Rep. of Ireland v Sweden - WCQ - K/O 7.45Pm

Deliverance XXV

simongurnick wrote: »

The part in bold is one of the craziest things I have ever heard in my life.

NiallSparky wrote: »

Haha, I missed that when I first read it. Come on man, you can't have memories that short surely?

Don't get me wrong, it was a really bad time for Irish football then too but the FAI had the balls to sort it out early. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. We had some fairly big losses since the Euros that would have probably resulted in any past managers been gotten rid of, but it almost seems like the current FAI senior management are trying to save face/themselves.

Wacker The Attacker

Corholio wrote: »

Knew it wouldn't be long until a post like this.

I truly and honestly believe the team, as a collective unit, can play better than they have been doing. Noone is saying they're world beaters, but to say the teams shortcomings wasn't the managers fault is nonsense, of course we haven't a team full of world class players but they're not shockingly bad either, and more could have been got out of them given the right tactics and some goddamn faith in at least attempting to play football.

The Pro Trap brigade will be just as bad with complaining when the new manager comes round, no doubt the first loss will bring about 'it wouldn't have happened under Trap' spiel.

"the right tactics" and "goddamn faith in at least attempting to play football" dont produce competitive international outfits.

" the right tactics" need the right players to execute them. We have a set of players that are average level internationals. It should be clear to anyone that this squad is a mediocre set of players that cannot be expected to compete with top class international outfits. Neither should they be expected to.

Strongbow10

klose wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are rubbish, we could make a compatent midfield 3 of gibson/mccarthy/hoolahan. Have a very good full back in coleman, have 2 decent forwards in long and walters. 2 decent wide men again in mclean and brady. Weve a centre half issue though which will keep on haunting us till its fixed which could be a while. Oh and an out and out striker when robbie calls it a day


Basically, weve a decent enough squad that could do better imo especially v the likes of austria and sweden. We are inept of punching above our weight for seemingly ever

You cannot,CANNOT play 2 up front (one of them being Keane).

Modern day football at the very least you need one player who can hold the ball up and another who can drop deeper and work as a play maker forward.

We are carrying passengers playing too up front. Robbie plays off the shoulder and despite views to the contrary of some others, he is not intelligent enough to drop deep when in possession to pick passes, or to make up a 5th man in midfield without possession.

More often that not you have balls played into our 2 forwards and possession comes straight back. If you are going to lose it up top then let it be one player losing it, and have that other forward behind the ball. Otherwise one of your strikers is a passenger. The days of having 2 strikers looking for balls over the top, of playing on the last shoulder is gone.

You can afford one Pippo Inzaghi but only if theres a striker beside him offering more.

Banjaxed82

eagle eye wrote: »

We don't have the players to compete at the top end of international level. It really doesn't matter all that much who the manager is. Trap is an excellent manager who has tried his best and I respect him a lot but we are out and its time for him to move on.

I don't expect to see us qualify for a finals tournament anytime soon so no reason to pay exorbitant wages to a coach.

Next time out, the top 2 teams qualify for the Euros and 3rd place place goes into a playoff. I like those odds :cool:

ollaetta

G.K. wrote: »

And there was Martin Olsson playing for Sweden too.

4 Norwich players there, Elmander has just joined them as well.

Wacker The Attacker

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Next time out, the top 2 teams qualify for the Euros and 3rd place place goes into a playoff. I like those odds :cool:

That means almost half the continent qualifies. Not exactly an achievement

Banjaxed82

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

That means almost half the continent qualifies. Not exactly an achievement

Who said it was?

Beating Estonia wasn't an achievement, but we'll take it.

simongurnick

Deliverance XXV wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, it was a really bad time for Irish football then too but the FAI had the balls to sort it out early. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. We had some fairly big losses since the Euros that would have probably resulted in any past managers been gotten rid of, but it almost seems like the current FAI senior management are trying to save face/themselves.

We reached a play off and qualified with Trap. The writing was on the wall from day one with Staunton, especially when the idea of Bobby Robson backing him didn't work out.

Strongbow10

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

"the right tactics" and "goddamn faith in at least attempting to play football" dont produce competitive international outfits.

" the right tactics" need the right players to execute them. We have a set of players that are average level internationals. It should be clear to anyone that this squad is a mediocre set of players that cannot be expected to compete with top class international outfits. Neither should they be expected to.

too many people listen to the RTE analysis and believe what they hear i.e "let the handbrake off and let the lads play football".

We would get mullered trying to play football againstl better sides at international level.

The problem with Trap is that his negative tactics are not even fit for purpose. If you want to play a defensive game then make sure you are watertight at the back and compact in midfield.

Don't play an immobile central midfielder (Whelan) who cannot run, tackle or pass and ask him to be the mainstay of the midfield tasked with breaking up play.

Do not play 2 strikers who cannot hold the ball up, nor possess the intelligence to drop deep when required offensively or defensively.

As has been said before, we are not even effective at being negative if that makes sense. With a side like Ireland, the system should never be king. If it is then you make sure the pieces fit.

Wacker The Attacker

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Who said it was?

Beating Estonia wasn't an achievement, but we'll take it.

I'd take beating estonia in a play off after tonight

Deliverance XXV

I have slated Zlatan for a long time now and he has serious lazy tendencies but holy f**k, when he has the ball at his feet he has an amazing touch. It was great seeing him and Dunne battling for the whole match.

eagle eye

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

If I were Mick McCarthy I would tell the F.A.I where to stick their Job. He was treated appallingly by press and fans alike over the Roy Keane episode.

After going through an entire world cup campaign unbeaten, to get sacked after two qualifiers at the behest of the Roy keane brigade was a travesty

I reallly like Mick McCarthy but he handled that situation badly. A great manager would have been able to keep Ireland's best player at the World Cup. He failed to do that. I'm not backing Roy Keane here just pointing out a weakness in Mick McCarthy as a manager at that time.

Corholio

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

"the right tactics" and "goddamn faith in at least attempting to play football" dont produce competitive international outfits.

" the right tactics" need the right players to execute them. We have a set of players that are average level internationals. It should be clear to anyone that this squad is a mediocre set of players that cannot be expected to compete with top class international outfits. Neither should they be expected to.

Nothing is guaranteed in football. I'm not saying doing it would definitely produce a great end result, but Trap never, ever tried to change even when matches weren't going our way. Sweden aren't a top class international outfit, yet tonight we gave them caverns of space to play into. We should always be expected to at least compete, certainly at home. Trap never gave the players the chance to do that. Sometimes just doing something that seems encouraging can change an outlook and even the way a team plays to claw back a game, Trap has never done that, ever.

Europe is littered with average International teams, Austria and Sweden among them. Should have beaten Sweden away and threw it away against Austria at home. The 'we only have mediocre players' line doesn't matter when we should have got results like that.

kona

Nothing worse than not giving it 100% , very disappointed with that ****.

Few good performances, however were as good at penetrating defenses as a 70 year old pisshead

Wacker The Attacker

eagle eye wrote: »

I reallly like Mick McCarthy but he handled that situation badly. A great manager would have been able to keep Ireland's best player at the World Cup. He failed to do that. I'm not backing Roy Keane here just pointing out a weakness in Mick McCarthy as a manager at that time.

Do you mean a great manager or a yes man. A great player wouldnt have walked out.

sheao

It was a shame to see us lose that game tonight as I felt if we got it right Sweden were there for the taking.


Think it is time for a new manager to bring new ideas to the international side. It looks like we weren't good enough to get the playoff spot in this particular group, with the sides in it is only an average group other than the Germans.

Think its time for change and I feel Trap has to leave.

764dak

wonderfullife wrote: »

I agree with everyone else that a new manager is necessary.

But i'm not having this rose-tinted glasses bullsh1t about Trap setting us back 20 years to the Charlton days of hoofball.

I also have to wonder how old some of you are who claim this. Because you're either the wrong side of 20 (younger) or have very myopic memories.

Let's take a look at the 2002 World Cup. We had a squad arguably twice as strong as the current squad. The likes of Roy Keane, Given, Robbie, Duffer in their primes.

Now lets take a look at the goals we scored.

Match 1: Matt Holland v Cameroon: Given hoofed it 60 metres wide left. Kilbane then aimlessly hoofed it towards the penalty box. It was a shoddy clearance allowing Mattie to step on to it and fire in from 25 yards.

Match 2: Robbie v Germany: Stevie Finnan hoofed it 70 metres, Quinny flicked it on, Robbie beat Khan at the near post.

Match 3: v Saudi: Robbies goal: Hoofed diagonally to Kelly, he squared it, Robbie finished it.

Breens goal: Staunton free kick, Breen gets in no marking. Goal.

Duffers goal: Slide rule pass, weak shot, keeper fumbled it.

Match 4: Keane v Spain: penalty after another setpiece hoof into Quinn and god only knows what Hierro was thinking trying to swap shirts.


We scored 6 goals in the 2002 World Cup. 3 came directly from hoof balls. 2 came from free kicks (including the penno decision that resulted). 1 came from "passing it" and even at that it was a shot most of our Grannys would have saved.

So let's put this into perspective. Trap has NOT set us back 20 years. Far from it. We've played the same muck style of football for a few decades now. Anybody pinning this solely on Trap and his "system" and "mentality" clearly doesn't watch us play.

For sure, we had teams over the years more than capable of passing the ball. Even this current generation away to France did it. The Kerr teams, the McCarthy ones. they all were able to pass it. But on the whole we've always been far too reliant on "hoofing it".

I'm all for fair criticism of the manager, for the style of play and for the lack of results. But saying he's set us back 20 years implies we ever moved on from the Charlton days. Truth is we never did. In patches, sure, but from Hughton to Phelan to Kelly to Harte to Finnan to Kilbane to Wilson ......every full back we've had over the past 25 years has relied heavily on the hoofball diagonal.

If i can blame Trap for anything it's for not fixing that. He certainly didn't create this.

"At the 1994 FIFA World Cup, for example, the winning Brazil team scored the most goals from three or fewer passes, while the team to score from a move involving the most passes – the Republic of Ireland – were eliminated in the second round."

Wacker The Attacker

Corholio wrote: »

Nothing is guaranteed in football. I'm not saying doing it would definitely produce a great end result, but Trap never, ever tried to change even when matches weren't going our way. Sweden aren't a top class international outfit, yet tonight we gave them caverns of space to play into. We should always be expected to at least compete, certainly at home. Trap never gave the players the chance to do that. Sometimes just doing something that seems encouraging can change an outlook and even the way a team plays to claw back a game, Trap has never done that, ever.

Europe is littered with average International teams, Austria and Sweden among them. Should have beaten Sweden away and threw it away against Austria at home. The 'we only have mediocre players' line doesn't matter when we should have got results like that.

You said it. That includes tonights result

Wacker The Attacker

sheao wrote: »

It was a shame to see us lose that game tonight as I felt if we got it right Sweden were there for the taking.


Think it is time for a new manager to bring new ideas to the international side. It looks like we weren't good enough to get the playoff spot in this particular group, with the sides in it is only an average group other than the Germans.

Think its time for change and I feel Trap has to leave.

Every Team is there for the taking ifyou get it right.

Teams dont always get it right.

I'm sure the swedish manager said exactky the same thing about us.

He was always going to leave after this campaign anyhow.

wonderfullife

Corholio wrote: »

Nothing is guaranteed in football. I'm not saying doing it would definitely produce a great end result, but Trap never, ever tried to change even when matches weren't going our way. Sweden aren't a top class international outfit, yet tonight we gave them caverns of space to play into. We should always be expected to at least compete, certainly at home. Trap never gave the players the chance to do that. Sometimes just doing something that seems encouraging can change an outlook and even the way a team plays to claw back a game, Trap has never done that, ever.

Europe is littered with average International teams, Austria and Sweden among them. Should have beaten Sweden away and threw it away against Austria at home. The 'we only have mediocre players' line doesn't matter when we should have got results like that.

But your point is contradictory to an extent.

On the one hand you're saying Trap needed to try different tactics.

On the other hand you're saying the tactics he DID employ should have got us 6 points away to sweden and at home to austria.

We all know on the evidence of those 2 games we could easily have got 6 points even with the tactics Trap executed.

I sincerely doubt we could have taken 6 points from those 2 games playing them at their own game. If we go toe-to-toe with Sweden in a technical passing game for 90 mins we get walloped.

And that's what we need to try accept as fans. If we want to try play that way, we're in for 2/3/4 years (like Wales) of getting spanked and outplayed by teams both above and below our ranking who are technically superior.

Sweden and Austria were only there for the taking as our caveman, archaic tactics were very effective against them and with better finishing (and defending) we'd have won both games.

I'm not buying any argument which says we would have won both games playing the style most of us advocate. Absolutely not.

roanoke

764dak wrote: »

"At the 1994 FIFA World Cup, for example, the winning Brazil team scored the most goals from three or fewer passes, while the team to score from a move involving the most passes – the Republic of Ireland – were eliminated in the second round."

Yeah it's also ironic that Charlton's Ireland team are remembered now by many as nothing more than a hoofball team. Contrary to that belief though by 1994 that Ireland team could really play (as well as switch it on and off whenever it suited them).

They also scored in 94 what I consider to be probably the best footballing goal any Ireland team ever managed (the aforementioned 'most passes goal').

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvwC0vsJcjI

RoryMac

Trap's time is up and he probably should have gone after the Euros but tonight was more about the players letting us down. Too many poor performances and they switched off as soon as we took the lead. There's a real lack of leadership on the pitch and that's not something that can be coached.

Poor substitutions from Trap but the real issue imo is the lack of character of the players. Experienced players like O'Shea, Whelan & Keane simply don't inspire the rest of the team.

Perhaps a new manager can motivate them better but we'll always struggle with these players when under pressure.

wonderfullife

roanoke wrote: »

Yeah it's also ironic that Charlton's Ireland team are rememebered now by many as nothing more than a hoofball team. Contrary to that belief though by 1994 that Ireland team could really play (as well as switch it on and off whenever it suited them).

They also scored in 94 what I consider to be the best footballing goal any Ireland team ever managed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvwC0vsJcjI

True but we come back to personnel.

Listen to the commentary even! "Keane to Townsend to McGrath to Aldridge to Sheridan to McAteer".......2 of those names were unbelievable footballers. Sheridan was a fantastic passer, Aldridge held the ball up great. The other 2 were, at the time, excellent. Townsend was a very under-rated footballer and McAteer was the most sought after midfielder in England that year.

Todays commentary went something like "Whelan to Wilson to O' Shea to (insert hoofball target)"

Clearly the difference is the players. Where you have Roy and Andy linking, passing it to a superb passer in McGrath, we have Whelan linking with Wilson and O' Shea hoofing it in a general direction.

O' Shea can't pick a McGrath-esque pass nor can he do what McGrath did in that goal - carry the ball from defence over the half-way line, get his head up and pick out a man on the deck.

The other misconception we have at stake here is this whole "hoofball" stuff. There's absolutely nothing wrong with varying the style of play to include diagonals. It worked for Italy countless times against England last year. Long ball diagonals in behind them.

Our problem is we don't play the long diagonal, we play areas. Hoof it forward and hope for the best. If we actually employed the long ball effectively it wouldn't be so bad to vary the play.

Corholio

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

You said it. That includes tonights result

Of course. But the means of going about it is something that can be analysed.

simongurnick

Paully D wrote: »

Spot on. That really is the type of appointment that should be brought in next. If the price is right, he would join. He made €1.8m a year with Holland, Trapattoni originally came in on €1.7m and then dropped to €1.5m with his new deal.

However, we all know the FAI will go for the cheap option.

Maybe not. The new Landsdowne cost a fortune so it may make sense to invest in a high profile manager, although not sure if Denis O'Brien will keep spending his pocket change on this.

SuperInfinity

At this stage I think reviewing international manager performance is a bit of a cod really. An international manager doesn't have anything like the same time with the players, he doesn't have the ability to buy and sell players or train them week in week out. Many of the players just don't bond as well internationally. It's hard enough to appraise managers in clubs that are very similar never mind international ones. Whether an international team succeeds or fails probably has almost nothing to do with a manager as long as the manager is reasonably competent (ie. not Staunton).

Anyway... maybe Ireland still have a chance.... *runs*

kevthegaff

Long term team lads
Westwood
Coleman O shea Clarke Wilson
Mcarthy Gibson
Brady/Hoolihan
McGeady McClean/Brady
Long

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

plenty of people in the past...i have had discussions on this with other posters here.

think there was a Euro 201 thread think that was one place.

Fair enough, personally it would never have crossed my mind in a million years that we were a shoe-in for the next Euro's

Jarrod

My gf is from the States and I took her to her first Ireland game last night (I know, I know, I'm too good to her). She has absolutely no experience of 'soccer'.

After 65 minutes she turned to me and said, ''They don't seem to have any plan, it's like they get the ball and think 'Oh, what do I do now?' And then they just kick it as far away as possible''

This gave me a laugh on an other wise depressing night.

ctrl-alt-delete

We don't have the players to compete against the best teams in the world no, we do however have a decent pool of players.

That team last night did not play to their potential and for me it is because of the system and the lack of belief that they can compete by playing any other way. Some fans don't think they can play any other way but the crucial thing is the manager doesn't think that they can.

Nobody is saying that they can play like Spain or Brazil, or that we should play some sort of free flowing attacking football, we can't.

I would rather someone came in and set us up playing to our strengths and not playing a system based on our weaknesses.

alchemist33

Jarrod wrote: »

My gf is from the States and I took her to her first Ireland game last night (I know, I know, I'm too good to her). She has absolutely no experience of 'soccer'.

After 65 minutes she turned to me and said, ''They don't seem to have any plan, it's like they get the ball and think 'Oh, what do I do now?' And then they just kick it as far away as possible''

This gave me a laugh on an other wise depressing night.

She's a keeper!

Iused2likebusts

alchemist33 wrote: »

She's a keeper!

May have done a better job than forde with the 2nd goal:)

listermint

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

May have done a better job than forde with the 2nd goal:)

Yeah I have to say was pretty disappointed with that effort watched it back like twice and it looked as if he just bent back and let it in. (i know it was at speed) but christ a decent keeper would have snapped at that.

ThunbergsAreGo

NIMAN wrote: »

Wes is 31 you know.

And has i think played only 33% of the minutes available to him this years.

Seems like its one rule for some players and another for our hyped up players. Wilson was appalling today, so many random hoofs (and i generally like him). Likewise McCarthy was an anonymous as Whelan tonight neither were good enough but who else do we have?

Amirani

SuperInfinity wrote: »

At this stage I think reviewing international manager performance is a bit of a cod really. An international manager doesn't have anything like the same time with the players, he doesn't have the ability to buy and sell players or train them week in week out. Many of the players just don't bond as well internationally. It's hard enough to appraise managers in clubs that are very similar never mind international ones. Whether an international team succeeds or fails probably has almost nothing to do with a manager as long as the manager is reasonably competent (ie. not Staunton).

Your point is fair too an extent. International managers are certainly limited in what they can do tactically. You can't really have advanced set piece plays or intricate passing movements where players are all on the same wavelength (Spain can do this because their team is pretty much all Barca/Madrid based anyway). However, you can have something approaching a solid philosophy about how you're going to play. This will be somewhat related to the formation you line up in and the players you put on the pitch.

If you replace Whelan last night with Gibson for example, what happens? Ireland instantly become a better passing side and are better at holding possession. If you replace Keane/Long with Brady/Hoolihan, Ireland become much less reliant on the long-ball game with their being more passing options for the back 4. Ireland also become better able to apply pressure in the gap between the midfield and defence, where Ekdal and Svensson were dropping to pick up the ball.

This tactical shifts aren't guaranteed to work, but some of them are worth trying at times rather than sticking with the rigidity of Trap 4-4-2. In praise of Trap, we've been quite solid for the most part, and a difficult team to break down. Despite being an international manager, he's been able to set up this sort of defensive system.

There is score for international managers to change the way a team plays. Not radically, but fairly significantly.

Dante

I find it staggering at how poor our set up is. Sure we might have a mediocre set of players but if I did what the majority of players did for the 90 minutes last night on a Sunday morning I'd get an absolute bollocking. Fullbacks receiving the ball off the keeper and consistently hoofing it as far as they can without even lifting their heads to see whats ahead of them, centre midfielders, rather than dropping deep to pick up the ball from said fullbacks and trying to do something even remotely creative, somehow seem to disappear into a black hole in the middle of the park only to occasionally reappear for the odd desperation tackle, and strikers who barely pose even the slightest threat for the whole duration of the game (although in fairness, the service to them was genuinely pathetic).

You'd really have to wonder what Trap actually works on with the team on the training ground because for me that showing is not acceptable at any decent level, let alone in a squad of professionals. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that we should go out trying to play like Brazil or anything because we clearly don't have the players, but surely we can expect a system better than what we currently have. I think Strongbow10 hit the nail on the head in his previous post in saying that we are not even effective at being negative and that Traps negative tactics are not fit for purpose.

EDIT: I basically seem to be summing up what Jarrod's GF said in one sentence :pac:

SantryRed

Seriously, Glenn ****ing Whelan. What possessed him to chase Svenson? It was blatantly ****ing obvious he was running offside.

We were never gonna score in the 2nd half. Even in the first half, our goal came from a Swedish mistake. Same thing as all Ireland games, start like a house on fire for 15/20 minutes, then the extra man in midfield comes into play for the opposition, they begin to control the game, and we struggle to do anything for the following 70. Happens every time.

Cork boy 55

Nadia Forde is pretty

roanoke

SantryRed wrote: »

Same thing as all Ireland games, start like a house on fire for 15/20 minutes, then the extra man in midfield comes into play for the opposition, they begin to control the game, and we struggle to do anything for the following 70. Happens every time.

Yep it's the same old story. We go hell for leather from kick off and more often than not it actually pays off with a goal. Then we fall back but persist with what I could only describe as a insane level of pressing and harrying. As a result can see that by about 70 minutes the team is completely shattered and can't even keep their shape anymore.

We're not blessed with a great selection of players and we're certainly not good enough to play a decent open game against the better teams, but the way we play under Trap actually seems suicidal. You can get away with it against the likes of Faroe Islands, but any half-decent team will exploit what we're doing.

Ferris_Bueller

Words can't begin to summarize the disappointment, but I doubt any of us are too surprised. Last night was one of the worst nights I've had following Ireland. I thought it the first 30 minutes we were playing okay, if not outstanding, but around this time it seemed like we had a change of plan - instead of attempting to keep possession and play the ball around the pitch, we started looking out of ideas after making one or two passes, playing it back to Forde, and then lining up for the long ball up the pitch. To be fair, it sort of worked for a while, but as soon as the Swedes took the lead we were playing right into their hands, we had absolute no other plan.

I think the criticism of Trap is a bit over the top from some, no need to call him some of the things that are being said. Both he and the players are to blame, tactics were poor (as they have been for a long time) and the players did not perform whatsoever. It was very disappointing that we went back to our old ways last night after experimenting with a new style lately, even the Swedish coach said in an interview that he was surprised Ireland played so many long balls last night, as they have been passing it a lot more recently. Playing players like Cox and Walters on the wing makes no sense to me, I do not see what they offer out there that a player like Brady, Pilkington or even Hoolahan don't. On the brightside, I think we can safely say Trap will be gone by christmas, and we can then start the hunt for the new man to bring this bunch of players forward and hopefully qualify for EURO2016.

Now onto the players, the real disappointment for me last night. The players were simply not good enough. They seemed to have no fight, no character, no leadership, they all looked afraid out on that pitch. When we went 2-1 down, there wasn't a single player out there who stood up to the plate to try and grab the game by the scruff of the neck, that was hard to take watching from the stands, almost every Irish team I can remember has had that fight in them, but last night it was not there. I felt like players like O'Shea, Keane and Dunne were still our best players out there despite being on their last legs, what happens when they are all gone? McCarthy, for all the hype, was very average, let the game pass him by and never even remotely stamped any authority on the game. Shane Long was shocking out there, he seems to have zero confidence, on a few occasions he cut inside instead of squaring it or having an attempt on goal and the Swedes dealt with him very easily. He did win a lot of aerial ball, something he is very good at despite his height, but this guy is meant to be our best forward and he probably wouldn't have scored last night even if the match went on for another 3 hours, decent player he may be, but a goalscorer he certainly is not. James McClean was infuriating as ever, not a fan of his by any stretch of the imagination, but would have started him last night due to McGeadys injury. His directness worked briefly in the first half, but once Lustig had him sussed out that was McCleans night over, even when we switched him to the other wing he had no effect on the game, you could see how annoyed Coleman was getting by the lack of support McClean was offering him and he was quickly switched back to the left where he looked slightly less clueless.

We need players to start growing up. The likes of McCarthy, Long, Coleman (who played pretty well), Wilson have to realise that they are the main body of this Irish set up now - time to start acting like it, they are not the new kids on the block anymore.

We can sit and discuss new tactics/formations/players all day, but I think the players need to up it a level if we are to qualify for anything in the next few years. On paper they should be good enough, but I have reservations about their mentality at the minute.

On a side note - Ibrahimovic was different class, my first time seeing him play in the flesh and was always a player I found frustrating despite his obvious talent, but he was a joy to watch last night. A real world class player. All the best to the Swedes now, their fans seemed like a good bunch and a large number travelled over.

ambid

NIMAN wrote: »

Wes is 31 you know.

Hoolahan could comfortably play until he's 35 or 36. His game is based on intelligence and touch rather than pace and power so there is no reason to think he will decline just because he's now over 30. He could be a central figure in the Euro 2016 qualification campaign at least, and possibly the World Cup 2018 qualification too.

kupus

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Nadia Forde is pretty

Dont even go there, she managed to quieten a whole stadium that was set to give a resounding rendition of a great anthem.....
I dont know who she is, but id say her connections to get that gig must be good, is she a friend of deleany or what... Why else would a nobody get to sing

BraziliaNZ

roanoke wrote: »

Yeah it's also ironic that Charlton's Ireland team are remembered now by many as nothing more than a hoofball team. Contrary to that belief though by 1994 that Ireland team could really play (as well as switch it on and off whenever it suited them).

They also scored in 94 what I consider to be probably the best footballing goal any Ireland team ever managed (the aforementioned 'most passes goal').

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvwC0vsJcjI

Bloody hell, we look world class there, playing against Mexico who would probably wipe the floor with us now. That's made me really depressed, I was only 13 at the time and didn't get to appreciate it properly. Can you imagine ever watching an Ireland team passing the ball around like that now? McGrath, Aldridge, Townsend, commanding players, men's men, this current team is like a bunch of choir boys compared to them and far less talented.

fsfg

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Now onto the players, the real disappointment for me last night. The players were simply not good enough. They seemed to have no fight, no character, no leadership, they all looked afraid out on that pitch. When we went 2-1 down, there wasn't a single player out there who stood up to the plate to try and grab the game by the scruff of the neck, that was hard to take watching from the stand nor.

Good post apart from the above. I was at the game also and Glen Whelan was trying to do this. He was showing for the ball and not receiving it. He had a go at OSHA and dunne about it but they kept doing the same thing. Wilson was a disgraceIMO, both defensively and going forward. He is a decent player so I can forgive it but he should have been taken off.

Idbatterim

In relation to the next manager, the biggest mistake the FAI can do is get someone on the "cheap" what is a few hundred thousand extra per year, when one manager, might have us competing for qualification, maybe the odd play off and tournament qualification v qualification hopes out the window after a few games?!!! When you think of the extra ticket sales, merchandise, tv rights etc...

also from the below! Robbie Keane is the 2nd top European scorer in history!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_international_association_football_goal_scorers_by_country

He could probably top the list IF he stays on for another campaign...

RikkFlair

The record of not beating a team ranked either above us, or a genuine group rival in a qualifying campaign since 2001 is pretty damning really, even Wales Scotland and N.Ireland have claimed some big scalps over the years.

ThunbergsAreGo

fsfg wrote: »

Good post apart from the above. I was at the game also and Glen Whelan was trying to do this. He was showing for the ball and not receiving it. He had a go at OSHA and dunne about it but they kept doing the same thing. Wilson was a disgraceIMO, both defensively and going forward. He is a decent player so I can forgive it but he should have been taken off.

Number of times Whelan (and McCarthy to a lesser extent) showed to Wilson and were ignored.

Dunnes first touch seemed to be to get into the best position to pass it back to Forde

roanoke

Idbatterim wrote: »

Robbie Keane is the 2nd top European scorer in history!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_international_association_football_goal_scorers_by_country

He could probably top the list IF he stays on for another campaign...

He's actually 5th all time in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_with_50_or_more_international_goals

Regardless though, Keanes goalscoring record is honestly phenomenal. Puskas and Kocsis played for arguably the best team in the world in an era when goal averages were much higher. Similarly Muller and Klose had the benefit of playing for German sides who regularly rattled up high-scoring wins in games.

By comparison Keane has been doing it for a mediocre international team that struggles for goals at the best of times. To put it in perspective, Keane will probably/possibly have tripled the previous Irish goalscoring record by the time he retires.

Idbatterim

He's actually 5th all time in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...national_goals

Regardless though, Keanes goalscoring record is honestly phenomenal. Puskas and Kocsis played for arguably the best team in the world in an era when goal averages were much higher. Similarly Muller and Klose had the benefit of playing for German sides who regularly rattled up high-scoring wins in games.

By comparison Keane has been doing it for a mediocre international team that struggles for goals at the best of times. To put it in perspective, Keane will probably/possibly have tripled the previous Irish goalscoring record by the time he retires.

yeah sorry my bad! He is the 2nd top European scorer in modern times though... Also relatively his achievement might be greater than any of the others, given that Germany etc would qualify for every tournament etc...

Backstreet Moyes

People can be overly critical of Trap. But you cannot ignore how stubborn he is with his players and tactics.

Brady is a young player who is doing well of late. He offers a serious threat from set pieces and was our best winger in the squad last night. How he did not come on is beyond me. It's just disgraceful Walters should be nowhere near the wing and then when we need something to happen we bring on a Championship striker on the wing. While two Premiership proper wingers are sitting on the bench. It makes no sense at all.

I don't think anybody is saying this team is as good as the teams of past but it is not as poor as people use to defend Trap. Their is no stand out individual but their is a squad available with a host of Premier league players. The problem is it seems that seems to be a negative for Trap. Trap just won't use the players at his disposal. I really worry when Keane goes because for all Long's workrate he doesn't have the ability to fill Keane's shoes. I know he alienated Gibson and i don't blame Gibson but why is Joey O Brien not in the squad ever?

Forde

Coleman Dunne O Brien Wilson

McCarthy Whelan Gibson

McGeady/Pilkington Brady

Keane