America's Cup

Stheno

neris wrote: »

Im surprised larry ellison didnt put himself on the crew especially for today not like larry to let an ego inflation go amiss

True, and Oracle Openworld is on this week, he'll be gloating for ages.

He is on the boat now.

miss no stars

Oh god, they're gonna subject poor Deano to another interview?!

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

Oh god, they're gonna subject poor Deano to another interview?!

Yeah, poor bastard

neris

Stheno wrote: »

True, and Oracle Openworld is on this week, he'll be gloating for ages.

He is on the boat now.

He was meant to be the main speaker at oracle world today and apparently load of people left the event when they were told larry was off watching the sailing

dloob

I suppose New Zealand did do better than they were expected to before the races started.

HeidiHeidi

dloob wrote: »

I suppose New Zealand did do better than they were expected to before the races started.

That's the worst of backhanded compliment! (not directed at you saying that, btw, but just how they might see it)

It might have been easier if they'd been whitewashed.

neris

miss no stars wrote: »

Oh god, they're gonna subject poor Deano to another interview?!

Deano looks like hes sheding a few tears

Stheno

neris wrote: »

He was meant to be the main speaker at oracle world today and apparently load of people left the event when they were told larry was off watching the sailing

He did it early Tuesday instead but there's an article here about it
http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-ellison-skips-keynote-speech-2013-9

Is it possibly Deanos last chance to helm an AC team?

dloob

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

That's the worst of backhanded compliment! (not directed at you saying that, btw, but just how they might see it)

It might have been easier if they'd been whitewashed.

Yeah would have been better to lose easily not be on the cusp for so long and have it taken away.
Those cancelled races that they were leading are going to weigh heavy on them.

neris

The americas cup hasnt got a mention on the sports shows over here mainly off the ball & the 2fm show

Stheno

If Sky Sports don't stop on about how Ben Ainslie saved Oracle I might scream

HeidiHeidi

neris wrote: »

The americas cup hasnt got a mention on the sports shows over here mainly off the ball & the 2fm show

It made it (very briefly) onto the 6 o'clock news this evening.

Stheno wrote: »

If Sky Sports don't stop on about how Ben Ainslie saved Oracle I might scream

That's exactly what I was afraid of. We'll never hear the end of it! And it's not Ben Ainslie.... it's SIR Ben Ainslie to you.... in the most reverential of tones!

Stheno

neris wrote: »

The americas cup hasnt got a mention on the sports shows over here mainly off the ball & the 2fm show

The IT covered it a couple of times.

Given the sheer amount of money (how much was spent by each team? 50 million plus?) it's the pinnacle of elite sport in that sense!

neris

if they get costs down the next cup could be much better. at 100 million or abouts a campaign it puts an awful lot of countries out of it. the americas cup is more fun when theres more teams in the challenger series. they shoul dtry get a few american teams to recreate the defender round robins

Stheno

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

That's exactly what I was afraid of. We'll never hear the end of it! And it's not Ben Ainslie.... it's SIR Ben Ainslie to you.... in the most reverential of tones!

So true They are still on about him half an hour later!

Does it all come down to the amount of manpower/money that Ellison had to throw at continually improving the boat, and the team he had?

One small (very small) positive for me is that my OH found it enthralling and really enjoyed it.

HeidiHeidi

Two chances of a megalomaniac like Ellison doing a budget version, though, so that more people can challenge him.

Slim, and None, and None's on holidays.

Stheno

neris wrote: »

if they get costs down the next cup could be much better. at 100 million or abouts a campaign it puts an awful lot of countries out of it. the americas cup is more fun when theres more teams in the challenger series. they shoul dtry get a few american teams to recreate the defender round robins

I was reading something the other day, don't know what, but it talked about the "next generation" of the AC72s and how they have lowered the wingsail height but engineered it differently to go even faster.

I now can't find it on google

Has anyone come across this? It was like the wingsail was lower but wider so more stable, but faster?

HeidiHeidi

Stheno wrote: »

I was reading something the other day, don't know what, but it talked about the "next generation" of the AC72s and how they have lowered the wingsail height but engineered it differently to go even faster.

I now can't find it on google

Has anyone come across this? It was like the wingsail was lower but wider so more stable, but faster?

Oh gawd :eek:

I'm going to start a Campaign for Real Boats in the Americas Cup (CARBAC).... I'll get in touch with CAMRA in the UK for inspiration, and a few pints to drown my old-fashioned, fuddy-duddy sorrows!!!

**shuffles off muttering grumpily to find youtube videos of PROPER boat racing**

miss no stars

Jesus lads, I feel like I need to go for after racing pints and a proper debrief.

Stheno

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

**shuffles off muttering grumpily to find youtube videos of PROPER boat racing**

I suggest topaz's with jib, or Laser Vagos on spinnys

THey have left poor Deano alone thank goodness.

HeidiHeidi

miss no stars wrote: »

Jesus lads, I feel like I need to go for after racing pints and a proper debrief.

neris

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Oh gawd :eek:

I'm going to start a Campaign for Real Boats in the Americas Cup (CARBAC).... I'll get in touch with CAMRA in the UK for inspiration, and a few pints to drown my old-fashioned, fuddy-duddy sorrows!!!

**shuffles off muttering grumpily to find youtube videos of PROPER boat racing**

theres only one number to call when a situation like change arises and you long for the good aul days. 1850715815 and ask for joe. If a chap called Damian answers just start talking about tractors, cow **** or rural life

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

Jesus lads, I feel like I need to go for after racing pints and a proper debrief.

I am watching the replay having a glass of wine, the jubilation of the Oracle team when they crossed that line, whilst bittersweet at the first viewing, just makes the fact that for 7 races, they went out there knowing it was do or die, and did it.

That takes some serious teamwork, ambition, and self belief.

And the scene when both boats applaud each other is very nice.

Stheno

They seem to have had the good grace to leave Deano alone.

I wonder will he have to speak at the presentation? least if he does, he's had a bit of time to compose himself.

neris

can you imagine the uproar that would be made in the media here if 1 wealthy person or group got together to put an irish syndicate together for the americas cup. joe higgins would explode with rage over the cost, theyd be picking bits of him off the dail chamber for the next year

Stheno

Have to applaud the graciousness of Ray Davies, and lovely to hear the Sky Sports commentators comment on that, and their overall attitude throughout the regatta.

edit: Fair play to Dean Barker for that interview, just having the guts to show up for it must have hurt.

Don't they look strange dressed as "normal people"?

I suffer this all the time, I "know" people in their sailing clothes/wetsuits, and struggle to correlate it to them in regular clothes

@ neris, we are constantly hosting expensive events, I'd love to know the ROI on the Gathering tbh!

Lovely to see all the family members out for the teams

neris

Stheno wrote: »

@ neris, we are constantly hosting expensive events, I'd love to know the ROI on the Gathering tbh!

i was thinking more of the cost of creating a team and the money that private individuals and companies would have to put up or as joe might say himself "the ostentaious display of wealth by a golden circle of bankers & developers to race a sailboat while the proletariat and working people of Ireland starve and freeze in their negative equity homes"

neris

who the hell are the idiot commentators/interviewers? youd swear new zealand were some backward country that just found out about boats and were the dark horses for this event that theyd never been in before

pedroeibar1

I know several people who are in negative equity on their boats.

Stheno

I have to confess, and it appears neris shares it to a personal dislike of Larry Ellison.

My personal dislike of him is due to his attitude to women (of which I am one) and some of the people he has hired, who through various channels I have had to work with.

It was ultimately a great regatta, but I question if it wasn't influenced by money, was not started on unequal grounds etc

My OH is gutted and says he will never watch it again.

I'll keep track over the next few years as to what will be next and look forward to the next cup, I used play rugby and now sail (as a beginner) and love the etiquette of applauding others, and being mannerly etc, rugby was much more violent , but it would be nice if the LVC was more inclusive and there was more opportunity.

I'd worry that Ellison with his megalomia will fail to realise that this Americas cup cost a life in the interest of reaching the boundaries of a sport ( and when you think 11 people are on each boat, that's a fairly high fatality rate for any sport), and restrict it further.

I think NZ are an absolute credit in losing and admire them (they still look like the borg transformed into humans) and congratulate Oracle (as in the sailing team and NOT Ellison) for achieving what they did.

@ Neris I agree, my OH dislikes the sport of sailing, thinks it dangerous, would never go out on a boat, and up until tonight, he was in thrall to the Americas Cup and gunning for NZ, without question (we have sky sports) he arranged his evenings to watch it, he has sailing friends who now slag him that he is almost a sailor.

He read up a bit and decided it's money that decided it, and having gotten into it for weeks, is now very disillusioned.

He is however convinced that Jimmy Spithill is Max Headroom

Ellison is not introduced on stage, which is a small grace.

neris

If you want a good read on the americas cup and a bit of history this is book is well worth a read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sail-Century-Americas-Cup-1987/dp/0540073245/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380148354&sr=1-14&keywords=sail+of+the+century

Stheno

As an ancient forty year old beginner to sailing, I applaud Spithill for winning, not once but twice at the age of 34.

Still loving ENTZ incredibly gracious team throughout

I admit my dislike of Larry flavoured my dislike of the arrogance of Spithill declaring they could come back.

What opinions of the UK mounting a challenge and getting the backing to AC for AC 2017?

neris

Stheno wrote: »

As an ancient forty year old beginner to sailing, I applaud Spithill for winning, not once but twice at the age of 34.

Still loving ENTZ incredibly gracious team throughout

I admit my dislike of Larry flavoured my dislike of the arrogance of Spithill declaring they could come back.

What opinions of the UK mounting a challenge and getting the backing to AC for AC 2017?

The brits put a team out in auckland in the early 2000s but were poorly funded & they had same issue trying to put a team out for this one. One guy commited to pay up if others did but no one would. The brits also would lack talent if ainsles at oracle & percy at artemis.

miss no stars

I think, even if you take the money out of the equation, Oracle have been a superb team - sailors and shore crew. They kept fighting, kept pushing, kept going back to the drawing board and kept getting out early to practice and all that work paid off. Sure, the money came from Larry Ellison. But the boat and the sailing? That was the team and they deserve their glory and their win.

For the record, at heart I really did want ETNZ to win. I was really curious as to where they'd bring the event from the AC72s. I can't help but feel that the next cup has suffered because Oracle won as LE will want to hang on to his AC72 concept, but they were much better on the water. Let's not forget, the actual score was 11-8.

Cookie_Monster

And so it starts here in NZ, "Oracle only started winning once the fancy electronic trimming system went in"...

Commentator spent the entire of the last race bitching about it.

miss no stars

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

And so it starts here in NZ, "Oracle only started winning once the fancy electronic trimming system went in"...

Commentator spent the entire of the last race bitching about it.

Oracle also got their game together avoided making unnecessarily stupid manoeuvres and losing starts drastically.

neris

Anything good on tv tonight around 9? Cold turkey time

dloob

miss no stars wrote: »

Oracle also got their game together avoided making unnecessarily stupid manoeuvres and losing starts drastically.

They seemed to really improve their upwind speed too.
Quicker up on the foils and better top speed.
Still if its legal its legal.

neris

 Why are women attracted to Kiwi sailors? Because they can spend two weeks on top and still not come first.

How do you put a Champagne cork back in a bottle? Ask a Kiwi

Stheno

neris wrote: »

 Why are women attracted to Kiwi sailors? Because they can spend two weeks on top and still not come first.

How do you put a Champagne cork back in a bottle? Ask a Kiwi

Did you see the top ten tweets from NZ after the loss?

It ended with the prime minister tweeting "bugger"

On a serious note there have been press articles from both Team NZ and USA asking people to not crucify Dean Barker.

And there is plenty of speculation that ENTZ are going to mount a legal challenge to Oracles stability system

Cookie_Monster

Stheno wrote: »

And there is plenty of speculation that ENTZ are going to mount a legal challenge to Oracles stability system

They have already confirmed they will not mount any challenge.

neris

Looks like the Aussies have offered to be the challenger of record for the next cup and have lodged the challenge with oracle. No details on boats year or venue. Could be off the barrier reef in two americas cup.

HeidiHeidi

So how does the whole thing work? (I'm still playing catch-up!)

USA win. Someone, somewhere steps up and says "we'll take you on". They become the "challenger of record". Are there any criteria to be fulfilled for this, or could, say, Ireland do that? (in our dreams, obviously! but just in principle?)

Then where does the LV Cup come into it? Do other countries who didn't get in in time to be the challenger of record, step up to challenge the challengers? And who gets to run that?

Vexorg

Nicely explained here http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Cup

Briefly any yacht club that meets the requirements specified in the Deed of Gift (rules) has the right to challenge the yacht club that holds the Cup.

Not sure what those specific rules are.

The challengers run a selection series with the winner becoming the official challenger and competing against the defender in the America's Cup match. Since 1983, Louis Vuitton has sponsored the Louis Vuitton Cup as a prize for the winner of the challenger selection series.

neris

A club in ireland could put in an entry. Ireland as a country couldnt enter as its not an event for nations. A challenger has to give to lodge the challenge with the defender. They act as the challenger of record but other clubs/teams can challenge them to be the actual challenger for the cup which is where the l.v series comes in. There used to be up to 1995 a similar series for the defenders where teams from the defending nation (only ever been the usa and aussies) raced off to defend the cup against the winner of the l.v series. The kiwis scraped the defender trials for their cup as they thought a 2nd kiwi campaign would disadvantage their talent pool and crew numbers.

I know one of the requirements under the deed of gift was or still is that a yacht club challenging for the cup has to be on open water i:e the sea. This was an issue in 87 cup when a chicago team entered and were tod you cant race your situated on a lake to which their response was we are linked to the sea by a waterway (st lawrence waterway i think) And they got to race then when the swiss won it they moved their yacht club to valencia. The deed of gift has been changed to suit the winner over the last hundred odd years and usually a nice court case to add to the expense.

neris

interview with dean barker in new zealand

http://www.3news.co.nz/Campbell-Live-talks-to-Dean-Barker/tabid/817/articleID/315390/Default.aspx

neris

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sailing/24342956

Just an article about the Aussies being the challenger.

HeidiHeidi

neris wrote: »

interview with dean barker in new zealand

http://www.3news.co.nz/Campbell-Live-talks-to-Dean-Barker/tabid/817/articleID/315390/Default.aspx

Jaysus, he looks and sounds like a broken man :eek:

Still gorgeous though

Stheno

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Jaysus, he looks and sounds like a broken man :eek:

Still gorgeous though

Not even a week later and the team are being approached by other boats!

pedroeibar1

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Still gorgeous though

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

The gasping and groaning of the trimmers is hilarious! Worthy of the best soft porn

neris wrote: »

Whats porn?

Porn? This ......(classic porn)

Methinks you girls are suffering from withdrawal symptoms!