Hundreds of apartment boom-builds are unsafe, say experts

on_my_oe

HUNDREDS of apartment blocks built during the boom around the country could be as dangerous as Priory Hall, fire safety experts have warned.
Fire safety inspectors who have been called to examine blocks say owners and management companies are "burying their heads in the sand" over the dangers

Article in the Independent today
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hundreds-of-boombuilds-are-unsafe-say-experts-29561378.html

Most of those who brought apartments are already screwed with negative equity, so this just adds to the problem. For potential buyers this just adds to a very long list of pre-contract inspections.

camphor

Most people who have been killed in fires in their homes have been in older converted flats. Others have been in ordinary houses. There have been no fires in apartment blocks leading to loss of life. This is just scare-mongering by the builders who made money putting up the blocks and are now looking for more money to tear them down and re-build them.

TheBandicoot

Yeah, I wouldn't trust a word from the Independent on any property-related topics.

snubbleste

Tom McFeely himself stated that there are hundreds of other developments out there like Priory Hall. I don't question that at all.

It's not in the State's interest to reveal that this is the case as they (the local authorities) would be liable for not implementing the regulations properly.

camphor

snubbleste wrote: »

Tom McFeely himself stated that there are hundreds of other developments out there like Priory Hall. I don't question that at all.

Abuilder? That most reliable of occupations.

snubbleste wrote: »

It's not in the State's interest to reveal that this is the case as they (the local authorities) would be liable for not implementing the regulations properly.

Only if they failed to implement a European Union Directive properly.

Busted Flat.

There is a lot of them in Dundrum South Dublin built by a well connected Developer, he is never mentioned. After all they have their scapegoat in McFeely, and then again, he is being used as a battering ram against SF.

Rabbo

camphor wrote: »

Most people who have been killed in fires in their homes have been in older converted flats. Others have been in ordinary houses. There have been no fires in apartment blocks leading to loss of life. This is just scare-mongering by the builders who made money putting up the blocks and are now looking for more money to tear them down and re-build them.

It may only be a matter of time.

Many of the apartment blocks constructed during the boom were of timber frame construction as they are quicker to build. Before the boom, blockwork would have been more popular.The inherent fire resistance of blockwork makes it relatively easy to detail for fire safety. However, there is alot more room for error in timber frame constriction.

I'd imagine there are many timber framed buildings throughout the country that do not have the proper fire stopping installed.

camphor

Rabbo wrote: »

It may only be a matter of time.

Many of the apartment blocks constructed during the boom were of timber frame construction as they are quicker to build. Before the boom, blockwork would have been more popular.The inherent fire resistance of blockwork makes it relatively easy to detail for fire safety. However, there is alot more room for error in timber frame constriction.

I'd imagine there are many timber framed buildings throughout the country that do not have the proper fire stopping installed.

Deal in facts, not imagination. Only timber framed houses were built. All apartment blocks were of pre-cast concrete construction.

Rabbo

camphor wrote: »

Deal in facts, not imagination. Only timber framed houses were built. All apartment blocks were of pre-cast concrete construction.

Wow. It's laughable that you are demanding that we deal with facts and then you spout that tripe.

It is a known fact that the upper two floors of Priory Hall were of timber frame.
There are many timber frame buildings, both commercial and residential, throughout the country.


These might give you an idea:
http://www.kingspancentury.com/cent/infocentre_gallery.html

http://www.ttfc.ie/projects.html

notharrypotter

It's not in the State's interest to reveal that this is the case as they (the local authorities) would be liable for not implementing the regulations properly.

Not sure if the State has any liability as there is no actual "building control" in Ireland.

From what I understand its up to the house owner to ensure via their "Expert" to ensure that the building complies with the relevant regulations.

So where a builder failed to comply with the relevant regulation it falls on the house owner to rectify the noncompliance.
Then they can pursue the builder for the cost of rectifying the issue.

Best of luck here as it costs too much!

I remember reading that the apartment's in Priory Hall were "certified" by the various subcontractors as complying with regulations.

Busted Flat.

This isn't Mc Feely built, why no out cry for the residents. Oh I forgot, you are not supposed to mention the name of the developer, if it is not Mc Feely.

Dundrum apartment complex to be evacuated over fire safety breaches.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&ved=0CIwBEBYwCg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2012%2F0709%2Fdundrum-apartment-complex-to-be-evacuated.html&ei=eL4sUpykJMqrhAe_yQE&usg=AFQjCNGrwhdwy6ucYV7kMJz8IsH_5J2NlQ&bvm=bv.51773540,d.ZG4

notharrypotter

Powers of Inspection by Authorised
Persons
0.12 Section 11 of the Building Control
Acts 1990 and 2007 (No. 3 of 1990 and No.
21 of 2007), empowers an authorised officer
of a building control authority to take action in
relation to construction works, including the
taking of samples of materials, as may be
necessary to establish whether or not the
requirements of the Building Regulations are
being complied with.

Only visit if they believe that the regulations are not being complied with.

No interest in visiting otherwise.

On whose behalf were the Government Ministers acting when they omitted any oversight of construction projects which may have actually benefited the consumer.

A tent in the west comes to mind.

notharrypotter

From the journal.ie.

Do properties not have to be signed off on?
This is where Ireland’s weak system of self-regulation comes into play. The apartments came with all the requisite sign-offs from engineers, fire safety officers and surveyors, as well as the necessary documentation.
Fire plans are signed off on at planning/drawing stages so nobody actually inspects the building after it is complete – and as unbelievable as that seems, it is legally fine.
Because regulations allow for the certification of work without a local authority representative actually being on site, much of the work done was never inspected. It is up to the builder – and, often, the builder alone – to ensure all the materials used are up to standard. Some would have done this, others would not have. This development fell into the latter category.
And because the sanctions are so minor for any deviants, there wasn’t any big incentive to stay in line with what the light-touch regulation called for.
As homeowners will know, the lenders giving out the mortgages are also required to send a surveyor but during those busy boom years, that surveyor was more akin to a valuer. His or her job could be completed by merely driving by the complex in Donaghmede to check that ‘yes, it exists; yes, it should be priced at market rates’.

Covers the farce that building regulation in Ireland is.

therightangle

As homeowners will know, the lenders giving out the mortgages are also required to send a surveyor but during those busy boom years, that surveyor was more akin to a valuer. His or her job could be completed by merely driving by the complex in Donaghmede to check that ‘yes, it exists; yes, it should be priced at market rates’.

Its worse than that in my experience. The lending institution only send a valuer, who may not be a surveyor.

Any building surveyor hired is at the apartment buyers option and the lending institution couldnt care less about this side of it as it is for the buyers peace of mind only.