so, Santa is bringing a puppy this year.

odckdo

Banjo String wrote: »

6am this morning, my wife comes down stairs, no pee, no poo (so progress) but when she was preparing her puppy nuts, she wet her bed again.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already as I didn't read all the thread.

To get over this phase, would it be possible to get up a couple of times during the night to bring your pup out to the toilet? (Again using a key phrase.) That should fix the problem of your pup going to the toilet when you get up in the morning.

I have never crate trained but I do have a crate and a pen. Both are handy to have. I used the crate and pen for my new pup during the day if I needed a break. The crate is also useful if your dog has to rest after a visit to the vet. The pen comes in panels so I still find these handy for blocking off different areas in the house.

Banjo String

Jesus lads, this dog is playing hard ball.

Outside with her at regular intervals today again staying out there for 10-15 mins at a time , no pees.

Bring her back Inside, grabbing a nappy bag for her poo to head out on a walk and she literally peed the sec (literally second) I turned my back.

I swear she's taking the Mickey at this stage.

DBB

She is reverse housetrained op. She is certainly not playing hardball, she is simply doing what she has learned works best for her.
In other words, as I described in other similar threads, a cloth/soft surface has become her preferred substrate, which all too often happens to pups who are not actively housetrained. But there may be more going on related to her not wanting to pee when a human is nearby.
She peed as soon as she saw your wife... Can I take it that your wife has lost the rag with pup for peeing inside? Indeed, clapping hands at pup in mid-pee could be enough to make pup worried about toileting in front of people at all, or peeing out of anxiety.
This pre-emptive peeing is a direct result of the pup literally peeing herself out of the anxiety resulting from anticipating something she finds aversive. Your wife may have to do some work to restore the pup's confidence, because this type of anticipative peeing is very hard to get rid of when it becomes established.
What substrate is your garden? Grass? Slabs? Concrete?

Banjo String

DBB wrote: »

She is reverse housetrained op. She is certainly not playing hardball, she is simply doing what she has learned works best for her.
In other words, as I described in other similar threads, a cloth/soft surface has become her preferred substrate, which all too often happens to pups who are not actively housetrained. But there may be more going on related to her not wanting to pee when a human is nearby.
She peed as soon as she saw your wife... Can I take it that your wife has lost the rag with pup for peeing inside? Indeed, clapping hands at pup in mid-pee could be enough to make pup worried about toileting in front of people at all, or peeing out of anxiety.
This pre-emptive peeing is a direct result of the pup literally peeing herself out of the anxiety resulting from anticipating something she finds aversive. Your wife may have to do some work to restore the pup's confidence, because this type of anticipative peeing is very hard to get rid of when it becomes established.
What substrate is your garden? Grass? Slabs? Concrete?

Hi DBB, thanks for all the info so far, I've found it extremely helpful.

Firstly, no my wife hasn't flipped out with her, (not that I've ever seen anyway) I'm scratching my head now, because the dog is literally 50/50 peeing in garden/in kitchen.

My back garden consists of decking, stones, then lastly sandstone. No grass.

Do you think this could be having an affect on where and when she pees?

Incidentally, poos don't seem to be an issue, in fact she'll sprint out the kitchen door to do her number 2s, no problem there

Apart from the peeing, she is a very happy, fun loving puppy. And I shod add, LOVES digging my flowerbeds and pots.

DBB

Banjo String wrote: »

Hi DBB, thanks for all the info so far, I've found it extremely helpful.

Firstly, no my wife hasn't flipped out with her, (not that I've ever seen anyway) I'm scratching my head now, because the dog is literally 50/50 peeing in garden/in kitchen.

Glad to be of help, and I know you're trying your best
There's some reason that pup is peeing when she sees or hears someone coming... Can your wife describe pup's body language as she peed in the bed when your wife appeared? Was she quiet, perhaps lowering her head and averting her gaze? Or was she happy and waggy and excited?
Bear in mind that clapping hands, even an exasperated "oh for God's sake!" can be enough to make a dog worried about what happens when people appear... Can you honestly say that nothing like this has happened (I know there have been times that I've had to go to a different room so that I could get the frustration out of my system where pup couldn't see me )

My back garden consists of decking, stones, then lastly sandstone. No grass.

Do you think this could be having an affect on where and when she pees?

Aahhh... We may be getting to a major contributor to your problem here! Pups learn substrate discrimination very early in life, long before you got her, in terms of how their toileting surface *should* feel and smell.
So the breeder has a huge influence over pups' future substrate preference.
The vaaaast majority of dogs prefer a soft, non-splash surface, and you're not providing that for her in your garden (not having a go here, it's just an observation ), so here's a suggestion.
Get a good sized box, or kid's sand pit, and fill it with sand and/or topsoil, even bark mulch might do the trick. If you were going to do it super-ideally, you'd put a layer of grass turf on top! But you may get away without it.
And this can become her new toilet zone. She needs to be able to get in and out of it easily.
With time, there's a good chance she'll diversify her substrate preference, but you do need to accommodate her limited preference at this early age.
Is that a possibility for you to set up?

Incidentally, poos don't seem to be an issue, in fact she'll sprint out the kitchen door to do her number 2s, no problem there

That's often because pooping doesn't give pups the same splashback problem!

Banjo String

So, firstly thanks for all the help and advice.

i'm pleased to inform you all she's now house trained. (or at least we think she is)

Followed a few of your heads up, firstly, her bed which she was peeing in constantly has been relegated to simply hanging up outside.

Purchased a new bed (plastic basket shaped yoke) from home store and more (7 euro) which I have put her blanket from her outside kennel into. (which she never peed on)

After a few hard days/evenings of refusing to interact with her until she went, I then praised her like an idiot, followed by a piece of ham, or a piece of tuna (which I've realised she goes bananas for) .

Take her out for a 20 min stroll pre work, post work and before bedtime, followed by frequent trips to the backyard (on her leash) and I think we finally have her sorted.

No accidents since Saturday, and call me crazy, but I actually think the dog is in better spirits these days.

She asks to go out now by sitting at the back door mat, when I spot her I quickly give her access to the yard, still on her leash.

Big shout out for home store and more btw, loads of dog products at about a third of the likes of maxi zoo.

I still have the submissive peeing to deal with, but I'm slowly but surely countering that one, and am nearly there.

Once again thanks to each and every one of you.

The string household.

tk123

Well done! I forgot to suggest a bell by the door - we had a problem were not everyone in the house was as observant of the poor pup waiting by the back step so I hung a bell by the door frame and touched her nose to it every time I opened the door. She learned really quickly how to ring it herself to get out!

Whispered

Well done! Sometimes, they can take steps back in training, especially with house training, so if she does have an accident don't fret, just continue as you're going. It sounds like you're doing great.

FurBabyMomma

Hi String, just read some of your thread and I'm honestly not meaning to be glib but I bet now you are sooo glad you didn't get your pup at Xmas and have to deal with the toileting issues then - you should tell this story to every person you meet considering the Xmas puppy route!!!

Well done for your persistence and glad it's paying off. +1 for the bell hanging off the back door; my furries will ring it when they need to go outside so I can hear it even when I can't see them.

Banjo String

Guys just updating the thread to say, after a few more accidents, I relented and bought a crate.


Best. Decision. Ever.

She loves it, actually comes out of it reluctantly when morning time comes.

Haven't had an accident since.

Bought brand new from petstop, best €40 spent on her yet.

FurBabyMomma

Well done, I'm so delighted to hear it. Crate training is such a great way to toilet train. My crate is still in the sitting room and the dogs love to wander on and out for naps now they're adults.

Raminahobbin

Banjo String wrote: »

Guys just updating the thread to say, after a few more accidents, I relented and bought a crate.


Best. Decision. Ever.

She loves it, actually comes out of it reluctantly when morning time comes.

Haven't had an accident since.

Bought brand new from petstop, best €40 spent on her yet.

It's gas isn't it?? We never crate trained our dog, but bought her a crate at a car boot sale when she was 10. She absolutely LOVES it. Like, instantly. We opened it up, she got in, and completely claimed it as her space.

Any future dog I get, it'll be introduced from day one

Banjo String

FurBabyMomma wrote: »

Well done, I'm so delighted to hear it. Crate training is such a great way to toilet train. My crate is still in the sitting room and the dogs love to wander on and out for naps now they're adults.

Yeah, she took to it instantly.

I never forced her to get in, fed her her puppy nuts inside the crate on the first day, let her wonder in and out finding treats placed inside as she went.

Closed the door over at brief intervals throughout the first day, and only closing it for good at night time, after she had pottied out the back.

The first few nights, I set my alarm for 4 am, (so she had been in there for 5 hours) took her out back (very reluctantly on her part may I add), waited on her peeing, then back in to the crate, and I went back to bed.

She was then let out again for brekkie and pee time around 7/7.30 when the rest of the gang gets up.

Delighted with her progress, she's happy too.

FurBabyMomma

Aww I'm so glaf for you, nice to hear happy puppy happy owner stories. Working in rescue I see a lot of dogs dumped for less so it cheers me up to see someone persevering with a bit of common sense and patience - these issues can be overcome if more people didn't throw in the towel at the first hurdle!