Coming over here taking our jobs

danotroy

mandrake04 wrote: »

I honestly wouldn't work in hospitality unless I was stuck and really had to, even then as soon as I found something more suitable I would be gone. It just doesnt appeal to me.

I only work in hospitality as I have to. I am not under any illusion that it is a glamorous profession. Sponsorship was offered to me but I do not wish to make a career out of inebriation just yet.

However in hospitality here, melbourne, at least is different from home. Whilst I am in the opinion that being a barista or bartender should be a job you do whilst in college and not a career there is great money and lifestyle to be had here. Personally I work a 32-34 hour week and I take home at a minimum 700 a week. It allows me to intern 2 days a week and I also get about 20 dollars tips on the nights I work. However the real benefits come in the huge social circle that hospitality opens up and the free booze, coffee and food that come with the "click".

hussey

danotroy wrote: »

Marky. I know you are enthusiastic about your job and fair play to you, you got sponsored in hospitality great stuff. However filling hospitality roles is not that hard. Impossible... no. If your owners are struggling to find staff then they should improve their conditions.

Actually no, there is a huge staff shortage (skilled staff that is)
if the owner of over 6 multi-hatted restaurants says he cannot find skilled staff, then I would believe him
http://www.hospitalitymagazine.com.au/accommodation/380-steak-top-chefs-stew-on-labour-shortage-insect and \
http://www.visabureau.com/australia/news/18-09-2012/celebrity-chefs-look-to-australia-visa-to-solve-staff-shortages.aspx
(I know that is 2012, but he had a recent article in goodfood too, I just can't find it)
The entire hospitality industry here is under staffed and under skilled

danotroy

hussey wrote: »

Actually no, there is a huge staff shortage (skilled staff that is)
if the owner of over 6 multi-hatted restaurants says he cannot find skilled staff, then I would believe him
http://www.hospitalitymagazine.com.au/accommodation/380-steak-top-chefs-stew-on-labour-shortage-insect and \
http://www.visabureau.com/australia/news/18-09-2012/celebrity-chefs-look-to-australia-visa-to-solve-staff-shortages.aspx
(I know that is 2012, but he had a recent article in goodfood too, I just can't find it)
The entire hospitality industry here is under staffed and under skilled

My experience is in regular hospitality i.e bars and cafes. I have little hands on knowledge of the high end eateries. But I do know many chefs/wait staff/bartenders who would not touch a job in Crown or high end waiting. Sure you get paid a premium, which is not all that much more than is on offer in regular hospitality gigs, but you sacrifice so much more in creativity/personal dress code and work attitude.

All of which do not matter in the real world but for those working in hospitality these things begin to matter.

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

sin_city

danotroy wrote: »

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

And anyone working in the shops that sell scented candles?


Come on, each individual case is different.

mandrake04

danotroy wrote: »

I only work in hospitality as I have to. I am not under any illusion that it is a glamorous profession. Sponsorship was offered to me but I do not wish to make a career out of inebriation just yet.

Well you have to do what you have to do, it not rocket science go to London or New York and most hospitality staff outside of Management tend to be migrants.
In Australia it tends to suit foreign students, backpackers and unskilled dependants of skilled PRs.

must say I am in Ireland at the moment and have noticed a big change since 2007, a lot less foreigners and more Irish in hospitality these days.

Zambia

mandrake04 wrote: »

Well you have to do what you have to do, it not rocket science go to London or New York and most hospitality staff outside of Management tend to be migrants.
In Australia it tends to suit foreign students, backpackers and unskilled dependants of skilled PRs.

must say I am in Ireland at the moment and have noticed a big change since 2007, a lot less foreigners and more Irish in hospitality these days.

The old Irish bar staff were a wonder of the western world.

Remember it used to be a 4 year apprenticeship?

ifeelill

Zambia wrote: »

The old Irish bar staff were a wonder of the western world.

Remember it used to be a 4 year apprenticeship?

4 years at least ..... Longer if you're on the other side of the bar

markymark21

danotroy wrote: »

My experience is in regular hospitality i.e bars and cafes. I have little hands on knowledge of the high end eateries. But I do know many chefs/wait staff/bartenders who would not touch a job in Crown or high end waiting. Sure you get paid a premium, which is not all that much more than is on offer in regular hospitality gigs, but you sacrifice so much more in creativity/personal dress code and work attitude.

All of which do not matter in the real world but for those working in hospitality these things begin to matter.

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

Nah Hussey is right, It is hard to get 'good' staff! Its taken me months to put together a good team in work. Finding people with a mix of work ethic, attitude, personalty and looks is tricky. I was giving people trials every week but most were duds. I get five or six CV's a day - doesn't mean they are any good though.

Anyway I didn't see that Today Tonight program but there is always going to be some resentment if 'foreigners' are getting jobs and Aussies are out of work. Bound to get worse if the un-employment rate keeps creeping up as well.

catbear

danotroy wrote: »

If a recession hits here the first people to go will be those on 457s working in hospitality, there won't be much of a staff shortage then.

When you're constantly receiving CVs it becomes very apparent that most 457s are head and shoulders above the locals in both drive and experience and that's what ultimately decides recruitment.
As the saying goes, those with get and go, get up and go!

ifeelill

markymark21 wrote: »

Anyway I didn't see that Today Tonight program but there is always going to be some resentment if 'foreigners' are getting jobs and Aussies are out of work.

I only seen the five minute clip someone linked in this thread, and it seemed like an unbiased clip, young people out of work not able to give the employer the flexibility a backpacker can, not willing to work in the conditions provided etc etc.

mandrake04

ifeelill wrote: »

I only seen the five minute clip someone linked in this thread, and it seemed like an unbiased clip, young people out of work not able to give the employer the flexibility a backpacker can, not willing to work in the conditions provided etc etc.

Farmer said that backpackers were essential to his business because harvest work is too inconsistent for young local workers, I imagine same for those in hospitality in small summers towns. Work is only seasonal and not really there during low season so unattractive to people looking full time career.

People can't really complain about it to much, the government encourages farm work and fruit picking to get the second year visa. But maybe a return to max 3 months per employer would be better as its a good compromise.

ifeelill

mandrake04 wrote: »

maybe a return to max 3 months per employer would be better as its a good compromise.

Compromise to who ? You said it yourself the conditions don't suit people looking for a career that wont change by returning to the 3 month rule

mandrake04

ifeelill wrote: »

Compromise to who ? You said it yourself the conditions don't suit people looking for a career that wont change by returning to the 3 month rule

That's right, a return to the 3 months suits better helps move backpackers on and share the work around it worked well for 30 years until they changed it and it would keep the locals from whinging. Think I might mention it to my local MP as I had a good chat to him about visas and immigration when he was asking for my vote a few weeks ago.

The Aussie

I still think it's yet to sink in for some people that it's called a Working Holiday Visa, not a "I'm here trying to get sponsored in 6 months" visa

ifeelill

mandrake04 wrote: »

That's right, a return to the 3 months suits better helps move backpackers on and share the work around

I assume you mean among other backpackers, as it has been established that these jobs dont suit locals

mandrake04 wrote: »

it would keep the locals from whinging.

Dont think it would as they would still be unemployed and the level of complexity in the reporting of the issue is simplified to such an extent that this will undoubtedly lead to the same level of resentment among the locals, all the locals will see is a bunch of backpackers who are employed while they go without and thats the issue that will shine through.

"Our people aren't getting a fair go" will be played to death by Labour and the unions while the other party will bang on about black people i mean boat people coming over swelling up the welfare ranks.

My point here is that a small change to the WHV isn't going to change how the electorate feels about immigration, and with both political parties using both forms of immigration legal and illegal to bash their political opponents its a situation thats not going to change anytime soon.

catbear

ifeelill wrote: »

Dont think it would as they would still be unemployed and the level of complexity in the reporting of the issue is simplified to such an extent that this will undoubtedly lead to the same level of resentment among the locals, all the locals will see is a bunch of backpackers who are employed while they go without and thats the issue that will shine through.
.

Which is why they need more immigrants, they're too many dumbed down local applicants.

The Aussie

catbear wrote: »

Which is why they need more immigrants, they're too many dumbed down local applicants.

Is that because the immigrants are unemployable in their own country :rolleyes:

Batgurl

The Aussie wrote: »

Is that because the immigrants are unemployable in their own country :rolleyes:

Nah its cause all the highly skilled ones like you Aussie emigrated to better countries like Ireland!!! :P there's a skills shortage since you left!

The Aussie

Batgurl wrote: »

Nah its cause all the highly skilled ones like you Aussie emigrated to better countries like Ireland!!! :P there's a skills shortage since you left!

I'm actually the reason why the construction industry collapsed, I turned up on a Monday morning, by Thursday all the work was done.



There is a good Chuck Norris joke in there somewhere :pac:

mandrake04

ifeelill wrote: »

I assume you mean among other backpackers, as it has been established that these jobs dont suit locals

Yes too many backpackers (even on here) complain about not being able to find work, if they went back to 3 month rule then it would prevent 1 backpacker from 'camping' in the same job for 6 months and let another have a better shot of getting 3 months work. WHV by its nature and small print is a holiday visa with casual work entitlements, 3 months is even more casual than 6 months.

Looking at it from the outside I think 3 months max is far fairer.

ifeelill wrote: »

Dont think it would as they would still be unemployed and the level of complexity in the reporting of the issue is simplified to such an extent that this will undoubtedly lead to the same level of resentment among the locals, all the locals will see is a bunch of backpackers who are employed while they go without and thats the issue that will shine through.

"Our people aren't getting a fair go" will be played to death by Labour and the unions while the other party will bang on about black people i mean boat people coming over swelling up the welfare ranks.

My point here is that a small change to the WHV isn't going to change how the electorate feels about immigration, and with both political parties using both forms of immigration legal and illegal to bash their political opponents its a situation thats not going to change anytime soon.

Well you are right it's all politics, but doesnt have to be negative there was problems with the 457 which most people didn't know about even the government but a bit of a shove in the right direction and they caught on to the rorts and at least tried to fix it even though it still needs tightening a bit more. Like I said the WHV worked well for 30 years on 3 months max per employer they should have left it alone for the above reasons, the 2nd year for 3 months regional work was a good idea. Government sometimes needs a bit of a shove to see these things.

ifeelill

IsaacWunder

The Aussie wrote: »

I still think it's yet to sink in for some people that it's called a Working Holiday Visa, not a "I'm here trying to get sponsored in 6 months" visa

Plenty of Aussies come to Ireland on WHVs and made money during the Celtic tiger period. The point is it's reciprocal.

The Aussie

IsaacWunder wrote: »

Plenty of Aussies come to Ireland on WHVs and made money during the Celtic tiger period. The point is it's reciprocal.

The point is that people confuse it with Sponsorship, so I fail to see your point

BTW, reciprocal implies two way :pac:.....

danotroy

markymark21 wrote: »

Nah Hussey is right, It is hard to get 'good' staff! Its taken me months to put together a good team in work. Finding people with a mix of work ethic, attitude, personalty and looks is tricky. I was giving people trials every week but most were duds. I get five or six CV's a day - doesn't mean they are any good though.

I don't understand when people say it is hard to get good staff, again I reiterate I do not wait tables in my current position. someone gets a trail they are bad do not hire them. If they show potential hire them and get them up to standard. If they are good hire them but make sure they know where they stand, just cause they are good doesn't mean they are any more valuable than the person who is new and showing potential. The company I work for and have worked for the last 2 years (Complied with the 6 month rule for those wondering) have a few venues ranging form a lounge bar that holds 100 to a live music venue that holds 750 never have any issues hiring good staff and they have in excess of 50 staff on their books. Over the course of my time with the company there have never been more than 7 backpackers working for the company. Good hospitality staff are available, in abundance, in victoria in the bar/cafe/nightclub sector.

catbear wrote: »

When you're constantly receiving CVs it becomes very apparent that most 457s are head and shoulders above the locals in both drive and experience and that's what ultimately decides recruitment.
As the saying goes, those with get and go, get up and go!

In respect to 457 holders being more driven then the locals I would imagine that anyone on a 457's would be highly driven to perform well and try to better their australian/kiwi counter parts in order to keep their job or attain a job due to the lack of longevity in their visa.

chappy79x

The Aussie wrote: »

I'm actually the reason why the construction industry collapsed, I turned up on a Monday morning, by Thursday all the work was done.



There is a good Chuck Norris joke in there somewhere :pac:

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha love it ,