Pro12: Munster vs Edinburgh, Sat 7 Sep 7:15pm; TG4/BBCALBA

Podge_irl · 08-09-2013 4:42pm

I'd be more inclined to play it down because Edinburgh are ****e.

Some of the skills and play Munster displayed had nothing to do with the opposition though. It was an encouraging performance no matter who they were playing.

phog · 08-09-2013 4:44pm

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Something that annoyed me a little today is that some newspaper reports, & the sky website trying to downplay the win as we played an understrength Embra side.
More than a little unfair imo. It's not like we were anywhere near a full strength side either.

Haven't read any of the match reports but the injury list issued by Edinburgh when they named their team would put any squad under pressure, added to that Solomons has just taken over there and has just got his defence coach in place. The win was expected so no great plaudits then for getting the win.

Tox56 · 08-09-2013 4:52pm

The quality of Munster's play was impressive but an 11 point win for Munster over Edinburgh at home I think is what most expected

phog · 08-09-2013 4:57pm

Tox56 wrote: »

The quality of Munster's play was impressive but an 11 point win for Munster over Edinburgh at home I think is what most expected

Before the game I'd have taken an 11point win, watching what I saw in the first half I really expected a bigger score for Munster and a greater lead.

Swiwi. · 08-09-2013 4:59pm

You can only play what's in front of you, and Munster had a very good first half. Went off the boil a bit in the second, but it was a promising first up game. Put it this way, I'd rather be Munster or Leinster than Ulster after the weekend's opening games.

danthefan · 08-09-2013 5:06pm

How did JJ do overall when he came on? I know he scored but thought Keatley did very well generally in the first half.

thomond2006 · 08-09-2013 5:08pm

I was happy enough, rather than delighted or ecstatic. I didn't really expect more from the first match of the season.

Swiwi. · 08-09-2013 5:08pm

danthefan wrote: »

How did JJ do overall when he came on? I know he scored but thought Keatley did very well generally in the first half.

He was solid. Didn't get that much time to shine. Keatley was the better of the two, but Munster as a team played better in the first half which would have helped him.

who_me · 08-09-2013 5:18pm

Yeah, we'll play far tougher sides as the season goes on (though the start of the Pro12 fixtures is relatively easy this year), but you have to be impressed with the pace & cohesion of the Munster game. I'd love to compare with early season games in previous years, where the play was godawful & sloppy.

It's great seeing how JJ & Keatley are so interchangable, each time JJ comes on the gameplan doesn't change and the tries keep coming. More surprisingly, Williams & Sheridan. Williams had a great game to be fair, he's a great pass and was popping up everywhere. His usual flaws of throwing a couple of passes to no-one (didn't happen) or occasionally taking an age to get to the ruck - only happened once that I saw. Hurley's & Laulala's distribution was great; as were some of the forwards (Sherry is always a great offloader). We always seem to go through an offloading 'phase' early in the season, which disappears as soon as we face any of the tougher sides, but it did seem sharper and more natural this game. Interesting to hear Keatley say they'd concentrated more on skills this preseason.

Just noticed too about Sheridan - he's very much in Stringer's style. It's very difficult to pass hard/long when you're standing upright, feet together (you don't have the leverage in your legs), so he often takes a wide-legged stance when picking up off the base. Meaning he can pretty much fire a long pass up off the ground, without requiring the additional step.

13 tries in 3 games. How bad.

phog · 08-09-2013 8:53pm

Brief highlights from the game

and the ROM flick

Hagz · 08-09-2013 8:57pm

Intentional

phog · 08-09-2013 8:59pm

Hagz wrote: »

Intentional

I'd say intentional flick back but lucky bounce for Coughlan, O'Mahony had overran the ball and flicked it backwards, not sure did he know he'd get the height but he knew Coughlan was chasing behind him.

Hagz · 08-09-2013 9:36pm

phog wrote: »

I'd say intentional flick back but lucky bounce for Coughlan, O'Mahony had overran the ball and flicked it backwards, not sure did he know he'd get the height but he knew Coughlan was chasing behind him.

I'd like to think you're right, but the pessimist in me says he simply flicked back at the ball instinctively without any real purpose to it.

Only he'll know. No prizes for guessing what he'll say

Mahatma Geansai · 08-09-2013 9:44pm

Its a pity that there was no replay of JJ's flick around the 70 mark. Looked like a great bit of control.

phog · 08-09-2013 9:59pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Its a pity that there was no replay of JJ's flick around the 70 mark. Looked like a great bit of control.

Missed that, must have a look for it, when and where did it happen - around what piece of play?

shuffol · 08-09-2013 10:15pm

Not a chance that was a flick IMO, he went to kick the ball through and a funny bounce caused it to ricochet off his heel, surprised its been suggested otherwise.

Hagz · 08-09-2013 10:20pm

No I think he definitley flicked at it. It's the intention to flick it to Coughlan that I don't believe.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 08-09-2013 10:21pm

Ya looks to me like he meant to flick it. Doubt he knew Coughlan was coming though though

phog · 08-09-2013 10:22pm

shuffol wrote: »

Not a chance that was a flick IMO, he went to kick the ball through and a funny bounce caused it to ricochet off his heel, surprised its been suggested otherwise.

I'd be fairly sure he meant to flick it with his heel.

phog · 08-09-2013 10:25pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Ya looks to me like he meant to flick it. Doubt he knew Coughlan was coming though though

Of course he knew Coughlan was behind him, they started running once Murphy chipped it and of all players Coughlan was certainly going to follow thru' on the chase.

Buer · 08-09-2013 10:27pm

If that was intentional, it's the most impressive piece of skill I've ever seen on a rugby field.

shuffol · 08-09-2013 10:30pm

I just cant see it being plausible, to attempt to intentionally flick the ball like that when your running without adjusting your stride is near impossible IMO.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 08-09-2013 10:31pm

shuffol wrote: »

I just cant see it being plausible, to attempt to intentionally flick the ball like that when your running without adjusting your stride is near impossible IMO.

Jaysus it's far from impossible. Just hard to execute, and with a rugby ball, luck is needed

shuffol · 08-09-2013 10:40pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Jaysus it's far from impossible. Just hard to execute, and with a rugby ball, luck is needed

Try it with a football without adjusting your stride and placing a lot of pressure on the top of your foot on the ground to generate the momentum to flick your heel back and then tell me its not impossible. I didnt see ROM do either, all I saw him do was try to fly hack the ball over the line, the ball bounced funny and as his heels were naturally flicking up whilst he was running the ball ricocheted off them and popped up, look at the clip at about 42 seconds, you can clearly see the ball bounce back, to react to that bounce that quickly is not possible.

Mahatma Geansai · 08-09-2013 10:41pm

phog wrote: »

Missed that, must have a look for it, when and where did it happen - around what piece of play?

All I remember is that Munster were in their own have around the 70min mark and Sheridan passed a little behind Hanrahan. I only saw it the once, but it looked like JJ controlled it with his knee or something. Could be completely wrong though

.

Hopefully ROM goes on to be as successful as the last two Munster backs to try audacious flicks. First it was Earls with the GAA-style flick against the Dragons, then Zebo against Wales. :pac:

phog · 08-09-2013 10:55pm

shuffol wrote: »

Try it with a football without adjusting your stride and placing a lot of pressure on the top of your foot on the ground to generate the momentum to flick your heel back and then tell me its not impossible. I didnt see ROM do either, all I saw him do was try to fly hack the ball over the line, the ball bounced funny and as his heels were naturally flicking up whilst he was running the ball ricocheted off them and popped up, look at the clip at about 42 seconds, you can clearly see the ball bounce back, to react to that bounce that quickly is not possible.

We'll have to agree to differ but I'm certain he decided t flick that ball backwards rather than hack it forward.

thomond2006 · 08-09-2013 11:05pm

phog wrote: »

We'll have to agree to differ but I'm certain he decided t flick that ball backwards rather than hack it forward.

Didn't see the replay but this was my impression:

In a split second you don't 'decide' anything. It was a reflex action that paid off. Had me confussed from my viewpoint at the time!

danthefan · 08-09-2013 11:07pm

Imo there is not a hope in hell he wanted the ball to go backwards and it would be an absolutely ridiculous thing to attempt.

phog · 08-09-2013 11:14pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

All I remember is that Munster were in their own have around the 70min mark and Sheridan passed a little behind Hanrahan. I only saw it the once, but it looked like JJ controlled it with his knee or something. Could be completely wrong though .

Hopefully ROM goes on to be as successful as the last two Munster backs to try audacious flicks. First it was Earls with the GAA-style flick against the Dragons, then Zebo against Wales. :pac:

About 71.20, Hurley catches a Garry Owen, feeds it a retreating Holland, poor pass to JJ, who in a split second decides to use his knee to flick the ball to his hands.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Didn't see the replay but this was my impression:

In a split second you don't 'decide' anything. It was a reflex action that paid off. Had me confussed from my viewpoint at the time!

I think players have to make quick decisions all the time depending on what happens in play.

phog · 08-09-2013 11:20pm

danthefan wrote: »

Imo there is not a hope in hell he wanted the ball to go backwards and it would be an absolutely ridiculous thing to attempt.

Why? He had stooped to collect it, realised the ball had bounced backwards, he was falling, if he hacked ahead he was out of the game, he flicked it backwards in the hope it would be collected by Coughlan.

danthefan · 08-09-2013 11:23pm

phog wrote: »

Why? He had stooped to collect it, realised the ball had bounced backwards, he was falling, if he hacked ahead he was out of the game, he flicked it backwards in the hope it would be collected by Coughlan.

Not interested in getting into this, imo there's no way it was close to being intentional as I said, not too bothered if anyone thinks otherwise.

phog · 08-09-2013 11:28pm

danthefan wrote: »

Not interested in getting into this, imo there's no way it was close to being intentional as I said, not too bothered if anyone thinks otherwise.

Ok, that's fine. Just thought you might like to elaborate.

danthefan · 08-09-2013 11:38pm

phog wrote: »

Ok, that's fine. Just thought you might like to elaborate.

If you would really like me to elaborate, it's because if I were coaching a team and a player kicked the ball backwards unsighted I'd be giving him a slap about the head. He had no idea who was behind him, the entire Embra team could have been lined up there for all he knew. It clipped his heel and bounced up to Coughlan, thems the breaks. Munster probably deserved a score as they'd cut Embra open.

And I'm done, as I said I don't really mind if you disagree.

phog · 09-09-2013 12:03am

danthefan wrote: »

If you would really like me to elaborate, it's because if I were coaching a team and a player kicked the ball backwards unsighted I'd be giving him a slap about the head. He had no idea who was behind him, the entire Embra team could have been lined up there for all he knew. It clipped his heel and bounced up to Coughlan, thems the breaks. Munster probably deserved a score as they'd cut Embra open.

And I'm done, as I said I don't really mind if you disagree.

It's very obvious from the time of Murphy's chip ahead there were three Munster players chasing the ball, why wouldn't a flick back be a possibility.

As for the nonsense that the entire Edinburgh team might be lined up behind, where do you think they were going to parachute in from, about half of them were lined up at the other side of the field, I think only one made an effort to tackle O'Mahony and I think Coughlan grounded the ball untouched.

Sabre0001 · 09-09-2013 12:36am

I'm not sure if the arguments were more ridiculous during the off-season or now...

danthefan · 09-09-2013 7:57am

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I'm not sure if the arguments were more ridiculous during the off-season or now...

You're actually right, this is about as daft as it gets.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 09-09-2013 9:44am

I just don't think it was completely accidental. At the same time I don't think he thought "I'm going to flick this into Coughlans hands", but I think there was some concious reaction to him over running the ball

Buer · 09-09-2013 9:47am

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I just don't think it was completely accidental. At the same time I don't think he thought "I'm going to flick this into Coughlans hands", but I think there was some concious reaction to him over running the ball

I think that's pretty much it. Not a hope he approached that ball with the intention of doing what he did. He was beaten by the bobble when he ran over the ball it so flicked out his heels. I don't think he knew it would work out as it did but it worked perfectly. A fortuitous piece of skillful improvisation.

.ak · 09-09-2013 10:08am

Don't know what you're all on about. Coughlan clearly had the ball on a piece of fishing line.

thomond2006 · 09-09-2013 10:27am

.ak wrote: »

Don't know what you're all on about. Coughlan clearly had the ball on a piece of fishing line.

Ah that's the one. An old John Hayes skill if I recall correctly.

who_me · 09-09-2013 4:13pm

danthefan wrote: »

Not interested in getting into this, imo there's no way it was close to being intentional as I said, not too bothered if anyone thinks otherwise.

danthefan wrote: »

If you would really like me to elaborate, it's because if I were coaching a team and a player kicked the ball backwards unsighted I'd be giving him a slap about the head. He had no idea who was behind him, the entire Embra team could have been lined up there for all he knew. It clipped his heel and bounced up to Coughlan, thems the breaks. Munster probably deserved a score as they'd cut Embra open.

And I'm done, as I said I don't really mind if you disagree.

danthefan wrote: »

You're actually right, this is about as daft as it gets.

Not interested in this, but here's my opinion........ now I'm done, I'm not listening any more. Lalalalalalala...
...
Okay, here's another comment......now I'm finished again. Still not listening to you. Lalalalalala....

:P

Tox56 · 09-09-2013 4:20pm

who_me wrote: »

Not interested in this, but here's my opinion........ now I'm done, I'm not listening any more. Lalalalalalala...
...
Okay, here's another comment......now I'm finished again. Still not listening to you. Lalalalalala....

:P

In fairness to Dan at least he appreciated the absurdity of the argument

jamiedav2011 · 09-09-2013 4:22pm

who_me wrote: »

Not interested in this, but here's my opinion........ now I'm done, I'm not listening any more. Lalalalalalala...
...
Okay, here's another comment......now I'm finished again. Still not listening to you. Lalalalalala....

:P

No no no, it was O'Mahoney, not Casey.

who_me · 09-09-2013 4:23pm

Buer wrote: »

I think that's pretty much it. Not a hope he approached that ball with the intention of doing what he did. He was beaten by the bobble when he ran over the ball it so flicked out his heels. I don't think he knew it would work out as it did but it worked perfectly. A fortuitous piece of skillful improvisation.

I agree. You can see from the rear angle he deliberately flicked back a heel (or else he has the weirdest running style in rugby) after missing the kick through, probably hoping to flick it up to himself but instead went backwards to Coughlan.

On a side-note: Dear Mr. Penney, as a long-time Munster fan, I'm writing to you with deep held concern about the recent spate of "Munster winger incredible skill" moments that our young children are being increasingly exposed to. What kind of message is this sending out to young, budding players? Think of the slippery slope! Before you know it, you'll have props with white boots and ear-rings. Ear rings, I tells ya!. Regards, Grumpy in Cork.

who_me · 09-09-2013 4:24pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

No no no, it was O'Mahoney, not Casey.

:P No, wasn't Ma'a either...

mohawk · 09-09-2013 4:38pm

who_me wrote: »

On a side-note: Dear Mr. Penney, as a long-time Munster fan, I'm writing to you with deep held concern about the recent spate of "Munster winger incredible skill" moments that our young children are being increasingly exposed to. What kind of message is this sending out to young, budding players? Think of the slippery slope! Before you know it, you'll have props with white boots and ear-rings. Ear rings, I tells ya!. Regards, Grumpy in Cork.

I agree,
Its only a matter of time before the whole squad will be playing with their socks down around their ankles. Time to stamp out everything that is anyway flashy.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 09-09-2013 4:42pm

I only caught highlights of the game but from reading here, did Duncan Williams play well?

leakyboots · 09-09-2013 4:57pm

Had a fine game

Quint2010 · 09-09-2013 5:30pm

who_me wrote: »

I agree. You can see from the rear angle he deliberately flicked back a heel (or else he has the weirdest running style in rugby) after missing the kick through, probably hoping to flick it up to himself but instead went backwards to Coughlan.

On a side-note: Dear Mr. Penney, as a long-time Munster fan, I'm writing to you with deep held concern about the recent spate of "Munster winger incredible skill" moments that our young children are being increasingly exposed to. What kind of message is this sending out to young, budding players? Think of the slippery slope! Before you know it, you'll have props with white boots and ear-rings. Ear rings, I tells ya!. Regards, Grumpy in Cork.

Ha hope the Munster backs aren't turning into the Ladyboys (in red)...:-)

phog · 09-09-2013 5:31pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I only caught highlights of the game but from reading here, did Duncan Williams play well?

Good enough game but was that because we had more time on the ball and he was somewhat responsible in the defensive gaps for both their tries.

His passing was accurate and fast and generally took the right decision from the base of a ruck. If he kept this performance up throughout the season we'd all be happy.

Pro12: Munster vs Edinburgh, Sat 7 Sep 7:15pm; TG4/BBCALBA

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