Who are the candidates for the Ireland job?

circadian

Lennonist wrote: »

This is another common mistake I see with posters here when commenting on MON. O'Neill didn't always play a rigid 4-4-2. O'Neill often deployed 4-5-1 when Celtic played in away games in Europe. He also often deployed a 3-5-2 with attacking wing backs.

Article here from The Journal.ie:

http://www.thescore.ie/opinion-martin-oneill-ireland-job-replace-trap-1078293-Sep2013/

Relevant quote from the article:

Still not enough for me. I watched his Villa team for three years and there were some great times admittedly. Most of it though was tough, especially in the second half of the season when the first 11 was exhausted since he rarely subbed and barely rotated.

International football is changing and the old school counter attack isn't as effective. IMO Shane Long is a great asset to the Ireland team but you can't expect him to get on the end of crosses from the wing all the time, it's not his game. Irelands youth players are generally more modern than their older counterparts, Jack Grealish for example.

A manager that is willing to devote the time to bringing in youth, scouting potential players and willing to change tactics without hesitation is what we need.

MON has none of these attributes. Yes he's a motivator and yes he can organise his teams well. He barely showed for training at Villa, hardly changed his setup and was ver predictable not to mention stubborn.

These are traits that will hold Ireland back. It's not 1994, we don't have a pool of players like we did then either.

Isn't it strange how irelands youth teams do well then crumble at senior level. There has to be a consistent progression that encourages younger players to continue their development.

DeanAustin

Richard Hillman wrote: »

O'Neills credentials are of 10+ years ago. He left the game for a while, the game evolved massively in that time and he didn't. Thus doing ok at Villa (after spending a **** load of cash) and flopping at Sunderland.

Martin O'Neill 10 years ago: Yay
Martin O'Neill today: Nay

I think Steve McLaren has similar and more modern credentials.

How has the game evolved massively and in such a way that Martin O'Neill cannot cope with it over the last 10 years (keeping in mind that he did pretty well with Villa 3-4 years ago even though he spunked a lot of money away)?

circadian

He had a squad that to a certain degree underperformed. Almost soley due to fatigue by the second half of the season.
If he had employed some sort of rotation they may well have fared better.

Not to mention throwing the Europa League matches.

Lennonist

circadian wrote: »

Still not enough for me. I watched his Villa team for three years and there were some great times admittedly. Most of it though was tough, especially in the second half of the season when the first 11 was exhausted since he rarely subbed and barely rotated.

International football is changing and the old school counter attack isn't as effective. IMO Shane Long is a great asset to the Ireland team but you can't expect him to get on the end of crosses from the wing all the time, it's not his game. Irelands youth players are generally more modern than their older counterparts, Jack Grealish for example.

A manager that is willing to devote the time to bringing in youth, scouting potential players and willing to change tactics without hesitation is what we need.

MON has none of these attributes. Yes he's a motivator and yes he can organise his teams well. He barely showed for training at Villa, hardly changed his setup and was ver predictable not to mention stubborn.

These are traits that will hold Ireland back. It's not 1994, we don't have a pool of players like we did then either.

Isn't it strange how irelands youth teams do well then crumble at senior level. There has to be a consistent progression that encourages younger players to continue their development.

I have a different experience watching his teams, where he was not as predictable in his set up or as adverse to introducing new talent if they were good enough as you appear to be saying. He will get the best out of the players we have and will bring in young players if they are good enough.

I think at this stage of his career, the international game will suit him and I think he has the experience and attributes to suit us. A perfect fit for the job in my view.

Backstreet Moyes

circadian wrote: »

He had a squad that to a certain degree underperformed. Almost soley due to fatigue by the second half of the season.
If he had employed some sort of rotation they may well have fared better.

Not to mention throwing the Europa League matches.

Are you serious a squad that underperformed. 6th three seasons in a row is a very good accomplishment especially when the top 4 was sown up each season. Splashing money doesn't mean you are going to be a success. He may have spent big money but he backed it up with results.

noodler

Augmerson wrote: »

Anything to be said for Brian Kerr getting the job again?

I'd rather have another mass tbh.

LuckyLloyd

There are a couple of things people would want to define in their heads with respect to the manager they want:

- Do you want the FAI to spend similar on salary as they did for Trapp or go higher if required?
- Is your priority free flowing football, i.e. Ireland's best effort at playing passing football as part of a currently popularised tactical approach?
- Is it necessary for the manager to take on a broader development role within the Irish game - i.e. be involved with youth teams on a strategic level; work on bringing younger players into the senior fold and take a longer term approach?

If it's 'no' on the first point then the managers we can hope to attract will be managers currently plying their trade in the championship or similar or guys who have been out of the English League system for a period and aren't in super high demand currently (O' Neill may very well be the top end of this equation).

If it's 'no' on the first point but 'yes' to the second you're talking about a very limited range of names who will be lacking much in the way of experience.

If it's 'no', 'yes', 'yes' then you've probably made it impossible to find a candidate who could do the job well at all.

=====================================

Reading the forum the past few days there seem to be lots of people who don't want a manager on a high wage; but want progressive football irrespective of results; but also want that manager to engage with the wider scope of Irish football and be long term and developmental in their approach.

In short 'lol'.

I don't agree with Lennonist on his opinion of O'Neil, but I will say that his position is clear and realistic - O'Neill is available and might be able to qualify us for a campaign and eke a couple of performances in a tournament setting. Don't expect him to be broad or developmental in his approach but it's a real option.

McCarthy
Keane
Kerr
Fenlon
Jewell
Pulis

These are all the types of names we could get. All flawed options in one form or another of course, but that's the reality of things when you don't have a salary budget in the €1.5 - €2m range.

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

These are all the types of names we could get. All flawed options in one form or another of course, but that's the reality of things when you don't have a salary budget in the €1.5 - €2m range.

If we can offer 1.5m-2m then we really, really should be going for as many high calibre applicants as possible (or headhutning them more appropriately).

I don't care how many Hiddink-class managers say no as long as we get one.

McCarthy the best from that list imo

LuckyLloyd

noodler wrote: »

If we can offer 1.5m-2m then we really, really should be going for as many high calibre applicants as possible (or headhutning them more appropriately).

I don't care how many Hiddink-class managers say no as long as we get one.

Absolutely! If you have the money you can make a Trappatoni / Hiddink calibre appointment happen. But if the money isn't there (and seems like people have a problem with the FAI spending that on salary) then O' Neill may well be the most accomplished candidate of the realistic pool available to us.

LuckyLloyd

rarnes1 wrote: »

McCarthy the best from that list imo

I'd be happy to have him back.

Unearthly

O'Neill will be a decent appointment. I can see him making us competitive but his style of football will mean people will want him sacked regardless of results.

LuckyLloyd

Unearthly wrote: »

O'Neill will be a decent appointment. I can see him making us competitive but his style of football will mean people will want him sacked regardless of results.

And if we bring in a Tony Mowbary type focussed on passing football playing kids, etc the minute we slip behind in qualification there will be plenty lining up wanting him sacked because the results aren't good enough.

You can't please everyone, so the best option is just to bring in whoever gives you the best chance of qualifying. In the lower wage bracket that's probably McCarthy with O'Neill not far off. In the higher wage bracket who knows - but if you pay enough a Hiddink or similar is gettable.

Pro. F

The FAI have said that Dennis O'Brien is along for the ride once more, so the wages on offer should be substantial. If they appoint O'Neill now I'll vomit.

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

The FAI have said that Dennis O'Brien is along for the ride once more, so the wages on offer should be substantial. If they appoint O'Neill now I'll vomit.

If he's along for the ride and they can offer the big bucks then, imo, they should do something like:

- hire Kerr or similar on a caretaker basis for the remainder of this campaign;
- use that time to hire a consultancy firm to secure a top tier manager;

I love McCarthy, but if we're playing with big cash we can do better.

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If he's along for the ride and they can offer the big bucks then, imo, they should do something like:

- hire Kerr or similar on a caretaker basis for the remainder of this campaign;
- use that time to hire a consultancy firm to secure a top tier manager;

I love McCarthy, but if we're playing with big cash we can do better.

We do not need a manger in place by the time Germany comes around.

Why are we apparently rushing this.

We will lose to Germany no matter who we have in charge and we will likely beat Kazakhstan no matter who we have in charge.

weldoninhio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And a pretty good job there he did too.

Yeah, finishing bottom of the group is a very good job. BRING BACK BRIAN!!!!

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

We do not need a manger in place by the time Germany comes around.

Why are we apparently rushing this.

We will lose to Germany no matter who we have in charge and we will likely beat Kazakhstan no matter who we have in charge.

Personally I don't get the impression the FAI are rushing it. They took their time last time and are talking about consulting and taking stock just now. That all sounds sensible to me.

noodler

Pro. F wrote: »

Personally I don't get the impression the FAI are rushing it. They took their time last time and are talking about consulting and taking stock just now. That all sounds sensible to me.

According to Sky, and I don't say I believe it 100%, O'Neil is the first choice.

Finding the first populist choice ex-celtic manager who is out of work when we seem to have alot of cash to spend on the appointment certainly doesn't seem to me like the FAI are going through all the options.

weldoninhio

noodler wrote: »

According to Sky, and I don't say I believe it 100%, O'Neil is the first choice.

Finding the first populist choice ex-celtic manager who is out of work when we seem to have alot of cash to spend on the appointment certainly doesn't seem to me like the FAI are going through all the options.

O'Neill understands the way football is played in UK/Ireland. I don't see what him being an ex-celtic manager has to do with it.

noodler

weldoninhio wrote: »

O'Neill understands the way football is played in UK/Ireland. I don't see what him being an ex-celtic manager has to do with it.

There are alot of Celtic fans in Ireland?

The point is fairly self-evident.

LuckyLloyd

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah, finishing bottom of the group is a very good job. BRING BACK BRIAN!!!!

:rolleyes:

There is no grey in your world I see. He did a very good job with the Faroes. They got some good results and improved their level of consistent competitiveness under his tenure.

deadeye187

Neil Lennon!


Only man for the job!

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

According to Sky, and I don't say I believe it 100%, O'Neil is the first choice.

Finding the first populist choice ex-celtic manager who is out of work when we seem to have alot of cash to spend on the appointment certainly doesn't seem to me like the FAI are going through all the options.

Yeah I'm probably showing much more faith in the FAI than I should.

Pro. F

weldoninhio wrote: »

O'Neill understands the way football is played in UK/Ireland.

And that's the number one reason for not hiring him. British style kick-and-rush football has been proven time and again to be less effective than the more balanced styles. MON used to play more sensible balanced football with Celtic, but since then he has fallen completely into the English trap.

Lennonist

Pro. F wrote: »

Personally I don't get the impression the FAI are rushing it. They took their time last time and are talking about consulting and taking stock just now. That all sounds sensible to me.

I get the impression that if they want O'Neill they will have to move for him straight away. He won't wait around for a 6 month consultation process and would probably take another job in the mean time if the FAI do that. He has made himself available now.

You say you don't want him, if the FAI dither on O'Neill you'll get your wish and it'll be someone else. I would like him to get the job because I think we'll be successful under him, in terms of qualification and in terms of performing well in big tournaments when/if we qualify.

weldoninhio

Pro. F wrote: »

And that's the number one reason for not hiring him. British style kick-and-rush football has been proven time and again to be less effective than the more balanced styles. MON used to play more sensible balanced football with Celtic, but since then he has fallen completely into the English trap.

A lot of people on here don't seem to understand the role of International Manager. He will work with the players for a week max every couple of months. No International Manager is going to get Ireland playing like Brazil. We need a manager that knows the player we have strengths and weaknesses and knows how to utilise these. He won't have the time to coach the players, that'll be done at their clubs. He will work on set pieces and tell them how they will line up to eek the maximum performance from their abilities.

We need a grassroots change in the country to move away from the UK/Irish style of play, but this is not going to change with the current players in the international set up. I'd go as far to say that its 6-10 years away if the grassroots is developed now.

TL:DR MON knows the setup and how to play with the players we have at the moment, hopefully in the future we'll create/have players with a different style.

noodler

weldoninhio wrote: »

A lot of people on here don't seem to understand the role of International Manager. He will work with the players for a week max every couple of months. No International Manager is going to get Ireland playing like Brazil. We need a manager that knows the player we have strengths and weaknesses and knows how to utilise these. He won't have the time to coach the players, that'll be done at their clubs. He will work on set pieces and tell them how they will line up to eek the maximum performance from their abilities.

We need a grassroots change in the country to move away from the UK/Irish style of play, but this is not going to change with the current players in the international set up. I'd go as far to say that its 6-10 years away if the grassroots is developed now.

TL:DR MON knows the setup and how to play with the players we have at the moment, hopefully in the future we'll create/have players with a different style.

Trap's style went beyond the typical EPL team in terms of style of play, bar maybe Stoke but even that is a stretch.

I expect nearly any manager to have us passing the ball a little bit better than Trap. Whether or not such a man will have us win games is the question.

Its not like the football Trap played was typical of McCarthy or Kerr.

Pro. F

weldoninhio wrote: »

A lot of people on here don't seem to understand the role of International Manager. He will work with the players for a week max every couple of months. No International Manager is going to get Ireland playing like Brazil. We need a manager that knows the player we have strengths and weaknesses and knows how to utilise these. He won't have the time to coach the players, that'll be done at their clubs. He will work on set pieces and tell them how they will line up to eek the maximum performance from their abilities.

We need a grassroots change in the country to move away from the UK/Irish style of play, but this is not going to change with the current players in the international set up. I'd go as far to say that its 6-10 years away if the grassroots is developed now.

TL:DR MON knows the setup and how to play with the players we have at the moment, hopefully in the future we'll create/have players with a different style.

No, you are misunderstanding the standard of players we have available to select, their strengths and weaknesses and how simple and effective it actually is for professional footballers to pass the ball to each other. We have more than enough skill in our panel to play more balanced football than what MON would be interested in.

And for the millionth fùcking time, nobody is asking for us to play like Brazil. All you're doing by talking like that is showing how blinded you are by the English football myth.

Grass roots change is important of course, but that's no reason to postpone playing sensible, effective football at senior level.

DeanAustin

Pro. F wrote: »

No, you are misunderstanding the standard of players we have available to select, their strengths and weaknesses and how simple and effective it actually is for professional footballers to pass the ball to each other. We have more than enough skill in our panel to play more balanced football than what MON would be interested in.

And for the millionth fùcking time, nobody is asking for us to play like Brazil. All you're doing by talking like that is showing how blinded you are by the English football myth.

Grass roots change is important of course, but that's no reason to postpone playing sensible, effective football at senior level.

This is a fair point. We can play better football than we played under Trap with the players we have. Players like Hoolahan and Gibson will naturally look to pass more than two players shackled by a system that makes them protect the back 4. Whether that will get better results than Trap is not clear though.

It's more than a change at grass roots though in terms of the bigger picture. If we are committed to embracing good, passing football then we need a massive mindset change amongst people in this country.

weldoninhio

Pro. F wrote: »

No, you are misunderstanding the standard of players we have available to select, their strengths and weaknesses and how simple and effective it actually is for professional footballers to pass the ball to each other. We have more than enough skill in our panel to play more balanced football than what MON would be interested in.

And for the millionth fùcking time, nobody is asking for us to play like Brazil. All you're doing by talking like that is showing how blinded you are by the English football myth.

Grass roots change is important of course, but that's no reason to postpone playing sensible, effective football at senior level.

I believe we have decent footballers to pick from, I also believe O'Neill will play to these players strengths and have us playing a more balanced game. Brazil was used as an extreme example.

Lennonist

Pro. F wrote: »

No, you are misunderstanding the standard of players we have available to select, their strengths and weaknesses and how simple and effective it actually is for professional footballers to pass the ball to each other. We have more than enough skill in our panel to play more balanced football than what MON would be interested in.

And for the millionth fùcking time, nobody is asking for us to play like Brazil. All you're doing by talking like that is showing how blinded you are by the English football myth.

Grass roots change is important of course, but that's no reason to postpone playing sensible, effective football at senior level.

I've seen MON's teams at close quarters and they were perfectly balanced in terms of utilising and making the most of the talent at his disposal and combining it with a positive high tempo style. If he gets the job we will be guaranteed the "sensible, effective football" that you say you want.

You appear to be making an argument for appointing O'Neill actually.

The necessary changes at grassroots level is another discussion.

Laois_Man

If O'Neill is getting the job, as seems likely, I had been hoping John Robertson would be his assistant (I have heard it said the absence of Robertson from O'Neill's backroom team for the first time was the reason for his failure at Sunderland)

However it seems Robertson had a heart attack last month so I'm not sure it's possible

SantryRed

Laois_Man wrote: »

If O'Neill is getting the job, as seems likely, I had been hoping John Robertson would be his assistant (I have heard it said the absence of Robertson from O'Neill's backroom team for the first time was the reason for his failure at Sunderland)

However it seems Robertson had a heart attack last month so I'm not sure it's possible

Well Delaney didn't have a problem with ill health with Bobby Robson so don't count it out yet.

Pro. F

Lennonist wrote: »

I've seen MON's teams at close quarters and they were perfectly balanced in terms of utilising and making the most of the talent at his disposal and combining it with a positive high tempo style. If he gets the job we will be guaranteed the "sensible, effective football" that you say you want.

You appear to be making an argument for appointing O'Neill actually.

The necessary changes at grassroots level is another discussion.

Nope. The football he played at Villa and Sunderland was nothing like what I'm looking for. It was all effort with no focus on possession.

I do remember him expressing more intelligence in his style at Celtic, but something changed after that.

Lennonist

Pro. F wrote: »

Nope. The football he played at Villa and Sunderland was nothing like what I'm looking for. It was all effort with no focus on possession.

I do remember him expressing more intelligence in his style at Celtic, but something changed after that.

I think he's exactly what we are looking for and I hope it happens. The FAI will need to move within the next week or two to make it happen.

ArnoldJRimmer

People here seem to have very short memories. the last time the FAI took their time, went through a consultation process so that we could get the best manager possible, it went on for months and we got Steve Staunton.

There isn't a queue of people lining up around the corner to take the job. The candidates at the top of everyone's list are already in a job (McDermott, McCarthy, Hughton). We're left with obvious candidates like Roy Keane and Martin O'Neill, and I know who I'd pick from those two. Neither are going to be that pushed to take the job that they'd hang around and wait for the FAI to pursue other options.

MON is not the messiah the clowns on RTE are claiming he is, nor is he Trap mark II like a lot of posters on this thread think he is. He's somewhere in between. I think he's the best available and realistic option. In an ideal world, it would be Sir Alex though

Banjaxed82

Mick McCarthy:

"My understanding is that he (Martin O'Neill) has got the job. Good luck to him, I’m delighted.”

"Martin O’Neill is getting the job as far as I’m aware. That’s totally nailed on, he’s a shoo-in for it."

Pro. F

Lennonist wrote: »

I think he's exactly what we are looking for and I hope it happens.

I don't give a flying fùck if you think he is exactly what we are looking for. You tried to convince me that MON plays the style of effective, balanced football I want to see implemented. You were wrong.

Pro. F

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

People here seem to have very short memories. the last time the FAI took their time, went through a consultation process so that we could get the best manager possible, it went on for months and we got Steve Staunton.

There isn't a queue of people lining up around the corner to take the job. The candidates at the top of everyone's list are already in a job (McDermott, McCarthy, Hughton). We're left with obvious candidates like Roy Keane and Martin O'Neill, and I know who I'd pick from those two. Neither are going to be that pushed to take the job that they'd hang around and wait for the FAI to pursue other options.

MON is not the messiah the clowns on RTE are claiming he is, nor is he Trap mark II like a lot of posters on this thread think he is. He's somewhere in between. I think he's the best available and realistic option. In an ideal world, it would be Sir Alex though

The last time the FAI took their time and went through a consultation process was with Trap's appointment, not Staunton's. Ironic that you don't remember that.

Since Dennis O'Brien is helping out with the wages once again it could be big bucks on offer once again. So there would be a lot of managers interested when the money is so good. McCarthy, McDermott, Houghton, O'Neill and Keane shouldn't even be on anyone's list if that's the case, never mind near the top of it.

Lennonist

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't give a flying fùck if you think he is exactly what we are looking for. You tried to convince me that MON plays the style of effective, balanced football I want to see implemented. You were wrong.

I don't care whether you're convinced he's the outstanding candidate and probably the correct choice for the job, do you think it matters to me what you think? Do you think it matters to the decision makers in this what you think?:pac:

Catch a grip on yourself will ya.

Pro. F

Lennonist wrote: »

I don't care whether you're convinced he's the outstanding candidate and probably the correct choice for the job, do you think it matters to me what you think? Do you think it matters to the decision makers in this what you think?:pac:

Catch a grip on yourself will ya.

You tried to convince me that the style of football that MON uses is what I want. Maybe you didn't notice that that is what you did.

Lord Trollington

Is it true that Mick McCarthy has a clause in his contract which would release him to the FAI without compensation?

If I was asked to pick between Mick and Martin I'd sway towards Mick.

Lennonist

Pro. F wrote: »

You tried to convince me that the style of football that MON uses is what I want. Maybe you didn't notice that that is what you did.

Eh no. I read your post saying what you want - or I'm guessing the least you expect - from the next manager; is that his team's will produce "sensible, effective football".

If offered the job, I'm saying that is exactly what Martin O'Neill will provide and possibly more if things go his way and the players perform to the very optimum in big tournament games.

What are you getting thick about, it doesn't matter whether you're convinced about that or not.

Paully D

The amount of people championing the appointment of Martin O'Neill as manager on here is staggering IMO.

This isn't the Martin O'Neill of 5-10 years ago. It's the same man who only 6 months ago was producing the vomit-inducing type of football that was, at best, equally as bad as anything I have watched from Trapattoni's Ireland team and I watched 90 minutes of all but 4 or 5 of O'Neill's 66 games as Sunderland manager and every Ireland game bar the odd friendly under Trapattoni.

Here's how the Ireland job will go, presuming he gets it. He'll start off by throwing himself into the job and will pick up a few unexpected results, those that were for his appointment will be shouting from the rooftops about how it's great to have someone with passion and enthusiasm as manager. As the months go by the enthusiasm will wane and so will the results. Teams will know to play against O'Neill's teams at this stage and for whatever reason he just won't have a Plan B. He'll then get disinterested.

Whether we're playing against Somalia or Spain it will always be the same. 4-5-1 (although he will say it's 4-3-3, which it never really is) with the opposition having the ball at will until they get into the final third, then his players will try to win the ball and break quickly. The problem is, the wingers (and full backs) are always so deep it's difficult to get them the ball in dangerous areas and it inevitably ends up being lumped to a lone striker up front, where the opposition defence are in a 3 or 4 versus 1 situation and win the ball back easily. Rinse and repeat.

He is also well known for not giving younger players a chance which is one of the criticisms of Trapattoni's reign. O'Neill would often bring 5 or 6 substitutes leaving 2 or 3 places on the bench free rather than throw a young player into the squad. That was at club level where the expectation is that he builds something. He will be even worse for not giving youth a chance at international level, where if he qualifies for a tournament he will be classed a success by the majority, so he will certainly have no focus on the future.

Positives? Defending set pieces will be great. In fact, I think we only conceded two or three goals from set pieces during his reign and we have conceded three in three games this season.

Has Martin O'Neill been a good manager? Yes. Is he a good manager now? No. These things happen. Managers, especially those that have been in the game for as long as O'Neill (23 years) lose some of the fire and desire that brought them to where they they are. It's not that unusual. Those days for O'Neill are gone and he has proven it himself by regularly not turning up at Sunderland during the week. If he can't motivate himself how can he motivate anyone else? His win percentage has also dropped with every job he has had since 2000, from 75% at Celtic, to 42% at Villa and 31% at Sunderland. It's not like he didn't have the resources at his disposal either, he's just declining, job after job.

I'd urge the FAI to look elsewhere but I fear they will make the appointment due to it being cost effective and ''the man on the street'' being in favour so they can say ''well the majority wanted him'' if it falls to pieces, which it eventually will.

Ask those that have had direct experience with him in recent times. Most villa fans wouldn't want him, I don't know any Sunderland fan that would want him. There's a reason for that.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter, but the proof is there. Open your eyes.

Dolph Starbeam

If all this about O'Neill already having the job is true then it is an absolute disgrace. I think the majority of people want the process to be quick but I really hope the FAI look at and consider all the options instead of just going for the obvious choice straight away.

Banjaxed82

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Is it true that Mick McCarthy has a clause in his contract which would release him to the FAI without compensation?

If I was asked to pick between Mick and Martin I'd sway towards Mick.

That clause expired in August.

Lennonist

Paully D wrote: »

The amount of people championing the appointment of Martin O'Neill as manager on here is staggering IMO.

This isn't the Martin O'Neill of 5-10 years ago. It's the same man who only 6 months ago was producing the vomit-inducing type of football that was, at best, equally as bad as anything I have watched from Trapattoni's Ireland team and I watched 90 minutes of all but 4 or 5 of O'Neill's 66 games as Sunderland manager and every Ireland game bar the odd friendly under Trapattoni.

Here's how the Ireland job will go, presuming he gets it. He'll start off by throwing himself into the job and will pick up a few unexpected results, those that were for his appointment will be shouting from the rooftops about how it's great to have someone with passion and enthusiasm as manager. As the months go by the enthusiasm will wane and so will the results. Teams will know to play against O'Neill's teams at this stage and for whatever reason he just won't have a Plan B. He'll then get disinterested.

Whether we're playing against Somalia or Spain it will always be the same. 4-5-1 (although he will say it's 4-3-3, which it never really is) with the opposition having the ball at will until they get into the final third, then his players will try to win the ball and break quickly. The problem is, the wingers (and full backs) are always so deep it's difficult to get them the ball in dangerous areas and it inevitably ends up being lumped to a lone striker up front, where the opposition defence are in a 3 or 4 versus 1 situation and win the ball back easily. Rinse and repeat.

He is also well known for not giving younger players a chance which is one of the criticisms of Trapattoni's reign. O'Neill would often bring 5 or 6 substitutes leaving 2 or 3 places on the bench free rather than throw a young player into the squad. That was at club level where the expectation is that he builds something. He will be even worse for not giving youth a chance at international level, where if he qualifies for a tournament he will be classed a success by the majority, so he will certainly have no focus on the future.

Positives? Defending set pieces will be great. In fact, I think we only conceded two or three goals from set pieces during his reign and we have conceded three in three games this season.

Has Martin O'Neill been a good manager? Yes. Is he a good manager now? No. These things happen. Managers, especially those that have been in the game for as long as O'Neill (23 years) lose some of the fire and desire that brought them to where they they are. It's not that unusual. Those days for O'Neill are gone and he has proven it himself by regularly not turning up at Sunderland during the week. If he can't motivate himself how can he motivate anyone else? His win percentage has also dropped with every job he has had since 2000, from 75% at Celtic, to 42% at Villa and 31% at Sunderland. It's not like he didn't have the resources at his disposal either, he's just declining, job after job.

I'd urge the FAI to look elsewhere but I fear they will make the appointment due to it being cost effective and ''the man on the street'' being in favour so they can say ''well the majority wanted him'' if it falls to pieces, which it eventually will.

Ask those that have had direct experience with him in recent times. Most villa fans wouldn't want him, I don't know any Sunderland fan that would want him. There's a reason for that.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter, but the proof is there. Open your eyes.

Yeah we already know what you think. I find it staggering that there are people on here like you with an entirely negative and unbalanced view of O'Neill's credentials for the job. Thankfully - whether he gets the job or not - you wont have any influence over the decision.

Lovely Bloke

Lennonist wrote: »

Yeah we already know what you think. I find it staggering that there are people on here like you with an entirely negative and unbalanced view of O'Neill's credentials for the job. Thankfully - whether he gets the job or not - you wont have any influence over the decision.

Do you think he did a good job at Sunderland?

Rhys Essien

Paully D wrote: »

The amount of people championing the appointment of Martin O'Neill as manager on here is staggering IMO.

This isn't the Martin O'Neill of 5-10 years ago. It's the same man who only 6 months ago was producing the vomit-inducing type of football that was, at best, equally as bad as anything I have watched from Trapattoni's Ireland team and I watched 90 minutes of all but 4 or 5 of O'Neill's 66 games as Sunderland manager and every Ireland game bar the odd friendly under Trapattoni.

Here's how the Ireland job will go, presuming he gets it. He'll start off by throwing himself into the job and will pick up a few unexpected results, those that were for his appointment will be shouting from the rooftops about how it's great to have someone with passion and enthusiasm as manager. As the months go by the enthusiasm will wane and so will the results. Teams will know to play against O'Neill's teams at this stage and for whatever reason he just won't have a Plan B. He'll then get disinterested.

Whether we're playing against Somalia or Spain it will always be the same. 4-5-1 (although he will say it's 4-3-3, which it never really is) with the opposition having the ball at will until they get into the final third, then his players will try to win the ball and break quickly. The problem is, the wingers (and full backs) are always so deep it's difficult to get them the ball in dangerous areas and it inevitably ends up being lumped to a lone striker up front, where the opposition defence are in a 3 or 4 versus 1 situation and win the ball back easily. Rinse and repeat.

He is also well known for not giving younger players a chance which is one of the criticisms of Trapattoni's reign. O'Neill would often bring 5 or 6 substitutes leaving 2 or 3 places on the bench free rather than throw a young player into the squad. That was at club level where the expectation is that he builds something. He will be even worse for not giving youth a chance at international level, where if he qualifies for a tournament he will be classed a success by the majority, so he will certainly have no focus on the future.

Positives? Defending set pieces will be great. In fact, I think we only conceded two or three goals from set pieces during his reign and we have conceded three in three games this season.

Has Martin O'Neill been a good manager? Yes. Is he a good manager now? No. These things happen. Managers, especially those that have been in the game for as long as O'Neill (23 years) lose some of the fire and desire that brought them to where they they are. It's not that unusual. Those days for O'Neill are gone and he has proven it himself by regularly not turning up at Sunderland during the week. If he can't motivate himself how can he motivate anyone else? His win percentage has also dropped with every job he has had since 2000, from 75% at Celtic, to 42% at Villa and 31% at Sunderland. It's not like he didn't have the resources at his disposal either, he's just declining, job after job.

I'd urge the FAI to look elsewhere but I fear they will make the appointment due to it being cost effective and ''the man on the street'' being in favour so they can say ''well the majority wanted him'' if it falls to pieces, which it eventually will.

Ask those that have had direct experience with him in recent times. Most villa fans wouldn't want him, I don't know any Sunderland fan that would want him. There's a reason for that.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter, but the proof is there. Open your eyes.

Very well put Paully.I am suprised myself with the overwhelming backing he is getting to become the next manager.I taught the dog on the street knew that the Sunderland and Villa fans hated his guts in the end.Are the majority here only remembering his Celtic days.Im at a loss.