USA - end of an era

sin_city

The US economy is in bits. Russia has pushed America back on Syria despite its efforts to invade Syria. Is this the start of the end?

Incredible propaganda going on at the moment. The USSR started showing cracks when the invaded Afghanistan and throughout the 80s but did not end til 1991.

Does anyone else think that America is starting to collapse or does anyone else feel that America is still strong?

What could happen? A large scale war? Civil uprising? Or just a collapse with the rise of a new power?

Am I babbling? If you think so, please convince me how.

Jonny7

The US has no intention of invading Syria, and for the pair of them it's just politics. It's their job to disagree, literally. While the issue has cooled relations, they are both still functioning well as economic partners and so on.

The US has weathered the financial crisis better than a lot of countries (cough) the administration is relatively.. modeerrrately popular, there'll be another election in 2016.. life will go on.

Sensationalism and partisan politics often paint an image of impending doom. So nope, no uprisings or civil unrest for the foreseeable future.

clairefontaine

Jonny7 wrote: »

The US has no intention of invading Syria, and for the pair of them it's just politics. It's their job to disagree, literally. While the issue has cooled relations, they are both still functioning well as economic partners and so on.

The US has weathered the financial crisis better than a lot of countries (cough) the administration is relatively.. modeerrrately popular, there'll be another election in 2016.. life will go on.

Sensationalism and partisan politics often paint an image of impending doom. So nope, no uprisings or civil unrest for the foreseeable future.

Obama is a noob. Thankfully Putin is running things now.

However one could argue, Obama is either a fool to trust Putin and Assad or complicit.

Amerika

It will be a slog, that’s for sure. We’ll just have to wait for another in the mold of Reagan to come along and take the reigns to undo all the damage caused by this administration and that of the next administration which will likely and unfortunately also be from the Democratic party. Sadly no one resembles Reagan right now in politics. But it will happen... It’s got to happen... for all our sakes!

Mjollnir

Amerika wrote: »

It will be a slog, that’s for sure. We’ll just have to wait for another in the mold of Reagan to come along and take the reigns to undo all the damage caused by this administration and that of the next administration which will likely and unfortunately also be from the Democratic party. Sadly no one resembles Reagan right now in politics. But it will happen... It’s got to happen... for all our sakes!

LOL! Such an active imagination.

Another Reagan would be the death of this country, given that idiot's record.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, Sport.

clairefontaine

Amerika wrote: »

It will be a slog, that’s for sure. We’ll just have to wait for another in the mold of Reagan to come along and take the reigns to undo all the damage caused by this administration and that of the next administration which will likely and unfortunately also be from the Democratic party. Sadly no one resembles Reagan right now in politics. But it will happen... It’s got to happen... for all our sakes!

Hilary is all they have. She hasn't a hope in hell of winning.

hfallada

How is the US economy in bits? Its unemployment is lower than a majority of European countries. American stocks have been rallying the last few months, as there is massive sell offs in BRIC countries as people are investing in America again. A majority of the biggest companies in the world are still American. Name a single Chinese or Indianian brand in your house, you wouldnt find one.

America is starting to manufacturer goods again as gas is a third of the price of Asia and coal is cheap, therefore making electricity cheap. The American car industry is the best it has been in 20 years. Although some places like Detroit are failing. Places like Texas, NY and North Dakota are doing really well.

China will never be a super power. If any country is failing, its China. Its growth is continuing to decline rapidly. People are starting to get sick of its pollution, corruption and lack of well paid jobs. Its supposed to be the next super power, but the EU and America are slowly starting a trade war with it.

Fox_In_Socks

Amerika wrote: »

It will be a slog, that’s for sure. We’ll just have to wait for another in the mold of Reagan to come along and take the reigns to undo all the damage caused by this administration and that of the next administration which will likely and unfortunately also be from the Democratic party. Sadly no one resembles Reagan right now in politics. But it will happen... It’s got to happen... for all our sakes!

Well, Hollywood is full of rich actors, so it'll happen eventually.

sin_city

hfallada wrote: »

How is the US economy in bits? Its unemployment is lower than a majority of European countries.

Their rate goes does when people give up looking for work. This is the main reason for the rate going down. Also, they are mostly part time jobs being created as Obamacare mean if you work more than 30 hours a week that your employer pays your healthcare. Lots of people working part time now. Lowers the rate but does not tell the true picture.

hfallada wrote: »

American stocks have been rallying the last few months, as there is massive sell offs in BRIC countries as people are investing in America again. A majority of the biggest companies in the world are still American. Name a single Chinese or Indianian brand in your house, you wouldn't find one.

Have you ever heard of Quantitative Easing?

hfallada wrote: »

America is starting to manufacturer goods again as gas is a third of the price of Asia and coal is cheap, therefore making electricity cheap. The American car industry is the best it has been in 20 years. Although some places like Detroit are failing. Places like Texas, NY and North Dakota are doing really well.

I don't have the stats but from memory I believe most of the new jobs are low level service sector jobs. Please correct me if I am wrong. Detroit is not failing. The city went bankrupt.

hfallada wrote: »

China will never be a super power. If any country is failing, its China. Its growth is continuing to decline rapidly.

Their rate is still way higher than the US. Projections are that they will be the largest economy in less about ten years.

hfallada wrote: »

People are starting to get sick of its pollution, corruption and lack of well paid jobs.

You speak to the Chinese a lot? This wouldn't be an opinion by any chance?

hfallada wrote: »

Its supposed to be the next super power, but the EU and America are slowly starting a trade war with it.

The US would lose this in my opinion. China could send back all the treasuries it owns, which is over $1 trillion. The FED is currently buying 91% of long term treasures http://www.zerohedge.com/news/under-twist-fed-has-purchased-91-all-gross-issuance-long-dated-us-treasurys

The US economy could not deal with all the dollars coming home. More dollars are outside the US than inside the US.

America exports inflation. China currently exports goods. I think you should look into your views more.

If I have said anything that is incorrect, please correct me

Amerika

clairefontaine wrote: »

Hilary is all they have. She hasn't a hope in hell of winning.

She‘s already the democrats and media’s chosen one to become POTUS. We’re all just biding our time, waiting for the coronation.

clairefontaine

Amerika wrote: »

She‘s already the democrats and media’s chosen one to become POTUS. We’re all just biding our time, waiting for the coronation.

The people are copping on that the media is just one big infomercial for the Obama admin.

Hilary is both ill and she is female. American voters perceive both as weakness and they don't like weakness in a leader.

ScumLord

sin_city wrote: »

The US economy is in bits. Russia has pushed America back on Syria despite its efforts to invade Syria. Is this the start of the end?

No, the start of the end happened when America sent all it's jobs overseas.

When you look at America during the 50s they made great big projects, people had plenty of job opportunities, they were far and away the best country in the world.

They still have the best military and as long as they can hold onto that they will have power for a long time to come, but no ones looking up to the Americans anymore.

Amerika

clairefontaine wrote: »

Hilary is both ill and she is female. American voters perceive both as weakness and they don't like weakness in a leader.

Ill... that’s not a nice thing to say just because she’s a democrat . Seriously though, it will be her age that will be the biggest area of contention IMO. I don’t believe race or sex has the stigmatism it had in the past. And a lot of republicans think our women have more balls then our men. And in regards to weakness, it didn’t stop the current prez from being reelected. Joe Biden’s age will also be a concern. If Hillary decides not to run for whatever reason (although I doubt her ego will allow her to deny a glorious moment in history) the media will then get behind the most progressive primary (D) candidate who can fool the public into thinking they are centrists. And the media will be behind Christie in the GOP primary, but will crucify him in the general election just because he has an (R) behind his name. My opinion, but I think the US is screwed until at least 2020.

TheBrewMeister

God save us if Hillary gets elected. The problem with American politics is the simple fact that American swallow any pill the media feeds them.

All one has to do is look at Hillary's politics to realize she's as corrupt as any of them. Not to mention she's a chikenhawk...

cheesehead

Roll again Sin City:

The US holds a tremendous Demography edge over just about any other first world nation (higher birth/fertility rates) and supplements this with high immigration (12% of Americans are immigrants, compared to approximately 17% of Canadians and 24% of Australians - depends on the source used) The US does hold a massive volume advantage of immigrants (40 million vs 7 million Canadian/4 million Australian/6 million UK - granted, InTheTrees, 31% of US immigrants are from Mexico!)

Combine this demography edge with superior geographic resources:
Energy: Minimum 100 year supply of coal/natural gas. Significant wind/solar resources.
Farm - Perhaps most productive agricultural land in the globe
River system - For transportation. Mississippi is a very cheap shipping option for getting grains to ports for export. More important in past than today. Navigable river systems is a big advantage for moving goods thru the interior of the country.
Cheap infrastructure - Could build road/rail system throughout nation without having to build thru a lot of expensive mountains. Granted coast have mountains but the middle of the country was cheap to build (brazil struggles with this)
Access to both oceans with plenty of ports

sin_city

cheesehead wrote: »

Roll again Sin City:

The US holds a tremendous Demography edge over just about any other first world nation (higher birth/fertility rates) and supplements this with high immigration (12% of Americans are immigrants, compared to approximately 17% of Canadians and 24% of Australians - depends on the source used) The US does hold a massive volume advantage of immigrants (40 million vs 7 million Canadian/4 million Australian/6 million UK - granted, InTheTrees, 31% of US immigrants are from Mexico!)

Combine this demography edge with superior geographic resources:
Energy: Minimum 100 year supply of coal/natural gas. Significant wind/solar resources.
Farm - Perhaps most productive agricultural land in the globe
River system - For transportation. Mississippi is a very cheap shipping option for getting grains to ports for export. More important in past than today. Navigable river systems is a big advantage for moving goods thru the interior of the country.
Cheap infrastructure - Could build road/rail system throughout nation without having to build thru a lot of expensive mountains. Granted coast have mountains but the middle of the country was cheap to build (brazil struggles with this)
Access to both oceans with plenty of ports

Yes, that's great. You forgot to mention the national debt of $17 trillion. Gonna rise the debt ceiling again this year.

If the unfunded liabilities are included the total is well over $100 trillion.

I believe the GDP of the US is around $16 trillion.

Anyway, in your eyes, perhaps you think this is all good. Things are improving? I just thought that I had not seen the US pushed back on the Syria issue like the Russians have done in a long time. Maybe since the time of the USSR.

I am not doubting the US's potential in the future. I am just asking if you think they will remain a superpower and have the ability to invade as they have done since WW2

karma_

ScumLord wrote: »

They still have the best military and as long as they can hold onto that they will have power for a long time to come, but no ones looking up to the Americans anymore.

Over reliance on the military led to the fall of Rome.

FISMA

sin_city wrote: »

Does anyone else think that America is starting to collapse or does anyone else feel that America is still strong?

It is almost as if America is undergoing a "fundamental change."

cheesehead

Against my better judgement, I'll play.

Your initial post: "Is this the start of the end?" (Assuming you mean the end of the American Era)

Your reply to my initial post: "I'm not doubting the US' potential in the future"

I'm not sure what to make of this line of reasoning. You were able to deduce "in my eyes", that I felt high national debt was a good thing (although no where in my initial post did high national debt or even any remotely related topic come into play).

Will the US remain a superpower? Yeah

sin_city

cheesehead wrote: »

Against my better judgement, I'll play.

Your initial post: "Is this the start of the end?" (Assuming you mean the end of the American Era)

Your reply to my initial post: "I'm not doubting the US' potential in the future"

I'm not sure what to make of this line of reasoning. You were able to deduce "in my eyes", that I felt high national debt was a good thing (although no where in my initial post did high national debt or even any remotely related topic come into play).

Will the US remain a superpower? Yeah

Cool, got your opinion. Different to that of myself and Harvard history professor Niall Ferguson, Noam Chomsky to name but a few :P

The USSR collapsed and lost it's superpower status however Russia still has some influence and a developing economy. I think this may happen to the US.

The national debt.....ah, forget that. Not important.....I mean when did finances ever have an affect on an empires future propects

CS Hasuki

US dollar is toast. USA will collapse and will never regain it's former glory unless it gets back to it's constitution. It has been a scourge of the world over the last 40 years.
Eisenhower warned about it and now you have the results.

InTheTrees

CS Hasuki wrote: »

It has been a scourge of the world over the last 40 years.

What? The US has been a scourge since the mid seventies?

So after the Vietnam war ended they became a scourge according to you? I agree Disco was an abomination but what else happened in the mid-70's to precipitate their wrath so?

CS Hasuki

InTheTrees wrote: »

What? The US has been a scourge since the mid seventies?

So after the Vietnam war ended they became a scourge according to you? I agree Disco was an abomination but what else happened in the mid-70's to precipitate their wrath so?

There is plenty in in the time frame I mentioned, cambodia, Iraq wars. But yeah go back further to the 50s and 60s for cuba and vietnam.

clairefontaine

Obama is having a Hegelian moment.

InTheTrees

CS Hasuki wrote: »

There is plenty in in the time frame I mentioned, cambodia, Iraq wars. But yeah go back further to the 50s and 60s for cuba and vietnam.

But you didnt answer the question.

What was it about Jimmy Carter that made him the scourge of the world?

CS Hasuki

InTheTrees wrote: »

But you didnt answer the question.

What was it about Jimmy Carter that made him the scourge of the world?

When did you ask about Jimmy Carter previously? When did I mention Jimmy Carter?

cheesehead

How can the country that invented Magic 8-Ball be considered a scourge?

Is the United States the scourge of the world?: My sources say no

Will the USA collapse, never to regain its former glory?: Don't count on it

Will Donegal bring Sam back home next year?: It is decidedly so

InTheTrees

CS Hasuki wrote: »

When did you ask about Jimmy Carter previously? When did I mention Jimmy Carter?

You said 40 years ago. Mid seventies. Jimmy Carter was president.

MonaPizza

sin_city wrote: »

The US economy is in bits. Russia has pushed America back on Syria despite its efforts to invade Syria. Is this the start of the end?

Incredible propaganda going on at the moment. The USSR started showing cracks when the invaded Afghanistan and throughout the 80s but did not end til 1991.

Does anyone else think that America is starting to collapse or does anyone else feel that America is still strong?

What could happen? A large scale war? Civil uprising? Or just a collapse with the rise of a new power?

Am I babbling? If you think so, please convince me how.

America is finished and it doesn't matter if a Republican, Democrat, retard or dildo takes the reins.
The place is falling to pieces and has been since the late 70s / early 80s. The fact that America has a load of weapons that can blow people to bits doesn't add up to a hill of beans. That's all America has and still can't win a war, and hasn't been able to do so in 70 years. And that's a fact. The place is festooned with "college" educated 20 somethings who have less of an education than Czech, or Korean or Singaporean 14 year-olds. 90% of Americans believe in miracles and angels and crap like that. 1 in 4 are functionally illiterate.
Ask yourself a very simple question...if you had a skill other than picking lettuce OR, at the higher end of the spectrum, science research, would you emigrate to the US?
You can have a better life pretty much anywhere except the US...well within the OECD developed countries.

I would love to know what future the US can provide its young and its old that is the best over all other places.

The country is going out of business and nobody is even trying to halt the rot except to deny it.

MonaPizza

hfallada wrote: »

How is the US economy in bits? Its unemployment is lower than a majority of European countries. American stocks have been rallying the last few months, as there is massive sell offs in BRIC countries as people are investing in America again. A majority of the biggest companies in the world are still American. Name a single Chinese or Indianian brand in your house, you wouldnt find one.

America is starting to manufacturer goods again as gas is a third of the price of Asia and coal is cheap, therefore making electricity cheap. The American car industry is the best it has been in 20 years. Although some places like Detroit are failing. Places like Texas, NY and North Dakota are doing really well.

China will never be a super power. If any country is failing, its China. Its growth is continuing to decline rapidly. People are starting to get sick of its pollution, corruption and lack of well paid jobs. Its supposed to be the next super power, but the EU and America are slowly starting a trade war with it.

Such arrogance.
You do realise that in the last 20 centuries, China was the world's largest economy for 18 of them?
An anomaly gave 1 to the Brits and another to the US. China will never be a superpower? Really?
Name a single Chinese product in your house? How about every single gadget you touch? You do realise that Cisco, the backbone of the internet, now considers themselves as a Chinese company and not an American one.
Germany was flattened in 1945 and an entire generation of her men were dead yet somehow they are now back on top of the global economy. The US has never been bombed to ashes yet now is a crumbling wreck. 8 years after Katrina parts of New Orleans still look like Hiroshima.
America hasn't got 6 inches of high-speed rail. 60,000 bridges are structurally unsafe. Bits of metal routinely fall off tunnels onto the traffic below. And you call this an advanced society?

:pac:

InTheTrees

MonaPizza wrote: »

Ask yourself a very simple question...if you had a skill other than picking lettuce OR, at the higher end of the spectrum, science research, would you emigrate to the US?

While I do sympathize with a lot of your sentiments they're obviously heavily negatively biased.

So I'm a foreigner in the US. What other countries wold be good for me to emigrate to instead? I'm in the computer industry. 3D?

Englands an overcrowded sh*thole. France is a dead end if you have any ambition. Germany? well 'nuff said there. Where else? the far east? Japan? Its like england with japanese people and partly radio active. SO where else? Australia? Thats a possibility... New zealand? a little blip somewhere out in the pacific? Id rather Hawaii..

SO where else?

InTheTrees

MonaPizza wrote: »

I would love to know what future the US can provide its young and its old that is the best over all other places.

(You seem very angry.)

I dont think the usa has to provide a life "that is the best over all other places". For instance you can be happy and have a fine qualty of life in Ireland without it being "the best over all other places". (?)

There's a a lot more to life than accumulating money and stuff and living in a country that is a superpower. SO there are many places in the USA that can provide an excellent quality of life. Without having to provide electronics factories where people can assemble cellphones.

Despite the fact that they may not be a superpower in twenty years.

MonaPizza

hfallada wrote: »

How is the US economy in bits? Its unemployment is lower than a majority of European countries. American stocks have been rallying the last few months, as there is massive sell offs in BRIC countries as people are investing in America again. A majority of the biggest companies in the world are still American. Name a single Chinese or Indianian brand in your house, you wouldnt find one.

America is starting to manufacturer goods again as gas is a third of the price of Asia and coal is cheap, therefore making electricity cheap. The American car industry is the best it has been in 20 years. Although some places like Detroit are failing. Places like Texas, NY and North Dakota are doing really well.

China will never be a super power. If any country is failing, its China. Its growth is continuing to decline rapidly. People are starting to get sick of its pollution, corruption and lack of well paid jobs. Its supposed to be the next super power, but the EU and America are slowly starting a trade war with it.

:pac:

You know a country is in trouble when they re-classify McDonalds and Burger King jobs as "manufacturing".

'What do you do for a living?'

'I'm in "manufacturing". I "manufacture" tacos'

:pac:

"Oh, and I'm on food stamps too, despite my "manufacturing" job.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-601336.html

Now if the Chinese classified the making of a bowl of rice, or the Russians as the baking of some blinni on the side of the road or the Indians as pouring a bowl of daal as "manufacturing" you would howl with laughter.

Yet in America, throwing some ice-cubes into a styrofoam beaker, pushing a button and filling it with some sugar water is classified as just that. You're a manufacturer!

Made it MOM! Top of the world. :pac:

InTheTrees

MonaPizza wrote: »

You know a country is in trouble when they re-classify McDonalds and Burger King jobs as "manufacturing".

Who is "they"?

You seem to have it in for all of them together.

:cool:

Esel

MonaPizza wrote: »

Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

FYP

Imo, as our own Bertie once famously said - "It's all smoke and daggers."

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

MadYaker

InTheTrees wrote: »

While I do sympathize with a lot of your sentiments they're obviously heavily negatively biased.

So I'm a foreigner in the US. What other countries wold be good for me to emigrate to instead? I'm in the computer industry. 3D?

Englands an overcrowded sh*thole. France is a dead end if you have any ambition. Germany? well 'nuff said there. Where else? the far east? Japan? Its like england with japanese people and partly radio active. SO where else? Australia? Thats a possibility... New zealand? a little blip somewhere out in the pacific? Id rather Hawaii..

SO where else?

So many sweeping generalisations, you obviously haven't traveled much.

Edit: And then you post this hahaha the irony is overwhelming.

InTheTrees wrote: »

Who is "they"?

You seem to have it in for all of them together.

Black Swan

MOD REMINDER:
A few personal barbs being tossed about. Please focus on the topic and not each other.

InTheTrees

MadYaker wrote: »

So many sweeping generalisations,

Maybe you missed monapizza's rant that I was trying to respond to with like kind.

They took a place that's larger than Europe, picked out a bunch of negatives and applied them to the whole country.

Its like saying Irish politics is in disarray because Silvio Berlosconi is corrupt. Or that you dont want to move to London because they're rioting in Athens.

SO its pretty difficult to respond to. The irony is that I sympathize, the place is in disarray. Its in trouble. And yes, the years of dominance are probably over.

But calling San Fransisco a sh*thole because Detroit is bankrupt is just nonsense.

clairefontaine

So this weekend we are celebrating the great Italian Columbus discovery of America. Thank you Spain for paying for it.

If it weren't for the US, unless you were a member of the parasitic nobility classes, you could be a serf or a pirate. That was it. America changed it all.

Tipsy McSwagger

The end of an era was when Bush was illegally made president by 5 republican judges, instead of Florida going to a recount in which Gore would have won. 8 years of Bush and the republicans undid all the great work done by Clinton & Gore.

clairefontaine

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

The end of an era was when Bush was illegally made president by 5 republican judges, instead of Florida going to a recount in which Gore would have won. 8 years of Bush and the republicans undid all the great work done by Clinton & Gore.

The Supreme Court has been ****ing up since the 1960s.

They should remove lifetime appointments, no re elections. You serve ten years then go.

Tipsy McSwagger

clairefontaine wrote: »

The Supreme Court has been ****ing up since the 1960s.

They should remove lifetime appointments, no re elections. You serve ten years then go.

Just remove the republicans and America will be ok.

hfallada

MonaPizza wrote: »

Such arrogance.
You do realise that in the last 20 centuries, China was the world's largest economy for 18 of them?
An anomaly gave 1 to the Brits and another to the US. China will never be a superpower? Really?
Name a single Chinese product in your house? How about every single gadget you touch? You do realise that Cisco, the backbone of the internet, now considers themselves as a Chinese company and not an American one.
Germany was flattened in 1945 and an entire generation of her men were dead yet somehow they are now back on top of the global economy. The US has never been bombed to ashes yet now is a crumbling wreck. 8 years after Katrina parts of New Orleans still look like Hiroshima.
America hasn't got 6 inches of high-speed rail. 60,000 bridges are structurally unsafe. Bits of metal routinely fall off tunnels onto the traffic below. And you call this an advanced society?

:pac:

Chinese makes ****ty household products one else wants to make. Their air and water is heavily polluted from it. When the first iPhone was made in china it was 100% made by hand. With wages rising by 7/8 % a year, the newer iPhones are increasingly made by automation. Plus other cheap economies like Malaysia and Vietnam are getting investment that once was going to china.

Ireland has received more investment in the last 20 years from the us , than their investment in brazil, china, Russia and India. Yes the us infastructure is ageing. But you never hear of chinas issue as they are covered up

CS Hasuki

InTheTrees wrote: »

You said 40 years ago. Mid seventies. Jimmy Carter was president.

Why are you specifically bringing up Jimmy Carter. Ford was mid seventies anyway.

InTheTrees wrote: »

Who is "they"?

You seem to have it in for all of them together.

:cool:

I don't know about the mcdonalds thing, but US has changed,this year, the way they count GDP. It's a total sham really.

Just a taste
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-06/latest-contribution-us-gdp-promises-no-really

Some of the changes are actually just bonkers. You would have to be clinically insane to think it has any validity anymore. But when the guys who make the laws are the biggest fraudsters on the planet, what do you do.

sin_city

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Just remove the republicans and America will be ok.

That's the plan. For anyone wanting to control the parties, clearly control over one party is easier than two.

Can you tell me how the two parties differ on deficit spending and "Defence" or as it should be known"Offence"

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

It will be a slog, that’s for sure. We’ll just have to wait for another in the mold of Reagan to come along and take the reigns to undo all the damage caused by this administration and that of the next administration which will likely and unfortunately also be from the Democratic party. Sadly no one resembles Reagan right now in politics. But it will happen... It’s got to happen... for all our sakes!

Seriously? Do you actually remember the Reagan administration? Or have you swallowed the "Jesus Reagan" revisionism whole?

Reagan began the destruction of the middle class. If he came back to life and was president again he'd finish them off forever.

His foreign policy was probably the worst of any POTUS in the last century to boot.

He had great hair and was a great public speaker though. He was ultimate symbol of the right. Selfish.

Brian?

clairefontaine wrote: »

So this weekend we are celebrating the great Italian Columbus discovery of America. Thank you Spain for paying for it.

If it weren't for the US, unless you were a member of the parasitic nobility classes, you could be a serf or a pirate. That was it. America changed it all.

Wow. America did not change the feudal system in the rest of the world. The industrial revolution changed it.

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

Seriously? Do you actually remember the Reagan administration? Or have you swallowed the "Jesus Reagan" revisionism whole?

Reagan began the destruction of the middle class. If he came back to life and was president again he'd finish them off forever.

His foreign policy was probably the worst of any POTUS in the last century to boot.

He had great hair and was a great public speaker though. He was ultimate symbol of the right. Selfish.

Hmmm... you can spot a Carter apologist a mile away. I remember Reagan and voted for him... twice. It wasn't some Grimm tale that he was most instrumental in winning the cold war, ended an era of big government, refurbished and strengthened a military decimated by Carter, and filled the nation with a sense of purpose. Under him the inflation rate decreased to less than 4.4% and family income rose 12%. And in a 2007 Gallup poll, Reagan was rated by voters as the second greatest president of all time, behind Abraham Lincoln and ahead of John F. Kennedy.

sin_city

Amerika wrote: »

Hmmm... you can spot a Carter apologist a mile away. I remember Reagan and voted for him... twice. It wasn't some Grimm tale that he was most instrumental in winning the cold war, ended an era of big government, refurbished and strengthened a military decimated by Carter, and filled the nation with a sense of purpose. Under him the inflation rate decreased to less than 4.4% and family income rose 12%. And in a 2007 Gallup poll, Reagan was rated by voters as the second greatest president of all time, behind Abraham Lincoln and ahead of John F. Kennedy.

Reagan didnt have anything to do with the inflation. You can thank Paul Volcker for that.

InTheTrees

And lech walensa and the union movement in Poland started the process that brought the wall down.

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

And lech walensa and the union movement in Poland started the process that brought the wall down.

I guess sometimes it's best to take liberal revisionist history with a grain of salt... or better yet a shot of Jack Daniel’s.

The opening to Lech Walesa’s ‘A Tribute to Ronald Reagan’ : "When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty."