Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

prawnsambo

GreeBo wrote: »

I assume you also can't define "World Class"?

Any fool who can use Google could defne it. :rolleyes:

Someone or something world-class is one of the best that there are of that type in the world

davo10

prawnsambo wrote: »

Any fool who can use Google could defne it. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately this thread is getting increasingly bizarre when a poster refers to "google to define it"

It's pretty clear that "world class" is subjective, one of the best could be top 5, top 10, top 50? is it now, or every player who has been in that group in the last year, 5 years, 10 years, ever?

Only a fool would claim that McIllroy is a world class putter, or competitor, but that doesn't mean he isn't a world class golfer, anyone who reaches number 1 has to be. But if you count up all the players who have been in the top 10 and are still on tour, that's a lot of "world class" players out there. McIllroy is one of many.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

I assume you also can't define "World Class"?

Under any sensible definition McIlroy is a world class golfer.

Yes there are currently better players in form.

He is ranked 8th in the OWGR at present.

I suppose you could come up with a form of definition at present of "World Class" to take Rory out of the "World Class" definition.

But it would be a purely academic and mean spirited exercise, to come up with a definition of world class that excludes Rory or the golfer with the most majors in the last 10 years (Rory).

Golf in particular has a longer term view on form and classification of golfers.


What do you define as World Class in golf GreeBo ?

Also who are they ?

prawnsambo

davo10 wrote: »

Unfortunately this thread is getting increasingly bizarre when a poster refers to "google to define it"

It's pretty clear that "world class" is subjective, one of the best could be top 5, top 10, top 50? is it now, or every player who has been in that group in the last year, 5 years, 10 years, ever?

Only a fool would claim that McIllroy is a world class putter, or competitor, but that doesn't mean he isn't a world class golfer, anyone who reaches number 1 has to be. But if you count up all the players who have been in the top 10 and are still on tour, that's a lot of "world class" players out there. McIllroy is one of many.

Just pointing out that it's hardly difficult to come up with a definiton. Whether you decide that it's the current top 20 or 10 or all the players who've reached number 1, it's not the great mystery that Greebo seems to think it is.

What is difficult, is coming up wth a reasonable definition that excludes McIlroy.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

I assume you are just acting the mick posting this sort of nonsense.

I assume you also can't define "World Class"?

I don't need to. The record speaks for itself.

Russman

There's also an argument to be made that anyone on one of the major tours is a world class golfer, relative to the golfing population. They're in the top, what, 0.0001% of players ?

Of course Rory is a world class golfer (and competitor) by any measure, especially if we consider golf to be getting the ball into the hole in the fewest shots possible. Just look at his stroke averages, tournament finishes, wins, any metric at all. To suggest otherwise is nonsense imho. Nobody wins what he has won without being a good competitor, personally I don't read a whole lot into the guff that's often spoken about not trying, slumping the shoulders, not able to grind bla, bla, pure bo11ox talk. Of course he is able to grind, pros are grinding almost every day, they rarely have their best stuff more than one day in a tournament. If you're not able to grind on tour, you'll be selling Mars bars pretty soon.

Totally agree he's not a world class putter, nobody could argue he is, at best he's streaky. 100 putts for the week at the API, and something like 96 (ish) for the first 3 rounds alone at the Irish, would suggest hot & cold.
Even if he became an average putter he'd win a lot more.

GreeBo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Just pointing out that it's hardly difficult to come up with a definiton. Whether you decide that it's the current top 20 or 10 or all the players who've reached number 1, it's not the great mystery that Greebo seems to think it is.

What is difficult, is coming up wth a reasonable definition that excludes McIlroy.

Anyone can come up with "a" definition, I was asking for "the" definition from the person who used the label. for McIlroy.

There is a huge difference between anyone who ever reached number 1 and the current top 10. Its also got nothing to do with the 4 majors that was also raised as a metric.

Hence my question, "what is world class?"

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Under any sensible definition McIlroy is a world class golfer.

Yes there are currently better players in form.

He is ranked 8th in the OWGR at present.

I suppose you could come up with a form of definition at present of "World Class" to take Rory out of the "World Class" definition.

But it would be a purely academic and mean spirited exercise, to come up with a definition of world class that excludes Rory or the golfer with the most majors in the last 10 years (Rory).

Golf in particular has a longer term view on form and classification of golfers.


What do you define as World Class in golf GreeBo ?

Also who are they ?

Firstly I never said he wasn't, I said that if he is, there are hundreds of golfers who are also world class.
I was never trying to exclude him, despite what some fanbois might want you to believe.

I personally would consider someone with a top level all around game to be "more" world class than McIlroy. For example Rose or DJ are (again, for me) much better players than McIlroy.

Sure you can throw out the old "more natural talent" and "on his day", but if you are truly world class you don't need to be on your day, IMO.
You also don't *regularly* throw in over par rounds when your competitors are shooting 5 & 6 under.

Secondly I'm not sure "form" belongs in a conversation about "World Class"?

Finally, and I've said it before, this argument of "Most Majors in the last 10 years" is getting a little old. Was Harrington the best player in the world when he had his 3 majors?

davo10 wrote: »

Unfortunately this thread is getting increasingly bizarre when a poster refers to "google to define it"

It's pretty clear that "world class" is subjective, one of the best could be top 5, top 10, top 50? is it now, or every player who has been in that group in the last year, 5 years, 10 years, ever?

Only a fool would claim that McIllroy is a world class putter, or competitor, but that doesn't mean he isn't a world class golfer, anyone who reaches number 1 has to be. But if you count up all the players who have been in the top 10 and are still on tour, that's a lot of "world class" players out there. McIllroy is one of many.

Bingo.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

I don't need to. The record speaks for itself.

Huh?

What has the record got to do with what "world class" means?
Is his record the definition of world class now? That would seem kinda silly tbh,

DONTMATTER

4 majors = world class. That was easy.

GreeBo

DONTMATTER wrote: »

4 majors = world class. That was easy.

Fine, but does World Class = 4 Majors?

DONTMATTER

GreeBo wrote: »

Fine, but does World Class = 4 Majors?

Discussions over. Rory is world class. I'm glad I cleared it up for you.

CalamariFritti

I'm not a fan of Rory McIlroy, but I find it a bit ridiculous to discuss whether he is a world class golfer or not.

First of all there is no precise definition or what a world class player actually is. Its not like its an actual title that is being awarded. But by all reasonable assumptions someone who has won 4 majors, 2 WGCs and a tour championship, 23 titles in total, and has arguably the best swing in the world most likely is. :pac:

There always have been top golfers around who were sh1t at putting. Some of the best ball strikers where sh1t putters. I believe Hogan was an advocate of making putts only count as half a shot. Reason was he was s superb ball striker but not such a superb putter.

GreeBo

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I'm not a fan of Rory McIlroy, but I find it a bit ridiculous to discuss whether he is a world class golfer or not.

First of all there is no precise definition or what a world class player actually is. Its not like its an actual title that is being awarded. But by all reasonable assumptions someone who has won 4 majors, 2 WGCs and a tour championship, 23 titles in total, and has arguably the best swing in the world most likely is. :pac:

There always have been top golfers around who were sh1t at putting. Some of the best ball strikers where sh1t putters. I believe Hogan was an advocate of making putts only count as half a shot. Reason was he was s superb ball striker but not such a superb putter.

Just in case its not clear...only 1 poster has said he is not World Class and that was Risteard81 back here

All I asked was what does World Class mean since I dont believe that Rory is head and shoulders above the rest of them as some on here would imply.

charlieIRL

Jeasuz give it a break will you ? Do you have to argue every point ?

CalamariFritti

Oh ye wasnt directed at anyone in particular and certainly not at you. Just couldnt believe this is actually being discussed.
And I agree with you he is not head and shoulders above the rest of them as it takes more than a great swing to do that.

But to be fair he is no longer 21 and golf is no longer the only thing that matters in his life now. And not everyone is like - say - Ronaldo mentally. If I had 50 million in the bank and a young wife and everything, not sure I'd still practice 'til my hands bleed.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

I don't need to. The record speaks for itself.

Huh?

What has the record got to do with what "world class" means?
Is his record the definition of world class now? That would seem kinda silly tbh,

If you find that silly, I respectfully suggest that you seek help.

GreeBo

charlieIRL wrote: »

Jeasuz give it a break will you ? Do you have to argue every point ?

My mistake, thought I was on a discussion forum.

Nice ad hominem btw.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

If you find that silly, I respectfully suggest that you seek help.

So you are saying there have only ever been 20 World Class golfers...ever?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_men%27s_major_championships_winning_golfers

Someone should let the 18 guys in the current OWGR top 20 that they are not in fact world class. Im sure DJ @ #1 will be surprised for one.

Keano

Definition of world-class in English:

world-class
ADJECTIVE

(of a person, thing, or activity) of or among the best in the world.

Anyhow I’m here to talk about golf. Rory is only arriving to the Open on the Monday. Taking a more relaxed approach next week.

kiers47

Seen as I somehow ended up in the English comprehension forum and people are looking for definitions of phrases/words.
Can someone tell me the definition of pedantic. I've been seeing it everywhere and can't figure it out.

CalamariFritti

I'd say Rory is at a stage in his career now where he's got everything. And he has spent his childhood and some on getting there. Its probably natural he's taking a step back, if not consciously, but it seems he is anyway. On a very high level mind you. He's still top class doing this.
But he is who he is and he has what he has and its kinda normal to him, taking it a bit for granted (not saying that in a negative way).

But I'lll predict another stage in his career. A few years on. He'll be mid late thirties, maybe forty. Maybe has kid or two and things have settled a bit. And he will be bit more mature and he'll realise the talent he has. Not that he doesn't do that now, but a different kind of realisation. In the context of getting older and a career not going to last forever. and maybe in terms of golfing legacy. And he may have a second wind with that realisation in the back of his mind. A wiser part of his career if you like. And if he does it could be dynamite.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

If you find that silly, I respectfully suggest that you seek help.

So you are saying there have only ever been 20 World Class golfers...ever?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_men%27s_major_championships_winning_golfers

Someone should let the 18 guys in the current OWGR top 20 that they are not in fact world class. Im sure DJ @ #1 will be surprised for one.

I'm saying nothing of the sort and I can only marvel at the thought process that would help you reach that conclusion.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

I'm saying nothing of the sort and I can only marvel at the thought process that would help you reach that conclusion.

Feel free to explain what you are saying so!
My "thought process" is simply following what you posted, which I have below:


I asked you to define "World Class" and you said

"I don't need to. The record speaks for itself"

I then asked you what his record has to do with the definition of world class and said if Rorys record is now the definition of World Class then thats silly.

You then said I need help if I find that silly, i.e. you believe McIlroys record to be the definition of World Class.

I pointed out that that this then means that 18 of the current top 20 in the world are, by *your* definition, not world class, which is clearly nonsense.

If you meant something else by "I dont need to. The record speaks for itself" then please clarify.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

I'm saying nothing of the sort and I can only marvel at the thought process that would help you reach that conclusion.

Feel free to explain what you are saying so!
My "thought process" is simply following what you posted, which I have below:


I asked you to define "World Class" and you said

"I don't need to. The record speaks for itself"

I then asked you what his record has to do with the definition of world class and said if Rorys record is now the definition of World Class then thats silly.

You then said I need help if I find that silly, i.e. you believe McIlroys record to be the definition of World Class.

I pointed out that that this then means that 18 of the current top 20 in the world are, by *your* definition, not world class, which is clearly nonsense.

If you meant something else by "I dont need to. The record speaks for itself" then please clarify.

Good grief.

World class means among the best in the world. Best in the world is measured by how well they play compared to others. How well they play is measured by their scores relative to the people they compete with.
How they stack up against the people they compete with is expressed through a world ranking system.

You could argue how far down the list the term "world class" is merited but of the millions of people who play golf, I'd say the top few hundred deserve the description.

McIlroy is currently 8th.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

I'd say the top few hundred deserve the description.

LOL

So you are saying EXACTLY what I said in my first post on the topic days ago!

If McIlroy is one, so are hundreds of others.

Not quite sure what the hissy fit was about tbh.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

I'd say the top few hundred deserve the description.

LOL

So you are saying EXACTLY what I said in my first post on the topic days ago!

If McIlroy is one, so are hundreds of others.

Not quite sure what the hissy fit was about tbh.

Hissy fit no, but mild if baffled amusement at questions like what does his record have to do with it and the magnificently weird one asking if there have only ever been 20 world class golfers?

HighLine

Rory playing golf at RCD.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlNp8YEg66a/

Rikand

ballooned it

FixdePitchmark

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I'd say Rory is at a stage in his career now where he's got everything. And he has spent his childhood and some on getting there. Its probably natural he's taking a step back, if not consciously, but it seems he is anyway. On a very high level mind you. He's still top class doing this.
But he is who he is and he has what he has and its kinda normal to him, taking it a bit for granted (not saying that in a negative way).

But I'lll predict another stage in his career. A few years on. He'll be mid late thirties, maybe forty. Maybe has kid or two and things have settled a bit. And he will be bit more mature and he'll realise the talent he has. Not that he doesn't do that now, but a different kind of realisation. In the context of getting older and a career not going to last forever. and maybe in terms of golfing legacy. And he may have a second wind with that realisation in the back of his mind. A wiser part of his career if you like. And if he does it could be dynamite.

I'd go along with this.

The element that has surprised me - is how early and young he got sort of bored of it all. Even about 5 years ago - he was only 24 :eek:

you do see it in other sports - but it is rare that it is actually the world number 1 and even rarer when so young.

It must be a killer for guys looking at Rory not really caring that much and they have grinded out long and hard careers with injuries and not won as much or just the same as Rorys efforts over a few years. Likes of Ells looking at Rory walking off.

We don't know what motivates him at this stage.

we don't know what his family life is like,
We don't know the full extent of this health scare (heart).

I have an admiration for the guy having a sort of more philosophical view about life - and that there is more to it than golf.

He has been in the public eye and famous for a long time. It doesn't look like he was ever that comfortable with it.

After all that - he is so talented, with even a few months focus on something he would be winning again. The one fear is as we all know - putting is a dark art. It can and has, just taken everything away for some golfers.

FixdePitchmark

HighLine wrote: »

Rory playing golf at RCD.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlNp8YEg66a/

Hacker - hate to be behind him.