Who are the candidates for the Ireland job?

Lennonist

Lennonist wrote: »

I'm talking to the guy who put up the post about stats that some people want to believe without them being properly linked to. I'm calling bullsh1t on his so called stats.

There appears to be an anti MON agenda among a certain cohort in this forum and I'm calling bullsh1t on that agenda. Thankfully it will have zero influence over whether MON gets the job or not:pac:.

The job will be offered to him as their first choice it appears and it'll be his decision to take it or not.

Nothing to do with an anti O'Neill agenda.

Caveman football from an overrated manager would be most people's problem with the guy.

Fr Tod Umptious

Ormus wrote: »

I doubt that was the reason. Fergie rarely changed formation or tactics in all the time he managed United for example.

Maybe I did not explain the point well enough or you have no idea what I am talking about

Lennonist

rarnes1 wrote: »

Nothing to do with an anti O'Neill agenda.

Caveman football from an overrated manager would be most people's problem with the guy.

Perhaps you're right about that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as they say, agenda or no agenda.

O'Neill is not a perfect manager but he's a very good one who would suit the international game for Ireland at this stage in his career, and Ireland would do well to get him in my view. I hope he takes the job because I'm confident he'll be a success in the role. In the real world I would say he will get universal support from the Irish soccer public and he's held in high regard in relation to his record with the vast majority of them.

who_ru

i think we all know O Neill is going to get it. The board of the FAI is as big a problem for football in this country as having the wrong man in charge of the national team.

Remember O Neill lost out to Steve McClaren for the england job after he expressed no interest in developing grassroots football in england, McClaren did and the rest is history.

I certainly don't want O' Neill in the job, i've said elsewhere on this thread it will just be more hoof ball under him.

I'm not too optimistic on the development of football in this country.

Engine No.9

Maybe we should petition Tubs to get Delaney on the Late Late and justify his position to the public :pac::pac::pac:

listermint

Lennonist wrote: »

Perhaps you're right about that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as they say, agenda or no agenda.

O'Neill is not a perfect manager but he's a very good one who would suit the international game for Ireland at this stage in his career, and Ireland would do well to get him in my view. I hope he takes the job because I'm confident he'll be a success in the role. In the real world I would say he will get universal support from the Irish soccer public and he's held in high regard in relation to his record with the vast majority of them.

Your wrong, I dont know any Irish Supporters home or abroad who actually want him in the job. Stop reading the Star for facts.

Not one of my mates have put their head above the parapet saying they would like to see him in the job and they are all loud mouths. Contrary to that they have everything negative to say about his football style.

I am pie

Lennonist wrote: »

Perhaps you're right about that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as they say, agenda or no agenda.

O'Neill is not a perfect manager but he's a very good one who would suit the international game for Ireland at this stage in his career, and Ireland would do well to get him in my view. I hope he takes the job because I'm confident he'll be a success in the role. In the real world I would say he will get universal support from the Irish soccer public and he's held in high regard in relation to his record with the vast majority of them.

You don't speak for the vast majority of Ireland fans, O'Neills poor record outside of the SPL speaks for itself. Managing Celtic in a 2 horse race is vastly different from managing a country in international tournaments with limited playing resources.

DeanAustin

I am pie wrote: »

You don't speak for the vast majority of Ireland fans, O'Neills poor record outside of the SPL speaks for itself. Managing Celtic in a 2 horse race is vastly different from managing a country in international tournaments with limited playing resources.

I'm no O'Neill fan but he was hardly poor at Wycombe, Leicester or Villa. He didn't last pissing time at Norwich and was poor at Sunderland. He's a mixed bag, not a genius and not a dope.

Personally, I hope he doesn't get it because he won't be much of a step forward. His brand of football is dire.

loyatemu

I am pie wrote: »

O'Neills poor record outside of the SPL speaks for itself.

does it? He won the league cup twice with Leicester and had them consistently finishing in the top half of the Premiership; he finished 6th with Villa 3 years in a row and got them to a cup final.

obviously you can counter that with arguments about how much money he spent and the style of football he played, but its not a poor record and it doesn't speak for itself.

devotional1993

Speculation wont matter now. MON will be our next gaffer. Worst kept secret is , he is taking it and it will be announced by next week when he gets his backroom team sorted.

The_Kew_Tour

MON was odds against yesterday which looked very nice. Very much so now.

bohsfan

I had a few minutes on my break to spare, so I searched around for some win % stats. I found out the ones below before I got bored! These all come from the relevant Wiki page, so terms and conditions apply etc. etc.

Martin O'Neill (6 clubs)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 51.51% (-Celtic: 40.42%)

Mick McCarthy- (4 clubs, 1 nation) - Overall Career Win Percentage: 39.29% (Ireland: 42.65%)

Steve McLaren - (5 clubs, 1 nation)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 44.89% (England: 50%)

Roy Keane (2 clubs)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 38.67%

Pat Fenlon (4 clubs)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 53.63% (Hibs: 35.44%)

Paul Jewell (5 clubs)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 38.47%

David O’Leary (3 clubs)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 44.28%

Bert vanMarwijk (3 clubs, 1 nation)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 55.64% (Holland: 65.38%)

Out of interest:

Giovanni Trappatoni (11 clubs, 2 nations)- Overall Career Win Percentage: 51.81% (Ireland: 40.63%)

Of course- win percentages are pretty meaningless in isolation. But there seems to be an obsession around them, so I had to check them out!

roanoke

I watched the 2003 Uefa Cup final last night to try get a feel for O'Neill's style and it didn't really seem to be like what I've been reading about in this thread. Celtic were definitely outplayed by Porto in the game but I didn't see much of this "long ball to the big fella" that I'd been expecting from reading the posts on this thread. Was that performance typical of how he sets his teams out, because if it is then I could probably live with it.

The_Kew_Tour

Bert it is then:P

roanoke

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Bert it is then:P

Don't forget to get Ernie Faber too!

Idbatterim

what kind of money will he be on? Say it is MON lads, what is acceptable expectation wise? 3rd in group acceptable, anything less a failure?

The_Kew_Tour

Idbatterim wrote: »

what kind of money will he be on? Say it is MON lads, what is acceptable expectation wise? 3rd in group acceptable, anything less a failure?

depends on what he gets.

When Trap was on 1.7 million or whatever it was I expected 2nd at worst. For that money you want the very best.

eyescreamcone

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

depends on what he gets.

When Trap was on 1.7 million or whatever it was I expected 2nd at worst. For that money you want the very best.

You do know that our results are determined ultimately by the players abilities.

If you get Mourinho/Guardiola/Capello/Hiddink and you pay him 10 million a year we still won't win the group.

The_Kew_Tour

eyescreamcone wrote: »

You do know that our results are determined ultimately by the players abilities.

If you get Mourinho/Guardiola/Capello/Hiddink and you pay him 10 million a year we still won't win the group.

Bulgaria, Slovakia and Sweden all being 2nd seeds in the groups we are in I would expect 2nd place in each for 1.7 million.

We did for 2.

Coillte_Bhoy

I am pie wrote: »

You don't speak for the vast majority of Ireland fans, O'Neills poor record outside of the SPL speaks for itself. Managing Celtic in a 2 horse race is vastly different from managing a country in international tournaments with limited playing resources.

lets just ignore his record in Europe then shall we?? :rolleyes:

loyatemu

there will be 53 countries competing for 23 places in the next qualifying campaign, the format is still to be decided (I'd guess there will still be some form of play-off round because they generate money & excitement), but qualification is a realistic prospect surely (we're 59th in the world, not sure where we are amongst UEFA members).

Corholio

The one thing that was evident in a lot of Villa games under O'Neill, despite his 6th place finishes that people keep banging on about, was his big problem of combating opposition tactics if the game wasn't going Villas way. Much too late or baffling substitutions being a common occurrence. He does employ wingers a lot and that's one thing I'd be hopeful for if he was managing, it's a part of the team I don't think Trap ever utilised properly. One plus of O'Neill becoming manager is that he won't be able to waste money on anyone either.

He'd certainly get the team motivated and probably allow the team to play a bit more, but make no mistake about it, the O'Neill today certainly isn't the big coup it would have seemed 6 or 7 years ago.

Godge

loyatemu wrote: »

there will be 53 countries competing for 23 places in the next qualifying campaign, the format is still to be decided (I'd guess there will still be some form of play-off round because they generate money & excitement), but qualification is a realistic prospect surely (we're 59th in the world, not sure where we are amongst UEFA members).

8 groups of 6 (1 of 5) = 9 groups

Top two qualify automatically = 18
Best third place team qualifies +1 = 19
8 other third-place teams play off for four places + 4 = 23

No doubt UEFA will think of something more absurd.

We are ranked 30th in Europe according to the FIFA rankings - I excluded France. That would make us fourth seeds, we would need to move up to 27th overall and overtake three of Finland, Armenia, Iceland, Wales, Turkey, Austria and Albania, all of whom are ranked above us.

We could conceivably get a draw that included Spain, England and Serbia. Good luck even getting a play-off place.

Of course you could also get Switzerland, Slovenia and Armenia.

Lennonist

listermint wrote: »

Your wrong, I dont know any Irish Supporters home or abroad who actually want him in the job. Stop reading the Star for facts.

Not one of my mates have put their head above the parapet saying they would like to see him in the job and they are all loud mouths. Contrary to that they have everything negative to say about his football style.

Is that right. Well I know lots of people, fellas I play soccer with and Irish supporters who are very favourable towards Martin O'Neill getting the Ireland job if he's offered it.

I think our anecdotal evidence is probably about as valid as "TheDoc's" stats:pac: contribution in post number 226 in the thread which inexplicably got "thanks" from 7 other gullible posters.:pac:

circadian

O'Neil maybe but his general attitude towards young players, (rarely playing them) bizzare or late subs and a standard 4-4-2 counter formation will pretty much be Trapp again, maybe with a wee bit more flair.

Gus Poyet for me.

galait

Delaney on Talksport saying he hopes Ireland Qualify for the next Euros in France and bring 70 or 80 thousand Irish Fans with them , Bonkers

Lennonist

circadian wrote: »

O'Neil maybe but his general attitude towards young players, (rarely playing them) bizzare or late subs and a standard 4-4-2 counter formation will pretty much be Trapp again, maybe with a wee bit more flair.

Gus Poyet for me.

This is another common mistake I see with posters here when commenting on MON. O'Neill didn't always play a rigid 4-4-2. O'Neill often deployed 4-5-1 when Celtic played in away games in Europe. He also often deployed a 3-5-2 with attacking wing backs.

Article here from The Journal.ie:

http://www.thescore.ie/opinion-martin-oneill-ireland-job-replace-trap-1078293-Sep2013/

Relevant quote from the article:

Moreover, rather than publicly ridiculing his players as Trapattoni has tended to do all too often, O’Neill would surely infuse the Irish team with the self-belief they so patently need. While his temperamental tendencies may not always please everyone, the Northern Irishman’s motivational skills are well documented. And his pragmatic approach with Celtic in Europe prompted him to adopt a 4-5-1 formation for most away games, so we would surely see an end to the dreaded 4-4-2 style relentlessly favoured by Trap were he to take over.

Frankie Lee

Lennonist wrote: »

This is another common mistake I see with posters here when commenting on MON. O'Neill didn't always play a rigid 4-4-2. O'Neill often deployed 4-5-1 when Celtic played in away games in Europe. He also often deployed a 3-5-2 with attacking wing backs.

Article here from The Journal.ie:

http://www.thescore.ie/opinion-martin-oneill-ireland-job-replace-trap-1078293-Sep2013/

Relevant quote from the article:

It is a long time since he last played a 3-5-2 formation, possibly 8 or 9 years ago.

homerjay2005

galait wrote: »

Delaney on Talksport saying he hopes Ireland Qualify for the next Euros in France and bring 70 or 80 thousand Irish Fans with them , Bonkers

what would you think we can take there?

we took over 30,000 to poland and France is far more accessible.

it wont be 70k, but it would be a large number.

Augmerson

Anything to be said for Brian Kerr getting the job again?

Lennonist

Frankie Lee wrote: »

It is a long time since he last played a 3-5-2 formation, possibly 8 or 9 years ago.

He could do it again if it suited him. He deployed these formations in Europe, I'd imagine he'd consider them if he became manager of an international side.

Backstreet Moyes

Augmerson wrote: »

Anything to be said for Brian Kerr getting the job again?

Cheap, Irish has good knowledge of the youth set up. Would not be a big name but in the long run it could be a good appointment.

LuckyLloyd

Augmerson wrote: »

Anything to be said for Brian Kerr getting the job again?

We could do a lot worse. I'd rather Kerr over O'Neill anyway.

briany

Augmerson wrote: »

Anything to be said for Brian Kerr getting the job again?

I think not. Although I've nothing but respect for Mr. Kerr, I wouldn't be mad about seeing him come back to the job. It's really a bit depressing that names like his and Mick's are being bandied about because I don't think either manager would be able to bring much new to the squad. They both had their chance. Kerr was given a somewhat raw deal in his dismissal but I think the team he led out to WC 2006 Qualifying underperformed pretty badly and the blame for that, whether right or wrong, will always fall at the managers feet.

weldoninhio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

We could do a lot worse. I'd rather Kerr over O'Neill anyway.

Yeah because his teams always play free-flowing football of the gods compared to O'Neills dinosaur tactics, oh wait, his only job since Ireland was with the Faroes.

Augmerson

Kerr should have been given more of a go, instead of replacing him with Staunton. I guess it says something about the state of affairs when previous managers are being thought about for the open position, but at least Kerr and McCarthy know Irish football.

Richard Hillman

O'Neills credentials are of 10+ years ago. He left the game for a while, the game evolved massively in that time and he didn't. Thus doing ok at Villa (after spending a **** load of cash) and flopping at Sunderland.

Martin O'Neill 10 years ago: Yay
Martin O'Neill today: Nay

I think Steve McLaren has similar and more modern credentials.

sawfish

Sir Alex Ferguson would be my first choice

Lennonist

Richard Hillman wrote: »

O'Neills credentials are of 10+ years ago. He left the game for a while, the game evolved massively in that time and he didn't. Thus doing ok at Villa (after spending a **** load of cash) and flopping at Sunderland.

Martin O'Neill 10 years ago: Yay
Martin O'Neill today: Nay

I think Steve McLaren has similar and more modern credentials.

Ah, is the argument against MON shifting slightly with some who have been against his appointment around here one wonders. He would've been ok 10 years ago but not now kind of shift:rolleyes:. Worm beginning to turn perhaps.

This is international football, the international game is perfectly suited to a man of MON's experience - the Irish job in particular.

It's no foregone conclusion that MON will take the job if offered it, hopefully he'll be offered it and hopefully he'll take it.

circadian

Still gunning for Poyet for this one. Good manager and would work well with the younger players coming through.

devotional1993

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah because his teams always play free-flowing football of the gods compared to O'Neills dinosaur tactics, oh wait, his only job since Ireland was with the Faroes.

True , but did a great job there with a bunch of no hopers.

LuckyLloyd

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah because his teams always play free-flowing football of the gods compared to O'Neills dinosaur tactics, oh wait, his only job since Ireland was with the Faroes.

And a pretty good job there he did too.

briany

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And a pretty good job there he did too.

Ah yes. Kerr did indeed do a good job with the Faroese team. He arrived there, looked at the team, assessed the potential and correctly surmised that this was an unskilled team so he set about giving them a rugged defensive shape, playing a negative brand of football which looked to hit teams on the counter and from set pieces. Worked for a couple of campaigns, too....

This all sounds eerily familiar.

superfurry1

I would just like a manager that can speak engrish okray!

No Gustavo Spanglish either please. Thank you.:P

simongurnick

Kerr and McLaren!?? Shoot me now

jossnjuice

All markets shut this morning.

FAI said its there one and only choice for the job.

LuckyLloyd

jossnjuice wrote: »

All markets shut this morning.

FAI said its there one and only choice for the job.

Link to FAI statement?

Lovely Bloke

Delaney probably said it in a drunken stupor

jossnjuice

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Link to FAI statement?

on twitter and SSN seemingly, dont have it to hand.

galait

jossnjuice wrote: »

on twitter and SSN seemingly, dont have it to hand.

Take your pick

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/?search=martin+o%27neill&JavaScript=1&lang=en