Who are the candidates for the Ireland job?

keeponhurling

where are these O Neill / Keane rumors coming from, anything solid to back then up?

Dempsey

keeponhurling wrote: »

where are these O Neill / Keane rumors coming from, anything solid to back then up?

The Daily Mirror is running the story in today's paper, so no nothing solid as yet.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roy-keane-set-republic-ireland-2666591

Pighead

keeponhurling wrote: »

where are these O Neill / Keane rumors coming from, anything solid to back then up?

Daniel McDonnell going with it tomorrow in the Irish Independent. You can be sure the story is true.

COYVB

Lennonist wrote: »

I'd say the bookies will offer generous odds on Ireland not qualifying if O'Neill takes over

I doubt that TBH

Fr Tod Umptious

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Worked perfectly well when getting Sunderland from the foot of the championship to the Premier League in less than a season. He has shown great talent as a manager, as well as many downfalls. Maybe as a coach, we will get the best of his better qualities.

As you said less than a season, after that it was all down hill.

I cannot grasp the logic of Keane being involved here

If Keane wants a managerial career then he should head to League 2 or the conference and start from there, just live MON and many others did

Fr Tod Umptious

Lennonist wrote: »

A poor mans Trapatoni? You know better than that.

I have a feeling that if Henrik Larson was ready to be appointed Ireland manager you would be equally as supportive of the appointment

homerjay2005

this is like the Rabbits episode of father ted....so mad, it could actually work.

Unearthly

From the FAI point of view its a great way to bring back interest in the Irish team. Roy Keane is a box office attraction to our nation. I for one am interested to see if it works out(if rumours are true of course)

LuckyLloyd

Roy Keane will have my full support anyway. Portugal at Landsdowne in 2001; Holland in 2001; France in 2005 - those performances are burned into my brain forever. Let's see what happens.

HalloweenJack

I don't mind having O'Neill but tacking on Roy Keane just seems like a way to appease the fans.

I'll give them a go but really can't see Keano settling for second best.

Lennonist

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I have a feeling that if Henrik Larson was ready to be appointed Ireland manager you would be equally as supportive of the appointment

Fr Tod Umptious

Lennonist wrote: »

Your head is so far up O'Neills hole.
I'm guessing its cos you are a Celtic fan, and you would have the same attitude if another Celtic hero, Larson, was the man and not O'Neill

Take off the Celtic blinkers

Dolph Starbeam

Both go them on the ITV panel on Tuesday night for the Man United match. That will be worth watching.

Knex*

I wish this was happening to a PL team instead of Ireland. Then I could laugh at the whole thing, like it deserves to be laughed at, instead of wanting to cry.

Lennonist

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Your head is so far up O'Neills hole.
I'm guessing its cos you are a Celtic fan, and you would have the same attitude if another Celtic hero, Larson, was the man and not O'Neill

Take off the Celtic blinkers

Well for your information Fr. Tod U(m)ptious:pac:; I think O'Neill would be a good appointment because he's an experienced football man and one of his main attributes - of getting the best out of moderately talented players - is perfect for the international game. So it's not just because he managed Celtic a few years ago. Somehow, because someone says Martin O'Neill would be a good appointment, it means you are sticking your head above the parapet around here. I don't know how that came to pass but I know that in the real world, among real football people and knowledgeable football fans, the appointment of Martin O'Neill would be welcomed.

Fr Tod Umptious

Lennonist wrote: »

Well for your information Fr. Tod U(m)ptious:pac:; I think O'Neill would be a good appointment because he's an experienced football man and one of his main attributes - of getting the best out of moderately talented players - is perfect for the international game. So it's not just because he managed Celtic a few years ago. Somehow, because someone says Martin O'Neill would be a good appointment, it means you are sticking your head above the parapet around here. I don't know how that came to pass but I know that in the real world, among real football people and knowledgeable football fans, the appointment of Martin O'Neill would be welcomed.

But his recent form is far from the getting the best out of limited resources.
The last time he did that was at Lecister, and as I said earlier it would be interesting to analyze his transfer policy there like people have done for his villa days.

I just think your enthusiasm for him is based more on your Celtic support than a proper subjective analysis on O Neill's recent managerial record

The_Kew_Tour

I hope if/when O Neill gets the job gets the job and in 4 years time people here can look back and laugh at my posts.

I hope he succeeds. If/when he gets the job I hope he the best we ever had. He will have my full support. 100%

Im just not confident. I dont trust him to achieve what we can, which is qualification automatically for Euro 2016.

Of course it depends on group. If he gets tough group then I will accept qualifying through playoffs. If not then anything less then 2nd will be disappointment.

I dont think he will be success. Do I hope im wrong? 1000%

Lennonist

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But his recent form is far from the getting the best out of limited resources.
The last time he did that was at Lecister, and as I said earlier it would be interesting to analyze his transfer policy there like people have done for his villa days.

I just think your enthusiasm for him is based more on your Celtic support than a proper subjective analysis on O Neill's recent managerial record

No. Celtic have had plenty of poor managers down the years as well as good ones. If Tony Mowbray was linked with the Ireland job for example, I wouldnt think that would be a good idea.

smileyj1987

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I hope if/when O Neill gets the job gets the job and in 4 years time people here can look back and laugh at my posts.

I hope he succeeds. If/when he gets the job I hope he the best we ever had. He will have my full support. 100%

Im just not confident. I dont trust him to achieve what we can, which is qualification automatically for Euro 2016.

Of course it depends on group. If he gets tough group then I will accept qualifying through playoffs. If not then anything less then 2nd will be disappointment.

I dont think he will be success. Do I hope im wrong? 1000%

I have to agree with you I'm not a fan of O'Neill at all but I really do wish he has a successful spell as our manager if he gets the job .

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Whoever is given the job the appointment will be a gamble, but O'Neill/Keane might just get the best man management/tactics combination that is available at the moment.
Like I say it is a gamble, but one I hope succeeds.

devotional1993

Its an appointment to gets bums on seats. Last thing we need is that Knob Keane back near this Irish team. Well done John Delaney on filling the aviva for the Latvia match. A complete circus around Roy Keane. It will be like Old Trafford in there with Man UTD jerseys.

The_Kew_Tour

devotional1993 wrote: »

Its an appointment to gets bums on seats. Last thing we need is that Knob Keane back near this Irish team. Well done John Delaney on filling the aviva for the Latvia match. A complete circus around Roy Keane. It will be like Old Trafford in there with Man UTD jerseys.

No

it wont

devotional1993

cork

The_Kew_Tour

devotional1993 wrote: »

cork

Whats Cork got to do with anything?

This is Irish job not Cork. Dont think Cork could afford MON.;)

devotional1993

Well I hope Keanes job is putting the cones out and making tea,.not Barrys mind :-)

COYW

devotional1993 wrote: »

Its an appointment to gets bums on seats. Last thing we need is that Knob Keane back near this Irish team. Well done John Delaney on filling the aviva for the Latvia match. A complete circus around Roy Keane. It will be like Old Trafford in there with Man UTD jerseys.

No chance. It'll be Celtic and there will probably be a marked increase in the number of fans from N.I.. It is a money driven appointment, which could implode at any point. Attendances will be well up for the Latvia game and subsequent games. That is all the FAI seem to care about, judging by this appointment.

Paully D

devotional1993 wrote: »

cork

You put an 'r' instead of a 'c'.

Paul Tergat

Whoever is appointed the people who say they wont go to matches based on who is managing the country should take a look at themselves imo

devotional1993

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Whoever is appointed the people who say they wont go to matches based on who is managing the country should take a look at themselves imo

Ever notice the people who say that are usually barstoolers who never set foot in the Aviva

COYW

devotional1993 wrote: »

Ever notice the people who say that are usually barstoolers who never set foot in the Aviva

How did you come to that conclusion?

Two of my friends, who have missed about 4 or so home games, including nothing friendlies in the past 15 years and go to a fair few away games, will be giving up their block booking and "going into retirement" if this appointment comes to pass.

The appointment has nothing to do with the betterment of the team. It is a vulgar PR and seat selling exercise.

Rhys Essien

Are some people finding it hard to understand,its O'Neill who wants Keane to be his assistant,not the FAI's decision.

Fr Tod Umptious

Getting back to MON's work at Leicester

From rough calculations based of the info here he spent approx £24 million during his 4.5 years at Leicester

That is quiet a substantial sum of money for a low profile club back in the late 90s

Fr Tod Umptious

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Are some people finding it hard to understand,its O'Neill who wants Keane to be his assistant,not the FAI's decision.

Yea that threw me all right when it was pointed out me me on the other thread

It's sounded right down the FAI's alley when I heard it first

Rhys Essien

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Getting back to MON's work at Leicester

From rough calculations based of the info here he spent approx £24 million during his 4.5 years at Leicester

That is quiet a substantial sum of money for a low profile club back in the late 90s

Whether he spent 240million at Leicester,what relivance does this have to him being an International manager?

Fr Tod Umptious

Lennonist wrote: »

No. Celtic have had plenty of poor managers down the years as well as good ones. If Tony Mowbray was linked with the Ireland job for example, I wouldnt think that would be a good idea.

Well Mowbray was hardly the darling of the Celtic faithful that O'Neill was now was he ?

Yes O'Neill did well with Celtic, re-established them after the bad years of the 90s you could say, but since that time his star has fallen greatly

RoryMac

COYW wrote: »

How did you come to that conclusion?

Two of my friends, who have missed about 4 or so home games, including nothing friendlies in the past 15 years and go to a fair few away games, will be giving up their block booking and "going into retirement" if this appointment comes to pass.

The appointment has nothing to do with the betterment of the team. It is a vulgar PR and seat selling exercise.

But these 'friends' stuck by us during the lofty days of Stan??

I reckon your 'friends' may not know as much about football as they'd like to think they do.

Fr Tod Umptious

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Whether he spent 240million at Leicester,what relivance does this have to him being an International manager?

The early perception about MON was that he was a manager that got the most out of modest squads
Which is a brilliant trait for an International manager to have
That perception however was changed during his time at Villia and Sunderland where it seemed he was more of a cheque book manager

So I went back and looked at his Leicester spending to see if he really was doing want he did on a modest budget or had the years blurred the lines between reality and perception

And the result is that as Leicester manager between the end of '95 and mid '00 he spend approx £24m
Which seems a high figure for a smallish club like Leicester

£3.9m for Darren Eadie (but I think he got injured)
£1.5m for journeyman Steve Claridge, on his seventh transfer by the time he got to Leicester
£2.4m for some guy called Gunnalaugsson ?

Some though did become big names with Leicester
Muzzy Izzet £1m
Andy Impey £2.7m
Frank Sinclair £2.6m
Matt Elliot £2.1m

Pighead

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The early perception about MON was that he was a manager that got the most out of modest squads
Which is a brilliant trait for an International manager to have
That perception however was changed during his time at Villia and Sunderland where it seemed he was more of a cheque book manager

So I went back and looked at his Leicester spending to see if he really was doing want he did on a modest budget or had the years blurred the lines between reality and perception

And the result is that as Leicester manager between the end of '95 and mid '00 he spend approx £24m
Which seems a high figure for a smallish club like Leicester

It's ridiculous to just count how much he spent. You need to take into account the money he took in as well. All in all he spent about 9m net in four and a half seasons. That's about 2m a season.

Considering the success he brought the club I'd wager the owners were pretty pleased with what they got back for their money.

Dempsey

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The early perception about MON was that he was a manager that got the most out of modest squads
Which is a brilliant trait for an International manager to have
That perception however was changed during his time at Villia and Sunderland where it seemed he was more of a cheque book manager

So I went back and looked at his Leicester spending to see if he really was doing want he did on a modest budget or had the years blurred the lines between reality and perception

And the result is that as Leicester manager between the end of '95 and mid '00 he spend approx £24m
Which seems a high figure for a smallish club like Leicester

£3.9m for Darren Eadie (but I think he got injured)
£1.5m for journeyman Steve Claridge, on his seventh transfer by the time he got to Leicester
£2.4m for some guy called Gunnalaugsson ?

Some though did become big names with Leicester
Muzzy Izzet £1m
Andy Impey £2.7m
Frank Sinclair £2.6m
Matt Elliot £2.1m

I'd include Celtic in the ideology that he was a cheque book manager. No other Celtic manager in their history got the spending power he did and he inherited Henrik Larsson. If Neil Lennons Celtic had Larsson he'd be giving Europe's elite some right headaches!

Fr Tod Umptious

Pighead wrote: »

It's ridiculous to just count how much he spent. You need to take into account the money he took in as well. All in all he spent about 9m net in four and a half seasons. That's about 2m a season.

Considering the success he brought the club I'd wager the owners were pretty pleased with what they got back for their money.

Firstly where is your source for the bit in bold ?

Here are the figures for each full year that he was in charge - source
96/97 - Bought 8.4m - Sold 1.9m - Diff -6.5m
97/98 - Bought 2.2m - Sold 1.1m - Diff -1.1m
98/99 - Bought 7.8m - Sold 0 - Diff -7.8m
99/00 - Bought 5.5m - Sold 14.5m - Diff 9m

The big difference in 99/00 and the rest is that they sold Hesky who came through their youth system to Liverpool for 14.5m, thus the +9m balance

I have no doubt the owners were happy, but that is not the point, the point is that at Leicester he seems to be a guy with lots of disposable cash.

I though that during his time there he was a man to get the most out of modest resources, but after looking at the numbers I am less convinced, and thus I am less convinced about his suitability as an international manager

Oh, and didn't Leicester end up in administration in the early '00s ?

Fr Tod Umptious

Dempsey wrote: »

I'd include Celtic in the ideology that he was a cheque book manager. No other Celtic manager in their history got the spending power he did and he inherited Henrik Larsson. If Neil Lennons Celtic had Larsson he'd be giving Europe's elite some right headaches!

I have deliberately avoided looking at his spending at Celtic as it was a two horse league at the time and Celtic were always guaranteed European action in some shape or form

Dempsey

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I have deliberately avoided looking at his spending at Celtic as it was a two horse league at the time and Celtic were always guaranteed European action in some shape or form

Before MON, tell me when Celtic had notable European success? Tell me when Celtic dominated Scottish Football?

To disregard the success & spending power of Rangers during the 90's, the huge problems at Celtic during the 90's and then the backing he got to end the "for every £5 then spend we'll spend £10" is stupid and ignorant of what actually happened. He deserves alot of credit for what he did but he was a cheque book manager at Celtic and that was evident after the Seville run when Celtic board cut off the money due to the debt he racked up.

RoryMac

Dempsey wrote: »

I'd include Celtic in the ideology that he was a cheque book manager. No other Celtic manager in their history got the spending power he did and he inherited Henrik Larsson. If Neil Lennons Celtic had Larsson he'd be giving Europe's elite some right headaches!

That's pretty unfair on him I have to say, yes he spent good money but he was working on off a base that was far below his rivals and massive investment was needed. He initially bought really well at Celtic and a good amount of the players signed became legends at our club.

He built at squad and more importantly an attitude at the club that we should fear nobody and without that God knows where we'd be now.

All of his strengths suit international football. The failings he had at Celtic and other clubs after were in contact negotiations and signings and that's not an issue here.

I would say the lack of Robertson on board is a negative but there's not going to be a huge amount of coaching done in the time frame allowed for international football

Pighead

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Firstly where is your source for the bit in bold ?

Here are the figures for each full year that he was in charge - source
96/97 - Bought 8.4m - Sold 1.9m - Diff -6.5m
97/98 - Bought 2.2m - Sold 1.1m - Diff -1.1m
98/99 - Bought 7.8m - Sold 0 - Diff -7.8m
99/00 - Bought 5.5m - Sold 14.5m - Diff 9m

The big difference in 99/00 and the rest is that they sold Hesky who came through their youth system to Liverpool for 14.5m, thus the +9m balance

I have no doubt the owners were happy, but that is not the point, the point is that at Leicester he seems to be a guy with lots of disposable cash.

I though that during his time there he was a man to get the most out of modest resources, but after looking at the numbers I am less convinced, and thus I am less convinced about his suitability as an international manager

Oh, and didn't Leicester end up in administration in the early '00s ?

Using your figures he spent under 6m net for four seasons. You also pointed to his Claridge tranfer for 1.5m as it was a mistake. Claridge scored the winner in the play off final to get them to the premiership. He also scored the winner in the league cup final. Also got back about 600,000 for him.

You fail to mention he bought Lennon for just over a million who went on to be sold for nearly 9m. Also bought Robbie Savage for half a million and got back over 2m.

And it's unfair to blame O'Neill for the club going into administration. They built a new stadium and got relegated after a couple of seasons after he left. They obviously had banked on staying in the premier league when building the new stadium.

Looks to me like a bit of a hatchet job to be honest. Using his Leicester City days to criticise him seems very odd. You've got way more material from his Villa and Sunderland stints.

COYW

RoryMac wrote: »

I reckon your 'friends' may not know as much about football as they'd like to think they do.

Because they take issue with the nature of this appointment? Let's face it, this appointment is all about filling Lansdowne on match days and generating revenue. In footballing terms, we are getting nothing new. It'll be the same ultra cautious football.

devotional1993 wrote: »

Ever notice the people who say that are usually barstoolers who never set foot in the Aviva

No regular match goer calls the stadium that.

RoryMac

COYW wrote: »

Because they take issue with the nature of this appointment? Let's face it, this appointment is all about filling Lansdowne on match days and generating revenue.

Do your imaginary friends believe MON is a worse signing than Stan?

He's a very competent manager and well capable of putting a side out that will challenge for qualification it's not like they've picked some guy on the back of his football manager cv.

Dempsey

RoryMac wrote: »

That's pretty unfair on him I have to say, yes he spent good money but he was working on off a base that was far below his rivals and massive investment was needed. He initially bought really well at Celtic and a good amount of the players signed became legends at our club.

He built at squad and more importantly an attitude at the club that we should fear nobody and without that God knows where we'd be now.

All of his strengths suit international football. The failings he had at Celtic and other clubs after were in contact negotiations and signings and that's not an issue here.

I would say the lack of Robertson on board is a negative but there's not going to be a huge amount of coaching done in the time frame allowed for international football

I never disputed his ability to motivate players & I never claimed that his business acumen was a requirement of the Ireland job.

I dont think I'm doing him a disservice tbh, what he did for Celtic is set a modern, achievable benchmark, one to measure success against rather than the impossible Lisbon Lions era. Celtic fans hung on almost his every word in media interviews because he instilled a belief that was missing for over a decade really. His influence at Celtic isnt lost on me nor am I bitter towards MON in any way

The key issue for me is when clubs decided they werent going to bankroll him anymore, when they told him to deal with whats he's got and basically his influence petered out. How is he going to keep a limited pool of player invigorated such as the Irish International Pool, when at club level, he's time at clubs quickly ended when he could not change out players as he would have liked? As I said earlier in this thread, when his options are limited, he's very poor.

Not having Robertson is an issue, unless he plans to play every match with the exact same tactics and we wont last long if that happens tbh. Coaching at International Level is important, its a short time frame to get specific tactics and integrate players into a system for a specific match. Arguably, you need the best coaches to achieve this.

RoryMac

Dempsey wrote: »

I never disputed his ability to motivate players & I never claimed that his business acumen was a requirement of the Ireland job.

I dont think I'm doing him a disservice tbh, what he did for Celtic is set a modern, achievable benchmark, one to measure success against rather than the impossible Lisbon Lions era. Celtic fans hung on almost his every word in media interviews because he instilled a belief that was missing for over a decade really. His influence at Celtic isnt lost on me nor am I bitter towards MON in any way

The key issue for me is when clubs decided they werent going to bankroll him anymore, when they told him to deal with whats he's got and basically his influence petered out. How is he going to keep a limited pool of player invigorated such as the Irish International Pool, when at club level, he's time at clubs quickly ended when he could not change out players as he would have liked? As I said earlier in this thread, when his options are limited, he's very poor.

Not having Robertson is an issue, unless he plans to play every match with the exact same tactics and we wont last long if that happens tbh. Coaching at International Level is important, its a short time frame to get specific tactics and integrate players into a system for a specific match. Arguably, you need the best coaches to achieve this.

As you said he instilled a belief in the club and he did this in a short time, this imo is crucial to international management. The manager needs to put across his ideas and have the players buy into it in a short space of time and MON has done that at every club he managed.

That influence may well start to diminish over time but in international management I'd hope it takes a little longer due to the number of games.

I'd disagree on the level of coaching involved in international management as I think the amount of time allowed means only the basics are worked on unless we qualify for a tournament. Most of the work done is basic offensive and defensive set pieces and again that is not an area any of his teams lacked in.

Dempsey

RoryMac wrote: »

As you said he instilled a belief in the club and he did this in a short time, this imo is crucial to international management. The manager needs to put across his ideas and have the players buy into it in a short space of time and MON has done that at every club he managed.

That influence may well start to diminish over time but in international management I'd hope it takes a little longer due to the number of games.

I'd disagree on the level of coaching involved in international management as I think the amount of time allowed means only the basics are worked on unless we qualify for a tournament. Most of the work done is basic offensive and defensive set pieces and again that is not an area any of his teams lacked in.

TBH, you ignored the key issue I raised and its been evident at Sunderland, Aston Villa & Celtic. If he could deal with that particular issue, I dont think he'd be available at the moment tbh.

The last time he truly motivated average players was at Leicester because the likes of Sutton, Hartson, Larsson, Lennon, Lambert, Mjallby, Petrov, McNamara etc were far from average players despite what EPL fanboys convince themselves of.

RoryMac

Dempsey wrote: »

TBH, you ignored the key issue I raised and its been evident at Sunderland, Aston Villa & Celtic. If he could deal with that particular issue, I dont think he'd be available at the moment tbh.

The last time he truly motivated average players was at Leicester because the likes of Sutton, Hartson, Larsson, Lennon, Lambert, Mjallby, Petrov, McNamara etc were far from average players despite what EPL fanboys convince themselves of.

I agree we had quality players at Celtic during that time but we still punched above our weight in Europe imo, we were a little unlucky at times in the champ lge while achieving decent point totals in the group stages.

Villa finished in the top 6 a couple of times while being well below the quality of the top teams so I don't think he did a bad job there aside from a bad signing record.

At Sunderland I'd agree he didn't do too well although that is offset a little by they being a bit of a poisoned chalice.

Outside of spending massive money which I think would cause all kinds of issues at this time I struggle to see a better candidate.

MON isn't a guarantee of success but imo he's the best option we have at present, the Keane addon does worry me though