Who are the candidates for the Ireland job?

Dempsey

Dont remind me of the likes of Lyon, depressing! The history books dont remember that or the other ****e that happened us!

Villa was a cheque book effort if you ask me with a nice turnover of first team players. No stagnation of players or team morale so his motivational techniques still worked...

I want MON to be a success, I will not cut my nose off to spite my face on this but I've great reservations despite the expansion of the Euros and talks of expanding the World Cup. If Keane is hired, I want him to be a success too but I see faults I cant ignore. Another point is, why hire at this time of year? Whats the rush when you need a guy to deliver over spans of 2-4 years minimum not seasons.

EDIT

I do disagree about the coaching at international level, it requires very good coaching for players for alot of reasons

RoryMac

Dempsey wrote: »

Dont remind me of the likes of Lyon, depressing! The history books dont remember that or the other ****e that happened us!

Villa was a cheque book effort if you ask me with a nice turnover of first team players. No stagnation of players or team morale so his motivational techniques still worked...

I want MON to be a success, I will not cut my nose off to spite my face on this but I've great reservations despite the expansion of the Euros and talks of expanding the World Cup. If Keane is hired, I want him to be a success too but I see faults I cant ignore. Another point is, why hire at this time of year? Whats the rush when you need a guy to deliver over spans of 2-4 years minimum not seasons.

I don't see a reason to delay an appointment if the candidate meets the criteria, I'd like to see the new manager in as soon as possible to get time to watch as many players as possible and speak to the ones on the fringes.

Perhaps by delaying it a better candidate will become available but there's a good chance we'll end up missing out on a decent manager too.

MON for me has enough going for him to get the job and the idea of delaying and ending up with a Stan mark 2 is enough to get the deal done.

I am a little worried that he might not be up to the job but I really don't see a better candidate at this point

Paully D

Dempsey wrote: »

Not having Robertson is an issue, unless he plans to play every match with the exact same tactics and we wont last long if that happens tbh. Coaching at International Level is important, its a short time frame to get specific tactics and integrate players into a system for a specific match. Arguably, you need the best coaches to achieve this.

This will happen, 100%, unless he's had some sort of Eureka moment in the last few months where he has realised you can't use the same tactics in every single game. The Villa lads told me he wouldn't change tactics and this was very true at Sunderland. From day one to his last day, the tactics were the exact same. So predictable, and so easy to play against.

O'Neill is not a good coach, hence why it is well know that for the most part he doesn't bother doing training sessions and why John Robertson was so important to him.

I'm not so sure Keane is a good coach either to be honest and feel he did his best work in the dressing room. All the reports I heard out of Sunderland were that he wasn't exactly on the training ground much himself, see this Guardian article from the time of his departure which stated that ''Keane failed to attend any of Sunderland's training sessions this week - a not uncommon occurrence.'' When he did take sessions he was know to often get frustrated as the players weren't able to do the things he was able to do with his proverbial eyes closed, given how good he was as a player.

O'Neill and Keane are very, very similar IMO. Both cut from the same Brian Clough cloth. I think the O'Neill appointment is a poor one anyway but I feel you need your #1 and #2 to be able to bounce things off each other and see things from a different viewpoint for maximum affect. I don't see that happening with these two.

yabadabado

devotional1993 wrote: »

Its an appointment to gets bums on seats. Last thing we need is that Knob Keane back near this Irish team. Well done John Delaney on filling the aviva for the Latvia match. A complete circus around Roy Keane. It will be like Old Trafford in there with Man UTD jerseys.

You are a pathetic **** and thats coming from someone who doesn't want O'Neill or Keane involved.

yabadabado

Didn't take long to get the infraction but well worth it.

Lennonist

Dempsey wrote: »

TBH, you ignored the key issue I raised and its been evident at Sunderland, Aston Villa & Celtic. If he could deal with that particular issue, I dont think he'd be available at the moment tbh.

The last time he truly motivated average players was at Leicester because the likes of Sutton, Hartson, Larsson, Lennon, Lambert, Mjallby, Petrov, McNamara etc were far from average players despite what EPL fanboys convince themselves of.

Momo Sylla was a kind of cult figure with the Celtic fans, they used to sing his name to encourage him. I think they saw him as a player with very limited ability but who wanted to live his dream to be a professional footballer. When Celtic went to Anfield in '03 after the drawn leg at Parkhead, Liverpool were strong favourites to progress. Sylla played like a man possessed that night. In those 90 minutes he fulfilled every ounce of potential he had in him to play football.

There were other examples, Ramon Vega was great in Europe during a brief stint under O'Neill and disappeared back into obscurity and bench warming at other clubs when he left. Liam Miller looked a player under O'Neill, Didier Agathe bought for 35k from Hibs - O'Neill got the best out of him. There are more examples I'm sure of O'Neill getting the best out of what could be termed limited or moderately talented players during his time at Celtic.

Frankie Lee

That is all a long time ago now though.

Lennonist

Frankie Lee wrote: »

That is all a long time ago now though.

Well we are going to find out if he can do that sort of thing again. I'm confident he will, I think the nature of the international job in particular will suit him.

Keane's appointment is intriguing, will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Pro. F

Most people are saying that MON's transfer record isn't important because he won't be buying players in the international job, but imo it is important because it shows us what sort of a judge of players he is. Based on how we have seen him spend his budgets at club level he doesn't look so sharp in that regard.

Maybe himself and Roy will find some sort of perfect managerial balance and will end up picking our best footballers and encouraging them to play sensible football. Hopefully that's the way it works out, it's certainly not impossible. I think what is more likely though is that they end up picking a few too many athletes and encouraging the team to play a fair bit too direct.

Even if that is the case it could still go okay. The Euros will be easy to qualify for and we have a decent pool of players. But for the money being spent I feel we should be looking for a far more progressive manager.

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

Most people are saying that MON's transfer record isn't important because he won't be buying players in the international job, but imo it is important because it shows us what sort of a judge of players he is. Based on how we have seen him spend his budgets at club level he doesn't look so sharp in that regard.

Maybe himself and Roy will find some sort of perfect managerial balance and will end up picking our best footballers and encouraging them to play sensible football. Hopefully that's the way it works out, it's certainly not impossible. I think what is more likely though is that they end up picking a few too many athletes and encouraging the team to play a fair bit too direct.

Even if that is the case it could still go okay. The Euros will be easy to qualify for and we have a decent pool of players. But for the money being spent I feel we should be looking for a far more progressive manager.

You'd imagine keane would appreciated the need for balance and some guile considering who he was in with for years.

simongurnick

I don't understand the talk of a "cheque book" manger;
1. If the club provides him money, what do you think he'll do with it!?
2. almost ever manager nowadays could be considered a cheque book manager

I'm not the biggest fan of this appointment but the talk of it just being for the FAI to sell tickets is ridiculous...as someone else pointed out, MON is seeking out Keane.

And for anyone on here who thought Trapp treated players badly...expect Keane to give these young prima donna's equally short thrift.

SuperInfinity

simongurnick wrote: »

And for anyone on here who thought Trapp treated players badly...expect Keane to give these young prima donna's equally short thrift.

But are they prepared to take it from him, and is Keane himself really level-headed and objective enough to know when to get tough etc.? When Keane saw the youngsters in Man United late on in his career, it's as though he viewed them as a threat and he had a real go at many of them. His managerial career so far hasn't exactly been an unrequited success.

If you divide people up into the testosterone-fueled, go-getter, dramatic, now-or-nothing type vs the patient, hard-working, subtle, background type of people, Roy Keane surely fits into the former while Niall Quinn is an example of the latter. He might work hard on something for a while but to be in the background the whole time doesn't sound like it'll suit him to me. Wasn't he even making headlines about his interview technique when he was manager? You'd want Roy Keane as your leader in battle, but MON as the general making plans in the background. Which may be sort of the idea in some ways.

I think there's a high chance that Keane will either quit or be pushed out before the end of the next qualifying campaign.

SantryRed

I just hope they even tried to approach Hiddink and didn't just go straight for this one.

Fr Tod Umptious

Pighead wrote: »

Using your figures he spent under 6m net for four seasons. You also pointed to his Claridge tranfer for 1.5m as it was a mistake. Claridge scored the winner in the play off final to get them to the premiership. He also scored the winner in the league cup final. Also got back about 600,000 for him.

You fail to mention he bought Lennon for just over a million who went on to be sold for nearly 9m. Also bought Robbie Savage for half a million and got back over 2m.

And it's unfair to blame O'Neill for the club going into administration. They built a new stadium and got relegated after a couple of seasons after he left. They obviously had banked on staying in the premier league when building the new stadium.

Looks to me like a bit of a hatchet job to be honest. Using his Leicester City days to criticise him seems very odd. You've got way more material from his Villa and Sunderland stints.

Ha Ha
Lennon is hardly a good example seeing as it was O'Neill , who had a wad of cash at Celtic, who paid the £7.5 million for him.

The reason I am using his Leicester City days to criticise him is because it was during his time there that the idea emerged that he was a guy who could do a lot with little resources
It was something I always believed myself, until I looked at the numbers and now I am not that convinced.
And as I result I am not convinced that he would be a good fit for the Ireland job

keeponhurling

simongurnick wrote: »

And for anyone on here who thought Trapp treated players badly...expect Keane to give these young prima donna's equally short thrift.

But wouldn't Keane not be sympathetic to these lads, seeing as he was never the most enthusiastic himself about playing for Ireland?
He wasn't a fan of friendlies, retired early etc.

It's like the lads in the FAI just got drunk and thought of how they could make a controversial appointment and went down this route. It's just bizarre but I'm going to get behind them & the team. People saying they won't go to games because of it is just pathetic. Give it a chance and lets see what happens.

Pighead

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ha Ha
Lennon is hardly a good example seeing as it was O'Neill , who had a wad of cash at Celtic, who paid the £7.5 million for him.

The reason I am using his Leicester City days to criticise him is because it was during his time there that the idea emerged that he was a guy who could do a lot with little resources
It was something I always believed myself, until I looked at the numbers and now I am not that convinced.
And as I result I am not convinced that he would be a good fit for the Ireland job

Lennon went for a big fee because he developed into a pretty decent midfielder. He was a great buy for Leicester and he was also a great buy for Celtic becoming their team captain. O'Neill wanted him at Celtic, Leicester placed a valuation on Lennon's head and Celtic payed it. Not sure what's funny about it?

Check the Leicester figures again and you will see when you balance out the purchases with the sales he spent fcuk all over four years in relation to the unprecedented success he brought to the club.

Dolph Starbeam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's like the lads in the FAI just got drunk and thought of how they could make a controversial appointment and went down this route. It's just bizarre but I'm going to get behind them & the team. People saying they won't go to games because of it is just pathetic. Give it a chance and lets see what happens.

How many times does it have to be said that it is MON that wants Keane as part of his team, it's not the FAI searching him out. If Keane had any inkling this was the FAIs plan to sell match tickets I'm confident he'd tell them to stuff it very quickly.

SantryRed

YayaBanana wrote: »

How many times does it have to be said that it is MON that wants Keane as part of his team, it's not the FAI searching him out. If Keane had any inkling this was the FAIs plan to sell match tickets I'm confident he'd tell them to stuff it very quickly.

They probably should have just took away the offer then :pac:

TheDoc

YayaBanana wrote: »

How many times does it have to be said that it is MON that wants Keane as part of his team, it's not the FAI searching him out. If Keane had any inkling this was the FAIs plan to sell match tickets I'm confident he'd tell them to stuff it very quickly.

I'd say Keane is wise enough to realise he needs to go two steps back to take one forward.

I don't think any club would come near him for an appointment to be fair. He needs to knuckle down big time, and actually learn something. He got thrown into the mix with Sunderland etc.

He will have a few years at the minimum to learn alot, and not be directly in the spotlight. Depending on how things go, the number two gives the lashings when the manager can't, or gives the comfort when the manager is fuming. He will hopefully learn alot about modern players, man management and just in general how to coach and manage.

If he can adequatly deal with the level of players he will be working with, work a bit on his people skills, he can be a big success, firmly believe it. He just needs to realise that there is no room in the modern game for a Brian Clough impersonation

eyescreamcone

What would be regarded as success for O'Neill and Keane?

Top 2 in the groups for France 2016 AND Russia 2018?

Along the lines of what Trappatoni achieved?

TheDoc

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What would be regarded as success for O'Neill and Keane?

Top 2 in the groups for France 2016 AND Russia 2018?

Along the lines of what Trappatoni achieved?

If you are signing that sort of household name for the position, your expecting qualification, and thats the problem imo.

When you have the squad we have, and the drought of talent behind it coming up, expectations should be realisticly set as qualifications being bonuses' but the mian target becoming competitive, playing modern football, bringing fans back to the stadium and providing some form of platform for Irish players to merge into the national team. And then obviously improve our ranking.

If you hire a relatively unknown/inexperienced manager then you probably buy yourself that time and trial and error. Similar to a Rodgers to Liverpool appointment. Completely reset the expectations, and let the team and manager grow and build their ideas, and eventually, the hope is rewards will come.

However with this appointment, and people buying into the media line that O'Neill is a "top class" manager ( cringe when I hear it) expectations are being skewed, and the base achievement will be qualification for tournaments. And you know what, ****it. For the money they are going to get, and considering the name O'Neill has got himself from little achievement, I'm gonig to expect qualification also, especially with the Euro's format changing.

tayto lover

O'Neill and Keane will not work in my opinion.
O'Neill is a hoof ball manager and Keane is a hothead.
How long before the big bust-up and we are back at square one?

SuperInfinity

tayto lover wrote: »

O'Neill and Keane will not work in my opinion.
O'Neill is a hoof ball manager and Keane is a hothead.
How long before the big bust-up and we are back at square one?

I'm sure Keane will be on his best behaviour at first but can't see him going through the whole first campaign without getting his name in the headlines in dramatic fashion.

Roy Keane is like a wolf, you can't keep him as a pet. He may make friends and appear to work well for a while in a domestic setting, but deep down he is always trying to gain dominance and control, like his first days at Nottingham Forrest. The wolf in him will always come out. What we saw at Man United in the last days were a desperate last attempt for him to retain control at the top. It's all a bit of an anti-climax for him after that.

yabadabado

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1105/484722-fai-confirm-oneill-as-new-ireland-manager/
O'Neill and Keane to be unveiled on Saturday.

Paully D

Interesting reading this back over 18 months later.

Rikand

Bring back Trapp!

Oat23

The next man will fail too, because there isn't a coach in the world that could make Ireland any better. Stop paying the managers/coaches of the NT so much money and invest it in grassroots. Maybe some day in the future I'll be able to watch a game again.

The final nail in our NTs coffin went in the day Conor Sammon won a cap. We need change.

The O'Neill and Keane team costs €2m a year and the coach of the world champions is on €2.8m.

tayto lover

Bring back Mick. At least he had passion.

Shanotheslayer

I don't even think Mourinho could manage us.

Paully D

Oat23 wrote: »

The O'Neill and Keane team costs €2m a year and the coach of the world champions is on €2.8m.

Shows that, despite everything else, it's possible to attract a very decent manager, especially at international level, who would be able to get the most out of what we have for a reachable salary.

tastyt

It's about time roddy was given the opportunity

CSF

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I don't even think Mourinho could manage us.

Would love to hear how you come to that conclusion, unless it was tongue in cheek, in which case I look silly.

Loads of lesser managers than Jose have made more of much lesser groups of players. Bit of organisation and purpose and a system that utilises the best players to their strengths goes a long way.

TheCitizen

Paully D wrote: »

Interesting reading this back over 18 months later.

Even more interesting to read back over it with the Euros on the horizon and Ireland's place in it secure.

Knex*

TheCitizen wrote: »

Even more interesting to read back over it with the Euros on the horizon and Ireland's place in it secure.

I still agree with this, although its obviously more recent:

Oat23 wrote: »

The next man will fail too, because there isn't a coach in the world that could make Ireland any better. Stop paying the managers/coaches of the NT so much money and invest it in grassroots. Maybe some day in the future I'll be able to watch a game again.

The final nail in our NTs coffin went in the day Conor Sammon won a cap. We need change.

The O'Neill and Keane team costs €2m a year and the coach of the world champions is on €2.8m.