Best way for landlord to collect rent

lomb

Given that many template leases specify the 1st of the month as rent day to maintain control what is the norm on setting a new lease. One months deposit and a part months rent? What if the lease begins on the 28th , would one collect on handing over keys, 1 months deposit and 1 and a bit months rent or 1 months deposit and 2 days of rent?

Clearly this forum is an eye opener for me on the legislation. I had no idea of the 14 day notice to pay or 28 day eviction notice or even Part 4 rights. I still would have zero hesitation in chucking a sitting tenant out not paying rents having been given a 14 day notice and 28 day by registered post, email and text.

djimi

The standard is to collect the rent on whatever day the lease is signed, so if the tenant signs the lease on the 14th of the month then they hand over the deposit and the first months rent on that day, and the rent is then paid on the 14th of each subsequent month. There is no real reason to expect the rent paid on the 1st of each month; in reality is makes no difference either way.

I still would have zero hesitation in chucking a sitting tenant out not paying rents having been given a 14 day notice and 28 day by registered post, email and text.

Im not quite sure why you feel the need to keep repeating this, but its unnecessary. The reality is that you would not be "chucking the tenant out" after 28 days, and if you tried you would end up handing them a sizable chunk of money when they win their case against you (and they will win their case against you).

camphor

Sometimes a rent is set for a few days after a tenants payday. This hopefully ensures the tenant is in funds at the appropriate time each month.

Victor

lomb wrote: »

1 months deposit and 2 days of rent?

Do not do this, as it doesn't really indicate an ability to pay rent.

In this circumstance, I would go with deposit + one and a bit month's rent. At other time of a month, I would go with deposit + a month's rent and then the part month's rent the next payment date.

dissed doc

lomb wrote: »

Given that many template leases specify the 1st of the month as rent day to maintain control what is the norm on setting a new lease. One months deposit and a part months rent? What if the lease begins on the 28th , would one collect on handing over keys, 1 months deposit and 1 and a bit months rent or 1 months deposit and 2 days of rent?

Clearly this forum is an eye opener for me on the legislation. I had no idea of the 14 day notice to pay or 28 day eviction notice or even Part 4 rights. I still would have zero hesitation in chucking a sitting tenant out not paying rents having been given a 14 day notice and 28 day by registered post, email and text.

Easiest thing to do is require salary/work declaration like in e.g., Netherlands. For example, requiring a gross income of 4x the rent declared by their employer (or bank statement), or else simply don't take the person as a tenant. After that, a copy of the direct debit by the tenant to their bank. If they don't confirm their income, they probably can't afford it.

Secondly, stick to them moving in from say the last one or two days of the month and begin the rent on the 1st of the month; don't bother trying for 1 or 2 days rent. Month to month, on the 1st or before for payment. People who have regular income and employment plan the house moves in advance and this is easy to coordinate with them. If someone needs a place immediately, won't confirm their salary or employment, then IMO they also are unlikely to be a reliable tenant.

Depending on the location and demand (which is high in places), you could look for two months deposit if it's fully furnished. Seeing as the the laws on tenancy are so heavily weighted in favour of the non-paying/trouble tenant, big deposits, salary confirmations are the only way to do something to protect yourself before agreeing to a tenancy.

mikemac1

If you're going to ask the tenant for their salary the tenant should ask the landlord for a statement showing they are up to date with the bank and it's not going to be repossessed anytime soon

dissed doc

mikemac1 wrote: »

If you're going to ask the tenant for their salary the tenant should ask the landlord for a statement showing they are up to date with the bank and it's not going to be repossessed anytime soon

You could do, but the landlord is the one with the property to rent so they could simply go for someone willing to prove their income. It's not a personal insult.

Demand is high in many areas around Dublin, and the laws are skewed in favour of tenants that refuse to pay. It is one way of ensuring the rent is paid; only go for tenants that can afford it.

TheBandicoot

dissed doc wrote: »

You could do, but the landlord is the one with the property to rent so they could simply go for someone willing to prove their income. It's not a personal insult.

And the tenant is the one with a need for a stable home (without the risk of being turfed out or loss of services/access due to non-payment of management fees) to occupy for the lease period, so they could simply go for someone willing to prove that they can provide this in exchange for the agreed-upon rent. It's not a personal insult.

At the end of the day it's a two way street and neither side should be signing the contract without doing some due diligence and satisfying themselves with the other party.

fasttalkerchat

Let the tenant decide when suits them. I am a tenant and prefer to pay on the 1st of the month because I get paid a few days before and all Direct Debit bills come out in the first week.

djimi

The actual date of the rent payment doesnt make a blind bit of difference; the 1st of the month is no different to any other day. Its just causing unnecessary confusion to start looking for parts of months rent to bring it up to the 1st of the month. Tenant moves in on 14th January then the tenancy runs until the 14th January the next year, and the rent is paid on the 14th of each month. The actual date makes no difference.

djimi

dissed doc wrote: »

You could do, but the landlord is the one with the property to rent so they could simply go for someone willing to prove their income. It's not a personal insult.

Demand is high in many areas around Dublin, and the laws are skewed in favour of tenants that refuse to pay. It is one way of ensuring the rent is paid; only go for tenants that can afford it.

I would very strongly consider asking for proof that management fees have been paid when I move into my next tenancy, as this is something that will affect me directly. I think a tenant is entitled to know that they wont come out to find their car clamped or they wont find themselves locked out of the building because the management company has decides to take action against the landlord. With the amount of landlords who, either through circumstance or just plain badness, dont pay their management fees, I think tenants these days need to cover themselves.

lomb

djimi wrote: »

The actual date of the rent payment doesnt make a blind bit of difference; the 1st of the month is no different to any other day. Its just causing unnecessary confusion to start looking for parts of months rent to bring it up to the 1st of the month. Tenant moves in on 14th January then the tenancy runs until the 14th January the next year, and the rent is paid on the 14th of each month. The actual date makes no difference.

It does make a difference if you have multiple units and need to check statements to maintain control on non paying tenants. By having different dates to check you might find yourself loosing control unless well organised. If rents arent paid by the 3rd a text is sent , if not paid by the 0th the legal 2 week notice sent to pay by registered post and email and if not paid by then the 28day legal eviction notice sent . I think I will set it if rented by the 10th Il ask for one months deposit and part months rent. If after the 10th then one months deposit and 1 and a part months rent. This obviously will only fly in a demand area ie Dublin.

djimi

If you cant keep track of something as simple as payments made then Im afraid you are in the wrong business!

Asking for part months rent is just over complicating things and making both your life and the tenants life more awkward. Nobody wants to deal with that level of nonsense; just sort yourself out properly from the start and keeping track of payments will not be a problem.

lomb

djimi wrote: »

If you cant keep track of something as simple as payments made then Im afraid you are in the wrong business!

Asking for part months rent is just over complicating things and making both your life and the tenants life more awkward. Nobody wants to deal with that level of nonsense; just sort yourself out properly from the start and keeping track of payments will not be a problem.

Im sorry but if tenants dont want to deal with the nonsense then thats their business/problem. Im the landlord therefore I will maintain control of my business. This simple solution eliminates the human factor ensures problem tenants which touch wood we havent had any yet are rapidly found out , sorted and evicted if need be. If the tenant is advised of the plan at the beginning re late rents then they should be on the same page.

djimi

How is it the simple solution to have a situation where you are trying to track partial months rent? You are making your life more awkward than it needs to be. Its really not that hard to keep track of rent due dates and payments made; if it gets to a stage where you have enough tenants to make it difficult to manage then chances are you are going to be paying someone to do that for you!

lomb

djimi wrote: »

How is it the simple solution to have a situation where you are trying to track partial months rent? You are making your life more awkward than it needs to be. Its really not that hard to keep track of rent due dates and payments made; if it gets to a stage where you have enough tenants to make it difficult to manage then chances are you are going to be paying someone to do that for you!

It makes it difficult for the first month , after that its plain sailing. You check your statement on the 3rd if the money isnt there, a text sent, if still not paid by 10th then take it furthur. It means everyones on the same page.
The first month is merely the days remaining divided by the days in that month as a percentage of the full months rent. Simple. If you have 100 units would you be checking dates 30 times a month for their benefit or yours? Even with 2 units it simplifies matters. With 3 it is essential.

djimi

If you have 100 units then you would be running a professional business with a proper system for keeping track of such matters.

If you are managing 2-3 units then you should be able to keep track of 2-3 payments per month without resorting to overly complicated methods.

Each to their own but you are massively over thinking something that does not need to be so contrived.

jd83

lomb wrote: »

Im sorry but if tenants dont want to deal with the nonsense then thats their business/problem. Im the landlord therefore I will maintain control of my business. This simple solution eliminates the human factor ensures problem tenants which touch wood we havent had any yet are rapidly found out , sorted and evicted if need be. If the tenant is advised of the plan at the beginning re late rents then they should be on the same page.

The norm is deposit and month rents in advance, then rent paid every month on the date of signing the lease. As the other poster has said taking a fraction of a months rent is just complicating things, im glad your not my landlord!

Mrs OBumble

dissed doc wrote: »

Easiest thing to do is require salary/work declaration like in e.g., Netherlands. For example, requiring a gross income of 4x the rent declared by their employer (or bank statement), or else simply don't take the person as a tenant. After that, a copy of the direct debit by the tenant to their bank. If they don't confirm their income, they probably can't afford it.

Direct debits are bad: they let the landlord ask for as much money as they want.

Standing orders are good: they let the tenant tell the bank "pay X this amount every Yth day".

I would never sign a tenancy with a landlord who wanted a DD - would assume they're a crook.

beauf

djimi wrote: »

If you have 100 units then you would be running a professional business with a proper system for keeping track of such matters.

If you are managing 2-3 units then you should be able to keep track of 2-3 payments per month without resorting to overly complicated methods.

Each to their own but you are massively over thinking something that does not need to be so contrived.

I don't get the negativity to one partial payment. Its ONE payment how is that complicated? Tenants often suggest it. Most people get paid at regular calendar intervals so like to pay on those dates. I'd facilitate that if possible, it removes a lot of the temptation to spend the rent on something else.

Partial payments can get messy, because then they expect it when they are leaving or in other situations. If its one off then I don't get the big fuss about it. I would expect a (1month + partial) payment in advance though. In addition to the deposit.

miezekatze

In the last few places I've lived, we moved in around the middle of the month and paid one month deposit and half a month in rent as the landlords wanted to be paid on the 1st instead of the middle of the month. Personally I prefer to pay rent in the beginning of the month too, it just makes budgeting a bit easier. Payment was always by standing order.

djimi

beauf wrote: »

I don't get the negativity to one partial payment. Its ONE payment how is that complicated? Tenants often suggest it. Most people get paid at regular calendar intervals so like to pay on those dates. I'd facilitate that if possible, it removes a lot of the temptation to spend the rent on something else.

Partial payments can get messy, because then they expect it when they are leaving or in other situations. If its one off then I don't get the big fuss about it. I would expect a (1month + partial) payment in advance though. In addition to the deposit.

Its either one partial payment that means the tenant has to find deposit plus 1.5 months rent at the start of the tenancy, or its half a month up front which means a mess at the end as the remaining half a month has to be paid.

From a landlords point of view I just dont see the benefit; in reality the 1st of the month is no different to the 12th, 21st or any other day, and there is no real reason to insist that rent comes out on the 1st. From a tenants point of view it might be easier to have the rent coincide with pay day, but honestly anyone who is not capable of sorting their finances so that they have the rent money available regardless of when they get paid is probably not mature enough to be renting in the first place...

Like I said, each to their own. It just seems to be to be creating an overly complicated situation for no good reason.

beauf

Can't be half a month up front unless you accept less than a months rent in advance. I assume most LL aren't going to do that.

I still don't get how a one off payment is over complicated. Its pretty basic stuff.

Considering all issues around getting SW paid directly to the LL, or people in arrears and all the issues with the PRTB. I think its a given that many struggle with paying their rent.

djimi

beauf wrote: »

Can't be half a month up front unless you accept less than a months rent in advance. I assume most LL aren't going to do that.

I still don't get how a one off payment is over complicated. Its pretty basic stuff.

When the alternative is 12 equal monthly payments, anything that deviates from that is overly complicated as far as Im concerned!

beauf wrote: »

Considering all issues around getting SW paid directly to the LL, or people in arrears and all the issues with the PRTB. I think its a given that many struggle with paying their rent.

There is struggling to pay your rent because you cant afford it, and there is struggling to pay your rent because it comes out the week before you get paid and you dont have the discipline not to spend the money before it is due. Im talking about the latter (if you dont have the money coming in to cover the rent then its not going to make any difference what day the rent is due).

beauf

Splitting hairs IMO. Some find it easier one way others another.

sunnysoutheast

lomb wrote: »

The first month is merely the days remaining divided by the days in that month as a percentage of the full months rent. Simple.

That is not how you work out one day's rent to calculate part payments. In February that would be €500 for 14 days at €1000/mo, in July €451.61.

A savvy tenant would run rings round you if you tried to evict them via your "semi-legal" methods. Amazing what a call to the guards will do when a landlord comes calling to evict, you have formally informed them of your intentions after all. Then it's all on record.

If a tenant wants to align their payment for any day of the month then let them, but it's always one full month plus the alignment.