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ASTI VS TUI

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  • 12-09-2013 8:26pm
    #1
    wingnut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭


    Any thoughts on which is the better union? Our school is half and half. I've never had cause to use the union, but with trouble a brewing I want to have the best representation.

    Experiences good/bad/indifferent?


Comments

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    #2
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    The ASTI are more likely than the TUI to vote NO to Haddington Road.


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    #3
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    I'm only in the TUI because everyone else in the school is. I was in the ASTI when I started in the school because the majority of my last school were. I should have stuck with them.
    It doesn't make sense to be in a union that represents teachers and lecturers when you could be in one that represents teachers only.


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    #4
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    You also need to be sure that if you join a different union, that they have negotiation rights with your employer.


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    #5
    sitstill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    RealJohn wrote: »
    I'm only in the TUI because everyone else in the school is. I was in the ASTI when I started in the school because the majority of my last school were. I should have stuck with them.
    It doesn't make sense to be in a union that represents teachers and lecturers when you could be in one that represents teachers only.

    I agree with this. I'm in ASTI because when I started teaching it was in a voluntary secondary school. Now I'm in the community sector and most of my colleagues are in the TUI but I'd rather be in a union which is just for second level teachers.


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    #6
    TheBody
    Registered Users Posts: 5,624 ✭✭✭TheBody


    I stand to correction on this but I think ASTI are cheaper to join.


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    #7
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭memorystick


    Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but as the title says. I started working in a school. 2 years ago there were no TUI members in it- all ASTI. Now there are 12 TUI and over 40 ASTI. Its a community school. Thanks


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    #8
    Terri26
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭Terri26


    I would nearly always say ASTI over TUI as it's just for secondary school teachers and it's the union actually fighting. In most cases I'd recommend going with the majority union. Do TUI even have negotiating rights in your school?


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    #9
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭memorystick


    A lot of the TUI are former ASTI in the same school. Even the principal switched! I don't want to be a sheep which is what I see with the larger group. I think the TUI need 4 more so they can have a rep on the BOM.


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    #10
    Terri26
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭Terri26


    Surely joining the group that left when the ASTI were fighting is following the/ being sheep! Especially your comment that even the principal left.
    Investigate both unions if you're unsure. Personally I'm in a Union to protect our rights and ASTI actually lost money last year fighting for this right for our LPTs.


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    #11
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    memorystick wrote: »
    A lot of the TUI are former ASTI in the same school. Even the principal switched! I don't want to be a sheep which is what I see with the larger group. I think the TUI need 4 more so they can have a rep on the BOM.

    It would be funny if tui went out on strike and asti went into LR2. I wonder would they switch again :pac: . Now that would be taking the proverbial.


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    #12
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    The TUI eat their young . That's all I will say !


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    #13
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    The TUI eat their young . That's all I will say !

    All teachers eat their young going by media reports MrWhite:pac:

    Stay tuned, it might be like Lannigans Ball in the next few months.


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    #14
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭solerina


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    All teachers eat their young going by media reports MrWhite:pac:

    Stay tuned, it might be like Lannigans Ball in the next few months.

    So more revolving doors than evolving ones 😀


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    #15
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭memorystick


    The VP who is ASTI said that if he was starting off, he'd go TUI.


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    #16
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    It depends on which group the school management have negotiating rights with.


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    #17
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    memorystick wrote: »
    The VP who is ASTI said that if he was starting off, he'd go TUI.

    I think he might be speaking with his management hat on, as opposed to speaking from a teaching perspective. During the 'lockout' of nov 2016 a lot of principals and deputies were advised to leave the union (not too sure if it was the napd or jmb). Similarly they felt let down by the ASTI in 2001.
    (But then again a lot of teachers on all sides felt let down by the unions!).


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    #18
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭memorystick


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    I think he might be speaking with his management hat on, as opposed to speaking from a teaching perspective. During the 'lockout' of nov 2016 a lot of principals and deputies were advised to leave the union (not too sure if it was the napd or jmb). Similarly they felt let down by the ASTI in 2001.
    (But then again a lot of teachers on all sides felt let down by the unions!).

    Well the principal left the ASTI for the TUI. The staff is roughly 3/4 ASTI with 1/4 TUI. 2 years ago it was all ASTI.


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    #19
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    You could do a king Lear on it.
    Stand up at break and announce that whoever is nicer to you will be graced with your subscriptions.

    Seriously though, play it cool , union stuff in some schools can be a bone of contention like religion and politics. You could be holding the balance of power in the school.... no pressure!


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    #20
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭memorystick


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    You could do a king Lear on it.
    Stand up at break and announce that whoever is nicer to you will be graced with your subscriptions.

    Seriously though, play it cool , union stuff in some schools can be a bone of contention like religion and politics. You could be holding the balance of power in the school.... no pressure!

    The ASTI rep sermoned me about protection. I said that if I was ever accused of anything I'd be going to my solicitor. She agreed with me! Pretty good ambassador for her union.


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    #21
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    memorystick wrote: »
    The ASTI rep sermoned me about protection. I said that if I was ever accused of anything I'd be going to my solicitor. She agreed with me! Pretty good ambassador for her union.

    Yes there is that approach of going it alone. But would you find it easy and quick to find the right solicitor experienced in the education setting, especially if your career and reputation is at stake? Then there's the aspect of employment law and contracts, with CID's, RPT,Fixed Term, redeployments etc. would a regular employment solicitor be as experienced in those specialised cases pertaining to teachers. With a union behind you, it probably mightn't even come to that once you are advised exactly how to approach a tricky situation, about what to say and what not to say. Do you think management would approach your grievance the same if they knew you had union backing or knew you were on your own?

    Then there's the other staff grievances that often crop up(substitution, pay/allowance/pension/sick leave discrepancies, timetables, class sizes, advertising and interviewing for posts), from my experience a lot of the non-union staff wind up saying "ya we should get a group together and do x,y,z", then invariably approach an experienced union member in the school for some 'free' advice.

    So on a personal level it's like any personal insurance, if you never need it then you wonder if there's any point in having it. I think it gives strength in numbers at a school level so reduces the chances of needing it. If you need proof of this, speak to teachers (usually just out of training or the sub-circuit) in new schools about what they are expected to do.

    Now, on a national level, it's a different story, but then again the rest of the non-union staff usually have to play along with whatever is going on ( picket line, work to rule changes in pay and conditions due to negotiations etc)... so they may as well join the club.


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