Who are the candidates for the Ireland job?

Mars Bar

Threads merged

COYVB

YayaBanana wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that. Agree with the rest of what you said too.

He walked when the same thing happened at villa too, after spending over a quarter of a billion in total during his tenure (fees and stupid wages combined)

Paully D

premierstone wrote: »

My only concern would be that when John Robertson departed from the coaching ticket his career did seem to stall although it remioans to be seen if he can coax Robertson out of retirement should the need arise.

Unfortunately Robertson suffered a heart attack a few months ago so I would imagine it is extremely unlikely.

Cantona's Collars

Has anyone mentioned Hoddle,he had England playing decent stuff until it went pear shaped as usual.

Pighead

Paully D wrote: »

He was there, on the training ground and getting involved when he first arrived. If you have a Times subscription you can read this article from George Caulkin which states that he was on the training ground. This one from the same source also details how he was even content to be working over the Christmas period at the Stadium of Light, overseeing training. The problem is he stopped putting in the hours on the training ground and results slipped.

No whisper of negativity when Graham was signed? Well here's a pretty good indication of the negativity that was actually there. A poll on the main Sunderland forum which members could vote on accumulated over 600 votes and showed a 72.4% swing against his signing, only 18.6% were in favour, with 9% unsure:

Can't read that as I don't have a Times subscription. It al sounds way too simplistic to state that Sunderland started losing because O'Neill 'stopped putting the hours in on the training ground'. Surely you have to admit that the loss of Cattermole and Fletcher had a huge bearing on results?

As for that poll it was always gonna end up like that when the first post in the thread contains an interview showing Graham saying that if his club ceased to exist he would 'stay as far away from Sunderland as I could'. Fact he's a Newcastle fan probably doesn't help either. I was talking about negativity here on boards where the fans are a tad more objective than the rabid Sunderland based fan forums.

Oat23

premierstone wrote: »

Thats a very good, detailed and honest summary of MON's managerial career :rolleyes:

Thanks, bro. I don't know about good and detailed. But I think I get a 10/10 for honesty. The guy has done nothing in years and plays a terrible brand of football. You're probably a Celtic fan and love what he did for you guys which is great. He did a good job at Celtic, domestically and in Europe. But he left 8 years ago and has done nothing since leaving. He's not the right man for Ireland.

Xavi6

Pat Fenlon is now available, just saying.

Pighead

Oat23 wrote: »

Thanks, bro. I don't know about good and detailed. But I think I get a 10/10 for honesty. The guy has done nothing in years and plays a terrible brand of football. You're probably a Celtic fan and love what he did for you guys which is great. He did a good job at Celtic, domestically and in Europe. But he left 8 years ago and has done nothing since leaving. He's not the right man for Ireland.

Three sixth place finishes with Villa in a row? Surely that was pretty decent? You must think all of the recent Hamburg managers have been rubbish given your criteria for success?

Oat23

Pighead wrote: »

Three sixth place finishes with Villa in a row? Surely that was pretty decent? You must think all of the recent Hamburg managers have been rubbish given your criteria for success?

He spent £120m. One hundred and twenty million pounds sterling. If you spend that much during your time there and manage 6th you don't deserve a pat on the back. I doubt the teams that finished one spot behind them spent anywhere near what Villa were spending.

Also, all of the recent HSV managers have been rubbish. Hamburg is a tough place to manage and every appointment since Jol has been rubbish (except van Marwijk).

Pighead

Pighead wrote: »

Three sixth place finishes with Villa in a row? Surely that was pretty decent? You must think all of the recent Hamburg managers have been rubbish given your criteria for success?

What state did he leave Villa in though?

COYVB

Oat23 wrote: »

He spent £120m. One hundred and twenty million pounds sterling. If you spend that much during your time there and manage 6th you don't deserve a pat on the back. I doubt the teams that finished one spot behind them spent anywhere near what Villa were spending.

His total spending exceed £.25billion, all in, for everything he had sign off on. It was ridiculous. he signed 23 players, all but 3 of them left for less than they were bought for, IIRC 12-15 of them left for free including Cuellar (cost £7.8m) and Reo Coker (cost £8m). He also had a tendency to sign players, then fall out with them and never play them again, despite having them on relatively massive wages.

He didn't do an awful job on paper, but he only did the bare minimum given the resources at his disposal, and his legacy was debts spiraling out of control that needed to be reigned in. You could say it's not his fault he was given all that money, and you'd be right, it IS his fault that he spent it so abysmally, though

aramush

Forget all this bickering about his credentials or what he may have done right or wrong in the past, if MO'N is appointed manager of our country, we should get behind him and the team and give Euro 2016 qualification a right go!

premierstone

aramush wrote: »

Forget all this bickering about his credentials or what he may have done right or wrong in the past, if MO'N is appointed manager of our country, we should get behind him and the team and give Euro 2016 qualification a right go!

Yes and England should go to the World Cup with realistic and reduced expectations compared to the norm ....... but crazy sh*t like that just don't happen!

Pighead

rarnes1 wrote: »

What state did he leave Villa in though?

Not as bad as people try to imply I would wager. They spent 23 million last season. Not bad for a club O'Neill apparently left broke. That 23 million was more than O'Neill spent in three of his four seasons in charge. Also James Milner was sold for twenty odd million a couple of weeks after O'Neill left which gives the books a much more balanced look when looking at O'Neills reign. He probably spent about 16 or 17 million net per season which isn't too extreme.

COYVB

Pighead wrote: »

Not as bad as people try to imply I would wager

losing £50m a year is pretty bad

LuckyLloyd

aramush wrote: »

Forget all this bickering about his credentials or what he may have done right or wrong in the past, if MO'N is appointed manager of our country, we should get behind him and the team and give Euro 2016 qualification a right go!

Like all you lads were behind Trapp?

Pighead

COYVB wrote: »

losing £50m a year is pretty bad

€50m a year? €200min total? Ok, we'll say €60m for transfers over four years. Where are you getting the rest?

ctrl-alt-delete

Totally underwhelmed with the possibility of O'Neill in charge, but will if course give the man a chance.

When teams copped on to his tactics and the limited abilities of his wingers at Sunderland things were woeful.

I would say the worst I have seen at the SoL myself, and he does tend to resort to the type of football some despised Trap for.

I think he has his own brand of stubbornness and will rarely change tactics or personnel.

That said I think he must have great motivational skills that may just stretch further in the International game.

COYVB

Pighead wrote: »

€50m a year? €200min total? Ok, we'll say €60m for transfers over four years. Where are you getting the rest?

obscene wages like habib beye who played 3 games on 45k a week, nicky shorey on 45k a week etc. all guys who either ran down their contracts or were paid off big money to leave. there's nothing wrong with the kind of money that was paid to players for a top 6 club, but they were paid to players who were nowhere close to being top 6 players

Pighead

COYVB wrote: »

obscene wages like habib beye who played 3 games on 45k a week, nicky shorey on 45k a week etc. all guys who either ran down their contracts or were paid off big money to leave. there's nothing wrong with the kind of money that was paid to players for a top 6 club, but they were paid to players who were nowhere close to being top 6 players

Love how you include all these negative variables when coming up with your figures and completely ignore the good stuff like Young, Milner and Dpwning bringing in probably twice as much as they were bought for.

cson

Xavi6 wrote: »

Pat Fenlon is now available, just saying.

That'd be an interesting choice.

G.K.

Pighead wrote: »

Love how you include all these negative variables when coming up with your figures and completely ignore the good stuff like Young, Milner and Dpwning bringing in probably twice as much as they were bought for.

I may be wrong, but those were the only players that MON bought who werre then sold on for a profit, I think. Wages for players who contributed very little and left for no or a nominal fee will have gone a long way to offsetting the profits made on those 3 transfers.

Pighead

G.K. wrote: »

I may be wrong, but those were the only players that MON bought who werre then sold on for a profit, I think. Wages for players who contributed very little and left for no or a nominal fee will have gone a long way to offsetting the profits made on those 3 transfers.

Well yes of course. I'm not claiming that he had a negative net spend here. I would say the majority of managers end up spending more than they take in. What I am questioning are some of the astronomical figures being bandied around which make O'Neills reign seem way worse than it was. Pretty sure there were a couple more sold on for profit as well as those three big ones.

One of the Villa fans on here had a very good breakdown on O'Neills transfers and what they were sold on for etc. Was a bit of an eye opener iirc

COYVB

Pighead wrote: »

Love how you include all these negative variables when coming up with your figures and completely ignore the good stuff like Young, Milner and Dpwning bringing in probably twice as much as they were bought for.

Those 3 are the only 3 that were sold for a profit of his 23 signings

I think 1 broke even, 4 were sold for money, and the rest left on a free. So yeah, you mention those 3 like there are more than them, and theyre the tip of the iceberg - they are the iceberg. and the sea.

COYVB

Pighead wrote: »

Pretty sure there were a couple more sold on for profit as well as those three big ones.

There weren't. It's just those 3

Pighead

COYVB wrote: »

There weren't. It's just those 3

Shaun Maloney? Zat Knight?

COYVB

rarnes1 wrote: »

One of the Villa fans on here had a very good breakdown on O'Neills transfers and what they were sold on for etc. Was a bit of an eye opener iirc

This is it:

Stewart Downing £12m - to Liverpool £18m
Fabian Delph £8.5m - still at club
Habib Beye £3.5m - released
Stephen Warnock £8m - released
James Collins £5m - to West Ham £2.5m
Richard Dunne £5m - released
Curtis Davies £10m - to Birmingam £1m
Steven Sidwell £5.5m - to Fulham £500k
Brad Friedel £2.5m - released
Brad Guzan £0.6m - released (later re-signed)
Nicky Shorey £4.5m - released
Luke Young £5m - to QPR free transfer
Carlos Cuellar £7.8m - released
James Milner £12m - to Man City £18m
Emile Heskey £3.5m - released
Marlon Harewood £4.5m - released
Zat Knight £3.5m - to Bolton £4m
Moustapha Salifou £0.25m - released
Wayne Routledge £1.25m - released
Stiliyan Petrov £6.5m - retired
Didier Agathe Free - released
Chris Sutton Free - released
John Carew Swap - released
Ashley Young £9.6m - to Man Utd £16m
Shaun Maloney £1m - to Celtic £2.5m
Nigel Reo-Coker £8m - released

players signed by martin o'neill: 26
players signed who left for free: 16 (1 later re-signed)
players signed who left for profit: 5
players signed who left for less than paid/same as paid: 3
players still at club: 2 (one re-signed after leaving)

*edited with updated figures*

COYVB

Pighead wrote: »

Shaun Maloney? Zat Knight?

knight left for the same as he was signed for, maloney left for £250k

Dempsey

COYVB wrote: »

knight left for the same as he was signed for, maloney left for £250k

Maloney was resigned by Celtic in a deal that was worth upto £2.5m depending on clauses according to the official Villa website.

I dont think that changes the overall complexion of MON's transfer dealings at Villa

Pighead

COYVB wrote: »

knight left for the same as he was signed for, maloney left for £250k

Knight was bought for 3.5 and sold for 4. Maloney bought for 1m sold for 2.5m.

COYVB

both look to be accurate on googling. if every player he signed left for that incredibly generous profit margin things would've been a lot better financially at the club

Dempsey

Pighead wrote: »

Knight was bought for 3.5 and sold for 4. Maloney bought for 1m sold for 2.5m.

That is speculating that all the clauses were activated, I doubt they were.

Bounty Hunter

rarnes1 wrote: »

One of the Villa fans on here had a very good breakdown on O'Neills transfers and what they were sold on for etc. Was a bit of an eye opener iirc

Your thinking of Helix/COYVB (wouldn't usually state that as it's akin to re-reg speculation but its been mentioned many times on the Villa thread and he seems to have no issue with it). He knows what he is talking about with regards the financial figures Pighead (although ill admit he seems to have perhaps gotten those 2 you mentioned slightly off). Anyway his (MON's) financial failings shouldnt be an issue here as there will be no transfers with Ireland

Im going to give him the benefit of the doubt with regards Ireland as I have always thought International football may suit him better than club football but im not as excited as I was by the proposal of MON in charge of one of my teams as I was before he took the Villa job

uncleoswald

players signed who left for free: 16 (1 later re-signed)

A lot of those players were either signed for free or had a decent career at Villa, yet are been used as a stat to beat him with?

Cripes, I knew the false narrative of O'Neill been a completely crap manager had gotten out of control but this thread takes it to a new level. I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion that looks at his career objectivity and thinks he is less than decent.

COYVB

uncleoswald wrote: »

A lot of those players were either signed for free or had a decent career at Villa, yet are been used as a stat to beat him with?

Cripes, I knew the false narrative of O'Neill been a completely crap manager had gotten out of control but this thread takes it to a new level. I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion that looks at his career objectivity and thinks he is less than decent.

How many were signed for free? 2 constitutes a lot now? How many had decent careers at villa?

uncleoswald

On that list I would say that the signings of Friedel, Dunne, Collins, Petrov, Cuellar, Sutton, Luke Young, Heskey, Agathe, Guzan are unfairly been used as blind stats to beat O'Neill with. And any manager can be portrayed as such with contextless stats.

I'd like to point out that O'Neill would not be my first choice to manage Ireland but I just think for the last few years it seems to have become fashionable to rubbish him.

The_Kew_Tour

Im willing to wager he wont get us top 2 spot for Euros if he does indeed get the job.

It aint good enough. Simple as.

rob316

What have signings got to do with o neill been good enough for the Ireland job? On managerial ability he is not good enough simple as.
This is like sacking rafa benitez and bringing in roy hodgson. Theres a huge difference in ability.

COYVB

uncleoswald wrote: »

On that list I would say that the signings of Friedel, Dunne, Collins, Petrov, Cuellar, Sutton, Luke Young, Heskey, Agathe, Guzan are unfairly been used as blind stats to beat O'Neill with. And any manager can be portrayed as such with contextless stats.

Friedel - did well, paid 55k a week for the privilege
Dunne - started well, tailed off, not worth his 55k a week
collins - started well, then went to pot. absolute liability, alcoholic and troublemaker. not worth 50k a week
petrov - great servant to the club, earned his 55k a week after a woeful start
cuellar - should've been a decent signing, but played almost exclusively out of position while at the club
sutton - really? sutton?
luke young - again, started well until mon decided not to play his best right back at right back, then there was a falling out. pocketed 45k a week to sit on his arse for long periods
heskey - honestly? emile heskey? we PAID for him, actual money. and 55k a week in wages. he was diabolical
agathe - filled a gap temporarily
guzan - signed by mon, played in the cups, dropped for the cup final after he helped get the team there. eventually left on a free, then lambert convinced him to stay, now in the top 3 keepers in the league

Paully D

COYVB wrote: »

Friedel - did well, paid 55k a week for the privilege
Dunne - started well, tailed off, not worth his 55k a week
collins - started well, then went to pot. absolute liability, alcoholic and troublemaker. not worth 50k a week
petrov - great servant to the club, earned his 55k a week after a woeful start
cuellar - should've been a decent signing, but played almost exclusively out of position while at the club
sutton - really? sutton?
luke young - again, started well until mon decided not to play his best right back at right back, then there was a falling out. pocketed 45k a week to sit on his arse for long periods
heskey - honestly? emile heskey? we PAID for him, actual money. and 55k a week in wages. he was diabolical
agathe - filled a gap temporarily
guzan - signed by mon, played in the cups, dropped for the cup final after he helped get the team there. eventually left on a free, then lambert convinced him to stay, now in the top 3 keepers in the league

Started well, tailed off seems to be the general consensus on most of his signings at Villa and is probably a good way to sum up O'Neill's managerial career too.

uncleoswald

COYVB wrote: »

sutton - really? sutton?

I'm not claiming he was a success or anything :pac: Just that he was signed on a free and then injury ended his career so I don't think can be used as a mark for or against O'Neill.

heskey - honestly? emile heskey? we PAID for him, actual money. and 55k a week in wages. he was diabolical

Yes he is a terrible footballer, a terrible footballer that managers better than O'Neill also liked because he did 'a job'.

LuckyLloyd

I think O'Neill has always got sympathetic coverage in the UK media and has generally illicited a strong initial response from his sides. That goes a long way with the modern football fan. He's generally timed his exits from clubs well too.

Helix has done the work on this forum many times before though. O'Neill's record is deeply flawed when you peer closely into the corners.

COYVB

uncleoswald wrote: »

Yes he is a terrible footballer, a terrible footballer that managers better than O'Neill also liked because he did 'a job'.

Doesn't matter what he did elsewhere, at villa he fell over a lot and managed to not score consistently while being joint highest earner. MON also changed our system to fit him in when we were (i think) 10 points clear of arsenal in 4th. We all know how that worked out

JPA

It's really quite pointless talking about transfers and wages etc when talking about a potential international manager when it all doesn't matter.

His problems are his tactics are basic and outdated, really exactly like Trap. He loves wingers but struggles to get anything out of centrally creative players. Hoohlahan etc needn't expect to play a a big part.


He may not fall out with as many players buy I can tell you he will fall out with some of them.

If the FAI appoint he'll be a popular choice, despite what this forum might think, but it will really be a continuation of a failing regime.

Lennonist

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im willing to wager he wont get us top 2 spot for Euros if he does indeed get the job.

It aint good enough. Simple as.

Fill your boots on that son, put your shirt on it. Not saying I wouldn't take you at your word but I'd like to see a copy of the betting slip if O'Neill takes over and you do put your money where your mouth is.

The_Kew_Tour

Lennonist wrote: »

Fill your boots on that son, put your shirt on it. Not saying I wouldn't take you at your word but I'd like to see a copy of the betting slip if O'Neill takes over and you do put your money where your mouth is.

My wager was for more confident individual here.

Ill get **** all odds in bookies:pac:

oldyouth

O'Neill manager, Roy assistant. Sounds strange but good sources

The_Kew_Tour

oldyouth wrote: »

O'Neill manager, Roy assistant. Sounds strange but good sources

I trust you.

But can I ask where you heard that mate?

JPA

oldyouth wrote: »

O'Neill manager, Roy assistant. Sounds strange but good sources

They were talking about that on newstalk, seems mad, would be interesting.