Who are the candidates for the Ireland job?

keeponhurling

Also, if you take the Australia job, you are managing at the world Cup in Brazil next year. I suspect it is an ambition of many managers to manage at a World Cup.

In the Irish job it's friendlies for the next year.

LuckyLloyd

Meh, fair enough. He might illicit a short term response that carries us to Euro 2016 given the expanded qualification. Would have preferred McCarthy needless to say.

But I fail to see how anyone who wanted Trapp out on the basis of the style of play could be enthusiastic about this appointment while keeping a straight face.

cson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, fair enough. He might illicit a short term response that carries us to Euro 2016 given the expanded qualification. Would have preferred McCarthy needless to say.

But I fail to see how anyone who wanted Trapp out on the basis of the style of play could be enthusiastic about this appointment while keeping a straight face.

This is it. We don't have the players to get results against the bigger sides any other way.

I think he's looking at (a) getting us out of the group and into France for 2016 courtesy of the expansion and (b) trying to resurrect a few Jack Charlton results at the tournament putting himself in the shop window. Took a poor Irish team to the Euro's? Check. Got them to the knock outs of the Euro's? Check. Summer 2016 and Everton/WBA/Newcastle etc are looking for a new Manager? Cheque.

And that is not a typo.

cson

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Martin O' Neill is Trappatoni without the PR skills and the competence in dealing with players. Two of them are as tactically one-dimensional as each other. Why on earth anyone could want O'Neill if they wanted Trap out is beyond me.

Would be a terrible appointment. After the initial high, it'll be literally the exact same as Trappatoni, down to the way people will call for his head for his system.

Just read the last page of this thread and that jumped out at me... lolwut? :pac:

loyatemu

I'm not expecting Ireland to start playing Tiki-Taka, I'd be happy with:

• a bit more tactical flexibility
• fewer players being pointlessly sent into exile
• speaking english
• attending club games regularly

people saying "it'll end in tears" - of course it will, managers hardly ever quit voluntarily - it's ended in tears for every previous Irish manager...

ArmaniJeanss

gnfnrhead wrote: »

For the Euro's. If he makes a balls of it, we can replace him fairly quickly. If he does well, give him a new contract. Performances determine if he stays or goes.

Short term one-campaign contracts do have a potential downside as well, otherwise every association would be doing them.

Lamper.sffc

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, fair enough. He might illicit a short term response that carries us to Euro 2016 given the expanded qualification. Would have preferred McCarthy needless to say.

But I fail to see how anyone who wanted Trapp out on the basis of the style of play could be enthusiastic about this appointment while keeping a straight face.

I think you may find, it was more than just his style of play that frustrated people.

LuckyLloyd

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

I think you may find, it was more than just his style of play that frustrated people.

I know, right:

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm not expecting Ireland to start playing Tiki-Taka, I'd be happy with:

• a bit more tactical flexibility
• fewer players being pointlessly sent into exile
  
• speaking english
• attending club games regularly

people saying "it'll end in tears" - of course it will, managers hardly ever quit voluntarily - it's ended in tears for every previous Irish manager...

At least he will speak English good.

Also ye'd all want to watch out if you think O'Neill will be aggressive with his selections and bring latest flavour of the months through quickly. He'll spend the first few friendlies establishing a favoured 11 - 15 players and stick with them as much as possible.

O Neill - limited manager who likes hoof ball.


Can't stand him

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I know, right:



At least he will speak English good.

Also ye'd all want to watch out if you think O'Neill will be aggressive with his selections and bring latest flavour of the months through quickly. He'll spend the first few friendlies establishing a favoured 11 - 15 players and stick with them as much as possible.

A simplistic and inaccurate appraisal of O'Neill's management skills and style, typical of a frankly weird cohort on these pages that seem to have something against O'Neill and have had it in for him for years.

He is not tactically inflexible. He will try to establish a solid core team but he wont send players into exile like Trap did and will bring in players when he sees fit. This is international football and the nature of international football may indeed suit his particular skill set at this stage of his career perfectly. He'll get the best of out of the players we have and he'll send them on to the pitch fearing no-one that they come up against.

I'm looking forward to his appointment if it happens, and I know that sensible, knowledgeable observors of the game in Ireland will welcome his appointment.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

A simplistic and inaccurate appraisal of O'Neill's management skills and style, typical of a frankly weird cohort on these pages that seem to have something against O'Neill and have had it in for him for years.

He is not tactically inflexible. He will try to establish a solid core team but he wont send players into exile like Trap did and will bring in players when he sees fit. This is international football and the nature of international football may indeed suit his particular skill set at this stage of his career perfectly. He'll get the best of out of the players we have and he'll send them on to the pitch fearing no-one that they come up against.

I'm looking forward to his appointment if it happens, and I know that sensible, knowledgeable observors of the game in Ireland will welcome his appointment.

There is a significant Aston Villa following on this forum. Reading their team thread during O'Neillball was an interesting experience.

O' Neill IS tactically inflexible. He ISN'T one to amend his starting 11 if he can avoid it. He is also exceptionally poor in the transfer market but that's neither here or there for this role obviously.

He's clearly is a brilliant motivator and knows how to put his arm around players. But he has lost his crutch on the training ground and is coming off the worst managerial stint in his career to date.

You have a vested interest in this in some way or another and that's cool. Be wary though, if his initial surge wears off too quickly and qualification is not attained the Irish public and media will savage him like the last three managers.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There is a significant Aston Villa following on this forum. Reading their team thread during O'Neillball was an interesting experience.

O' Neill IS tactically inflexible. He ISN'T one to amend his starting 11 if he can avoid it. He is also exceptionally poor in the transfer market but that's neither here or there for this role obviously.

He's clearly is a brilliant motivator and knows how to put his arm around players. But he has lost his crutch on the training ground and is coming off the worst managerial stint in his career to date.

You have a vested interest in this in some way or another and that's cool. Be wary though, if his initial surge wears off too quickly and qualification is not attained the Irish public and media will savage him like the last three managers.

O'Neill IS tactically flexible and there is evidence of this when he deployed different types of formations when he was Celtic manager when they played in Europe.

Whoever takes over will be expected to get the team qualified or at least to a play off for Euro 2016, given the expansion of the tournament and especially if Ireland get a 2nd seed spot in the draw. If he fails he will be savaged - that goes for anyone who would hypothetically fail - I think he knows that and it goes without saying. If he does take over, I expect success under O'Neill.

Pighead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There is a significant Aston Villa following on this forum. Reading their team thread during O'Neillball was an interesting experience.

You should know better than to take the word of fans in superthreads as to the merits of any particular manager. Fans, especially on forums, tend to exaggerate the bad and ignore the good. Plenty of rubbish posters on football forums. Why not give him a chance and make up your own mind?

cson

Lennonist wrote: »

O'Neill IS tactically flexible and there is evidence of this when he deployed different types of formations when he was Celtic manager when they played in Europe.

When was he Celtic manager last? 9 years ago. In the time since then he's played regressive football as any Villa or Sunderland fan would tell you and there's a couple of knowledgeable posters on here who've been beating that particular drum pretty consistently.

Lennonist wrote: »

Whoever takes over will be expected to get the team qualified or at least to a play off for Euro 2016, given the expansion of the tournament and especially if Ireland get a 2nd seed spot in the draw. If he fails he will be savaged - that goes for anyone who would hypothetically fail - I think he knows that and it goes without saying. If he does take over, I expect success under O'Neill.

See I think this is his play here to get back into the spotlight; we should have enough about us with the current crop to get into the tournament given its expansion; nick a result or two there and he'll be talked up along the lines of got a limited Irish team to a tournament and got them as far as he could etc etc. At that point he'll be 'considering his options' in other words waiting for a mid level PL team to come in and pay him big money.

And to be honest, I'm fine with that. He'd probably get us there and that's no bad thing. We've **** all coming through so that's primarily why I'm fine with it. There's pretty much no group there to try develop a World Cup team with.

LuckyLloyd

Pighead wrote: »

You should know better than to take the word of fans in superthreads as to the merits of any particular manager. Fans, especially on forums, tend to exaggerate the bad and ignore the good. Plenty of rubbish posters on football forums. Why not give him a chance and make up your own mind?

?

He's an unknown quantity all of a sudden is he?

Pighead wanted a better brand of football did he not? Surely he cannot support O'Neill so?

Bounty Hunter

Villa fan here and tbh I think he may suit International football especially with a side like Ireland.

He was poor in the Transfer market and rarely rotated his team and they got worn out by the seasons end while not playing the most attractive of football. The Transfer market doesent matter a damn, his non rotation policy will hurt the clubs those players play for (if their first choice) more than Ireland as our games will be spread throughout the year and the players wont burn out as a result of O'Neil and his style of football although similar to Traps isn't the same but like what Traps supporters used to say it might actually be what the Irish team need to have some success because like it or not we dont have the greatest pool of players and may be more likely to get results with MON style football.

Why wouldn't John Robertson get involved with Sunderland? and will the fact that Ireland would be far less of a time away from home etc commitment mean he might join MON in an Irish management team? this would be a bigger concern for me personally, as MON is much more the Manager than the coach

having said all that I wouldnt be surprised at all if he was thinking along the lines of the above get Ireland to the euros now that its expanded then consider his options based on jobs becoming available as his rep would be improved then

Pighead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

?

He's an unknown quantity all of a sudden is he?

Pighead wanted a better brand of football did he not? Surely he cannot support O'Neill so?

He's not an unknown quantity but I can't get my head around his reputation around these parts as a hoof ball merchant. I haven't been a religious follower of Celtic, Villa or Sunderland by any means but whenever I watched any of his teams they tended to keep the ball on the ground and play decent football.

With Villa he had two exciting wingers a pacy frontman and a target man with generally Petrov and Milner in midfield who were both decent players. Played 4-4-2 against Utd in the 2010 League Cup Final and played quite an attacking team.

Celtic were known for playing attractive football during his reign also. Sunderland was obviously grim but did they resort to hoofball?

Skylinehead

Pighead wrote: »

Celtic were known for playing attractive football during his reign also. Sunderland was obviously grim but did they resort to hoofball?

Worse than Traps Ireland, from what I saw.

Paully D

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Why wouldn't John Robertson get involved with Sunderland?

His son was doing exams and his family were settled in the midlands which meant he wasn't willing to relocate, which he would have had to do in order to take the training sessions as O'Neill wasn't bothered doing them.

Sadly he had a heart attack in August and is still on the road to recovery now.

Paully D

Pighead wrote: »

Sunderland was obviously grim but did they resort to hoofball?

Some of the worst football I have ever seen and that's coming from someone who watched two teams break record low points totals in the Premier League. Our defensive record was quite good but that's because the players barely crossed the halfway line and towards the end of his reign we were struggling to register a shot on target in games.

Put it this way, we wouldn't have picked up another point last season if he hadn't been sacked. Di Canio somehow managed to get the players on board for a couple of weeks to get two big wins before turning into a psychopath, which kept us up.

keeponhurling

Coaching doesn't really matter so much as you only have a couple of days at a time with players, and usually they are just coming off a match for their club. So not sure Robertson should be a deal-breaker for appointing MON.

Looking at the latest ods, MON 1/9, McCarthy 9/1, and the rest all long shots.
Chris Hughton is 25/1, but if Norwich do sack him, those odds will come well in.
Kenny Dalglish could be an interesting one (100/1), a proven manager, lots of experience, and a part-time role might suit him at this stage.

However the appointment of Trappatoni came as a big surprise, and Houghton & Ruud Dokter seem to have been keeping a low profile so who knows who they might have approached.

I wonder could Dokter's Dutch connections help us pursue a Dutch coach, Rijkaard, Muelensteen, Hiddink or even Bert van Marwijk.
Another option could be Martin Jol if he gets the boot from Fulham

Pighead

Paully D wrote: »

Some of the worst football I have ever seen and that's coming from someone who watched two teams break record low points totals in the Premier League. Our defensive record was quite good but that's because the players barely crossed the halfway line and towards the end of his reign we were struggling to register a shot on target in games.

Put it this way, we wouldn't have picked up another point last season if he hadn't been sacked. Di Canio somehow managed to get the players on board for a couple of weeks to get two big wins before turning into a psychopath, which kept us up.

In fairness you seemed quite happy with him up until the last few months of his reign. Never heard you criticise his brand of football until after Christmas when the wheels really came off. Sunderland fans were also delighted with his transfer dealings at the start of last season. Just didn't work out for him.

LuckyLloyd

Pighead wrote: »

He's not an unknown quantity but I can't get my head around his reputation around these parts as a hoof ball merchant. I haven't been a religious follower of Celtic, Villa or Sunderland by any means but whenever I watched any of his teams they tended to keep the ball on the ground and play decent football.

With Villa he had two exciting wingers a pacy frontman and a target man with generally Petrov and Milner in midfield who were both decent players. Played 4-4-2 against Utd in the 2010 League Cup Final and played quite an attacking team.

Celtic were known for playing attractive football during his reign also. Sunderland was obviously grim but did they resort to hoofball?

Celtic were very pragmatic from what I can remember. They had a bunch of incredibly intelligent and experienced players though and real quality at times in the likes of Larrsson and Lambert. They had the ability to work it against weaker sides or be disciplined and direct against superior opposition. He did a fantastic job there really it must be said, and they were relatively heady days for the club. Seems like a long time ago now though...

Dempsey

keeponhurling wrote: »

Coaching doesn't really matter so much as you only have a couple of days at a time with players, and usually they are just coming off a match for their club. So not sure Robertson should be a deal-breaker for appointing MON.

It could be argued that those few days are instrumental in setting up tactics and getting team selections familiar with each other to counter for the opposition you play. If your not willing to do good coaching with the players, it means you are gonna most likely play the same tactics in every game eventually with players that arent fully familiar with each other (the nature of international football) which is a recipe for disaster.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Celtic were very pragmatic from what I can remember. They had a bunch of incredibly intelligent and experienced players though and real quality at times in the likes of Larrsson and Lambert. They had the ability to work it against weaker sides or be disciplined and direct against superior opposition. He did a fantastic job there really it must be said, and they were relatively heady days for the club. Seems like a long time ago now though...

Everyone remembers the heady days of the run to Seville. His spending will never be seen by another manager at the club, nor will inheriting a player like Larsson. Few remember the mess he left after Larsson left and his transfer budget was reduced because of the debt he was racking up.

keeponhurling

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Celtic were very pragmatic from what I can remember. They had a bunch of incredibly intelligent and experienced players though and real quality at times in the likes of Larrsson and Lambert. They had the ability to work it against weaker sides or be disciplined and direct against superior opposition. He did a fantastic job there really it must be said, and they were relatively heady days for the club. Seems like a long time ago now though...

All Wes Hoolahan lovers will remember that he often played Larsson & Hartson up front, with Chris Sutton as playmaker just behind them, sitting in front Lambert and Lennon.

However those who prefer a continental 4-5-1 may be disappointed.

Pighead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Celtic were very pragmatic from what I can remember. They had a bunch of incredibly intelligent and experienced players though and real quality at times in the likes of Larrsson and Lambert. They had the ability to work it against weaker sides or be disciplined and direct against superior opposition. He did a fantastic job there really it must be said, and they were relatively heady days for the club. Seems like a long time ago now though...

I think his time with Villa has to be seen as a successful period for the club overall. Three successive sixth place finishes and a first cup final in God knows how long. One of the negatives of his Villa stint was obviously some poor decisions made in the transfer market but that won't be an issue for the Irish job.

Listen I'm not fully sold on the guy an could well end up joining the naysayers after six or seven Ireland games but at the moment I think some of the flak he has gotten has been over the top and there have been grossly negative exaggerations regarding his style of play.

Dempsey

Pighead wrote: »

I think his time with Villa has to be seen as a successful period for the club overall. Three successive sixth place finishes and a first cup final in God knows how long. One of the negatives of his Villa stint was obviously some poor decisions made in the transfer market but that won't be an issue for the Irish job.

Listen I'm not fully sold on the guy an could well end up joining the naysayers after six or seven Ireland games but at the moment I think some of the flak he has gotten has been over the top and there have been grossly negative exaggerations regarding his style of play.

We have a limited pool of players. Time & time again he makes poor decisions when his options are limited. That will be a huge issue for the Ireland job imo.

Aenaes

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Celtic were very pragmatic from what I can remember. They had a bunch of incredibly intelligent and experienced players though and real quality at times in the likes of Larrsson and Lambert. They had the ability to work it against weaker sides or be disciplined and direct against superior opposition. He did a fantastic job there really it must be said, and they were relatively heady days for the club. Seems like a long time ago now though...

A long time indeed. His last year at Celtic was the same time Trapattoni was leading a Benfica team to break Porto's monolopy on the Primeira Liga.

Of course, Trapattoni was a "dinosaur" and his success back then didn't mean a thing..
I wonder does the same standard apply to O'Neill?

keeponhurling

Is it odd that not a single person has "thrown their hat into the ring"?
Haven't heard a single person say that it's an attractive job and they have applied for it.

DeanAustin

Aenaes wrote: »

A long time indeed. His last year at Celtic was the same time Trapattoni was leading a Benfica team to break Porto's monolopy on the Primeira Liga.

Of course, Trapattoni was a "dinosaur" and his success back then didn't mean a thing..
I wonder does the same standard apply to O'Neill?

I love the old "ah football's changed so much since he was successful" argument as if the person making the argument knows so much more than the manager they are criticising.

I've yet to see anyone on a message board properly articulate the validity of that argument.

Dempsey

keeponhurling wrote: »

Is it odd that not a single person has "thrown their hat into the ring"?
Haven't heard a single person say that it's an attractive job and they have applied for it.

Dino Zoff did AFAIK, but he applies for everything

Dolph Starbeam

Dempsey wrote: »

Everyone remembers the heady days of the run to Seville. His spending will never be seen by another manager at the club, nor will inheriting a player like Larsson. Few remember the mess he left after Larsson left and his transfer budget was reduced because of the debt he was racking up.

Can O'Neill be blamed for this though? It was the same with O'Leary at Leeds. These men can only spend money if they are given it to spend. The clubs made those messes, not the managers.

Paully D

Pighead wrote: »

In fairness you seemed quite happy with him up until the last few months of his reign. Never heard you criticise his brand of football until after Christmas when the wheels really came off. Sunderland fans were also delighted with his transfer dealings at the start of last season. Just didn't work out for him.

To be fair I was completely against the appointment at the start, then when he sent us on a bit of a run I was thinking ''hold on a minute, he's proven me wrong here.'' I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt that summer after what he had done from December-the end of March (we had been atrocious from March to the end of that season, winning 0 games) ahead of a new season.

I felt Fletcher was the perfect signing for his system (and he has proven to be a very good signing) and every team in the league would have been happy with the signing of Adam Johnson. That can also be offset by the fact he made one of the worst signings in the clubs history in Danny Graham and let three promising, young squad players who are all playing Premier League football this season go from an already small squad.

The problem was that he wasn't turning up to the training ground to take training any more which he had done when he arrived and kicked off a good run of results, and that's why it didn't work out for him. It was something he could control and he wasn't arsed, which makes it even worse and completely his fault. When things got messy he either didn't have the ability or motivation to turn things around. He kept producing the same team, tactics and ultimately results. He can't and won't change.

As I said last night, the same thing will happen with Ireland. He'll start off well, teams will adapt to his style and then he won't bother or won't be able to find a solution to change it. The hard evidence to show exactly how this appointment will go is there in black and white but some people are choosing to ignore it.

Dempsey

YayaBanana wrote: »

Can O'Neill be blamed for this though? It was the same with O'Leary at Leeds. These men can only spend money if they are given it to spend. The clubs made those messes, not the managers.

At Celtic, O'Neill had control over transfer policy, he threatened to walk when then new CEO Peter Lawwell wanted that control given to him in his new contract. So yes, he can be blamed there and if he had similar powers in other clubs, blame can be apportioned to him aswell as owners for giving it to him and the problems it causes in the business side of things. For whatever reason, clubs eventually cut off the money and ask him to sell to buy. He fails miserably at this which isnt a big deal for international football. But thats not what im trying to point out.

What is a big deal is what he does when his options are limited which is very poor, his motivational skills cannot trump this issue. By contrast at Celtic, Gordon Strachan was leaps and bounds ahead of him in that regard, had better success at the highest level using inferior players to what MON had and is currently doing an excellent job so far at ending the malaise of the Scottish NT.

Dolph Starbeam

Dempsey wrote: »

At Celtic, O'Neill had control over transfer policy, he threatened to walk when then new CEO Peter Lawwell wanted that control given to him in his new contract. So yes, he can be blamed there and if he had similar powers in other clubs, blame can be apportioned to him aswell as owners for giving it to him and the problems it causes in the business side of things.

I wasn't aware of that. Agree with the rest of what you said too.

dd972

Just in from the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/football

looks like another foreign manager ( Joking :pac: ), I reckon MON's a decent choice.

DeanAustin

Dempsey wrote: »

At Celtic, O'Neill had control over transfer policy, he threatened to walk when then new CEO Peter Lawwell wanted that control given to him in his new contract. So yes, he can be blamed there and if he had similar powers in other clubs, blame can be apportioned to him aswell as owners for giving it to him and the problems it causes in the business side of things. For whatever reason, clubs eventually cut off the money and ask him to sell to buy. He fails miserably at this which isnt a big deal for international football. But thats not what im trying to point out.

What is a big deal is what he does when his options are limited which is very poor, his motivational skills cannot trump this issue. By contrast at Celtic, Gordon Strachan was leaps and bounds ahead of him in that regard, had better success at the highest level using inferior players to what MON had and is currently doing an excellent job so far at ending the malaise of the Scottish NT.

I always wonder why O'Neill is more fondly remembered by Celtic fans than Strachan. From the outside, I always thought Strachan did a far better job.

Pighead

Paully D wrote: »

To be fair I was completely against the appointment at the start, then when he sent us on a bit of a run I was thinking ''hold on a minute, he's proven me wrong here.'' I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt that summer after what he had done from December-the end of March (we had been atrocious from March to the end of that season, winning 0 games) ahead of a new season.

I felt Fletcher was the perfect signing for his system (and he has proven to be a very good signing) and every team in the league would have been happy with the signing of Adam Johnson. That can also be offset by the fact he made one of the worst signings in the clubs history in Danny Graham and let three promising, young squad players who are all playing Premier League football this season go from an already small squad.

The problem was that he wasn't turning up to the training ground to take training any more which he had done when he arrived and kicked off a good run of results, and that's why it didn't work out for him. It was something he could control and he wasn't arsed, which makes it even worse and completely his fault. When things got messy he either didn't have the ability or motivation to turn things around. He kept producing the same team, tactics and ultimately results. He can't and won't change.

As I said last night, the same thing will happen with Ireland. He'll start off well, teams will adapt to his style and then he won't bother or won't be able to find a solution to change it. The hard evidence to show exactly how this appointment will go is there in black and white but some people are choosing to ignore it.

Love the way this training thing is only been seen as a negative now when he's having a bad spell. Not a word about it when he was doing well. O'Neill has always left the training to his assistant. He'd oversee bits and pieces of it but in the main his assistant would take charge.

Also, it's a bit hard to criticise him for the Graham transfer when there wasn't a whisper of negativity when he bought him. Our best transfer window ever' people were saying. Every manager makes transfer mistakes. Losing Cattermole and Fletcher at a vital stage of the season was unfortunate and probably the main reason why Sunderland went to crap at the beginning of 2013.

keeponhurling

That article doesn't seem to be based on anything only bookies' odds?

I assume the FAI have to at least hear Houghton & Dokter's report before making any decisions.

rebelomar

Speaking as both an Ireland and Villa supporter neither my heart or soul can't take anymore hoofball.

He has always been a good motivator and his man management skills have been quoted by loads of ex players.

I just despise his brand of football. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a relative success but I've little desire to see him get the job.

His spell at Sunderland worries me, he genuinely looked bereft of ideas and couldn't halt their slide. If his passion has gone it's a waste of time appointing him.

keeponhurling

DeanAustin wrote: »

I always wonder why O'Neill is more fondly remembered by Celtic fans than Strachan. From the outside, I always thought Strachan did a far better job.

The 2003 UEFA Cup run was magical......
Probably sticks in the memory more than any SPL win.

Pighead

DeanAustin wrote: »

I always wonder why O'Neill is more fondly remembered by Celtic fans than Strachan. From the outside, I always thought Strachan did a far better job.

keeponhurling wrote: »

The 2003 UEFA Cup run was magical......
Probably sticks in the memory more than any SPL win.

Also it could be argued that O'Neill faced (and generally beat)much stiffer opposition given that Rangers were a lot stronger in the first half of the decade than the second.

Lovely Bloke

DeanAustin wrote: »

I always wonder why O'Neill is more fondly remembered by Celtic fans than Strachan. From the outside, I always thought Strachan did a far better job.

Something to do with Strachan not being "Celtic minded" enough.

Whatever that may mean.

Paully D

Pighead wrote: »

Love the way this training thing is only been seen as a negative now when he's having a bad spell. Not a word about it when he was doing well. O'Neill has always left the training to his assistant. He'd oversee bits and pieces of it but in the main his assistant would take charge.

Also, it's a bit hard to criticise him for the Graham transfer when there wasn't a whisper of negativity when he bought him. Our best transfer window ever' people were saying. Every manager makes transfer mistakes. Losing Cattermole and Fletcher at a vital stage of the season was unfortunate and probably the main reason why Sunderland went to crap at the beginning of 2013.

He was there, on the training ground and getting involved when he first arrived. If you have a Times subscription you can read this article from George Caulkin which states that he was on the training ground. This one from the same source also details how he was even content to be working over the Christmas period at the Stadium of Light, overseeing training. The problem is he stopped putting in the hours on the training ground and results slipped.

No whisper of negativity when Graham was signed? Well here's a pretty good indication of the negativity that was actually there. A poll on the main Sunderland forum which members could vote on accumulated over 600 votes and showed a 72.4% swing against his signing, only 18.6% were in favour, with 9% unsure:

Oat23

Meh. He did well at Leicester 15 years ago and then won a two team league in Scotland for a few years. Spent a lot of money and done nothing since.

Not a fan of this appointment if it happens.

COYVB

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm not expecting Ireland to start playing Tiki-Taka, I'd be happy with:

• a bit more tactical flexibility
• fewer players being pointlessly sent into exile
• speaking english
• attending club games regularly

people saying "it'll end in tears" - of course it will, managers hardly ever quit voluntarily - it's ended in tears for every previous Irish manager...

Well... You'll get the last 2 with O'Neill

Dempsey

DeanAustin wrote: »

I always wonder why O'Neill is more fondly remembered by Celtic fans than Strachan. From the outside, I always thought Strachan did a far better job.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Something to do with Strachan not being "Celtic minded" enough.

Whatever that may mean.

O'Neill is fondly remembered because Celtic under him challenged and broke the dominance of the free spending & very successful Rangers and also made the club a force to be reckoned with in European Competition once again. Being a Celtic fan in the 90's only had rare moments to celebrate, he talked up Celtic & backed it up with results so its easy to see why MON is revered.

Strachan never endeared himself to the majority of Celtic fans alright. Through his background, playing career, often dull tactics, his dismissive demeanour of fair criticism of performances and the fans at times meant that when the results werent rolling in, he had very little slack from the fans. Celtic Park was rarely full & the atmosphere ranged from dour to hypercritical towards Celtic players for a long time under him. When you are buying season tickets, all these things cannot be dismissed because of the success. History will be kinder to him but its hard to ignore what he did with inferior players & vastly reduced budgets. Between the success despite the lack of affinity with the fans, developing youth players and getting the likes of Paul Telfer to mark Cristiano Ronaldo in UCL games, you can see his quality as a manager.

Very contrasting managers tbh but I'd know who I'd want when times are tough.

Pighead wrote: »

Also it could be argued that O'Neill faced (and generally beat)much stiffer opposition given that Rangers were a lot stronger in the first half of the decade than the second.

Celtic cut their spending drastically under Strachan so that is a moot point imo

rob316

Woeful appoitnment, if you thought Trap played bad football, you aint seen nothing yet. Found wanting on club level and will be badly found out on international level. Trap's era will look like a golden age.

DeanAustin

Pighead wrote: »

Also it could be argued that O'Neill faced (and generally beat)much stiffer opposition given that Rangers were a lot stronger in the first half of the decade than the second.

Fair enough but Strachan was much more impressive in the CL than O'Neill and, for me, that trumps the UEFA Cup or Rangers argument (the latter of which is fairly flimsy for my money anyway).

premierstone

Oat23 wrote: »

Meh. He did well at Leicester 15 years ago and then won a two team league in Scotland for a few years. Spent a lot of money and done nothing since.

Not a fan of this appointment if it happens.

Thats a very good, detailed and honest summary of MON's managerial career :rolleyes:

My only concern would be that when John Robertson departed from the coaching ticket his career did seem to stall although it remioans to be seen if he can coax Robertson out of retirement should the need arise.