Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

fullstop

Don't understand why he's persisting with trying to hit a fade when can't get them started on the right line at all.

downthemiddle

Blud wrote: »

He just doesn't appear to work hard enough st his game to me, doesn't seem to like the graft of practice. Repetitive practice isn't fun, and again this week he was at pains to talk about fun golf in the lead up to a major. His heart just doesn't seem in it, not professional enough in his approach.

Which is a pain really, it's ultimately unfulfilled potential with Rory which is just really sad. He could be so much more, but he's know in a position where yesterday his driving struggled to find fairways and he had nothing left in the locker.

I just hope he cops on before it's too late.

Perhaps you would like to describe his flawed practice schedule. How many hours a week does he practice? In what way does he need to cop on ?Tell us how he is unprofessional.

davo10

downthemiddle wrote: »

Perhaps you would like to describe his flawed practice schedule. How many hours a week does he practice? In what way does he need to cop on ?Tell us how he is unprofessional.

I think the inference being, with his talent, to play so badly, so often, is a mental problem rather than a lack of ability. We all know he is an outstanding golfer, but something is not right, so the hope is that with more/better practice and better course management/thought processes/professionalism during his round, that he would remove the glitches that cause him to have shockers. This is the joint second worst round of his professional career (2010 open, final day 2011 masters) the others coming early in his career when he was a young buck starting out.

Some players, such as Harrington, Woods in his prime and Stenson are known for their practice regime, hour after hour on the range. You never really hear that about McIllroy, but you are right, only he knows for sure.

I suppose the obvious question about his practice is, can he become a better putter with practice, or is that something that comes naturally and cannot be improved no matter how long you spend at it? Can you learn to read greens?

At 28 he is still young, but not a newbie, and no one, not even his most ardent fans can tell me he is improving with time. He won 4 majors, great, he was a fantastic player during that period 4-7 years ago, but he certainly is not as good now as he was then. That must be a concern for him, others game/form are improving, his has not.

GreeBo

diegocosta99 wrote: »

Had he won this week, depending on how others fared, he could have regained no. 1.

Had to make the cut first!

kiers47 wrote: »

Only 3 players have spent a longer time at number one than Rory since the modern rankings have been introduced in 1986.

I don't necessarily agree with the dominating statement by others.

While he is nowhere near dominating as you say. Rose has never even spent 1 week at number 1 so I'm not sure where your going with that. Rory has also won a lot more recently than Rose.

Rose is far more consistent than mcilroy ever had been

Blud

downthemiddle wrote: »

Perhaps you would like to describe his flawed practice schedule. How many hours a week does he practice? In what way does he need to cop on ?Tell us how he is unprofessional.

I'm inferring a flawed practice schedule from his focus on fun. He doesn't seem to enjoy the work-hard aspect of it, based on his own interviews. I'd go further to infer that he's probably had it too easy in his early career to like the graft now.

All inference, no facts. Same as those defending him. And I'm a huge Rory fan, hence my frustration.

How does he need to cop on? How is he unprofessional? Name another top 10 player who brings a mate as caddy and never consults him. It is a strange mindset.

Keano

GreeBo wrote: »

Had to make the cut first!

Rose is far more consistent than mcilroy ever had been

Last few years for sure but at the end of the day it’s all about wins for these guys and we all know whose ahead there.

kiers47

GreeBo wrote: »

Had to make the cut first!

Rose is far more consistent than mcilroy ever had been

Haha your trolling now. You should probably create a Justin Rose thread for that hot take. I don't even think Rory's harshest critics could agree with that. Maybe in the last 18months but we are talking careers here. Sher even you pointed out that dominating should be over a period of time and not a year or 2.

Just one stat as a marker of consistency Rose has missed about 20% of cuts on the pga tour in his career. Rory only about 13%.
We can talk about win percentage too if you want.

GreeBo

kiers47 wrote: »

Haha your trolling now. You should probably create a Justin Rose thread for that hot take. I don't even think Rory's harshest critics could agree with that. Maybe in the last 18months but we are talking careers here. Sher even you pointed out that dominating should be over a period of time and not a year or 2.

Just one stat as a marker of consistency Rose has missed about 20% of cuts on the pga tour in his career. Rory only about 13%.
We can talk about win percentage too if you want.

Rose missed his first 13 cuts or something when he turned pro, so those stats are skewed.

Btw a different opinion isn't trolling, no matter how many times you accuse me of it. Maybe just try make some points instead.

18 months is a long time.

GreeBo

Watched some footage of Rory winning been in 2011.
His putting was much not natural, quick look and bang.

He is very far from that now.

Btw those using the "most majors in last 8 years" argument are going to need an update soon...moving to 9 years I guess...

kiers47

GreeBo wrote: »

Rose missed his first 13 cuts or something when he turned pro, so those stats are skewed.

Btw a different opinion isn't trolling, no matter how many times you accuse me of it. Maybe just try make some points instead.

18 months is a long time.

That is literally the first time I've used the word trolling in relation to you in recent memory. I've also made 2 points in that post. If you want to take all of Rory's bad you can't just cherry pick when Rose has played good to compare him to. He has missed a lot more cuts in his career that is a fact. He also has won more majors and more tournaments and has a lower scoring average in about a 8 year shorter career so far.

If you think he is a better player than McIlroy then that is fine. But it is not born out by any credible facts. We will have to agree to disagree. I will stick with the facts and you can have your opinion.

fullstop

GreeBo wrote: »

Rose missed his first 13 cuts or something when he turned pro, so those stats are skewed.

Btw a different opinion isn't trolling, no matter how many times you accuse me of it. Maybe just try make some points instead.

18 months is a long time.

Rose wasn't playing on the PGA tour when he missed all those cuts at the start...European tour...and it was 21

kiers47

fullstop wrote: »

Rose wasn't playing on the PGA tour when he missed all those cuts at the start...European tour...and it was 21

Exactly why I said the pga tour in my post.

Greebo must be looking at the facts through Rose tinted glasses.

Apologies I couldn't help myself :pac:

slave1

It's disappointing but Rory simply does not have the complete game the last few years, we all know his driving is glorious but his irons are just brutal and he has a hot/cold putter, from where he has been with his second shots it's a crime to see him miss greens.
The US Opens is where you need ALL your game, if there's a weakness in any part it will be exposed and you will be caught.
Rory has now missed three cuts in a row there and I think that says a lot.

Joe Dog

If McIlroy had dogged it out on Friday he could have been right in this tournament, he doesn't seem to like to have to fight to win anymore almost as if things came too easy for him in the early part of his career and he didnt learn how to dog things out because he could simply destroy a golf course when he wanted to.His attitude is really really poor when compare him to Woods, Spieth who never seem to give up regardless of how badly they are playing.

FixdePitchmark

Joe Dog wrote: »

If McIlroy had dogged it out on Friday he could have been right in this tournament, he doesn't seem to like to have to fight to win anymore almost as if things came too easy for him in the early part of his career and he didnt learn how to dog things out because he could simply destroy a golf course when he wanted to.His attitude is really really poor when compare him to Woods, Spieth who never seem to give up regardless of how badly they are playing.

I would generally agree with this - and this happens a good bit with Rory

But is it not fair to say - he was so poor in this case - him giving up, made no difference. In fact this wasn't the best example - he was poor in all departments.

I guess you could argue that the practice of falling into the habit of giving up is a bad practice no matter what stage you are at.

tayto lover

Joe Dog wrote: »

If McIlroy had dogged it out on Friday he could have been right in this tournament, he doesn't seem to like to have to fight to win anymore almost as if things came too easy for him in the early part of his career and he didnt learn how to dog things out because he could simply destroy a golf course when he wanted to.His attitude is really really poor when compare him to Woods, Spieth who never seem to give up regardless of how badly they are playing.

Very true.
Sometimes I feel that players put in a tremendous effort to get to the top. When they have attained greatness the next goal should be to keep on top. This requires a much greater effort because every other player targets you when you're number one. Rory seems to be finding this very difficult and maybe beyond the effort he is prepared to put in. I fear for him.

davo10

tayto lover wrote: »

Very true.
Sometimes I feel that players put in a tremendous effort to get to the top. When they have attained greatness the next goal should be to keep on top. This requires a much greater effort because every other player targets you when you're number one. Rory seems to be finding this very difficult and maybe beyond the effort he is prepared to put in. I fear for him.

Yip, agree there, like many posters here, he can fall back on the 4 majors he won and the money he has made (didn't he do that in a tweet to another golfer who critisized him last year?) and say "well look at my career wins" but that was 4 years ago and he is not the player now that he was then, and still at 28 so he can't blame age nor injury.

I'm critical of McIllroy not because I don't think he is a good player, I'm critical because it looks to me like he doesn't try hard enough or grind it out when things don't go his way. I like sports people who know they are not the best but they try harder than those that have natural talent, that's why I like Harrington, Rose, Spieth, Zach and Dustin etc and why I think McIllroy will look back on his career with frustration and a sense of what could have been. He has already said this himself in interviews, that he is disappointed and frustrated that he hasn't won more.

slave1

Fair point but to say Dustin has no natural talent!!! The man’s swing is as natural as it gets, super athleticism on a guy born with that swing

davo10

slave1 wrote: »

Fair point but to say Dustin has no natural talent!!! The man’s swing is as natural as it gets, super athleticism on a guy born with that swing

They all have natural talent, but Dustin had to work hard on his game during his "sabbatical", he came back a better player both technically and mentally.

Incidentally, his swing is not natural in the conventional sense apparently, his hips lean away from the ball on inpact and he arches sideways slightly to connect. Looks great to me but McIllroy's supposedly swings more on the ideal plane.

spacecoyote

davo10 wrote: »

They all have natural talent, but Dustin had to work hard on his game during his "sabbatical", he came back a better player both technically and mentally.

Incidentally, his swing is not natural in the conventional sense apparently, his hips lean away from the ball on inpact and he arches sideways slightly to connect. Looks great to me but McIllroy's supposedly swings more on the ideal plane.

Is that part of Rory's problem though? Did he become too obsessed with "Swing Golf" rather than "Scoring Golf"?

What use is a perfect looking golf swing if its not delivering results on the course when it matters.

PARlance

davo10 wrote: »

They all have natural talent, but Dustin had to work hard on his game during his "sabbatical", he came back a better player both technically and mentally.

Incidentally, his swing is not natural in the conventional sense apparently, his hips lean away from the ball on inpact and he arches sideways slightly to connect. Looks great to me but McIllroy's supposedly swings more on the ideal plane.

What did he change technically during his sabbatical? I would agree he came back stronger mentally. I would put that down the sabbatical giving him a bit of a kick up the **** along with fatherhood probably quietening him down and seeing things from a different perspective.

For me, DJ is as natural as they come, a raw talent just like McIlroy. When both are on their game for 4 days, no other golfers get near them imo.

I think your point about the mechanics of his swing goes against your own point. Quite often, the most naturally gifted players (players who have their own swing and haven't been coached the "perfect swing") have some quirks in their swing.

davo10

PARlance wrote: »

What did he change technically during his sabbatical? I would agree he came back stronger mentally. I would put that down the sabbatical giving him a bit of a kick up the **** along with fatherhood probably quietening him down and seeing things from a different perspective.

For me, DJ is as natural as they come, a raw talent just like McIlroy. When both are on their game for 4 days, no other golfers get near them imo.

I think your point about the mechanics of his swing goes against your own point. Quite often, the most naturally gifted players (players who have their own swing and haven't been coached the "perfect swing") have some quirks in their swing.

His short game and consistency improved after his lay off, so whatever glitch there was in his short game, he made it better. Presumably he used the time to practice hard and improve his attitude/course management.

All top golfers have a natural talent, work/practice alone will not get you to the top. Swings can vary from the strangeb(Furyk) to the sublime (McIllroy when on form), my point being that McIllroys is more conventional and recognised by analysts and experts of the game like Nicklaus and Harmon as being one of the best. Harmon analysed Johnson's and said it worked for him but he doubted it would work for the majority as he leans away from the ball on impact and arches sidewards.

But hey, I'd take Furyks if it meant I could hit the ball like he could, no prizes for pretty swings.

Edit: if you Google Dustin Johnson swing change, you will see videos/articles about how the plane of his swing changed.

Russman

I can't understand where all the talk of "he gives up" and "doesn't try hard enough" comes from tbh. Just because he's not pumping his fist or shouting "come on" doesn't mean he isn't trying IMO. Some (arguably most) players play much better when calm and relaxed. Especially the ultra gifted ones, which I don't think anyone would argue that McIlroy isn't. People read way too much into a slight slump of the shoulders or some other body language sign.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

I can't understand where all the talk of "he gives up" and "doesn't try hard enough" comes from tbh. Just because he's not pumping his fist or shouting "come on" doesn't mean he isn't trying IMO. Some (arguably most) players play much better when calm and relaxed. Especially the ultra gifted ones, which I don't think anyone would argue that McIlroy isn't. People read way too much into a slight slump of the shoulders or some other body language sign.

What other way is there to read a slump of the shoulders?

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

What other way is there to read a slump of the shoulders?

Boredom, annoyance, whatever. My point is that, IMO it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't trying. I can maybe buy the not trying thing if its some sh1tbox tournament in the middle of nowhere, but not at a major, no way. I think people judge the likes of Rory and other sports people by the wrong standards. Grit and determination and all that malarkey are well and good for the plodders to max out their achievements, but for the select talented few at the very, very top of a sport its a different thing entirely IMO.

Joe Dog

Russman wrote: »

Boredom, annoyance, whatever. My point is that, IMO it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't trying. I can maybe buy the not trying thing if its some sh1tbox tournament in the middle of nowhere, but not at a major, no way. I think people judge the likes of Rory and other sports people by the wrong standards. Grit and determination and all that malarkey are well and good for the plodders to max out their achievements, but for the select talented few at the very, very top of a sport its a different thing entirely IMO.

The greats in most sports have had talent but also grit and determination, Tiger Woods won 10 years ago at the US open in an unbelievably gritty performance, Michael Jordan was renowned for his never say die attitude, look at Rafael Nadal he spent most of his career playing every point as if his life depended upon it.

All those I mentioned above obviously had bucket loads of talent but when they needed to drag themselves to gritty victories they could do it.

davo10

Russman wrote: »

Boredom, annoyance, whatever. My point is that, IMO it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't trying. I can maybe buy the not trying thing if its some sh1tbox tournament in the middle of nowhere, but not at a major, no way. I think people judge the likes of Rory and other sports people by the wrong standards. Grit and determination and all that malarkey are well and good for the plodders to max out their achievements, but for the select talented few at the very, very top of a sport its a different thing entirely IMO.

The hope is that he is not trying and loses focus, becuse that can be worked on, if he is trying and focused, then he just isn't as good as we all think he is. It's like a school kid who could do really well if he/she focused, compared to a kid who is focused and tries hard but never gets good results. We know McIllroy is very very good, and we all hope that with a little more focus, he might fulfill his own ambitions and expectations.

Dr Devious

McIllroy doesn’t have the drive to be an exceptional sportsman, he’s far mor likely to working out in the gym than spending inordinate amounts of time honing his wedge/iron/putter. He has a life outside golf, a kick around with his buddy’s etc, he’s never going to be self obsessed win at all costs, self centred ruthless bastard which a lot of the truly greats were.

valoren

I think it might be a case of over familiarity as in the 24 hour, 7 days a week coverage that Golf get's these days.
In addition to that there is now a statistic for almost every facet of the game that can be shared at the click of a button.

I remember when McIlroy won his first major and the hype was unreal. He'll win 10! 15! 20 majors!. He was a Tiger beater for sure.

Someone, I can't recall who, tempered the hype stating that he would only win 5 Majors in his career and that would be sufficient to cement his status as an incredible golfer and talent. The point was that it would sufficient as another European, ultra talented, super star called Seve only won 5.

The luxury Seve had over Rory is that while he would be playing army golf around the world, no one was partial to it or witness to it or interested that he'd shot 80 in whatever tournament. None of it was televised. None of the stats were pored over. You'd be lucky to see the Open and at best some of the Masters back in the day.

We'd have all labelled Seve, a major winner, as a has been, a waster of his talents had we seen all the gory details. It's a consequence of the way Golf is now that all players are subject to over analysis.

GreeBo

valoren wrote: »

I think it might be a case of over familiarity as in the 24 hour, 7 days a week coverage that Golf get's these days.
In addition to that there is now a statistic for almost every facet of the game that can be shared at the click of a button.

I remember when McIlroy won his first major and the hype was unreal. He'll win 10! 15! 20 majors!. He was a Tiger beater for sure.

Someone, I can't recall who, tempered the hype stating that he would only win 5 Majors in his career and that would be sufficient to cement his status as an incredible golfer and talent. The point was that it would sufficient as another European, ultra talented, super star called Seve only won 5.

The luxury Seve had over Rory is that while he would be playing army golf around the world, no one was partial to it or witness to it or interested that he'd shot 80 in whatever tournament. None of it was televised. None of the stats were pored over. You'd be lucky to see the Open and at best some of the Masters back in the day.

We'd have all labelled Seve, a major winner, as a has been, a waster of his talents had we seen all the gory details. It's a consequence of the way Golf is now that all players are subject to over analysis.

Not that I fully disagree, but if it was just down to coverage wouldn't we be labelling them all the same way?