Is a politicians home fair game?

Annasopra

My name is URL wrote: »

Himself and foxyboxers69 are Labour supporters. They've no option at this stage but to make insane leaps of logic.

Regardless of what party I support I think its pure Scumbag behaviour to picket any politicians home.

Annasopra

The Th!ng wrote: »

During the election the litter wardens of my local council took down hundreds of posters that were put up in ways that were a contravention of the bye-laws. The vast majority of these were never collected afterwards and the council ended up paying for their disposal.

Yeah. I'm calling bullsh!t

Foxhound38

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe not BUT it will inconvenience said politician and let him know that the people he has targeted are not taking it lightly.

Targetted? Do you reckon he woke up one morning and said "you know what, I don't like some of my constituents - better target them for the craic". Is that what you think politics is about or why politicians make the decisions they do?

Anyway, could you point out how intimidating his family and neighbours might result in a tangible benefit for the people?

Annasopra

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Targetted? Do you reckon he woke up one morning and said "you know what, I don't like some of my constituents - better target them for the craic". Is that what you think politics is about or why politicians make the decisions they do?

Anyway, could you point out how intimidating his family and neighbours might result in a tangible benefit for the people?

Didnt you know that Politicians have lists of all their constituents and their income and they deliberately choose whose income they will cut?

catallus

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Didnt you know that Politicians have lists of all their constituents and their income and they deliberately choose whose income they will cut?

Well then it's time to up the ante! :mad:

tayto lover

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Targetted? Do you reckon he woke up one morning and said "you know what, I don't like some of my constituents - better target them for the craic". Is that what you think politics is about or why politicians make the decisions they do?

Anyway, could you point out how intimidating his family and neighbours might result in a tangible benefit for the people?

It is the same type of targeting that was done to the homes of the citizens with water and property taxes. How many are suffering and worrying at this present minute because they know they haven't the money to pay these charges?
Some people obviously organised themselves to fight back and if this is their method and their message is getting through then I feel they are justified. It will make the politicians think if nothing else and it seems to be having more effect than other kinds of protests which were ignored by these politicians.
Some of my family and neighbours are very worried about what they consider unfair taxes.

My name is URL

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Regardless of what party I support I think its pure Scumbag behaviour to picket any politicians home.

Why? If it's peaceful and legal then how is it any worse than picketing outside of their place of work, or where they choose to do business? People who have nothing to do with it are going to be affected regardless of where the 'protest' takes place.

I don't agree with the idea of putting politicians under pressure like that while they are at home and with family. But that's exactly the kind of pressure that many people feel is being placed on them by those same politicians.

LizzieJones

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Regardless of what the issue is, Are the personal homes of politicians fair game for protests?

No because that is impacting the politician's family who are private citizens.

It is also not right for reporters to stake out their homes 24/7 either like reporters did to Toronto Mayor Rob Ford for the last year.

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

Some of my family and neighbours are very worried about what they consider unfair taxes.

Is any tax fair?

The Th!ng

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yeah. I'm calling bullsh!t

You can call it whatever you like, but it's true. It happens every time there's an election.

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Is any tax fair?

Excessive taxes are unfair.
If they keep lumping new taxes on the worker do you think its fair?

Annasopra

My name is URL wrote: »

Why?

It's intimidating, intrusive, threatening, bullying tactics and such have tactics have no place in a democracy.

The Th!ng

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It's intimidating, intrusive, threatening, bullying tactics and such have tactics have no place in a democracy.

Please tell that to Blueshirt Hogan.

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

Excessive taxes are unfair.
If they keep lumping new taxes on the worker do you think its fair?

Taxes will keep growing until the country can pay for itself.

Baffling concept for some I know.

tayto lover

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It's intimidating, intrusive, threatening, bullying tactics and such have tactics have no place in a democracy.

Yes a bit like threatening the revenue on people.:pac:

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Taxes will keep growing until the country can pay for itself.

Baffling concept for some I know.

Well it seems that unlike you some people have balls and are not going to lie down and take it.

Annasopra

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes a bit like threatening the revenue on people.:pac:

:rolleyes:

Annasopra

tayto lover wrote: »

Well it seems that unlike you some people have balls and are not going to lie down and take it.

Go down to Raheny why dont you then

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

Well it seems that unlike you some people have balls and are not going to lie down and take it.

Indeed, no balls between my legs!

Its awfully apt for a Shinner to be all for violence & intimidation though.

Foxhound38

My name is URL wrote: »

Why? If it's peaceful and legal then how is it any worse than picketing outside of their place of work, or where they choose to do business? People who have nothing to do with it are going to be affected regardless of where the 'protest' takes place.

I don't agree with the idea of putting politicians under pressure like that while they are at home and with family. But that's exactly the kind of pressure that many people feel is being placed on them by those same politicians.

Do you not think it sets a bit of a bad precident? Policy demands through intimiadation of a politicians family - say these bullyboy tactic worked (it won't, but imagine) and had the effect of making Sean Kenny do whatever it is that this small group wanted him to do (they aren't exactly clear on that one - do they think he can cancel the water tax unilaterally?). What wider effect do you think that might have on our democracy?

Conmaicne Mara

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Regardless of what party I support I think its pure Scumbag behaviour to picket any politicians home.

Agree. I helped organise a farmer protest in Dublin last week. Had it been suggested we travel to and set up camp outside either ministers home I would have flatly refused to participate and argued against people going to support it. Someones home is completely out of bounds. It would also have been terrible PR.

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Indeed, no balls between my legs!

Its awfully apt for a Shinner to be all for violence & intimidation though.

Never was a Shinner but agree with these protests.
AND I have seen no violence or intimidation on any of the videos of the protests outside politicians homes.

Foxhound38

tayto lover wrote: »

Well it seems that unlike you some people have balls and are not going to lie down and take it.

In other words, "I want great public services and I don't want to have to pay for them and I'm going to b*tch and moan and whinge until I get what I want - also every person elected to any position that does something I don't like for any reason is a traitor and I now have the right to do whatever I want to them, their families and their neighbours".

That isn't the way the world works.

tayto lover

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Agree. I helped organise a farmer protest in Dublin last week. Had it been suggested we travel to and set up camp outside either ministers home I would have flatly refused to participate and argued against people going to support it. Someones home is completely out of bounds. It would also have been terrible PR.

According to Hogan ours are not.

Dyr

Are these heads protesting in a public place?

Draw your curtains deputy. Privacy sorted

comongethappy

Foxhound38 wrote: »

What wider effect do you think that might have on our democracy?

What is the point of democracy if policy is determined by a mob intimidating a politician's family.

Such tactics only hurt democracy.

Foxhound38

tayto lover wrote: »

According to Hogan ours are not.

Do you think Hogan is bringing in these taxes just to annoy you tayto lover?

Conmaicne Mara

tayto lover wrote: »

According to Hogan ours are not.

I don't agree. Water & property taxes are common elsewhere. I'm not saying I agree with either, I#m not saying not to protest either, but it's not intimidation, nor is it intrusion, and picketing a persons home is not the right way to do business.

When a political party sends the state into your house unlawfully, and abuses you inside or outside, or sets up death squads or internment camps I'll reconsider my opinion.

tayto lover

Foxhound38 wrote: »

In other words, "I want great public services and I don't want to have to pay for them and I'm going to b*tch and moan and whinge until I get what I want - also every person elected to any position that does something I don't like for any reason is a traitor and I now have the right to do whatever I want to them, their families and their neighbours".

That isn't the way the world works.

The Labour party are the traitors who broke the aims, principles and traditions of their own party. Lies lies and more lies BUT isn't that what you tend to do during an election campaign according to Pat Rabbitte.

Dave!

I'm curious: if I stood outside one of my neighbours' houses and shouted at them when they passed by, surely I'd be done for harassment? But when lots of people do it...?

catallus

Everybody stop arguing

You are ruining my evening!

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

The Labour party are the traitors who broke the aims, principles and traditions of their own party. Lies lies and more lies BUT isn't that what you tend to do during an election campaign according to Pat Rabbitte.

So don't vote for them.

Note, you haven't offered any alternative.
Just impotent rhetoric.

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

So don't vote for them.

Note, you haven't offered any alternative.
Just impotent rhetoric.

There have been many alternatives put forward on many other threads. There were threads dedicated to HHC, property tax and water charges. Look them up if you want.

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

There have been many alternatives put forward on many other threads. There were threads dedicated to HHC, property tax and water charges. Look them up if you want.

Or you can tell us your alternative to taxation, here & now.

Your balanced budget..... aaaannd ... Go!

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Or you can tell us your alternative to taxation, here & now.

Your balanced budget..... aaaannd ... Go!

Good try but you can look them up yourself.
This thread is about the rights/wrongs of protests at politicians homes.
I agree with them and you dont.

Foxhound38

tayto lover wrote: »

The Labour party are the traitors who broke the aims, principles and traditions of their own party. Lies lies and more lies BUT isn't that what you tend to do during an election campaign according to Pat Rabbitte.

If that's how you feel then vote them out in 2016 - that's the beauty of the system we live under. However no citizen is entitled to follow him home throwing abuse at him and his family in their private space - you couldn't do it to your bank manager, you couldn't do it to your taxi-driver, so why do you feel you and your thug friends can do it to a politician?

If you disagree with the way a politician does his or her job, you have peaceful recourse. Protest is a vital component of democracy - but there are lines of reason and a persons home, privacy and family life are some of them. Your right to expect to be able to live your private life as a citizen without fear of intimidation by thugs isn't forfeit on election to any position.

I use the term thugs specifically here - Derek Byrne who was quoted in the article was the same piece of work that harassed and bullied a young woman candidate out of her own estate and reduced her to tears a few weeks ago, all for just engaging in the democratic process. I don't care what party you're in if you're even in one at all - the way he operates is just sheer thuggery.

He and his sort wouldn't know democracy if it hit him in the face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyjZWO3BtNc

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

Good try but you can look them up yourself.
This thread is about the rights/wrongs of protests at politicians homes.
I agree with them and you dont.

Figures.

All impotent anger, desperate for someone to attack..... No notion of a viable alternative.

Symptomatic of the left in Ireland.

'Infinite spending, no taxes, or we know where your kids live'.

How noble.

Foxhound38

comongethappy wrote: »

Figures.

All impotent anger, desperate for someone to attack..... No notion of a viable alternative.

Symptomatic of the left in Ireland.

'Infinite spending, no taxes, or we know where your kids live'.

How noble.

In fairness, I don't think the left would want to be associated with these fools either!

The DublinSaysNo crowd seem more like weak-brew populists with very little concept of politics and an even worse understanding of economics more than anything else.

tayto lover

Foxhound38 wrote: »

If that's how you feel then vote them out in 2016 - that's the beauty of the system we live under. However no citizen is entitled to follow him home throwing abuse at him and his family in their private space - you couldn't do it to your bank manager, you couldn't do it to your taxi-driver, so why do you feel you and your thug friends can do it to a politician?

If you disagree with the way a politician does his or her job, you have peaceful recourse. Protest is a vital component of democracy - but there are lines of reason and a persons home, privacy and family life are some of them. Your right to expect to be able to live your private life as a citizen without fear of intimidation by thugs isn't forfeit on election to any position.

I use the term thugs specifically here - Derek Byrne who was quoted in the article was the same piece of work that harassed and bullied a young woman candidate out of her own estate and reduced her to tears a few weeks ago, all for just engaging in the democratic process. I don't care what party you're in if you're even in one at all - the way he operates is just sheer thuggery.

He and his sort wouldn't know democracy if it hit him in the face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyjZWO3BtNc

I have no thug friends (don't know if you have).
I see nothing wrong with a "peaceful" protest anywhere.
If protests are not peaceful then it's up to the Gardai to deal with them and punish the offenders. People have the right to peacefully protest anywhere they see fit.

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Figures.

All impotent anger, desperate for someone to attack..... No notion of a viable alternative.

Symptomatic of the left in Ireland.

'Infinite spending, no taxes, or we know where your kids live'.

How noble.

:rolleyes:

Foxhound38

tayto lover wrote: »

I have no thug friends (don't know if you have).
I see nothing wrong with a "peaceful" protest anywhere.
If protests are not peaceful then it's up to the Gardai to deal with them and punish the offenders. People have the right to peacefully protest anywhere they see fit.

They don't have the right to harass people. Look at the Martina Genockey video - would you feel safe if that thug chasing her with the camera was standing outside your house for days howling abuse at you?

Honestly?

Dave!

Foxhound38 wrote: »

If that's how you feel then vote them out in 2016 - that's the beauty of the system we live under. However no citizen is entitled to follow him home throwing abuse at him and his family in their private space - you couldn't do it to your bank manager, you couldn't do it to your taxi-driver, so why do you feel you and your thug friends can do it to a politician?

If you disagree with the way a politician does his or her job, you have peaceful recourse. Protest is a vital component of democracy - but there are lines of reason and a persons home, privacy and family life are some of them. Your right to expect to be able to live your private life as a citizen without fear of intimidation by thugs isn't forfeit on election to any position.

I use the term thugs specifically here - Derek Byrne who was quoted in the article was the same piece of work that harassed and bullied a young woman candidate out of her own estate and reduced her to tears a few weeks ago, all for just engaging in the democratic process. I don't care what party you're in if you're even in one at all - the way he operates is just sheer thuggery.

He and his sort wouldn't know democracy if it hit him in the face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyjZWO3BtNc

Disgusting, vile animals, that lot.

tayto lover

Foxhound38 wrote: »

They don't have the right to harass people. Look at the Martina Genockey video - would you feel safe if that thug chasing her with the camera was standing outside your house for days howling abuse at you?

Honestly?

No I wouldn't BUT if they are holding peaceful protests then I have no problem with them at all. It is about the right to peaceful protest and I fell that politicians obviously pay more heed to protests when they effect them.

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Still no answer then.
Used to that by now Tayto, your rich in rhetoric, sparse on alternative solutions.

I refer to my previous post... No answers & the ignobility of a common thug.

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Still no answer then.
Used to that by now Tayto, your rich in rhetoric, sparse on alternative solutions.

I refer to my previous post... No answers & the ignobility of a common thug.

Look them up yourself, they're in the HHC, Property Tax and Water Charges threads. I ain't humoring you and your silly behaviour. This is about the right to protest.:D

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

This is about the right to protest.:D

Which is never under threat.

But shouting abuse at the spouse & children of a politician outside their home is not "protest".

Its cheap intimidation, used only by those who know they have no better solution, but are angry as hell anyway.

tayto lover

comongethappy wrote: »

Which is never under threat.

But shouting abuse at the spouse & children of a politician outside their home is not "protest".

Its cheap intimidation, used only by those who know they have no better solution, but are angry as hell anyway.

There are Public Order laws to deal with protests which get out of hand.
How many have been arrested on these protests outside the politicians homes incidentally?

S.O

comongethappy wrote: »

Figures.

All impotent anger, desperate for someone to attack..... No notion of a viable alternative.

Symptomatic of the left in Ireland.

'Infinite spending, no taxes, or we know where your kids live'.

How noble.

About month ago on a prime time debate about the water charges , although it was totally biased/one sided a panel of three with one person against water charges (Clare Daly) and two for water charges (fergus o dewd) and a college economist- o dewd Interupted clare daly a few times asking whats the alternative? when clare daly replied and pointed out that a financial transcations tax was being introduced in different EU countries that week and an FTT would raise the same amount of revenue as a water charge- neither of the two pro water charges on the panel wanted to know, o dewd continued to Interupt her despite being answered about an alternative revenue raising measure.

Dave!

Just realised I had a post in this thread a year ago... Since we're rehashing the arguments, I guess this post is still relevant

Dave! wrote: »

And while we're hanging around politicians' houses, can we find ways to disrupt their lives in other ways? Is it okay to turn up outside the church when their daughter is getting married, and ruin their day? Maybe at a family funeral we can get a group together to wave pictures of aborted foetuses?

comongethappy

tayto lover wrote: »

There are Public Order laws to deal with protests which get out of hand.
How many have been arrested on these protests outside the politicians homes incidentally?

No law is broken.

Shouting in public is still okey-dokey AFAIK.

But that's a lame fig-leaf of an argument.

Standing outside a house roaring your head off at a spouse & child, is still intimidating, still thuggish & so so pathetic.

Don't like someone's ideas?
Come up with a better one..... Something the mob struggle with.

But at least have enough honour to leave their families out of it.