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Pulling out of house sale - incurring fee from estate agent?

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  • 11-09-2013 11:49am
    #1
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭


    Hi All,

    Myself and my husband had recently gone sale agreed on our house but for a number of reasons decided not to sell (combination of not finding somewhere we really wanted to buy, changing jobs, taking on an MSc, etc) and sent both our estate agent and solicitor an email to this effect.

    We had expected (and still do) to have a fee to pay the solicitor (we had had contracts drawn up but only the initial sale agreed deposit was ever handed over) and so that costs money which is fine.
    What I wasn't expecting however was to receive an invoice from the estate agent for €500. The reason given is that he had produced two buyers for the house for us to chose between and this €500 is to cover the admin fees.
    We had already given him a cheque at the start of this whole thing to cover advertising, photos, etc and a fee if we didn't sell was never mentioned. I never thought to ask as at the time we had anticipated having sold and bought and moved by the end of the summer. Life changed things around and so we aren't moving.
    In your experience is a fee like this usual?


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    #2
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    The estate agent did the job you asked, got you buyers. You are the ones backing out of the agreement not him.


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    #3
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The estate agent did the job you asked, got you buyers. You are the ones backing out of the agreement not him.

    I'm not fighting it I was just surprised at it. This fee wasn't mentioned at any stage (by either him or any of the other 3 agents we had to the house when picking one) and when you're not expecting a bill of €500 its quite a land!
    If it has to be paid then it has to be paid I was only asking if it was usual as I'd never heard of it before.


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    #4
    aN.Droid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭aN.Droid


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    I'm not fighting it I was just surprised at it. This fee wasn't mentioned at any stage (by either him or any of the other 3 agents we had to the house when picking one) and when you're not expecting a bill of €500 its quite a land!
    If it has to be paid then it has to be paid I was only asking if it was usual as I'd never heard of it before.

    Did you sign a contract with the estate agent?


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    #5
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,529 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    of the two buyers, how close was there bid compared to the value he put on the house and the offer you would have actually accepted.

    this is the important part.


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    #6
    downwithit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭downwithit


    What makes you feel the need to pay a solicitor for the work he did, and not an estate agent for the work he did?


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    #7
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    ted1 wrote: »
    of the two buyers, how close was there bid compared to the value he put on the house and the offer you would have actually accepted.

    this is the important part.

    The bid we accepted was approx €30k higher than the value he put the house on at. We actually went sale agreed with a bid that was slightly lower because that buyer was cash only while the other had a mortgage agreement. The agent suggested the cash buyer.


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    #8
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Limericks wrote: »
    Did you sign a contract with the estate agent?

    I have all of the documentation at home and I'll go through it this evening to double check everything.
    For the life of me I do not think this fee was mentioned.


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    #9
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    downwithit wrote: »
    What makes you feel the need to pay a solicitor for the work he did, and not an estate agent for the work he did?
    I'm not saying I shouldn't pay the agent I am saying that I hadn't anticipated this additional bill.
    With solicitors I think we all take it as a given that you pay through the nose for everything, every phone call, email, etc. I just handn't thought of this bill too and so was asking only if it was the norm thats all.


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    #10
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    I'm not saying I shouldn't pay the agent I am saying that I hadn't anticipated this additional bill.
    With solicitors I think we all take it as a given that you pay through the nose for everything, every phone call, email, etc. I just handn't thought of this bill too and so was asking only if it was the norm thats all.

    They've done work to get you the buyers, granted you paid some money before but that was for advertising etc, and the agent had to come out to the house to show them it and make calls etc. Why wouldn't you have to pay for this work?


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    #11
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Many hours of estate agents work to get a sale to that stage. We asked up front from agents what the fee was if we took the house off the market. 500 was the lowest, ranged up the 1000.

    Pay the agent for their time and effort. Sounds like they even did a good job for you.

    When we sold, we also had no new place to buy. We took the cash and put it in a high yield account, rented til we found a place. Must easier to buy when you are not in a chain.


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    #12
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,529 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    The bid we accepted was approx €30k higher than the value he put the house on at. We actually went sale agreed with a bid that was slightly lower because that buyer was cash only while the other had a mortgage agreement. The agent suggested the cash buyer.

    Well ti sclear that he fulfilled his duty, once its sale agreed everthing is passed over to the soliciters and the estate agent has nothing left to do.

    only charging 500 is good of him


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    #13
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Del2005 wrote: »
    They've done work to get you the buyers, granted you paid some money before but that was for advertising etc, and the agent had to come out to the house to show them it and make calls etc. Why wouldn't you have to pay for this work?[/QUOTE]

    Yet again I'll say that I am not planning on not paying him. I was simply asking if this was usual and I should have allowed for it.


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    #14
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    pwurple wrote: »
    Many hours of estate agents work to get a sale to that stage. We asked up front from agents what the fee was if we took the house off the market. 500 was the lowest, ranged up the 1000.

    Pay the agent for their time and effort. Sounds like they even did a good job for you.

    When we sold, we also had no new place to buy. We took the cash and put it in a high yield account, rented til we found a place. Must easier to buy when you are not in a chain.[/QUOTE]

    I agree re: chain however we are on a tracker and if we sold we would have lost that. If we'd sold and bought we could have ported it across. It wasn't worth losing that to rent or buy a house we didn't really want.


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    #15
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    ted1 wrote: »

    only charging 500 is good of him

    I agree with this, after all he did all that was asked of him and probably more if he was getting you more money than you expected from the sale.
    I know of some agents who would be asking for their full fee.


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    #16
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    ted1 wrote: »
    of the two buyers, how close was there bid compared to the value he put on the house and the offer you would have actually accepted.

    this is the important part.

    The sale was agreed, so it's not important.


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    #17
    anto9
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭anto9


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    The sale was agreed, so it's not important.

    I know ,but some posters are so nosey .Its pathetic really .


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    #18
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »

    Yet again I'll say that I am not planning on not paying him. I was simply asking if this was usual and I should have allowed for it.

    Is it unusual to get an invoice from someone who did their job satisfactorily:confused: Of course you'll get an invoice for work done, and done well, on something you backed out of.

    Where you expecting an invoice off the EA if you'd sold?


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    #19
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,529 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    The sale was agreed, so it's not important.

    Your allowed change your mind, if it was 50% below what the EA had said they would get then I don't think it matters. i would say he didn't do his job.


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    #20
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Is it unusual to get an invoice from someone who did their job satisfactorily:confused: Of course you'll get an invoice for work done, and done well, on something you backed out of.

    Where you expecting an invoice off the EA if you'd sold?[/QUOTE]

    No I wasn't. The reason being when I sold a house before the EA held the money paid as the initial deposit when I went sale agreed. Then the solicitor did her stuff and the sale when through. The money was transferred to her offices by two routes, one of which was from the EA who took his cut (as agreed) from the sale. No invoice was issued.
    This is the first time I've had to pull out of a sale and so there are quite a few things that I'm learning as this goes along.
    One of them is how quickly people express outrage at the idea of a bill not being paid when not paying said bill was ever mentioned!!:confused:


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    #21
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    Yes it's standard to have to pay, it will be a clause in the contract you signed. €500 seems low.


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    #22
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,508 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    seems fair. Being a frustrated house hunter at the moment, I would be very annoyed if I was the buyer and had gone this far but thats another story.....


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    #23
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    TheDriver wrote: »
    seems fair. Being a frustrated house hunter at the moment, I would be very annoyed if I was the buyer and had gone this far but thats another story.....

    I fully understand where you're coming from. Believe me this was not an easy decision for us to make. We've spent quite a lot of money already and haven't managed to move anywhere (engineers reports, builders quotes, EA fees, solicitors fees, etc) and had our share of ups and downs on houses were tried to buy.


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    #24
    Ortiz
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Ortiz


    I would say your are under no obligation to pay this fee. Either party can pull out at any time up until the point unconditional contracts are signed by my understanding. You should have been made sign a standard PSRA contract where all the terms should be outlined. As long as you hadn't signed the contract you shouldn't be paying any fee in my opinion bar the agreed advertising costs.

    However that is just the legal side - in all fairness it sounds like the EA did a good job for you and as a gesture of goodwill I think you should pay the fee - but I'm just some anonymous poster on the internet so who am I to say!


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    #25
    yoloc
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭yoloc


    I always thought it was no sale- no fee and that doesnt actully mean getting a sale, that means a sale going through. I had a sale fall through on me just last year with the buyers pulling out and i never was asked for a fee. Im wondering now if i had of pulled out, would the bill come through.


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    #26
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple



    I agree re: chain however we are on a tracker and if we sold we would have lost that. If we'd sold and bought we could have ported it across. It wasn't worth losing that to rent or buy a house we didn't really want.

    I think you've been misinformed there.

    You can't port a tracker to a new property. A new property is always new mortgage at shiny new rates. Did your bank tell you that, because your solicitor will tell you otherwise, and your bank will claim they never said it in the first place if you try.


    edit, wait, I just found a bank of ireland special offer that lets you keep your tracker rate for the first 5 years of new mortgage... but then switches you to variable. Is this what you mean?


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    #27
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    pwurple wrote: »
    I think you've been misinformed there.

    You can't port a tracker to a new property. A new property is always new mortgage at shiny new rates. Did your bank tell you that, because your solicitor will tell you otherwise, and your bank will claim they never said it in the first place if you try.


    edit, wait, I just found a bank of ireland special offer that lets you keep your tracker rate for the first 5 years of new mortgage... but then switches you to variable. Is this what you mean?

    Ulster bank also allow a porting with some restrictions.


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    #28
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    pwurple wrote: »
    I think you've been misinformed there.

    You can't port a tracker to a new property. A new property is always new mortgage at shiny new rates. Did your bank tell you that, because your solicitor will tell you otherwise, and your bank will claim they never said it in the first place if you try.


    edit, wait, I just found a bank of ireland special offer that lets you keep your tracker rate for the first 5 years of new mortgage... but then switches you to variable. Is this what you mean?


    We're with Ulster Bank and they confirmed in writing that we could port the tracker across. They are the only bank allowing this.


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    #29
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Auctioneers often have it in their contract that full payment is due to them when they produce a signed contract by a purchaser indicating that they are going to buy. This would be before the sale goes through. Check the contract terms.
    The auctioneer has done his job.


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    #30
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Auctioneers often have it in their contract that full payment is due to them when they produce a signed contract by a purchaser indicating that they are going to buy. This would be before the sale goes through. Check the contract terms.
    The auctioneer has done his job.[/QUOTE]

    Once again that was never in doubt and I never questioned it. :( I'll reiterate my previous statement, I have no intention of not paying the EA his €500 and I never had any such intention.
    I asked if it was usual to get a bill when you didn't proceed with the sale.
    That is the only question I asked.


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    #31
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    Once again that was never in doubt and I never questioned it. :( I'll reiterate my previous statement, I have no intention of not paying the EA his €500 and I never had any such intention.
    I asked if it was usual to get a bill when you didn't proceed with the sale.
    That is the only question I asked.
    Are you satisfied that it has been answered? If the EA has introduced a person to you who is willing and able to purchase at a price that you agree is reasonable, then the EA's job is done and he or she is entitled to the full fee. It is normal for EAs to seek a fee where the vendor subsequently withdraws from the sale, and some will seek the full fee.


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