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Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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    #4112
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Potential Underachiever wrote: »
    I doubt he's in the top 100 tbh.

    104th in total putts last season on Tour but there's that many stats out there I'm not sure exactly how he fares.

    In the 12 months up to last night, 181st in the world in putting according to discussion on Newstalk.

    You'd be lucky to be in contention for your Sunday medal with putting like that, never mind run of the mill pro event. In a major, you'd have to work hard to make the cut.


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    #4113
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    His putting at Abu Dhabi and Dubai was exceptionally good. Hopefully this weekend was just a blip.


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    #4114
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    HighLine wrote: »
    His putting at Abu Dhabi and Dubai was exceptionally good. Hopefully this weekend was just a blip.

    This came up in discussion on newstalk. The greens in Abu Dhabi and Dubai are exceptionally true and fast, so easier to put on. Many greens on tour are poa grass which becomes bumpy as the day goes on and are more difficult. McIllroy's stats show that he is ok on type of greens in Middle East, but very poor on the more common poa greens used on US/European courses.


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    #4115
    Dr Devious
    Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭Dr Devious


    You're just gonna have to come to terms with it folks, the boy simply can't putt.  The phrase ''you drive for show and putt for dough'' was coined for the likes of Rory. He'll get a wee spell with the putter every one in a while but it'll always come back to bite him on the arse.


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    #4116
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    HighLine wrote: »
    His putting at Abu Dhabi and Dubai was exceptionally good. Hopefully this weekend was just a blip.
    It wasn't though. Wasn't he mid 20s in the field putting each of those 2 weeks?


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    #4117
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭Russman


    fullstop wrote: »
    It wasn't though. Wasn't he mid 20s in the field putting each of those 2 weeks?

    I reckon if Rory had a season where he was mid 20s in putting, he'd have multiple wins, and probably pick up a couple of majors given his tee to green game would likely set him apart on the tougher courses.


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    #4118
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    fullstop wrote: »
    It wasn't though. Wasn't he mid 20s in the field putting each of those 2 weeks?

    Right you are. Perhaps not exceptional good against the field... just against his putting display last year.


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    #4119
    Whiplash85
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭Whiplash85


    Russman wrote: »
    I reckon if Rory had a season where he was mid 20s in putting, he'd have multiple wins, and probably pick up a couple of majors given his tee to green game would likely set him apart on the tougher courses.

    No he wouldnt. His wedge play is quite poor. Driving and mid irons are imperious at times though.


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    #4120
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    He's ranked number 10 at the moment and when you look at the list of players ahead of him, I think that is about right for where he should be. He is probably the best long iron stricker of the top ten, but that's about it.

    https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.186.html


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    #4121
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭Russman


    davo10 wrote: »
    He's ranked number 10 at the moment and when you look at the list of players ahead of him, I think that is about right for where he should be. He is probably the best long iron stricker of the top ten, but that's about it.

    https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.186.html

    Well, given the rankings are based on current-ish form, they're probably a good reflection as things stand. You couldn't really argue with them to be fair.

    But, nobody will ever convince me that any of those players above McIlroy at the moment will end up, in 15 years time, with a better career.

    Obviously he hasn't shown much form in the last year or two, but purely IMO, if all the top 10 were to play "well" (whatever that is), he's head and shoulders above them. I mean, seriously, Fowler, Koepka, Day & Rose ?? They're not even in the same conversation IMHO.


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    #4122
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Russman wrote: »
    Well, given the rankings are based on current-ish form, they're probably a good reflection as things stand. You couldn't really argue with them to be fair.

    But, nobody will ever convince me that any of those players above McIlroy at the moment will end up, in 15 years time, with a better career.

    Obviously he hasn't shown much form in the last year or two, but purely IMO, if all the top 10 were to play "well" (whatever that is), he's head and shoulders above them. I mean, seriously, Fowler, Koepka, Day & Rose ?? They're not even in the same conversation IMHO.

    Only time will tell of course, but McIllroy's last major was 4 years ago and right now I would bet on Johnson, Speith, Day and Rose at least passing his mark. Rahm is an unknown yet but certainly appears to have the potential to have a successful career at the top. Koepka/Fowler, I agree, they are very good players but hardly in the others league. There is a real possibility that unless his putting improves, McIllroy's career may have peaked.


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    #4123
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭Russman


    davo10 wrote: »
    Only time will tell of course, but McIllroy's last major was 4 years ago and right now I would bet on Johnson, Speith, Day and Rose at least passing his mark. Rahm is an unknown yet but certainly appears to have the potential to have a successful career at the top. Koepka/Fowler, I agree, they are very good players but hardly in the others league. There is a real possibility that unless his putting improves, McIllroy's career may have peaked.

    Totally agree his putting needs to improve, but honestly the 5 putt last week I would really put down (no pun !!) to carelessness/losing the head as opposed rank bad putting per se. He seemed to be on an upward curve with it in the middle east so hopefully Pebble was just a blip.

    Time will tell as you say, and I remember an article years ago by Laurence Donnegan (I think, not 100% sure) where he said McIlroy will finish up the same as Seve with 5 majors - he may be proven right, who knows.

    I still think if he plays another 50 majors when still competitive, and putts even half decently in some of them, he's bound to pick up another 3/4 at least.

    Speith might pick up a few more because he seems to have that thickness down the stretch, can't really see Rose getting another, and silly as it sounds right now, it wouldn't surprise me if DJ didn't get any more (it also wouldn't surprise me if he won two more this year alone !!).
    Rahm should be good for one or two but his temperament might get in the way.


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    #4124
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,622 ✭✭✭bren2001


    davo10 wrote: »
    Only time will tell of course, but McIllroy's last major was 4 years ago and right now I would bet on Johnson, Speith, Day and Rose at least passing his mark. Rahm is an unknown yet but certainly appears to have the potential to have a successful career at the top. Koepka/Fowler, I agree, they are very good players but hardly in the others league. There is a real possibility that unless his putting improves, McIllroy's career may have peaked.

    Spieth has a realistic chance of beating McIlroy on major wins. There is a case for DJ getting to 4, I think it is unlikely. However, an injury plagued Jason Day or a 37 year old Justin Rose have shown nothing to indicate they are on course for 3 more majors because thats what they need to at least catch McIlroy. Just to put into perspective how difficult it is to win 3 majors, only 29 players have done it.

    McIlroy is one of the best players in the world. He has the ability to win any week, he just needs a few things to come together for him. He can put himself into contention at any major if he putts well. His career may well have peaked but that does not mean he cannot win 1/2 or a few more majors. He's 28 and should be entering his best few years.


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    #4125
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Russman wrote: »
    Totally agree his putting needs to improve, but honestly the 5 putt last week I would really put down (no pun !!) to carelessness/losing the head as opposed rank bad putting per se. He seemed to be on an upward curve with it in the middle east so hopefully Pebble was just a blip.

    Time will tell as you say, and I remember an article years ago by Laurence Donnegan (I think, not 100% sure) where he said McIlroy will finish up the same as Seve with 5 majors - he may be proven right, who knows.

    I still think if he plays another 50 majors when still competitive, and putts even half decently in some of them, he's bound to pick up another 3/4 at least.

    Speith might pick up a few more because he seems to have that thickness down the stretch, can't really see Rose getting another, and silly as it sounds right now, it wouldn't surprise me if DJ didn't get any more (it also wouldn't surprise me if he won two more this year alone !!).
    Rahm should be good for one or two but his temperament might get in the way.

    You're right. If anything your post illustrates how open majors now are, that the days of predicting the winner will come from a handful of players, have gone. With more players at the level of competing for every major, the wand often separates the winner from the pack, and no one can claim that McIllroy is a maestro with the wand. I can't see him having 3 out of four good putting days, usually that's what you need to win. He can be good one day, but awful the next.


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    #4126
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    bren2001 wrote: »

    McIlroy is one of the best players in the world. He has the ability to win any week, he just needs a few things to come together for him. He can put himself into contention at any major if he putts well. His career may well have peaked but that does not mean he cannot win 1/2 or a few more majors. He's 28 and should be entering his best few years.

    He is one of the best players in the world, certainly in the top 10, but what makes you think that after 10 years on tour, his putting is going to improve now? It's not a lack of practice. Also, his chipping is not what you would expect from one of the best players in the world, stats don't lie.

    If all courses had five par 5's and 500 yard par 4s, he'd probably win regularly, but chipping/putting is what matters in most tournaments.


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    #4127
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭Russman


    davo10 wrote: »
    You're right. If anything your post illustrates how open majors now are, that the days of predicting the winner will come from a handful of players, have gone. With more players at the level of competing for every major, the wand often separates the winner from the pack, and no one can claim that McIllroy is a maestro with the wand. I can't see him having 3 out of four good putting days, usually that's what you need to win. He can be good one day, but awful the next.

    I think that's the key, he's streaky with the putter and probably always will be. If he has a good putting week he usually wins, unless its somewhere like a long, wet, Congressional where he "ball-struck" the field into submission.


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    #4128
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭Russman


    davo10 wrote: »
    He is one of the best players in the world, certainly in the top 10, but what makes you think that after 10 years on tour, his putting is going to improve now? It's not a lack of practice. Also, his chipping is not what you would expect from one of the best players in the world, stats don't lie.

    If all courses had five par 5's and 500 yard par 4s, he'd probably win regularly, but chipping/putting is what matters in most tournaments.

    I think there's some argument on that point nowadays though.
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/drive-for-show-and-putt-for-dough-not-true-says-mark-broadie
    I don't necessarily agree with it, but food for thought at the same time.

    Actually, I think Rory's chipping is up there with the very best, but hey, its all fun speculation !


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    #4129
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,622 ✭✭✭bren2001


    davo10 wrote: »
    He is one of the best players in the world, certainly in the top 10, but what makes you think that after 10 years on tour, his putting is going to improve now? It's not a lack of practice. Also, his chipping is not what you would expect from one of the best players in the world, stats don't lie.

    If all courses had five par 5's and 500 yard par 4s, he'd probably win regularly, but chipping/putting is what matters in most tournaments.

    His putting doesn't need to improve to win a major, he's a bad putter and always will be but he has good weeks. The big advantage himself and DJ etc have is what they give themselves more Birdie/Eagle opportunities than the average golfer or Spieth. If he has a good putting week for him, he has every chance of winning a major.

    What are his stats for chipping? I wouldnt have classified him as bad at chipping, I think he is good just not excellent. He was brilliant last year at Augusta. His GIR stats are pretty excellent. Chipping and putting is not what matters most in tournaments, that's a very simplistic viewpoint. Some courses are suited that way, others are not.

    Rory can win any week just like the other players around the Top 10 in the world. Its bizarre to rule him out and say players like Rose will be more competitive moving forward.


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    #4130
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    bren2001 wrote: »
    His putting doesn't need to improve to win a major, he's a bad putter and always will be but he has good weeks. The big advantage himself and DJ etc have is what they give themselves more Birdie/Eagle opportunities than the average golfer or Spieth. If he has a good putting week for him, he has every chance of winning a major.

    What are his stats for chipping? I wouldnt have classified him as bad at chipping, I think he is good just not excellent. He was brilliant last year at Augusta. His GIR stats are pretty excellent. Chipping and putting is not what matters most in tournaments, that's a very simplistic viewpoint. Some courses are suited that way, others are not.

    Rory can win any week just like the other players around the Top 10 in the world. Its bizarre to rule him out and say players like Rose will be more competitive moving forward.

    Now the first line of your post is bizarre, it goes against pretty much every expert/journo/pro I've heard talk/write about the topic. Pretty much unanimous consensus is that his putting has let him down when he has been in contention for many tournaments, not just majors.

    I certainly wouldn't rule him out, predictions are often bizarre because they are subjective and subject to variables. If the best always won, there would be no competition. Time will tell if the others catch up or whether McIllroy will have the career early predictions suggested he was destined to have. It will of course depend on a number of variables, not least of which is his fortunes on the greens of major tournaments.


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    #4131
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    ForeRight wrote: »
    He had a 7 yesterday on the 1st hole par 4.
    He had 120yds to the pin after his tee shot sitting in the fairway.

    I don't think I've seen a 28 handicapper do that.
    Disgraceful play

    lol

    really?

    edit: gah I see the date of the OP being 2013


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    #4132
    kiers47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Chipping and putting is not what matters most in tournaments, that's a very simplistic viewpoint. Some courses are suited that way, others are not.

    I would be pretty confident if you looked at strokes gained putting week in week out that the leaders of these stats are up there contending and quite often win.

    Player ability/skill at the top is so close that it more often than not comes down to whoever putts the best or gets the lucky breaks on the greens will win or at least contend.

    *Obviously like any of these stats it is not true 100% of the time. But on average with a big sample size i would guess that it is the single most important stat to highlighting what a winner did well to win.(Also you can include the players who contended)


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    #4133
    martinkop
    Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭martinkop


    Interesting reading here: http://datagolf.ca/which-is-more-important-putting-or-ball-striking/

    Looks good for Rory and probably explains his career to date.


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    #4134
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    martinkop wrote: »
    Interesting reading here: http://datagolf.ca/which-is-more-important-putting-or-ball-striking/

    Looks good for Rory and probably explains his career to date.
    Very interesting. I remember looking at Rory's stats on the PGA and the years he's done best, his average strokes gained putting has been between 0 and -1. I seem to recall -0.7 one year.


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    #4135
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Christ...... if I wanted the ball to go that far I'd have to buy it a bus ticket.......

    https://twitter.com/pgatour/status/964955135435710464


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    #4136
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Great read in the Sunday indo this morning. Kim she interview with Rory and Padraig.


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    #4137
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    Link to the above mentioned article - https://amp.independent.ie/sport/golf/i-always-have-to-have-the-last-word-rory-mcilroy-and-padraig-harrington-sit-down-with-paul-kimmage-36614694.html?__twitter_impression=true

    Great interview. One of my favourite lines from Padraig was when he said to Rory "I'm going to say this, and it's probably not what you want to hear, but four Majors for you is a failure."


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    #4138
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    HighLine wrote: »
    Link to the above mentioned article - https://amp.independent.ie/sport/golf/i-always-have-to-have-the-last-word-rory-mcilroy-and-padraig-harrington-sit-down-with-paul-kimmage-36614694.html?__twitter_impression=true

    Great interview. One of my favourite lines from Padraig was when he said to Rory "I'm going to say this, and it's probably not what you want to hear, but four Majors for you is a failure."


    And Rory completely agreed


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    #4139
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    ForeRight wrote: »
    And Rory completely agreed

    Yeah and I think most people would agree too.


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    #4140
    tommypepper
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭tommypepper


    Another tournament with tough conditions and Rory can't seem to compete. In danger of being left behind if he can't adapt to the new reality.


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    #4141
    Quintis
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Quintis


    tommypepper wrote: »
    Another tournament with tough conditions and Rory can't seem to compete. In danger of being left behind if he can't adapt to the new reality.

    No head for it atm, making crazy decisions, going for 18 in 2 on Thursday when he could of laid up and pitched and putted for a 4 or a par at worst when he instead came away with a dumb double after dunking it in the water, I appreciate he wants to go for everything but it was a extremely risky play with minimal reward if he pulled it off in very tough conditions, typifies his play atm, careless


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