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Suckler Cow - Fall In Numbers

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Comments

  • #102
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    reilig wrote: »
    We stopped milking in 1993, sold the milk quota and bought 60 acres of land joining our own. All of our heifers were our own breeding from our own dairy herd at that time. Mostly Lim, HE and CH. Initially we bred aa's but moved to a LIM bull after 3 years and we had a lot of heifers off him - all of which could be linked back to the dairy herd. Currently 1/3 of the cows are Lim and most would be 3/4 or 7/8 lim - many are black and we breed BB of as many of them as possible to AI and the stock bull mops up the rest. 1/3 are CH - again 3/4 or 7/8 bred. Most run to the stock bull (CH). We then have some CHxLIM and LIMxCH cows. Finally, in recent years we have kept some of our BB's for breeding and we run them with the CH bull or we use LIm AI on them. They

    All of our cows are small enough in comparison to some of the cows that I have seen at BTAP meetings, but the vast majority can be traced back to a milk line and I think that is very important.

    So whats the plan when the milk line is bred out ? Do you have confidence that AI bulls with high maternal/milk figures will be good enough to replace the dairy influence in your current herd ?
    I would be thinking of picking a few right good limos and putting them to a right milky shorthorn for replacements and taking a slight hit on the bull calves that come along , I just notice too many limo/ch cows that dont have the milk despite throwing a good calf .
    Sorry for all the questions , but I reckon your land type is pretty similar to our own here and Im always throwing plans around my head to see what I will eventually settle down with .


  • #103
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    moy83 wrote: »
    So whats the plan when the milk line is bred out ? Do you have confidence that AI bulls with high maternal/milk figures will be good enough to replace the dairy influence in your current herd ?
    I would be thinking of picking a few right good limos and putting them to a right milky shorthorn for replacements and taking a slight hit on the bull calves that come along , I just notice too many limo/ch cows that dont have the milk despite throwing a good calf .
    Sorry for all the questions , but I reckon your land type is pretty similar to our own here and Im always throwing plans around my head to see what I will eventually settle down with .

    We would regular put ai on our best cows hoping for a heifer for a replacement. When choosing a straw we would be looking for something with over 4kg in Daughter Milk performance if we can.


  • #104
    Lastin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭Lastin


    pakalasa wrote: »
    I keep saying this, but it bugs the hell out of me when I hear a Gross Profit being quoted. It should be possible to at least quote national average fixed costs, like depreciation on sheds, machinery, fencing, insurance etc. At least then it would give a more realistic picture of the bottom line. Quoting a figure of €1000 Gross Margin / Hectare is a complete joke... and there's the farmer in the picture with a shiny new tractor and slatted shed in the background.
    If your buissness cannot afford to re invest in it self you are in trouble


  • #105
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Lastin wrote: »
    If your buissness cannot afford to re invest in it self you are in trouble

    I don't think that's what he was saying. My understanding of what he is saying is that net profit can be made to look very low by investing in things that you don't actually need to run the farm like new tractors or machines.


  • #106
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Found this today and thought it was apt

    1240462_730720360276725_1059738395_n_zps08fe3bbc.jpg


  • #107
    limo_100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭limo_100


    I think that the dairy farmers could be doing a lot more to help out the suckler farmers. I was at a good few calf sales this year and i have to i was disappointed with the quality of calves for sale, i mean dont get me wrong there was some great calves for the british friesian cows but the were fairly scarce. I'm not having a go at the friesian bulls i understand they are a byproduct from the dairy heard. I seen seen blues, limousins, blacks, whiteheads, simmentals, and even some charolais bred from the holstein cows that is they were kept i think they would be far to tall and narrow and hard fed to make good sucklers. It would be nice to have a good selection of heifer calves from british friesian cows imo. The british friesian cows are some of the best cows i have ever seen to bred calves an uncle of mind milks and he keeps nearly all british friesian cows and he hasn't had to take less then €450 in 2 years for calves when crossed with the beef bulls. He got €650 this spring for a 3 week old belgium blue bull calf. He also has 2 holstein cows and this year they had blue calves and he only got 200 or on there for them.That's my 2 cents worth maybe no one agrees with but what can you do.


  • #108
    limo_100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭limo_100


    reilig wrote: »
    We would regular put ai on our best cows hoping for a heifer for a replacement. When choosing a straw we would be looking for something with over 4kg in Daughter Milk performance if we can.

    reilig i see that figure on the bulls and never no how to read it whats the breakdown of it??


  • #109
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    limo_100 wrote: »
    reilig i see that figure on the bulls and never no how to read it whats the breakdown of it??

    Basically the average for bulls across all breeds is something like -1. So anything above that is better than average. Some bulls go as high as +8 and they would be considered exceptional for milk.


  • #110
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    reilig wrote: »
    I don't think that's what he was saying. My understanding of what he is saying is that net profit can be made to look very low by investing in things that you don't actually need to run the farm like new tractors or machines.
    The point I was making was there is a real cost associated with sheds, machinery. I'm not talking about unecessary overspending on these, but what is required to run the farm. Tractors, slatted sheds are huge investments for farmers and to not include the cost of these is just crazy. Granted the real cost is the depreciation of these, which can be very low.
    Why not just include say a national average value for these? It's the bottom line that counts. It could give a more realistic picture of what real income can be generated on a farm.


  • #111
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    pakalasa wrote: »
    The point I was making was there is a real cost associated with sheds, machinery. I'm not talking about unecessary overspending on these, but what is required to run the farm. Tractors, slatted sheds are huge investments for farmers and to not include the cost of these is just crazy. Granted the real cost is the depreciation of these, which can be very low.
    Why not just include say a national average value for these? It's the bottom line that counts. It could give a more realistic picture of what real income can be generated on a farm.

    I thnk gross figures are more useful.. then each man can tot up his expences and figure out how the enterprise might work for them..

    Having a notional figure is dangerous, lads with no idea of costs/accounting will just take this to be fact and plough on - many may have much higer costs without knowing it..


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  • #112
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Looks like the factories were reading this thread and decided to pull the price of cull cows to try discourage us from culling too many:rolleyes:

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #113
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Looks like the factories were reading this thread and decided to pull the price of cull cows to try discourage us from culling too many:rolleyes:
    No matter... lots just weren't ran with the bull so will be empty now anyway.


  • #114
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    bbam wrote: »
    No matter... lots just weren't ran with the bull so will be empty now anyway.

    The amount that were ran with the bull and are still empty is up by almost 15% this year too!


  • #115
    Toplink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Toplink


    reilig wrote: »
    The amount that were ran with the bull and are still empty is up by almost 15% this year too!


    Ouch!

    Change of bull? Mineral deficiency?


  • #116
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Toplink wrote: »
    Ouch!

    Change of bull? Mineral deficiency?

    We're ok. It was scanner man that gave me that figure.


  • #117
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    reilig wrote: »
    The amount that were ran with the bull and are still empty is up by almost 15% this year too!

    Funny.
    Last year lads weree blaming the poor weather and leached minerals.
    I'd have thought cows were in better shape after this summer. Or
    Is this a carry over of last winters poor feeding??


  • #118
    limo_100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭limo_100


    scanned ours at the weekend very good results 100% in calf so no culls for me this year at least the new bull has put a good hole in his price. But also did all the cows this year with all-sure minerals so maybe that has helped them as well i dont no but the cows havnt seen the cows in as good a shape in a long time.


  • #119
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    limo_100 wrote: »
    I think that the dairy farmers could be doing a lot more to help out the suckler farmers. I was at a good few calf sales this year and i have to i was disappointed with the quality of calves for sale, i mean dont get me wrong there was some great calves for the british friesian cows but the were fairly scarce. I'm not having a go at the friesian bulls i understand they are a byproduct from the dairy heard. I seen seen blues, limousins, blacks, whiteheads, simmentals, and even some charolais bred from the holstein cows that is they were kept i think they would be far to tall and narrow and hard fed to make good sucklers. It would be nice to have a good selection of heifer calves from british friesian cows imo. The british friesian cows are some of the best cows i have ever seen to bred calves an uncle of mind milks and he keeps nearly all british friesian cows and he hasn't had to take less then €450 in 2 years for calves when crossed with the beef bulls. He got €650 this spring for a 3 week old belgium blue bull calf. He also has 2 holstein cows and this year they had blue calves and he only got 200 or on there for them.That's my 2 cents worth maybe no one agrees with but what can you do.

    An uncle of mine would be in full agreement with you. He's been in our yard more than once bemoaning the lack of suitable Jan/Feb born beef cross heifers for replacements for his sucklers. He can't understand why the dairy farmers aren't thinking more about their beef farmers neighbours instead of selfishly serving all of their early calving cows and heifers to dairy breeds. This lack of common courtesy really galls him.:rolleyes:


  • #120
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    There's at least one place going against the trend. A neighbour of ours lost a large area of conacre this year (130+ acres). The landlord is putting up a unit to accomodate 150 sucklers and followers at the moment and was taking back the land my neighbour had rented and a couple of other parcels for the cows.


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  • #121
    Juniorhurler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭Juniorhurler


    freedominacup wrote: »
    There's at least one place going against the trend. A neighbour of ours lost a large area of conacre this year (130+ acres). The landlord is putting up a unit to accomodate 150 sucklers and followers at the moment and was taking back the land my neighbour had rented and a couple of other parcels for the cows.

    Either a brave or a foolish man. Minimum €500 a cow comes to €75,000 without the part for the followers. He would want to have absolutely no debts on the land at all to see any return in the near future.


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