier and lost at home?

im thinking Austria 1995(might apply to away too)

Fowler87

Martin O Neill lol

aindriu80

Whelan is one player I would drop from the team. He does not do it.

roanoke

Useless stat of the night : first time Ireland have lost two home games in a single campaign since the Euro 72 qualifiers.

Seaneh

Fowler87 wrote: »

Martin O Neill lol

Would be even worse than Trap football wise.

happyoutscan

Fowler87 wrote: »

Martin O Neill lol

Please no, don't even mention his name here!

Amirani

roanoke wrote: »

Useless stat of the night : first time Ireland have lost two home games in a single campaign since the Euro 72 qualifiers.

Some record.

_Kaiser_

Gotta love the playout music there

Andersonisgod

When the governing body of football in Ireland hire a manager like Giovanni Trapatonni and they know what they are getting it sends out a message that graft is more important than guile in the eyes of those in power in Ireland. It's not a new message, simply a reaffirmation of what we already knew. You take it to grass roots level, kids being pigeon holed into positions, the importance placed on results of kids games rather than the development of the players, the actual implementation of competitive games too young and this almost inbred attitude that if you aren't running around like a headless chicken then your not trying and you're not properly playing and that's why this country has, and will never, produce a player with the mercurial genius of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Hiring Martin O'Neil really is a step sidewards and just ushers in more of the same.

swoody

happyoutscan wrote: »

Please no, don't even mention his name here!

dave o leary????????



runs away fasttttttttttt

Kaiser2000

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Gotta love the playout music there

Toss-up between that and ABBA 'Winner takes it all'

JustAddWater

happyoutscan wrote: »

Please no, don't even mention his name here!

Hope someone told him about austria next week, cos according to everyone the job is his lol

The_Kew_Tour

Andersonisgod wrote: »

When the governing body of football in Ireland hire a manager like Giovanni Trapatonni and they know what they are getting it sends out a message that graft is more important than guile in the eyes of those in power in Ireland. It's not a new message, simply a reaffirmation of what we already knew. You take it to grass roots level, kids being pigeon holed into positions, the importance placed on results of kids games rather than the development of the players, the actual implementation of competitive games too young and this almost inbred attitude that if you aren't running around like a headless chicken then your not trying and you're not properly playing and that's why this country has, and will never, produce a player with the mercurial genius of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Hiring Martin O'Neil really is a step sidewards and just ushers in more of the same.

i have to agree with this.. all of it

edgecutter

We need a clear out in the FAI along with Trap or there will never be any development. It's a disgrace that the head of the FAI and possibly a few more get more money then the winner of the League of Ireland. Those clubs have helped produce some of our good performers tonight and most of them could do with the extra finance those leeches suck up.

Amirani

I don't agree with you too much on your analysis Andersonisgod, you're spot on there though.

BobbyPropane

The answer is so ****ing clear.

Drop Whelan for ANYBODY else, get Walters away from the wing and put Brady there. Put Wes in AM and then start long and have Keane and Walters on the bench.

For a change in tactics change to 4-3-3 and put pilkington up there

martingriff

swoody wrote: »

dave o leary????????



runs away fasttttttttttt

We will find you we will torture you and we will kill you

MD1990

Andersonisgod wrote: »

When the governing body of football in Ireland hire a manager like Giovanni Trapatonni and they know what they are getting it sends out a message that graft is more important than guile in the eyes of those in power in Ireland. It's not a new message, simply a reaffirmation of what we already knew. You take it to grass roots level, kids being pigeon holed into positions, the importance placed on results of kids games rather than the development of the players, the actual implementation of competitive games too young and this almost inbred attitude that if you aren't running around like a headless chicken then your not trying and you're not properly playing and that's why this country has, and will never, produce a player with the mercurial genius of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Hiring Martin O'Neil really is a step sidewards and just ushers in more of the same.

i agree
i think the GAA attitude is killing football in this country

Seaneh

Andersonisgod wrote: »

When the governing body of football in Ireland hire a manager like Giovanni Trapatonni and they know what they are getting it sends out a message that graft is more important than guile in the eyes of those in power in Ireland. It's not a new message, simply a reaffirmation of what we already knew. You take it to grass roots level, kids being pigeon holed into positions, the importance placed on results of kids games rather than the development of the players, the actual implementation of competitive games too young and this almost inbred attitude that if you aren't running around like a headless chicken then your not trying and you're not properly playing and that's why this country has, and will never, produce a player with the mercurial genius of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Hiring Martin O'Neil really is a step sidewards and just ushers in more of the same.

Not often I agree with Adersonisgod but this is spot on.

Lawrence1895

At least MoN speaks the language

Honestly, and hope it's not deemed racist, but a manager has to communicate with his players in their language, and Trap's English is worse than my Irish.

PhlegmyMoses

Andersonisgod wrote: »

When the governing body of football in Ireland hire a manager like Giovanni Trapatonni and they know what they are getting it sends out a message that graft is more important than guile in the eyes of those in power in Ireland. It's not a new message, simply a reaffirmation of what we already knew. You take it to grass roots level, kids being pigeon holed into positions, the importance placed on results of kids games rather than the development of the players, the actual implementation of competitive games too young and this almost inbred attitude that if you aren't running around like a headless chicken then your not trying and you're not properly playing and that's why this country has, and will never, produce a player with the mercurial genius of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Hiring Martin O'Neil really is a step sidewards and just ushers in more of the same.

TBF, Sweden have never produced a player that good before or since. And we produced a player like Liam Brady, up North they had George Best. Sweden aren't much better than us tactically, in fairness. To have a player like Ibrahimovic isn't testament to their training methods, it is mostly luck.

I do agree that we have an appalling attitude to football in this country. I benefited from the "big, strong and fast" dogma when playing youth football and played to a high level. At the same time, technically superior players didn't get their game over the likes of me. Everything needs to change but I can't see it happening any time soon. The FAI are seriously incompetent.

The_Kew_Tour

MD1990 wrote: »

i agree
i think the GAA attitude is killing football in this country

in what way?

just curious.

astonaidan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

When the governing body of football in Ireland hire a manager like Giovanni Trapatonni and they know what they are getting it sends out a message that graft is more important than guile in the eyes of those in power in Ireland. It's not a new message, simply a reaffirmation of what we already knew. You take it to grass roots level, kids being pigeon holed into positions, the importance placed on results of kids games rather than the development of the players, the actual implementation of competitive games too young and this almost inbred attitude that if you aren't running around like a headless chicken then your not trying and you're not properly playing and that's why this country has, and will never, produce a player with the mercurial genius of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Hiring Martin O'Neil really is a step sidewards and just ushers in more of the same.

Id actually say the reason Ireland never produce Zlatan type players is because if a young lad shows flair rather than being a stamina machine he generally doesnt get trust. Ive seen it so many times ive lost all count. Sad as it is you are more likely to get trust in rugby with flair than in soccer

swoody

sorry side note: wtf is on rte2 now?

Hulk Hands

One thing I'd take issue with is that it seemed a good move to hire Trap at the time.Hes never been over expansive in his style but has never been this negative and old fashioned, so it was hard to expect this. He should have been ousted though as soon as it was clear he wouldn't even travel to club games despite his huge salary and the personnel issues that he's made a balls of from day one

conor360

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

when was last time we were in front in qualifier and lost at home?

im thinking Austria 1995(might apply to away too)

That would be Austria 2013.:mad:

Mint Sauce

swoody wrote: »

sorry side note: wtf is on rte2 now?

Tropic thunder

Kerrydude1981

I think everyone knows we aren't exactly blessed with talent,but for as bad as we are we can play a bit at times,like we tried in the first half tonight but for some reason we reverted back to hoof ball.

Bring back the old Lansdowne Road.

Seaneh

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

TBF, Sweden have never produced a player that good before or since. And we produced a player like Liam Brady, up North they had George Best. Sweden aren't much better than us tactically, in fairness. To have a player like Ibrahimovic isn't testament to their training methods, it is mostly luck.

I do agree that we have an appalling attitude to football in this country. I benefited from the "big, strong and fast" dogma when playing youth football and played to a high level. At the same time, technically superior players didn't get their game over the likes of me. Everything needs to change but I can't see it happening any time soon. The FAI are seriously incompetent.

In Sweden, especially at clubs like Malmo, underage players are encouraged to play football, not to just be big and strong and fast. Sweden consistently produce technically proficient players from Brolin to Larsen to Kallstrom to Ibra there have always been players who could play football in Swedish the Swedish team.

aramush

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He was always going to leave after this campaign, whatever happened.

What he did for the country taking us to a first tournament in ten years shouldn't be dismissed or derided. As Strachan said on ITV's coverage last year, there are Scots who would give anything right now to get to go to a major tournament.

The knives have been out for a long time and if he goes, he goes, but I'm not going to be ungrateful to the guy. If you look back at Big Jack and Mick McCathy's decision making when they were in charge you can find plenty of fault there as well.

I am grateful for what he has done, trust me I am. But some of his selections have been baffling to say the very least and it doesn't take a man earning €1m odd a year to figure that out.

The_Kew_Tour

conor360 wrote: »

That would be Austria 2013.:mad:

we did not lose

finished 2-2.

did feel like a defeat alright.

happyoutscan

swoody wrote: »

sorry side note: wtf is on rte2 now?

Tropic Thunder. Fortunately we all need a few laughs now so timing couldn't have been better.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

when was last time we were in front in qualifier and lost at home?

im thinking Austria 1995(might apply to away too)

oh remembered Cyprus 5-2.. we went 1-0 up.

but at home im certain its Austria.

Demosthenese

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

TBF, Sweden have never produced a player that good before or since. And we produced a player like Liam Brady, up North they had George Best. Sweden aren't much better than us tactically, in fairness. To have a player like Ibrahimovic isn't testament to their training methods, it is mostly luck.

Exactly. Just look at Germany for many fine examples of how its done from grass level all the way to International. Ibrahimovic is not the type of player that most countries even have. Spain/Germany made decisions decades ago to change their strategys towards football. The English are trying to copy this now 10 years later and Ireland to be fair underage are making small movements BUT we then place a guy in the helm who doesn't trust footballers to play football.

All depends if you buy into the old mantra its a results based business ... Trap got us results and got us to a major tournament, he then stopped getting such results - now we need to kick on.

MD1990

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

in what way?

just curious.

the attitude really
its all about being physical & tough
it then crossovers into football imo

The_Kew_Tour

MD1990 wrote: »

the attitude really
its all about being physical & tough
it then crossovers into football imo

I agree a little although other problems too.

Mentally we are ****ing dire too. We are too scared at times.

We need 11 with attitudes like Roy Keane. Not afraid.

aindriu80

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Tropic thunder

I thought it is a hilarious show especially when watching a football match like tonight:D

irishfeen

Well it seems the end is nearing for Trap, whatever people say he got us to a world cup playoff where a bit of cheating helped us got knocked out and he got us to our first European Championships in some 24 years with a very very average bunch of players .... Grazie Giovanni!

Seaneh

Andersonisgod wrote: »

When the governing body of football in Ireland hire a manager like Giovanni Trapatonni and they know what they are getting it sends out a message that graft is more important than guile in the eyes of those in power in Ireland. It's not a new message, simply a reaffirmation of what we already knew. You take it to grass roots level, kids being pigeon holed into positions, the importance placed on results of kids games rather than the development of the players, the actual implementation of competitive games too young and this almost inbred attitude that if you aren't running around like a headless chicken then your not trying and you're not properly playing and that's why this country has, and will never, produce a player with the mercurial genius of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Hiring Martin O'Neil really is a step sidewards and just ushers in more of the same.

Just to add to that, I posted the following here 2 and a half years ago and I think Andersonisgod is saying pretty much the same thing now. Anyone with half a brain can see that it's the truth.

Seaneh wrote: »

the entire youth coaching system in Ireland is archaic.

Most of the better nations in europe have abandoned traditional football before the age of 12 and the kids play Futsol instead as it's much better for developing ball control, passing and movement.

Also, kids don't play on full sized 11-a-side pitches until U15 so they don't develop a tendency to lump it long and having a big Centre Forward isn't much of an advantage. Meaning players have to rely on footballing ability.

In Ireland and the UK we start them on full sized pitches way too early and even before that managers concentrate on winning games (usually playing stoke-like football) rather than actually developing the players.
The manager of the local U11's team cares more that he's won the league for the last 9 years than he does for developing talent in his players, so he just makes them play a system that will win games rather than teach them the game.


The end result is that every level of our game is totally reliant on physique over technique and we produce athletes and not footballers.

This is the reason England tend to do **** in international, they can't play the game at a basic level the same way the other top nations can. They don't know how to hold the ball and create space, they have to resort to kick and rush football 90% of the time.

ThunbergsAreGo

We just dont have the players, McCarthy was about the same as Whelan, Wilson was atrocious.

I look forward to the next manager if only so we dont end up repeating this thread ad nauseum for ever

simongurnick

irishfeen wrote: »

Well it seems the end is nearing for Trap, whatever people say he got us to a world cup playoff where a bit of cheating helped us got knocked out and he got us to our first European Championships in some 24 years with a very very average bunch of players .... Grazie Giovanni!

Probably true. He's done well with a limited bunch of players but at this point he has ran out of ideas (Cox coming on for example).

I'm fairly devastated really. I thought we dominated up until their first goal, but then we just had no ideas. Hopeless crosses and long balls.
The saddest thing is once Robbie retires we have NO ONE to score. Keane's goal was a true testament to his commitment and instincts. Long tried his best but in reality was terrible. If he had simply kept his head up and fed Keane at the end we would have had a draw and would still be in with a shout.

Corholio

naughtb4 wrote: »

We just dont have the players, McCarthy was about the same as Whelan, Wilson was atrocious.

I look forward to the next manager if only so we dont end up repeating this thread ad nauseum for ever

McCarthy will go on to be a really good player, and miles better than Whelan. Although both must have sore necks watching the ball go over their heads tonight.

PhlegmyMoses

Seaneh wrote: »

In Sweden, especially at clubs like Malmo, underage players are encouraged to play football, not to just be big and strong and fast. Sweden consistently produce technically proficient players from Brolin to Larsen to Kallstrom to Ibra there have always been players who could play football in Swedish the Swedish team.

Damien Duff, Roy Keane, Robbie Keane, Liam Brady, John Giles, Paul McGrath etc were all technically proficient players. It happens. If Swedish clubs are doing as you say, it is coming through in their national team about as much as it comes through for us.

The_Kew_Tour

and people think we will stroll into Euro 2016 with it been 24 teams.

Think again.

PhlegmyMoses

Demosthenese wrote: »

Exactly. Just look at Germany for many fine examples of how its done from grass level all the way to International. Ibrahimovic is not the type of player that most countries even have. Spain/Germany made decisions decades ago to change their strategys towards football. The English are trying to copy this now 10 years later and Ireland to be fair underage are making small movements BUT we then place a guy in the helm who doesn't trust footballers to play football.

All depends if you buy into the old mantra its a results based business ... Trap got us results and got us to a major tournament, he then stopped getting such results - now we need to kick on.

Part of our problem is that we entrust our best players to the English teams to continue their development after the age of about 15. There is no cohesion between our national league and the FAI. It's mad that the best youth sides in this country are not the sides playing in our own top division. As a result, we're subject to whatever way the English are doing things and whatever players they manage to churn out for us.

roanoke

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and people think we will stroll into Euro 2016 with it been 24 teams.

Think again.

Coincidentally we're currently #24 for UEFA on the Fifa rankings (and rapidily unraveling as a squad). I agree that we're definitely going to make very hard work (as usual) of qualifying for France.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and people think we will stroll into Euro 2016 with it been 24 teams.

Think again.

Who thinks that? Sounds like a strawman argument.

Personally, would say 50:50 chance at best, although it does depend on the draw of course

irishfeen

simongurnick wrote: »

Probably true. He's done well with a limited bunch of players but at this point he has ran out of ideas (Cox coming on for example).

I'm fairly devastated really. I thought we dominated up until their first goal, but then we just had no ideas. Hopeless crosses and long balls.
The saddest thing is once Robbie retires we have NO ONE to score. Keane's goal was a true testament to his commitment and instincts. Long tried his best but in reality was terrible. If he had simply kept his head up and fed Keane at the end we would have had a draw and would still be in with a shout.

I honestly think the relative success Trap has had during his tenure will only sink in when we get our next manager in and we return to the bad old days... I hope i'm wrong but even tonight Sweden will be ecstatic with the 3 points - under Trap teams did not like playing us, not one bit.