OAC and Muscle Up question

Sea The Starz

To anyone who can perform a one arm chin up, how much could you weighted chin at that time, absolute amount and as a percentage of your bodyweight. Also what progressions did you find the best eg one arm negatives, band assisted etc.

Same for muscle ups, how much can you weighted pull and dip and what progressions did you find the best?

Thanks

Hanley

Sea The Starz wrote: »

To anyone who can perform a one arm chin up, how much could you weighted chin at that time, absolute amount and as a percentage of your bodyweight. Also what progressions did you find the best eg one arm negatives, band assisted etc.

Same for muscle ups, how much can you weighted pull and dip and what progressions did you find the best?

Thanks

Re: muscle ups - I know guys that can pull up 40kg and can't do em. Pulling strength is rarely the problem if you can do a few. The dip and tekkers is what gets people.

Chancer3001

one arm chin up, are ya allowed to hold the other wrist?

If so, its actually way easier than it loooks.

Sea The Starz

Chancer3001 wrote: »

one arm chin up, are ya allowed to hold the other wrist?

If so, its actually way easier than it loooks.

No, sorry, should have been more specific. I mean a one arm/hand chin where the other arm is not helping at all

Ant11

Hanley wrote: »

Re: muscle ups - I know guys that can pull up 40kg and can't do em. Pulling strength is rarely the problem if you can do a few. The dip and tekkers is what gets people.

This ^. Most people struggle with technique and the transition in getting over the bar (the dipping part of the movement). It's really a matter of practice and identifying the areas your having trouble with and working on it. Being able to dip heavy will improve your dipping strength but it may not help you get over the bar. You may need to work on doing straight bar dips and lowering yourself as low as possible. When I was practicing for my MU I was dipping until my chest/nipples would touch the bar and then back up.

If you post where your getting stuck I could probably offer more advise.

Here's a good tutorial from Al Kaladlo.
http://www.alkavadlo.com/2013/07/22/clean-up-your-muscle-up/

Sea The Starz

Ant11 wrote: »

This ^. Most people struggle with technique and the transition in getting over the bar (the dipping part of the movement). It's really a matter of practice and identifying the areas your having trouble with and working on it. Being able to dip heavy will improve your dipping strength but it may not help you get over the bar. You may need to work on doing straight bar dips and lowering yourself as low as possible. When I was practicing for my MU I was dipping until my chest/nipples would touch the bar and then back up.

If you post where your getting stuck I could probably offer more advise.

Here's a good tutorial from Al Kaladlo.
http://www.alkavadlo.com/2013/07/22/clean-up-your-muscle-up/

Thanks, I've just been doing weighted pulls/dips and some explosive pull ups. I haven't really tried a muscle up yet, as I'm wary of bad habits. I'm nervous of wrecking my shoulders swinging/kipping too much. I was thinking of finding a bar that's low to the ground and jumping up (as opposed to pulling myself up) to get a feel for the transition, then trying band assisted mu's and then hopefully I should be able to do them?

Just wondering do you use a false grip or regular grip? Finally do you find rings or a bar easier?Thanks

Ant11

Sea The Starz wrote: »

Thanks, I've just been doing weighted pulls/dips and some explosive pull ups. I haven't really tried a muscle up yet, as I'm wary of bad habits. I'm nervous of wrecking my shoulders swinging/kipping too much. I was thinking of finding a bar that's low to the ground and jumping up (as opposed to pulling myself up) to get a feel for the transition, then trying band assisted mu's and then hopefully I should be able to do them?

Just wondering do you use a false grip or regular grip? Thanks

I use a regular grip and others I know use the same. Never actually tried a bar muscle up with false grip, I use false on rings though.

Unless you've a shoulder injury you should be fine. The swing for a MU is not like a crossfit kipp were you flap back n forth, it's controlled, legs never swing behind your back and it's more of trying to pull your knees into your stomach if that makes sense. The better you get at it the less you will need to do it.

If your never tried it just go and try it and see how you get on. Record it and watch what your doing. From there you can access what you need to work on. Or post it here.

Starting on top of the bar is a good way of practicing the swing and you should be able to generate enough force to get over the bar if your straight-bar dip strength is adequate.

I'd also try a straight bar dip, lower yourself as low as possible and see if you can dip back up. It may look/sound easy but it's a good test to see if your lacking strength for that part of the movement.

Bands are again something you can play around with. You could work from a thicker band down.

BrianD3

IIRC I was 72 kg when I did my first OAC and my two arm weighted pullup at the time was +72 kg or maybe a little more.

As for progressions for the OAC I got several minor injuries from doing negatives with very sore elbows being a particular issue.

One thing that I think helped me and didn't result in any injuries was doing weighted OACs below/up to whatever my sticking point was at the time. Eg when I could only get up 3 inches with one arm I'd add weight (say 5 kg) and would still be able to move 3 inches. Would do that for a coupe of sessions then when I went back to unweighted I might get up 6 inches.

Re: muscle ups I have only attempted them (unsuccessfully) a couple of times and have never really trained for them, I also don't do dips or weighted dips.

Sea The Starz

BrianD3 wrote: »

IIRC I was 72 kg when I did my first OAC and my two arm weighted pullup at the time was +72 kg or maybe a little more.

As for progressions for the OAC I got several minor injuries from doing negatives with very sore elbows being a particular issue.

One thing that I think helped me and didn't result in any injuries was doing weighted OACs below/up to whatever my sticking point was at the time. Eg when I could only get up 3 inches with one arm I'd add weight (say 5 kg) and would still be able to move 3 inches. Would do that for a coupe of sessions then when I went back to unweighted I might get up 6 inches.

Re: muscle ups I have only attempted them (unsuccessfully) a couple of times and have never really trained for them, I also don't do dips or weighted dips.

Wow chinning with bw attached..damn. Would you advise waiting till I can do that or do you think you had enough strength when you were chinning less and just needed to work on one arm stuff/technique?

BrianD3

It's hard to say. From what I've read most people who do a OAC/OAP cannot do or haven't done a +100% weighted chinup/pullup. Whereas with me I got the latter well before the former

I had a quick look at your log and you are doing weighted chins with +25kg for reps? Decent strength but I think I you should concentrate on getting stronger (say up to +50% or +66% BW) before specific one arm work given the possibility for injury with negative one armers etc.

PS I have never really done weighted two arm chins - just weighted two arm pullups. I think that there is less chance of elbow problems with pullups so would recommend them over chinups.

rubadub

Sea The Starz wrote: »

I was thinking of finding a bar that's low to the ground and jumping up (as opposed to pulling myself up) to get a feel for the transition

I have done this, if your legs are bent or in a L sit position you can use a very low bar. You can also do a pullover to get into the high position on a tall bar and then do a negative. Though doing the pullover take some effort itself, but they are easier than they might look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqGBNBxUp-Y

To work one arm more doing chins & pullups you can simply hold the bar with just 1 finger on one side.

thegreatiam

rubadub wrote: »

I have done this, if your legs are bent or in a L sit position you can use a very low bar. You can also do a pullover to get into the high position on a tall bar and then do a negative. Though doing the pullover take some effort itself, but they are easier than they might look.


To work one arm more doing chins & pullups you can simply hold the bar with just 1 finger on one side.

Used to do these from a bunk bed. sit on the bottom and roll up to the top.

I'm pretty sure a OAP uses different muscles to the normal variety. So being able to do a heavy weighted pull up doesn't necessarily translate to a one armed pull up.

You can also practice OAP by wrapping a towel around the off hand side and gripping that while pulling with your lifting hand.

We used to progress OAC by holding the lifting hand at the wrist, then the elbow then removing it completely. Not sure if that would be a regular progression.

Also, if I remember from my rockclimbing days. There used to be carry over from doing monkey swings on the climbing frames.
Not sure if its correct, but the guys who could go longer on the monkey swings were better at OAPs. I assume rope climbing would have similar carry over.

rubadub

thegreatiam wrote: »

I'm pretty sure a OAP uses different muscles to the normal variety.

Yeah, you are a lot more "twisted" doing them

I have seen warnings like this before

BrianD3 wrote: »

Decent strength but I think I you should concentrate on getting stronger (say up to +50% or +66% BW) before specific one arm work given the possibility for injury with negative one armers etc..

Not sure where the injury is most likely, but I think the elbows were mentioned.

thegreatiam wrote: »

You can also practice OAP by wrapping a towel around the off hand side and gripping that while pulling with your lifting hand.

+1. I have used a rope like this, as you progress you move the hand holding the towel further down the towel/rope to engage the other arm more.

I like the monkey bars too, you are carrying all the weight momentarily. You can sort of mimic this on a normal chinup bar too, just hanging releasing 1 hand momentarily, then switch.

You all probably know this site, but just in case http://www.beastskills.com/one-arm-chin-up-pull-up/

thegreatiam

Another exercise we used to do was climb up 2 side by side ropes, one hard on each. That was tough.

a ladder between two walls of different heights, just go back and forth.
The best is basically swinging from monkey bars like a loon. Just cos its the most non-exercise out there. Do it in a group and play gladiators. 2 hours of that a day for a few weeks and you'll be one arm pulling no worries.
Man I miss being a kid.