Are the Nordic countries paradise on earth.

Micky Dolenz

I had a chance to work in that part of the world but any place that calls winter "The dark" isn't for me.

Mike 1972

Swedens reputation as a liberal paraise is somewhat undeserved given their hardline stance on drug prohibtion and prostitution. Not to mention the fact that they had an official eugenics programme right up until the 1970,s and a growing far right menace today.

_Redzer_

bluewolf wrote: »

Being forced to do something by the state makes you more independent yea

Well if I was a young guy and was mandated into the military I would have to mature a lot and learn to be stronger and more independent, yes. I've met a few people who were in the army and they were mad independent after because while there they had to do everything themselves because nobody else was there to do it for them. I see no harm in it, personally.

Sh1tbag OToole

Loads of tax

Celtic tiger Cafe en Seine prices for drink are normal

People topping themselves out of depression

Government that doesnt allow you to do anything

Mandatory naked saunas with your parents

No thx.

dj jarvis

My name is URL wrote: »

Where are you speaking of? I assume Finland.

In Norway, the minimum and mandatory term is 18 months, and that can be extended for any number of reasons. There are certain ways in which you can 'opt-out', but it's something which is still socially frowned upon to a very large degree.

Not sure what the situation is regarding swapping military service for community service.. in any event it's one of the least attractive aspects of it. The state should not be in a position to take away any of your liberties (once you have not signed them away by being a criminal), however big or small they are, if you are a to truly regard yourself as a free individual.

yea , recite that back to your government , after they have taken care of your welfare from birth , best health , best education , super social back up , when the big angry bear comes knocking on your door ,
funnybut some of the most forward liberal nations on this planet , let alone Europe have mandatory military service

If it was such a infringement on your rights , would the country's with some of the most vocal civil rights advocates not be jumping to getting this abhorrent behavior stopped ? no they dont , as i said , it was put to the Finns years back and they said keep it

you have your view looking in , try it from their side

_Redzer_

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Well if I was a young guy and was mandated into the military I would have to mature a lot and learn to be stronger and more independent, yes. I've met a few people who were in the army and they were mad independent after because while there they had to do everything themselves because nobody else was there to do it for them. I see no harm in it, personally.

Well great. The rest of us have lives to get on with and value our freedom, not wasting up to 2 years of life because a few people who are nothing to do with us "need maturing".

dj jarvis

bluewolf wrote: »

Being forced to do something by the state makes you more independent yea

reminds me of the GAA TBH

dj jarvis

dj jarvis wrote: »

reminds me of the GAA TBH

Eh?

Micky Dolenz

dj jarvis wrote: »

reminds me of the GAA TBH

How so?

Legs.Eleven

dj jarvis wrote: »

reminds me of the GAA TBH

Hmmm.

dj jarvis

bluewolf wrote: »

Well great. The rest of us have lives to get on with and value our freedom, not wasting up to 2 years of life because a few people who are nothing to do with us "need maturing".

you are missing a big point of the service , its for the nations defense should it need it , the maturing is a by product

all this "no way man " till the Russians are blasting the **** out of your town , have a guess who you would want to defend you ? yea , the army you told to "**** off man " :rolleyes:

and i know it will be " thats not really going to happen " and " that's far fetched" , well the Finns have a long memory , both the Russians and the Germans attacked them - not such a bad idea to have a population that can defend the country

dj jarvis

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How so?

it was a joke - relax

** one poster said it was frowned upon not to do service - in the town where i live its frowned upon not to be either into Gaelic football or hurling , its a play on that , a joke is ruined when you have to spell it out !! **

TireeTerror

The Nordic countries were far far better before they opened their doors to immigration. Ive been to all of the countries and I know a lot of people from there and who now live there.

All of them have a pretty similar opinion that since mass immigration, the dangers and crime levels have increased. There is a big problem with integration as many find it difficult to learn the language. Immigrants tend to be housed in poorer areas, all of them together. As you would expect, these areas have higher unemployment and crime is much higher as a result.

Only last week I was playing Battlefield 3 and a few of our clan members are from Nordic countries. One of the guys told us he just heard a gunshot in the street and he would be back in a moment after he looked out the window. Last night he was telling me that some guys were arguing about something and a shot was fired in the air. Last night someone was murdered just before he had came onto teamspeak! I was telling him this was not the Sweden that I knew, and he explained that as his parents were immigrants, he was in a dodgy area and this kind of thing was quite common.

dj jarvis

dj jarvis wrote: »

you are missing a big point of the service y

I'm responding to someone telling me that it's a good idea because of it "maturing" people
Although what I've heard from people in one of those countries, they spend the time messing around getting drunk a lot anyway

dj jarvis

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm responding to someone telling me that it's a good idea because of it "maturing" people
Although what I've heard from people in one of those countries, they spend the time messing around getting drunk a lot anyway

that is true - it can be a bit of a piss up

the Finns are giving out becasue the young of today are to use to central heating and having xboxs , they cant hack skiing for 3 hours in -30 like their fathers did

they just dont make them like they did anymore

4zn76tysfajdxp

dj jarvis wrote: »

the Finns are giving out becasue the young of today are to use to central heating and having xboxs , they cant hack skiing for 3 hours in -30 like their fathers did

they just dont make them like they did anymore

Skiing for 3 hours in -30 sounds well shit, in fairness.

fits

I am really surprised at so many negative responses to be honest.

So. I live in a town in Eastern Finland, not too far from the Russian border in the lake lands. The quality of life here is really great. Cost of living is quite low and it is possible to live without a car. When you fly into the town it looks like it has been dropped into the forest. I bicycle everywhere. In winter there is an abundance of ski paths, some lit, which double as jogging paths during the summer. People here live a very outdoorsy lifestyle. The summer was quite hot with a good few weeks of sunny 30 degree weather.

Work set up is great but I'm not in a typical finnish type situation. But I do feel like it would be possible to have a family and keep a career going here which is not something I would be confident about in Ireland. Oh and the Finns are really lovely people. Salt of the earth. They can be quite reserved but I really have met some super people.

This video is about the amazing education system here and why it works so well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhH78NnRpp0

fits

Collin Zealous Ballet wrote: »

Skiing for 3 hours in -30 sounds well shit, in fairness.

Its not really too bad actually :P -40 now, that is ****.

'no such thing as bad weather, only the wrong clothes'

dj jarvis

Collin Zealous Ballet wrote: »

Skiing for 3 hours in -30 sounds well shit, in fairness.

yea , would not be my thing either , but its not like they do that all the time , and most Finns are born on skis , and are well use to the cold , so not such a problem for them

they look at our weather and are astounded we put up with the lack of seasons , the constant rain and wind

each to their own i suppose

look , all i can draw on is from what i have seen while being in Finland , and its all good from my point of view

we are thinking of moving over , for the good of my young family
i think they would have more opportunity living there than here

sad really

keith16

My first experience of Finland:

Get to Helsinki at about 6pm. Drop the gear at the hotel and as we were tired decided we would just go for a quick bite and a short stroll in the nearby park.

Me being me decided to take a few cans and chance a bit of knacker drinking in the park.

Imagine my shock when I get there and see the place buzzing with life and everyone openly drinking, BBQing and generally having a good time. No anti-social behaviour and no-one leaving a mess.

dj jarvis

fits wrote: »

Its not really too bad actually :P -40 now, that is ****.

'no such thing as bad weather, only the wrong clothes'

you are not in Imatra by any chance ? good uni town i hear

Micky Dolenz

dj jarvis wrote: »

it was a joke - relax

** one poster said it was frowned upon not to do service - in the town where i live its frowned upon not to be either into Gaelic football or hurling , its a play on that , a joke is ruined when you have to spell it out !! **

Man, if I were any more relaxed I'd be alseep.

I thought jokes where meant to be funny . Grew up in a GAA strong hold and never felt the need to partake in any of the disciplines.

Back to the Nordic countries, Someone said earlier there is no such thing as bad weather only wrong clothes. Really? 10 hours of darkness and cold isn't bad weather.

I complain about the 30C + I have to put up with right now but I'd have that over darkness any day of the year.

crockholm

I'm going to agree with dj jarvis on the point about military service,these countries will look after you from erection to resurrection, so I believe that is a fair trade,especially with the military traditions of the nordic countries.

(reality is that they all go up north,shoot moose,get drunk and watch porno)

Micky Dolenz

crockholm wrote: »

I'm going to agree with dj jarvis on the point about military service,these countries will look after you from erection to resurrection, so I believe that is a fair trade,especially with the military traditions of the nordic countries.

(reality is that they all go up north,shoot moose,get drunk and watch porno)

I'd rather get drunk, watch moose and shoot porn *

*not into Moose porn <_<.

inocybe

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Man, if I were any more relaxed I'd be alseep.



Back to the Nordic countries, Someone said earlier there is no such thing as bad weather only wrong clothes. Really? 10 hours of darkness and cold isn't bad weather.

I complain about the 30C + I have to put up with right now but I'd have that over darkness any day of the year.

Scandinavia also contains the wettest city in Europe, twice the rainfall of Western Ireland. They have umbrella vending machines.
That is much much worse than darkness and snow.

dj jarvis

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Man, if I were any more relaxed I'd be alseep.

I thought jokes where meant to be funny . Grew up in a GAA strong hold and never felt the need to partake in any of the disciplines.

Back to the Nordic countries, Someone said earlier there is no such thing as bad weather only wrong clothes. Really? 10 hours of darkness and cold isn't bad weather.

I complain about the 30C + I have to put up with right now but I'd have that over darkness any day of the year.

yea , but its not like they are out in it for the 10 hours !!!
i grant you , its the one thing i would not be mad into TBH

where i stay in Finland , during winter the sun "comes up" at 11am and is gone by about 2pm , the sun skims the horizon

but , during summer its amazing the light at 3am stumbling home from the pub

as for constant 30+ , i lived in Greece and after 8 months i had a pain in my hole with the sun !!

crockholm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Man, if I were any more relaxed I'd be alseep.

I thought jokes where meant to be funny . Grew up in a GAA strong hold and never felt the need to partake in any of the disciplines.

Back to the Nordic countries, Someone said earlier there is no such thing as bad weather only wrong clothes. Really? 10 hours of darkness and cold isn't bad weather.

I complain about the 30C + I have to put up with right now but I'd have that over darkness any day of the year.

You really don't feel it when you have your thermals on.The coldest I have ever been in my life was when I worked next to the Atlantic ocean in winter in Ireland,with a cold sleet/rain being driven into you that keeps you wet and cold all day.Funny to say it but -25 with no breeze isn't so bad-except for the breathing when the air freezes in your nose:)

Micky Dolenz

dj jarvis wrote: »

yea , but its not like they are out in it for the 10 hours !!!
i grant you , its the one thing i would not be mad into TBH

where i stay in Finland , during winter the sun "comes up" at 11am and is gone by about 2pm , the sun skims the horizon

but , during summer its amazing the light at 3am stumbling home from the pub

as for constant 30+ , i lived in Greece and after 8 months i had a pain in my hole with the sun !!

I think you need to be born into either extreme to be truly comfortable in it. I am a run of the mill kinda guy but I swear, too much dark brings out the SAD in me. Too much Sunlight doesn't have the same affect .

It was the only thing putting me off moving north. I heard so many good things from the region but it was enough to put me looking else where.

dj jarvis

crockholm wrote: »

You really don't feel it when you have your thermals on.The coldest I have ever been in my life was when I worked next to the Atlantic ocean in winter in Ireland,with a cold sleet/rain being driven into you that keeps you wet and cold all day.Funny to say it but -25 with no breeze isn't so bad-except for the breathing when the air freezes in your nose

true for ya , it was -34 this Christmas wandering around the Forrest , and i have felt colder walking down O'Connell st in November

but the Finns do say after 3 months of snow and dark they do get a pain in the arse with it

dj jarvis

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I think you need to be born into either extreme to be truly comfortable in it. I am a run of the mill kinda guy but I swear, too much dark brings out the SAD in me. Too much Sunlight doesn't have the same affect .

It was the only thing putting me off moving north. I heard so many good things from the region but it was enough to put me looking else where.

If i do move over , i will put money on this being the one thing that might drive me home , it will be a test indeed , but at least they tend to get fairly good 30+ summers , so not a bad trade

here we could get a winter of rain followed by a summer of rain

mind you - this summer was feckin FANTASTIC

Augmerson

mariaalice wrote: »

Are the Nordic countries and Iceland paradise on earth? A paradise of subsidised childcare, wonderful health care, welfare, high education standards, good government where the bankers were held to account and prison that work. A society of complete equality and sexual tolerance.

I ask as anytime I get in to a discussion on social issue someone will say it works in the Nordic countries as if the social policies of the Nordic countries is the answer to every problem.

Norway is still probably a great country to be born in, amazing healthcare, education and welfare system. Finland is the same. Sweden not so much, the current government and previous ones are doing their best to totally undermine the systems built up there - although maybe that system doesn't really work in this day and age. I do know they are busy as **** privatising state industries and healthcare, and you get a situation nowadays where young Swedes are finding themselves emigrating to Norway to find work - a situation that was historically unthinkable.

Don't know much about Iceland or Denmark so won't comment.

crockholm

dj jarvis wrote: »

true for ya , it was -34 this Christmas wandering around the Forrest , and i have felt colder walking down O'Connell st in November

but the Finns do say after 3 months of snow and dark they do get a pain in the arse with it

Tell me about it brother,I was looking at it from November to the end of April this year:mad:I honestly find the sun being out at 11pm in summer a bigger pain in the hole,and the fact that it never really gets dark in midsummer.

wexie

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

10 hours of darkness and cold isn't bad weather.
.

Still beats the 10 hours darkness with cold and wet we have to put up with here.

crockholm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I think you need to be born into either extreme to be truly comfortable in it. I am a run of the mill kinda guy but I swear, too much dark brings out the SAD in me. Too much Sunlight doesn't have the same affect .

It was the only thing putting me off moving north. I heard so many good things from the region but it was enough to put me looking else where.

Positives being that it's dark when you go to the pub at 2.30 pm-therefore,under drinkers law,technically not a drunkard:D

wexie

crockholm wrote: »

.Funny to say it but -25 with no breeze isn't so bad-except for the breathing when the air freezes in your nose:)

I used to go out for lovely long walks at -20/25, sun out, no wind. Bring a few binbags to sit on, a hipflask for a little 'picnic'.

Until someone's experienced it they won't believe how pleasant a day can be at -25.

fits

tis a bit more than 10 hours, More like 20 hours darkness where I am. But there's so much snow that it reflects the light so it can be quite magical. Its nicer up here in winter months than further south in places like Helsinki, Copenhagen I think. It doesn't get dark at all around midsummer, and I sorta loved that (but black out curtains are necessary)

And well, weather doesn't put me off much anyway. At those low temperatures, it is very dry. Just need a base layer, your regular clothes, a good down jacket with a hood. And winter boots and you're sorted. The houses are well heated so I found I never wore the woolly jumpers I brought over, I need them more in Ireland.

dj jarvis

wexie wrote: »

I used to go out for lovely long walks at -20/25, sun out, no wind. Bring a few binbags to sit on, a hipflask for a little 'picnic'.

Until someone's experienced it they won't believe how pleasant a day can be at -25.

we used to put the baby ( 9/20 month old ) out in her pram , with a foot of snow and it being -17 , she slept like a log , not a bother on her , once you have the right gear it is very pleasant indeed

i also like very much the 150 euro a MONTH child care charge , no hindrance to going to work , school books free as is the school dinner , the teachers are all up to masters standard ( might have a LOT to do with the reason they have the best education system bar none )

fits

dj jarvis wrote: »

wexie wrote: »

I used to go out for lovely long walks at -20/25, sun out, no wind. Bring a few binbags to sit on, a hipflask for a little 'picnic'.

Until someone's experienced it they won't believe how pleasant a day can be at -25.

I couldn't believe it, but I went winter swimming the first time at -22.
also skied over a frozen lake for several hours in the winter and stopped off for some makkara (sausages) and juice half way round.

crockholm

wexie wrote: »

I used to go out for lovely long walks at -20/25, sun out, no wind. Bring a few binbags to sit on, a hipflask for a little 'picnic'.

Until someone's experienced it they won't believe how pleasant a day can be at -25.[/QUOTE

The old man loves coming here in the winter because the cold air helps his breathing,he can walk further here than he can back home and has more energy.

In fairness,we do get actual seasons here:)

Augmerson

wexie wrote: »

I used to go out for lovely long walks at -20/25, sun out, no wind. Bring a few binbags to sit on, a hipflask for a little 'picnic'.

Until someone's experienced it they won't believe how pleasant a day can be at -25.

Dry cold is so much better than our damp cold. Damp cold gets in your bones. No amount of layering up will keep it out.

Actually lots of alcohol does a good job but **** all.

Legs.Eleven

But how's the craic? Is it mighty? Is it 90?

fits

I still hate those first few dry, cold breaths when you go outside though. Coughing fit every single time.

cloudatlas

Just lowered Sweden's happiness index at the Aviva.

crockholm

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

But how's the craic? Is it mighty? Is it 90?

Don't quote us by Isle of Man standards,it is demeaning:mad:

Legs.Eleven

crockholm wrote: »

Don't quote us by Isle of Man standards,it is demeaning:mad:

Huh?

fits

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

But how's the craic? Is it mighty? Is it 90?

Nowhere matches Ireland for craic tbh.

minidazzler

Collin Zealous Ballet wrote: »

€7 for a pint of Guinness doesn't sound like paradise to me.

Average gross salary is 4000 euro a month in Norway, so not so bad

dj jarvis

minidazzler wrote: »

Average gross salary is 4000 euro a month in Norway, so not so bad

i paid 13.50 for a pint of carlsberg in Sweden , and only got to take a mouthful before i had to run :mad:

i'll never let that go , if we win tonight it will go some way to make up for it

Roger_007

Why is everyone not emigrating to Scandinavia if it's such a wonderful place. Personally, I don't know anyone who emigrated there excerpt one girl who met and married a Swede, (not the turnip type swede), and moved there.

wexie

fits wrote: »

I still hate those first few dry, cold breaths when you go outside though. Coughing fit every single time.

hmmm....probably just me being strange, but I don't much like the cold dry feeling you get in the back of your throat.

I do however, like the feeling of the little hairs inside your nose freezing to the inside of your nostrils and then breaking loose when you flare your nostrils.

I know.....strange