A Solicitor Should Have A House That Accords With His Status In Society?

Lbeard

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/09/10/a-solicitor-should-have-a-house-that-accords-with-his-status-in-society/


“In practice, the PIP will also have to assess the type of house that might be needed for a professional person such as a solicitor, accountant or a hospital consultant as opposed to a house that’s needed by someone who is in the PAYE sector for example,

tricky D

Simple case of over-inflated and disproportionate sense of self-importance sadly still prevalent today with some people in some professions. In the mean time, most of us in other professions are busy getting on with the 21st century.

coylemj

Lbeard wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/09/10/a-solicitor-should-have-a-house-that-accords-with-his-status-in-society/


“In practice, the PIP will also have to assess the type of house that might be needed for a professional person such as a solicitor, accountant or a hospital consultant as opposed to a house that’s needed by someone who is in the PAYE sector for example,

Which is complete and utter nonsense since none of those professions typically meet clients/patients in their own houses so who gives a XXXX if they live in tin shacks?

Lbeard

tricky D wrote: »

Simple case of over-inflated and disproportionate sense of self-importance sadly still prevalent today with some people in some professions.

No, I'm sure he meant it deadly seriously. That not living in the right house in South County Dublin, will have an adverse effect on a solicitor's and even a hospital consultant's ability to earn.

Like Michael Murphy, the president of UCC justifying his salary increase in that now that he had a bigger job, he needed a bigger house.

It's not just an over-inflated sense of self-worth. If they each see each other like this, and they control who gets what, then they're in charge. It's absurd listening to Ivan Yates pleading poverty, when they didn't endorse a penny of his pension, which is 4 grand a month. And now he needs more money.

In the mean time, most of us in other professions are busy getting on with the 21st century.

The 21st as it stands is quite bleak.

Lbeard

coylemj wrote: »

Which is complete and utter nonsense since none of those professions typically meet clients/patients in their own houses so who gives a XXXX if they live in tin shacks?

With the consultant its' not their patients. There's huge snobbery in the senior ranks of the Irish health system. And all the top dogs in the administration who have no medical qualifications are all the same class of dog dumplings - conservative, corpulent, geriatric looking facial tissue by their early 20s (that weird thing of having to look like an old man when they're young), married to some other knob, and straight into the big house - and big job. Our universities are the same.

Snobs will only do business with snob solicitors.

johnnyskeleton

I'm just glad that my accomodation is not reflective of how society views me! I'd hate to live under a rock eating pot noodles (at least, whenever I run out of dog food anyway).

On a more serious note, I assume he was making the point that when it comes to personal bankruptsy your work and family needs can be taken into account. So a medium to large house for a family of five is reasonable, but not for a single person, a jeep is necessary for a builder, but not for someone who works from home etc.

The fact that he suggested that solicitors, accountants etc are entitled to a better house is just an ill thought out comment.

My own view is that all this personal insolvency lark will come to nothing, as anyone in serious trouble will wait for better bankruptsy terms or will try to brazen it out. It is really only of benefit to people who owe a small amount that they don't want to pay and whose creditors are happy to accept pence in the pound because they themselves are also insolvent.

coylemj

Grovelling apology now posted on his website...

I would like to acknowledge and sincerely apologise for the hurt and distress that my comments to RTE have undoubtedly caused.

Simply it was not my intention to offend.

In particular, it was not my intention to create a distinction between so called professional classes and PAYE workers nor appear to further the causes of a particular debtor type.

I believe that every person has a passionate concern to retain their family home.

I fully appreciate the distress that financial difficulties cause any one, no matter what their financial circumstances may be.

I fully and unreservedly apologise for my comments.

Jim Stafford

10 September 2013

http://www.frielstafford.ie/

Jack Kyle

Incredible comments really.

This whole PIP / Insolvency mechanism is a joke. A system for professionals to make money from people who are by definition Donald Ducked.

Trust us to come up with a ludicrously complicated and ineffective "solution" to the problem...what's the old saying..."a camel is a horse designed by a committee"?

Mike 1972

someone who is in the PAYE sector for example[/B],

Are soliciters not liable for PAYE ?

Lots of very wealthy people are on PAYE.

Jack Kyle

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are soliciters not liable for PAYE ?

Lots of very wealthy people are on PAYE.

Senior ones would generally be self employed.

The term PAYE is being used loosely to mean "employee".

It's all archaic nonsense though. Who makes more dough...a lowly PAYE worker in Google or a self employed solicitor that doesn't work in a medium to large sized firm?

Lbeard

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm just glad that my accomodation is not reflective of how society views me! I'd hate to live under a rock eating pot noodles (at least, whenever I run out of dog food anyway).

Depends on what part of society. Stafford would like to see you living in a palace, with Nubian hand maidens peeling you grapes. Some sections may not be pleased at your whole living business.

For such a small country we have a complex social scene. Just a few minutes back I walked past Jim Staffords office - I didn't give in to any temptations (I can take my time)

On a more serious note, I assume he was making the point that when it comes to personal bankruptsy your work and family needs can be taken into account. So a medium to large house for a family of five is reasonable, but not for a single person, a jeep is necessary for a builder, but not for someone who works from home etc.

Maybe you're right....Room for tools of the trade kind of thing.......I'll just check the transcript again.

so that, as a PIP, I would be making a very strong case, for example, that a solicitor should have a bigger house that accords with his professional status in society so that his neighbours and clients can see that, yes, this person is a good solicitor who’s is living in a good house etc. etc.”

Ooops.

The fact that he suggested that solicitors, accountants etc are entitled to a better house is just an ill thought out comment.

You mean he thought he was speaking on an RTE radio channel exclusively available to solicitors and accountants, etc.........And PAYE workers were listening to a different radio station.

My own view is that all this personal insolvency lark will come to nothing, as anyone in serious trouble will wait for better bankruptsy terms or will try to brazen it out.

When will this ever end.

It is really only of benefit to people who owe a small amount that they don't want to pay and whose creditors are happy to accept pence in the pound because they themselves are also insolvent.

I don't think anyone knows what it is. Jim Stafford has a link for it on his website, but no document as of yet.

Lbeard

coylemj wrote: »

Grovelling apology now posted on his website...

They always grovel.......When they've walked themselves into an ass kicking.

Take it like a man Jim.

wexie

coylemj wrote: »

Grovelling apology now posted on his website...

Said groveling apology now also posted on the AH thread here although I very much suspect it may not be the man himself.

Bepolite

I'd have more respect for the, admittadly, idiotic position if he's atleast have stood over it. That said it's easy to say what you actually mean under preasure.

Lbeard

Jack Kyle wrote: »

The term PAYE is being used loosely to mean "employee".

You mean... being used loosely to mean "scum"

It's all archaic nonsense though. Who makes more dough...a lowly PAYE worker in Google or a self employed solicitor that doesn't work in a medium to large sized firm?

I know people working for Google, they're not on rockstar wages. Wages in the IT sector are not really that high.

Jack Kyle

Lbeard wrote: »

You mean... being used loosely to mean "scum"



I know people working for Google, they're not on rockstar wages. Wages in the IT sector are not really that high.

I'm not talking about rockstar wages though. I mean salaries in the €60k to €100k range.

johnnyskeleton

Lbeard wrote: »

Depends on what part of society. Stafford would like to see you living in a palace, with Nubian hand maidens peeling you grapes.

I'd prefer if they didn't peel the grapes to be honest, the skin has all the flavour.

Maybe you're right....Room for tools of the trade kind of thing.......I'll just check the transcript again.
....
You mean he thought he was speaking on an RTE radio channel exclusively available to solicitors and accountants, etc.

He was explaining the fact that there will be no hard and fast rules regarding what is an acceptable family home as it will depends on circumstances and chose a crazy example. He probably should have thought about the scheme a bit more before going on the radio but if you want to turn it into a big conspiracy theory then go right ahead.

Jack Kyle

I suspect that he was just overwhelmed at being on the radio and spewed rubbish that he doesn't believe.

I saw him on tv and he looked nervous.

More a case of "brain into neutral and mouth into overdrive" I'd say.

Lbeard

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

He was explaining the fact that there will be no hard and fast rules regarding what is an acceptable family home as it will depends on circumstances and chose a crazy example.

No. It's not a crazy example..It just sounds crazy when someone comes out and says it. It is how things work. It is a cultural reason why people go and buy houses that are ludicrously expensive. Social status can mean social inclusion or social exclusion - economic inclusion or economic exclusion.

I bet this is the argument he would make in insolvency arrangements - "If my client loses his big house he will socially and economically excluded, end up in council tenement somewhere on de nordside, and no one will hire him, you'll never see a penny owed to you"

He probably should have thought about the scheme a bit more before going on the radio

Thinking may not be his thing.

but if you want to turn it into a big conspiracy theory then go right ahead.

a solicitor should have a bigger house that accords with his professional status in society so that his neighbours and clients can see that, yes, this person is a good solicitor who’s is living in a good house etc. etc.”

You'd swear it's like I'm putting words in Jim's mouths.

Though thinking about it, he may have very deliberately used those terms to drum up business for himself. "I can keep you in your palace" sort of thing.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

johnnyskeleton

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Are insolvent solicitors even allowed to practice? Bankrupt ones?

Practice yes, own their own firm or be a partner - not if they're bankrupt.

Pro Hoc Vice

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Practice yes, own their own firm or be a partner - not if they're bankrupt.

I thought suspension was automatic, unless lifted by Law Society or Chief Justice.

johnnyskeleton

infosys wrote: »

I thought suspension was automatic, unless lifted by Law Society or Chief Justice.

I don't think they ever let you have your own firm or be a partner if you're an in discharged bankrupt.

Lbeard

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Practice yes, own their own firm or be a partner - not if they're bankrupt.

Teach English as a Foreign Language?

Victor

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

On a more serious note, I assume he was making the point that when it comes to personal bankruptsy your work and family needs can be taken into account. So a medium to large house for a family of five is reasonable, but not for a single person, a jeep is necessary for a builder, but not for someone who works from home etc.

I disagree. It was very much a matter of keeping up appearances. His point was along the lines of 'Who would ever employ a solicitor who lives in a 2-bed in Ballyfermot and cycles to work?' I can understand the point to some degree, but if someone is claiming legal protection, then that isn't something you should be entitled to.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm just glad that my accomodation is not reflective of how society views me! I'd hate to live under a rock eating pot noodles (at least, whenever I run out of dog food anyway).

Look, just get a job in Friel Stafford, using a nice D4/D6 address and then after 2 years, let them know than you have been living in wheely bin in the Four Courts and Jim will make sure that you are provided with a nice big house, a decent BMW and a bit of posh to show off at Friday drinkies.

Lbeard wrote: »

Teach English as a Foreign Language?

Drinks beer.

Lbeard

Lbeard wrote: »

Teach English as a Foreign Language?

I love this country.......It's just a non-stop surrealist situation comedy that just writes itself.

Or am I in a padded cell somewhere.....not responding to medication.

ferretone

Possibly also a hedge around the fact that the banks will likely see that they aren't going to realise much of their investment from putting those mansions on the market in the short- to medium-term, compared to the high demand that is clearly there for starter- and mid-range-homes in our cities. Plenty of middle-income PAYE workers living in those, and feeling the pinch hard.

Ken.

I hereby declare myself solicitor ken dcl,lld,dphill,phd,llm,bcl,cpe. Now where do I get my free house at.

Lbeard

ken wrote: »

I hereby declare myself solicitor ken dcl,lld,dphill,phd,llm,bcl,cpe. Now where do I get my free house at.

You working class people have such a wonderful sense of humour. Solicitor, is it.

I'd say you're doing quite well for where you're living now. Getting lots of work from your neighbours. They mightn't make the society pages of the Independent, you know ladies day at the Galway races, but dere faces are plastered all over de evenin herald day in day out. You have your own little gold mine there.

Free houses are for those who deserve them.

nuac

I thought Staffords remarks about solicitors' houses were wrong and OTT.

Many solicitors live in relatively modest houses.

Lbeard

nuac wrote: »

I thought Staffords remarks about solicitors' houses were wrong and OTT.

I'm not related to Stafford, but I am related to people like in, people in that whole set. (Though, I was cast out for some unspecified sin - which could be I'm just not like them, and that's enough. I think as my father puts it - behind my back of course - 'not having the right demeanor'). It's like this, if what Stafford said made your stomach turn a little, imagine this is what they talk like all the time - incessantly - when they don't believe any low income PAYE workers, or non-traditional-professionals can hear them.

They're worse than Ross O'Carroll-Kelly characters - far worse. Sickening and crazy sounding - the principal of a large non-fee paying school I know, refers to his students as the dirt - goes on rants about how many of them are the children of single mothers - I couldn't say more without identifying him. Hates single mothers, but fiercely defends poor priests, some friends of his even, who had the misfortune of making a few mistakes - "ah sure they were tormenting him"(Whatever that means, I was never quite sure - imagine trying to eat a meal with that coming out of them)

They do believe they're entitled to free houses. That's why they loaded themselves up with speculative mortgages - that they had no concern as to who would have to settle. PAYE workers (code for low income people) were going to give them free houses - they were going to forced to by clever social and economic exclusion. They're even disgusted that PAYE workers earn more than subsistence wages. That money should be going to them. They need it, it's not fair, working class people don't understand money. And this is a sickening line that they use; working class people don't understand money, money is not for spending, it's for business. And of course what they mean by business is buying big houses in exclusive neighbourhoods, in accordance with their social status, so their neighbours can see they're a good solicitor, accountant, etc.

This is everything that went wrong. They are everything that is wrong with everything.

Many solicitors live in relatively modest houses.

Relatively.......What do you mean by, relatively?........Why couldn't you just say modest?

A funny thing about those grand houses, and how the young "professionals" got caught out. Many of the older professionals bought those houses in the 80s for a song, when you couldn't give them away - you would weep if you knew what some people paid for their mansions. But let us not weep, let us roar with laughter.